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I have a question. Why was Shibai updated to Low 2-C instead of 3-A? Is Naruto's cosmology Low 2-C?
 
Idk about that but I think his ascended key should straight up get "At least 4-B, likely far higher, Low 2-C with omnipotence". I really don't think it's reasonable to assume he might have gotten physically weaker, especially given we consider Hagoromos spiritual form as relative to his alive self
 
Meant Shibai was already a god with a mortal body, before he ascended to a higher dimension. So Omnipotence was always at low 2c.
 
Shibai is only rated that high with omnipotence because he’s on the same echelon of existence and ascendence with the gods who used omnipotence to create worlds. How good he was at it prior to his ascension won’t really change anything unless he replicated such feat.
 
Is it just me, or do we need more female Otsutsukis? You remember the pair on the monument that never got introduced? They better be a couple of baddies ong.
I was really hoping Sumiere had some kinda female ōtsutsuki influence on the whole “omnipotence resistance” thing. From the looks of things i don’t think we’ll be getting any new ōtsutsuki; I don’t even think we’ll be getting any further extrapolation on shibai lmao
 
I was really hoping Sumiere had some kinda female ōtsutsuki influence on the whole “omnipotence resistance” thing. From the looks of things i don’t think we’ll be getting any new ōtsutsuki; I don’t even think we’ll be getting any further extrapolation on shibai lmao
I will drop the franchise if that's true. Shinju and Kawaki being the endgame is the lamest possible direction it could take.
 
who do you think should be the final boss?
Kawaki is oke
Should be? I think Kawaki after a good Otsutsuki lore drop and a good Otsutsuki big bad or a good Otsutsuki war would be pretty neat. It just seems so wild to me that an entire race exists that could threaten the Earth and it is never resolved. Also that the series never left Earth in any meaningful way. We just got glorified fighting arenas.
 
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Shibai is only rated that high with omnipotence because he’s on the same echelon of existence and ascendence with the gods who used omnipotence to create worlds. How good he was at it prior to his ascension won’t really change anything unless he replicated such feat.
Really? Well, honestly, I don’t quite see it that way. Momoshiki’s statement might make it seem like that’s the case, but if we look closely, it’s clear that he already had full mastery over Omnipotence even before his ascension. And according to Amado himself, that ascension wasn’t a direct consequence of the power he gained from consuming all those divine fruits — it was a voluntary act, a choice made out of pure will.

In other words, Shibai didn’t ascend because his power forced him to; he chose to transcend simply because he could. From that perspective, his previous state already contained the full potential and control of true Omnipotence — the ascension merely elevated his mode of existence, not necessarily his level of power.

That’s why it makes perfect sense to say that his pre-ascension “key” should also scale to the absolute capacity of Omnipotence, not just after his ascension. After all, the power didn’t come from ascension — the ascension came from the power.

And I believe the same reasoning applies to the other Ōtsutsuki who, just like him, also achieved ascension.
 
but if we look closely, it’s clear that he already had full mastery over Omnipotence even before his ascension.
nowhere was it stated that Shibai had full mastery over the omnipotence pre ascension. Infact, it’s defined as an ultimate power that only an all knowing powerful god can use, and in that context, “create worlds”. We don’t know to what extent shibai could use omnipotence pre ascension, we just know he could since it’s implied that only an otsutsuki can use/control it.
 
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nowhere was it stated that Shibai had full mastery over the omnipotence pre ascension. Infact, it’s defined as an ultimate power that only an all knowing powerful god can use, and in that context, “create worlds”. We don’t know to what extent shibai could use omnipotence pre ascension, we just know he could since it’s implied that only an otsutsuki can use/control it.
Don’t get me wrong — I’m not saying it was literally stated. What I’m suggesting is that this idea is implied within Shibai’s own narrative.

The fact that Omnipotence is described as a power reserved only for omnipotent and omniscient gods doesn’t automatically refute the possibility that Shibai could have already mastered it before his ascension. On the contrary, according to Amado’s statement, Shibai’s ascension wasn’t a direct consequence of the power he gained from consuming the divine fruits — it was a voluntary act, a choice made out of sheer will.

In other words, Shibai didn’t ascend to become omnipotent; he ascended because he already was. His ascension wasn’t the cause of his power — it was the result of someone who had already reached such a transcendent state that rising to a higher plane of existence became a natural decision.

Thus, it makes perfect sense to claim that his pre-ascension state already contained the full potential of true Omnipotence — and that his ascension merely elevated his form of existence, not necessarily his level of power. After all, the power didn’t come from the ascension; the ascension came from the power.
 
If I were one Chakra fruit away from ascending and gaining full omnipotence, id "voluntarily" eat it too. Doesn't prove I had complete omnipotence before that. Also scans that say he voluntarily ascended instead of a direct result of eating Chakra fruit?

Also what's the connection between voluntary ascension and mastered omnipotence anyways. The logic doesn't really check out.
 
If I were one Chakra fruit away from ascending and gaining full omnipotence, id "voluntarily" eat it too. Doesn't prove I had complete omnipotence before that. Also scans that say he voluntarily ascended instead of a direct result of eating Chakra fruit?

Also what's the connection between voluntary ascension and mastered omnipotence anyways. The logic doesn't really check out.
I believe Amado’s description of Shibai’s power and ascension actually supports exactly what I’m arguing here. Why, exactly? Because if his ascension depended solely on the raw power he gained immediately from devouring so many Chakra Fruits, then the moment he consumed the last necessary Chakra Fruit to ascend, he would have ascended immediately as a direct consequence.

However, that’s not what happened. What actually happened is that, even after he had eaten all the Chakra Fruits required to ascend, he still remained in the world for a while — and only after that time did he voluntarily decide to ascend. This, in fact, corroborates what I’ve been saying.

The connection between “voluntary ascension” and “complete mastery of Omnipotence” is that an Ōtsutsuki God is known for their innate ability to easily control Omnipotence — after all, it’s a power reserved only for them. At the same time, within this context, these same Gods are also known for their ability to elevate themselves to a higher plane of existence after attaining divinity.

So, if a being can freely decide when to transcend, how could that same being not already have full mastery of Omnipotence? After all, the Boruto narrative implies that only deities are capable of something like this.
 
I believe Amado’s description of Shibai’s power and ascension actually supports exactly what I’m arguing here. Why, exactly? Because if his ascension depended solely on the raw power he gained immediately from devouring so many Chakra Fruits, then the moment he consumed the last necessary Chakra Fruit to ascend, he would have ascended immediately as a direct consequence.

However, that’s not what happened. What actually happened is that, even after he had eaten all the Chakra Fruits required to ascend, he still remained in the world for a while — and only after that time did he voluntarily decide to ascend. This, in fact, corroborates what I’ve been saying.
How do you know he remained in the world for a while? All we know is that, he ate fruits, left his body on earth, and ascended. How did you get "remained in the world for a while"? And even if he did, how do you know that the process of ascension is instantaneous? Maybe it takes a few minutes or hours. We don't really know.
The connection between “voluntary ascension” and “complete mastery of Omnipotence” is that an Ōtsutsuki God is known for their innate ability to easily control Omnipotence — after all, it’s a power reserved only for them. At the same time, within this context, these same Gods are also known for their ability to elevate themselves to a higher plane of existence after attaining divinity.

So, if a being can freely decide when to transcend, how could that same being not already have full mastery of Omnipotence? After all, the Boruto narrative implies that only deities are capable of something like this.
Because there is no established connection between the two? If an Otsutsuki has completed evolving and is holding back ascension, that doesn't mean he has complete control of Omnipotence on the level of a god. That is pure head canon. If he can decide to freely ascend, it is because he ate enough fruits. That really has nothing to do with Omnipotence at all.
 
How do you know he remained in the world for a while? All we know is that, he ate fruits, left his body on earth, and ascended. How did you get "remained in the world for a while"? And even if he did, how do you know that the process of ascension is instantaneous? Maybe it takes a few minutes or hours. We don't really know.
So, it's not quite like that. When I say "Remained in the world for a time," I'm talking about the time he stayed before ascending. Something that can literally have any duration — from seconds, minutes, hours, days...

The time he stayed doesn't really matter. What truly matters is that he stayed there "for a time" — and, as we know, he stayed because he wanted to — so much so that "some time later," he deliberately discarded his body and then ascended.

How do I know he remained in the world for a time? Well, isn't it said that after becoming a deity, Shibai became known for performing various "miracles"? That would only be possible if he actually spent "a time" in the world after achieving divinity.

"And even if he remained, how do you know the ascension process is instantaneous? Maybe it takes a few minutes or hours..."

I think I expressed myself poorly here. When I say "immediately," I don't literally mean an instantaneous period of time to ascend. In this case, I meant to refer to how he could remain in the world by his own choice before ascending — and only then would he ascend. Because if it were the other way around, he wouldn't have ascended voluntarily, but the level of power he reached would force him to — without letting him decide when to ascend to that plane.
Because there is no established connection between the two? If an Otsutsuki has completed evolving and is holding back ascension, that doesn't mean he has complete control of Omnipotence on the level of a god. That is pure head canon. If he can decide to freely ascend, it is because he ate enough fruits. That really has nothing to do with Omnipotence at all.
I see you didn't understand the parameter I used here. In that case, I'll use an analogy to make the analysis of my argument easier:

Here, the point is: If a) Only Gods are capable of freely controlling omnipotence; And b) Only those who have achieved Divinity and become "Gods" can or are capable of ascending to the higher plane of existence. Then c) Shibai achieved Divinity and can ascend to that level of existence. Therefore, Shibai is capable of using omnipotence — because he achieved Divinity.

In short, if Shibai is capable of ascending to the higher plane, then he is a God. And if he is a God, then he can easily use Omnipotence.
 
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So, it's not quite like that. When I say "Remained in the world for a time," I'm talking about the time he stayed before ascending. Something that can literally have any duration — from seconds, minutes, hours, days, etc.

The time he stayed doesn't really matter. What truly matters is that he stayed there "for a time" — and, as we know, he stayed because he wanted to — so much so that "some time later," he deliberately discarded his body and then ascended.

How do I know he remained in the world for a time? Well, isn't it said that after becoming a deity, Shibai became known for performing various "miracles"? That would only be possible if he actually spent "a time" in the world after achieving divinity.

"And even if he remained, how do you know the ascension process is instantaneous? Maybe it takes a few minutes or hours..."

I think I expressed myself poorly here. When I say "immediately," I don't literally mean an instantaneous period of time to ascend. In this case, I meant to refer to how he could remain in the world by his own choice before ascending — and only then would he ascend. Because if it were the other way around, he wouldn't have ascended voluntarily, but the level of power he reached would force him to — without letting him decide when to ascend to that plane.
Scan that says that he performed those miracles after he qualified for ascension and not before?
I see you didn't understand the parameter I used here. In that case, I'll use an analogy to make the analysis of my argument easier:

Here, the point is: If a) Only Gods are capable of freely controlling omnipotence; And b) Only those who have achieved Divinity and become "Gods" can or are capable of ascending to the higher plane of existence. Then c) Shibai achieved Divinity and can ascend to that level of existence. Therefore, Shibai is capable of using omnipotence — because he achieved Divinity.

In short, if Shibai is capable of ascending to the higher plane, then he is a God. And if he is a God, then he can easily use Omnipotence.
So by your own admission, Shibai was already an Otsutsuki God when he became able to ascend right? That's how you defined "divinity". That's what the second key is.

Also id really really appreciate if you started adding some scans.
 
Since no one's gonna say it............................

Shibai vs Soul King when????
 
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