The Roaring Knight Vs Sans - Deltarune Vs Undertale (18-14-1) (GRACE ENDED)

[Omegabronic]

Sans ≠ Gerson. Unlike that bum he's the real goat with actual good dodging feats.
Jokes aside, this is more a feat for Gerson than a weakness of Lightnear slashes. Sans has never dealt with slashes that just spawn on you before.

I don't think the Knight ever used such attacks in character before

All the time, they kind of just do normal swings on bullets patterns, so not sure if it is even much of a factor here to begin with

 

[Omegabronic]

I don't think Sans can do anything against the Knight's red wind and sword barriers
Can Sans even reach the Knight if it flies very high in the air?

Teleportion and Time Stop

He can get closer, or make the Knights get closer, very easily

Edit:I vote Sans FRA BTW

 

[LittleGuy99]

Teleportion and Time Stop

He can get closer, or make the Knights get closer, very easily

Edit:I vote Sans FRA BTW

Counted

 

[LittleGuy99]

I still think the Knight wins Mid/High Diff
Sans has demonstrated at least 21 dodges, and the Knight's attacks would tire him out quickly in just a few turns
Furthermore, it must be taken into account that the Knight can manipulate his perception, possibly give him a migraine, push him with a very strong wind, use telekinesis to move his body

I can see how the two of them would teleport away every chance they got, and Sans has it harder with the homing attacks and the Star Tractor attack
And that's without even mentioning what would happen if the Knight summoned the Titan

 

[Greatsage13th]

possibly give him a migraine.

How? Does it work on organless, biological-less people?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Sans FRA

 

[TheGatememer]

Isn't this match already on their profiles?

 

[koopa3144]

I don't think the Knight ever used such attacks in character before

They don't use it in their fight cause it'd be unfair gameplay-wise. But they do use it on Tenna right before the fight.

 

[LittleGuy99]

How? Does it work on organless, biological-less people?

It's strange, Asgore has shown that he can get sick, I feel like it can work
But even if not, it's not a problem, the rest I said is enough
The Roaring Knight FRA (I wanted to say it)

 

[Greatsage13th]

I can see how the two of them would teleport away every chance they got, and Sans has it harder with the homing attacks and the Star Tractor attack
And that's without even mentioning what would happen if the Knight summoned the Titan

Time stop exists. He can just put himself in a spot where it would not land on him regardless of their homing capabilities.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Time stop exists. He can just put himself in a spot where it would not land on him regardless of their homing capabilities.

Just like he did with Frisk's attacks?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Just like he did with Frisk's attacks?

That's because of game mechanics, which he has complete control over.

When all hell breaks lose, he can simply not attack at all and put both of them in an endless stalemate.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Didn't know that Kris asked Knight to stop the homewrecker.

I don't think the Knight ever used such attacks in character before

It did against Tenna. Not using it against Fun Gang can be explained away as gameplay mechanic. Susie too doesn't use it against us in chapter 1.

How? Does it work on organless, biological-less people?

UT monsters do have physical matter, just very small amount of it. And without accepted resistance to migraine, Sans would suffer from it.
Roaring Knight (high diff)

 

[LittleGuy99]

That's because of game mechanics, which he has complete control over.

When all hell breaks lose, he can simply not attack at all and put both of them in an endless stalemate.

If this were like a fight in UT/DR then the Knight would simply break the combat box and escape the endless stalemate
(Or just wait like Frisk)

 

[Greatsage13th]

If this were like a fight in UT/DR then the Knight would simply break the combat box and escape the endless stalemate
(Or just wait like Frisk)

He does not have the ability to break the fourth wall, even if he does, he is unable to deal with someone that has completely weaponised it.

 

[koopa3144]

He does not have the ability to break the fourth wall, even if he does, he is unable to deal with someone that has completely weaponised it.

• Breaking the Fourth Wall (Combat-Applicable: Can push the combat box and break it with its knife attacks, leaving the box in poor condition afterwards)

 

[LittleGuy99]

He does not have the ability to break the fourth wall, even if he does, he is unable to deal with someone that has completely weaponised it.

Are you talking about Sans?
If that's the case, you're right, Sans won't know what to do if the Knight destroys the battle box while he's using his attacks
But I think we're kind of getting off topic

 

[LittleGuy99]

I still think the Knight wins Mid/High Diff
Sans has demonstrated at least 21 dodges, and the Knight's attacks would tire him out quickly in just a few turns
Furthermore, it must be taken into account that the Knight can manipulate his perception, possibly give him a migraine, push him with a very strong wind, use telekinesis to move his body

I can see how the two of them would teleport away every chance they got, and Sans has it harder with the homing attacks and the Star Tractor attack
And that's without even mentioning what would happen if the Knight summoned the Titan

Summary: Red Wind>Sans LS + Teleportation + Sword attacks + Migraine-Make his head spin-Narrow Vision-Perception Manipulation + Homing Attacks + Range

I clearly see that the Knight has a better chance of winning, and in the worst-case scenario, it summons the Titan
Remember, here the Knight doesn't hold back like it did with Kris and their party

 

[Bruhtelho]

Sans FRA

 

[Naito-desu]

Sans fra

 

[LittleGuy99]

Sans FRA

Sans fra

Counted

I still think the Knight wins Mid/High Diff
Sans has demonstrated at least 21 dodges, and the Knight's attacks would tire him out quickly in just a few turns
Furthermore, it must be taken into account that the Knight can manipulate his perception, possibly give him a migraine, push him with a very strong wind, use telekinesis to move his body

I can see how the two of them would teleport away every chance they got, and Sans has it harder with the homing attacks and the Star Tractor attack
And that's without even mentioning what would happen if the Knight summoned the Titan

Summary: Red Wind>Sans LS + Teleportation + Sword attacks + Migraine-Make his head spin-Narrow Vision-Perception Manipulation + Homing Attacks + Range

I clearly see that the Knight has a better chance of winning, and in the worst-case scenario, it summons the Titan
Remember, here the Knight doesn't hold back like it did with Kris and their party

But do you have an opinion on this?

 

[Omegabronic]

Didn't know that Kris asked Knight to stop the homewrecker.

It did against Tenna. Not using it against Fun Gang can be explained away as gameplay mechanic. Susie too doesn't use it against us in chapter 1.

UT monsters do have physical matter, just very small amount of it. And without accepted resistance to migraine, Sans would suffer from it.
Roaring Knight (high diff)

Yeah... but they still are largely made of Magic, so like... no, specially when Sans, as a skeleton, doesn't have ANY of the organs or biological things necessary to have a migraine

 

[SnakesCity]

Yeah... but they still are largely made of Magic, so like... no, specially when Sans, as a skeleton, doesn't have ANY of the organs or biological things necessary to have a migraine

Kind of a bad argument when he...y'know...bleeds?

 

[Omegabronic]

Kind of a bad argument when he...y'know...bleeds?

Not really? That was comfirmed to be blood... as far as we know, it could be the Ketchup, it is the EXACT same color, down to the Hex color stuff

also... he IS a skeleton, there IS no brain, or blood vessels, plus he is made of Magic, straight up... so like, still wouldn't have any of the biological things needed for a migraine, or any biology hax for that matter

 

[LittleGuy99]

UT monsters do have physical matter, just very small amount of it. And without accepted resistance to migraine, Sans would suffer from it.
Roaring Knight (high diff)

.

 

[SnakesCity]

Not really? That was comfirmed to be blood... as far as we know, it could be the Ketchup, it is the EXACT same color, down to the Hex color stuff

also... he IS a skeleton, there IS no brain, or blood vessels, plus he is made of Magic, straight up... so like, still wouldn't have any of the biological things needed for a migraine, or any biology hax for that matter

Largely up to interpretation even more so if you take Deltarune stuff into account so i'll concede on the blood thing for the moment, but Asgore who is also mostly made of magic like all monsters became very sick upon ingesting buttercups (albeit not as sick as a human would've got), so clearly them being made of magic isn't the end all, be all.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Yeah... but they still are largely made of Magic, so like... no, specially when Sans, as a skeleton, doesn't have ANY of the organs or biological things necessary to have a migraine

Sans is not literally sceleton. He is a monster that resembles sceletons. He has physical matter, otherwise Frisk wouldn't be able to hit him. If you think it's good enough evidence(it's not) to assume that he doesn't have organs, go ahead and make CRT to grant him resistance to biological manipulation.
But as is currently stands, he doesn't have it, so he would suffer from migraine

 

[Qurbonboev]

Besides, he can teleport out of attacks or stop time and set his attacks while freezing the Knight and their own attacks.

Sans time stop is as real as his empathic manipulation. Did he ever use it in combat?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Breaking the Fourth Wall (Combat-Applicable: Can push the combat box and break it with its knife attacks, leaving the box in poor condition afterwards)

Ah... My bad. I did not notice that.

 

[Omegabronic]

.

... no? Having physical matter =/= being bilogical beings (Hence you know... INORGANIC PHYSIOLOGY in the Monster Physiology page)

that's not how this works... specially when, in nature of being a literal skeleton, he literally physically lacks what is needed to even have a migraine to begin with

Largely up to interpretation even more so if you take Deltarune stuff into account so i'll concede on the blood thing for the moment, but Asgore who is also mostly made of magic like all monsters became very sick upon ingesting buttercups (albeit not as sick as a human would've got), so clearly them being made of magic isn't the end all, be all.

Yeah... which is why him being a skeleton is the bigger role here, he literally has no organs, skin, blood vessels, etc, whatsoever... he quite literally CAN'T have a migraine... due to him not HAVING what would make one possible

Sans is not literally sceleton. He is a monster that resembles sceletons.

Which, again, makes him not have internal organs... or biological stuff

He has physical matter, otherwise Frisk wouldn't be able to hit him.

Physical Matter =/= Biological Matter... that literally means nothing

Plus... you assume Magic is incorporeal or something? Pretty sure we were never told in Undertale

If you think it's good enough evidence(it's not) to assume that he doesn't have organs, go ahead and make CRT to grant him resistance to biological manipulation.

Magic, Inorganic Physiology (Type 1) & Danmaku: Monsters' bodies, compared to human ones, do not have much physical matter because of them being made of magic to the same degree humans are made of water, being able to use their magic in various ways like making bullet patterns, which are showcased in most of their fights, with them also being able to control said magic.

The ability to be made of inorganic matter. Users of this ability are unaffected by many things which would be lethal to organic beings or even the undead.

• Resistance to Biological Manipulation: As users of this ability aren't organic beings, they lack all biological functions, and can therefore also not be manipulated in this manner.

Again... that is just common sense? It is covered by Inorganic Physiology already, he doesn't HAVE biological functions even remotely similar to a Human like Kris for you to even argue he can have a migraine

Also... he is a skeleton, we can quite literally see through him all the time and huh... no organs, like, at all

But as is currently stands, he doesn't have it, so he would suffer from migraine

He wouldn't, Inorganic Physiology quite literally covers this, plus... he's a skeleton like being, WHERE would he even be affected to feel a migraine?

 

[SnakesCity]

Also... he is a skeleton, we can quite literally see through him all the time and huh... no organs, like, at all

Uh, he wears a t-shirt under his jacket, we don't really see his body at all. Papyrus is a better argument for that since we see more of his actual body

 

[LittleGuy99]

Whatever the conclusion regarding the migraine may end, everything else the Knight can do is sufficient.

... no? Having physical matter =/= being bilogical beings (Hence you know... INORGANIC PHYSIOLOGY in the Monster Physiology page)

that's not how this works... specially when, in nature of being a literal skeleton, he literally physically lacks what is needed to even have a migraine to begin with


Yeah... which is why him being a skeleton is the bigger role here, he literally has no organs, skin, blood vessels, etc, whatsoever... he quite literally CAN'T have a migraine... due to him not HAVING what would make one possible


Which, again, makes him not have internal organs... or biological stuff


Physical Matter =/= Biological Matter... that literally means nothing

Plus... you assume Magic is incorporeal or something? Pretty sure we were never told in Undertale



The ability to be made of inorganic matter. Users of this ability are unaffected by many things which would be lethal to organic beings or even the undead.

• Resistance to Biological Manipulation: As users of this ability aren't organic beings, they lack all biological functions, and can therefore also not be manipulated in this manner.

Again... that is just common sense? It is covered by Inorganic Physiology already, he doesn't HAVE biological functions even remotely similar to a Human like Kris for you to even argue he can have a migraine

Also... he is a skeleton, we can quite literally see through him all the time and huh... no organs, like, at all

He wouldn't, Inorganic Physiology quite literally covers this, plus... he's a skeleton like being, WHERE would he even be affected to feel a migraine?

Anyway, those are Possible Uses
Sans has no resistance to poison and diseases. He doesn't even have self-sustenance

 

[SnakesCity]

Wait how did i forget the fact that both Sans and Papyrus sweat, throwing the whole "they're skeleton monsters so their bodies also (lack) function like actual skeletons" argument out the window.

 

[Omegabronic]

Whatever the conclusion regarding the migraine may end, everything else the Knight can do is sufficient.

Anyway, those are Possible Uses
Sans has no resistance to poison and diseases. He doesn't even have self-sustenance

Yeah... but you can't use Biology manip on something that ISN'T a biological being... that in of itself is self evident

 

[Qurbonboev]

He wouldn't, Inorganic Physiology quite literally covers this, plus... he's a skeleton like being, WHERE would he even be affected to feel a migraine?

1 In brain, where else? Moldsmal check says "Curvaceously attractive, but [with] no brains"(implying that other monsters have one). Undyne namedrops brains. But discussing this topic is useless, since we use current profiles, and with them Sans is immune to migraine.
2. Knight still has perception manipulation. Sans combat effectiveness would still suffer if his vision narrows, and if would feel world revolving around him

 

[Omegabronic]

1 In brain, where else?

What brain? Again, he is a skeleton... there is no brain, or organs, there

Moldsmal check says "Curvaceously attractive, but [with] no brains"(implying that other monsters have one). Undyne namedrops brains.

We are not talking about either of those, and even so, it wouldn't be a biological brain due to, you know, being made of MAGIC, aka... not biological matter for one to use Biology Manipulation on

But discussing this topic is useless, since we use current profiles, and with them Sans is immune to migraine.

Glad we agree on that

2. Knight still has perception manipulation. Sans combat effectiveness would still suffer if his vision narrows, and if would feel world revolving around him

That... isn't true? at least, it didn't seem to affect Kris or the Delta Warriors in any significant way, do we actually have any feats for the Perception manip that would indicate it actually debilitates in any significant way?

 

[LittleGuy99]

Sans is immune to migraine.

Do you mean NOT immune?

 

[LittleGuy99]

What brain? Again, he is a skeleton... there is no brain, or organs, there

He's not a normal skeleton, plus he can sweat

 

[SnakesCity]

Fair's fair, if it's on the profile it's on the profile, i just argued to try and clear up some misconceptions. Imo neither bio or perception manip are the big deal breakers here when the Knight can still ragdoll Sans around with their TK via red wind.

 

[Omegabronic]

He's not a normal skeleton, plus he can sweat

So? Still not made of Biological matter for the Biology manip to do anything