Luffy vs The Hashira [0:0:0]

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

I get feats can be calced differently but sometimes the calcs gotta match the verse's scale regardless of accuracy. You could get KE having the feat at 7C and it be the most accurate but if it doesn't match the story's depiction then I wouldn't think it's reasonable to accept by itself.

how do you define a "verse's scale" here btw, and would that nullify an objectively accurate assessment regarding the quantification of a feat so much so we would disregard the more accurate quantification models for it?

 

[Arkansalter2]

Wheres the thread for the downgrades?

 

[Machmatej]

Yeah

(Quote by the strongest Lower Moon, and a panel of the weakest Upper Moon)

"They've buried mountains, they've even buried demon hunter pillars. Is their strength on a completely different level? I haven't reached the Upper Moons despite being given so much blood"

Other translations I've seen include "Do they have otherworldly powers?", "Why are they unreachable?" "How many years" and "How much blood do I need?"

"Those two are on a different dimension. If I jump into the match, I'd feel nothing but death on my skin. I can't move because I know I'd be nothing but a hindrance if I jump in to help"

"An Upper Moon's strength is nothing compared to Muzan's".

These 3 are the ones that immediately came to mind. There's other stuff about the Hashira, and stuff in the novels, but since manga is primary canon and it's Gyutaro's feat, I thought Kizuki statements would be more appropriate.

 

[Catbowtie]

From what I seen with Gyutaro's calc it tries just KE of one sickle slash

Yes, I've seen Xaro's calculation. I've heard that it's not really that good. I don't mind it being changed.

calcing it as hemispheric explosion

Epyriel's calculation. I don't remember the diameter he picked for the explosion though.

You could get KE having the feat at 7C and it be the most accurate but if it doesn't match the story's depiction then I wouldn't think it's reasonable to accept by itself.

Fair enough.

What are you referring to with them?

The hierarchy of the Kizuki

Does the hierarchical explain the difference in power in some meaningful way?

Personally I'm fine with statements saying a "weaker character couldn't even imagine the power a stronger one has" or "even if you trained your whole life you'd never reach their power" or "just don't even think of tryna be like them, they're in a different league". Stuff like this is fine for me to agree they reach higher tiers with the calc conveying it.

Seems like Mach is handling this so I won't do this myself, but I'm sure a skim over what the Twelve Kizuki are on the KNY wiki is good enough. Off the top of my head, I remember Kyogai saying that the Kizuki are pretty powerful.

 

[Catbowtie]

snip

I remember Shinobu saying that it would take 3 Pillars to kill a single Upper Moon.

 

[Machmatej]

I remember Shinobu saying that it would take 3 Pillars to kill a single Upper Moon.

True. There's also Tengen saying Daki is way too weak to be even close to an Upper Rank. I'm just too lazy to pull up every single panel

 

[Arkenis]

how do you define a "verse's scale" here btw, and would that nullify an objectively accurate assessment regarding the quantification of a feat so much so we would disregard the more accurate quantification models for it?

If you mean quantifications as in calcs then yeah I'd probably discard a calc if the story isn't supportive or contradicting it through general showing of feats. I don't think calcs really prove much besides math which isn't enough for me. Statements of power like the threat to a city, general area (mountain, landmass, islands), country, world, etc, even beating a whole military solidify the calc than the calc solidifies the scale to me.

(Quote by the strongest Lower Moon)

"They've buried mountains, they've even buried demon hunter pillars. Is their strength on a completely different level? I haven't reached the Upper Moons despite being given so much blood"

Other translations I've seen include "Do they have otherworldly powers?", "Why are they unreachable?" "How many years" and "How much blood do I need?"

The viz does this justice. "out of this world", Enmu being 8-C and thinking their out of this world implies a tier jump for me.

"Those two are on a different dimension. If I jump into the match, I'd feel nothing but death on my skin. I can't move because I know I'd be nothing but a hindrance if I jump in to help"

Yeah this is fine too.

"An Upper Moon's strength is nothing compared to Muzan's".

Vague.

While these statements solidify a dramatic jump, the issue still comes down to the actual feats. I'm fine with saying the Kizuki are 7C alongside a good calc, but you guys have barely a working 7C calc (now) and the Nakime calc is stabilization, something I wouldn't accept unless the verse makes it clear there's no hax involved.

 

[Machmatej]

While these statements solidify a dramatic jump, the issue still comes down to the actual feats. I'm fine with saying the Kizuki are 7C alongside a good calc, but you guys have barely a working 7C calc (now) and the Nakime calc is stabilization, something I wouldn't accept unless the verse makes it clear there's no hax involved.

That's another issue entirely. Your original nick pick was narrative support. I guess we'll address the calc issue when the thread comes, but there's a few calcs that are unevaluated rn

 

[Arkenis]

That's another issue entirely. Your original nick pick was narrative support. I guess we'll address the calc issue when the thread comes, but there's a few calcs that are unevaluated rn

It's both. The statements just help support 7C, they don't support 7B.

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

If you mean quantifications as in calcs then yeah I'd probably discard a calc if the story isn't supportive or contradicting it through general showing of feats.

So a verse's "scale" is the general showing of consistent feats?

that isn't exactly a basis considering the myriads of interpretations each feat can have?

This fails on so many levels unless you use the results provided by the calcs to determine which feats you will use and which you won't something that you apparently won't do because...all calcs do is prove "math"

I don't think calcs really prove much besides math which isn't enough for me.

...what even is 'math' here?

calcs are the best way to quantify everything we have, there is not a single other way better than calcs to scale a verse by quantifying its feats using proper models and hypotheses about the nature of said feats, idk what you're trying to even deny here?

Statements of power like the threat to a city, general area (mountain, landmass, islands), country, world, etc, even beating a whole military solidify the calc than the calc solidifies the scale to me.

Statements and narrative solidify an objective measurement of a feat yes, but statements on their own do nothing unless they're extremely explicit?

genuinely have no idea what you're trying to do, without math there’s no epistemic anchor for what a ‘feat’ even is, you’re mistaking narrative impression for quantifiable data points, calcs define the model that gives all other claims meaning, without them, “consistency” and “scale” are just vibes.
at the end it just seems like you're reinforcing a presupposition rather than trying to actually be accurate, this is genuinely an analysis model that fails at all steps?

edit: but regardless you didn't give any reasonable way to assess a verse's "scale", you're just saying we should remain consistent with its internal logic but each verse has so many interpretations and assessments depending on the analysis framework used-each bringing us a different result- for us to meaningfully determine a single "right" verse "scale", it's effectively just preformative appeal to accuracy meant to...once again, reinforce a presupposition using a faulty analysis model that cherry picks and ignores data to reach an already made conclusion rather than taking said data into consideration to maybe consider a new one?

...well, either ways, i will just stop here for now.

 

[Arkenis]

So a verse's "scale" is the general showing of consistent feats?

that isn't exactly a basis considering the myriads of interpretations each feat can have?

This fails on so many levels unless you use the results provided by the calcs to determine which feats you will use and which you won't something that you apparently won't do because...all calcs do is prove "math"

Myriad interpretations don't matter if they aren't consistent with the verse.

...what even is 'math' here?

calcs are the best way to quantify everything we have, there is not a single other way better than calcs to scale a verse by quantifying its feats using proper models and hypotheses about the nature of said feats, idk what you're trying to even deny here?

Calcs have math, numbers and formulas. Nothing's being denied, I'm saying calcs don't portray a verse by themselves, they require narrative backing like statements or general notions of power.

Statements and narrative solidify an objective measurement of a feat yes, but statements on their own do nothing unless they're extremely explicit?

Yeah exactly. Statements need to be reasonably explicit for me to judge the verse's scale in relation to the calcs.

genuinely have no idea what you're trying to do, without math there’s no epistemic anchor for what a ‘feat’ even is, you’re mistaking narrative impression for quantifiable data points, calcs define the model that gives all other claims meaning, without them, “consistency” and “scale” are just vibes.
at the end it just seems like you're reinforcing a presupposition rather than trying to actually be accurate, this is genuinely an analysis model that fails at all steps?

Not really, but I see why you'd think that. The statements are the foundation which the calcs are accepted upon for me. If there's no statements or contradictions at all then calcs are free to use of course.

edit: but regardless you didn't give any reasonable way to assess a verse's "scale", you're just saying we should remain consistent with its internal logic but each verse has so many interpretations and assessments depending on the analysis framework used-each bringing us a different result- for us to meaningfully determine a single "right" verse "scale", it's effectively just preformative appeal to accuracy meant to...once again, reinforce a presupposition using a faulty analysis model that cherry picks and ignores data to reach an already made conclusion rather than taking said data into consideration to maybe consider a new one?

I did give a reasonable way, its something vsbw and powerscaling function off, you just don't agree with it. And people can have all the interpretations they like, if they don't map onto the verse then they're irrelevant for the scale. What's the issue with me looking at the verse, comparing it to the calcs, then going "hmm does this verse portray the characters as this tier? No? Then the calcs not usable", it's not complex.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Can't you all just move this to a general thread? At this point, this thread should probably be closed...

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

Myriad interpretations don't matter if they aren't consistent with the verse.

i noticed you ignored/dodged the point, deal with the basis that you're reaching a conclusion while ignoring calcs and data points that would prove its invalidity thereby simply reinforcing your own pre held position reached based on vibes (at best a yet to be established by you method)rather than analyzing or being objective

"I only accept calcs that agree with my sense of scale,” isn't logically coherant when your sense of scale is derived from rejecting the very calcs that might expand it.

Calcs have math, numbers and formulas. Nothing's being denied, I'm saying calcs don't portray a verse by themselves, they require narrative backing like statements or general notions of power.

calcs have objective quantification models with a common denomitator we can use to scale stuff and are able to plenty portray a verse by themselves, only being invalidated by other relevant feats, as they also follow a higher-archy that depends on how crucial to the plot the feat in question is.

The calc is invalid because it doesn’t fit my interpretation, and my interpretation is valid because I reject calcs that don’t fit it is something i hope i don't have to explain why its wrong

Yeah exactly. Statements need to be reasonably explicit for me to judge the verse's scale in relation to the calcs.

Only if it's a something like the naoya mach 3 statement, only something that explicit can help you, but with demon slayer, that doesn't exist and my critique over the lacking at best analysis model holds

Not really, but I see why you'd think that. The statements are the foundation which the calcs are accepted upon for me. If there's no statements or contradictions at all then calcs are free to use of course.

it being personal is smth, but ig we agree here.

I did give a reasonable way, its something vsbw and powerscaling function off, you just don't agree with it.

...you uhh, you didn't, and i laid out plenty reasons why you're wrong

And people can have all the interpretations they like, if they don't map onto the verse then they're irrelevant for the scale. What's the issue with me looking at the verse, comparing it to the calcs, then going "hmm does this verse portray the characters as this tier? No? Then the calcs not usable", it's not complex.

You can have your interpretation but that doesn't protect it from being wrong, and this just begs the question and presupposes a stable objective scale that doesn’t actually exist and is just interpretively constructed. You can’t use an interpretive construct to overrule quantitative data, that’s like saying physics is wrong because the lighting didn’t look dramatic enough.


but honestly imma just call it quits and go read a novel for now

you all have a good one

 

[Arkenis]

i noticed you ignored/dodged the point, deal with the basis that you're reaching a conclusion while ignoring calcs and data points that would prove its invalidity thereby simply reinforcing your own pre held position reached based on vibes (at best a yet to be established by you method)rather than analyzing or being objective

"I only accept calcs that agree with my sense of scale,” isn't logically coherant when your sense of scale is derived from rejecting the very calcs that might expand it.

It's not my sense of scale, its just what the verse portrays.

calcs have objective quantification models with a common denomitator we can use to scale stuff and are able to plenty portray a verse by themselves, only being invalidated by other relevant feats, as they also follow a higher-archy that depends on how crucial to the plot the feat in question is.

The calc is invalid because it doesn’t fit my interpretation, and my interpretation is valid because I reject calcs that don’t fit it is something i hope i don't have to explain why its wrong

Not understanding where the confusion is coming from, it isn't about interpretation it's about what the verse gives us.

Only if it's a something like the naoya mach 3 statement, only something that explicit can help you, but with demon slayer, that doesn't exist and my critique over the lacking at best analysis model holds

I don't believe that? I think you're confused on what statements I think are usable for scale. Everything doesn't have to be that explicit to support calcs.

...you uhh, you didn't, and i laid out plenty reasons why you're wrong

I don't see how I'm wrong by just looking at a verse and seeing if a tier is supported in it but alr.

You can have your interpretation but that doesn't protect it from being wrong, and this just begs the question and presupposes a stable objective scale that doesn’t actually exist and is just interpretively constructed. You can’t use an interpretive construct to overrule quantitative data, that’s like saying physics is wrong because the lighting didn’t look dramatic enough.

Yeah that's where we disagree. I think verses portray a general notion for their power scale and if you can't follow it through calcs then you've created a contradiction with the calc. Character A is a thread to his country with an advance military and other powerhouses who have statements like threaten the city, threaten the town, he'd destroy our best weapons, and then Character A has a feat that's tier 7 or 6 through a calc is completely fine.

 

[Robo432343]

What the Gyutato feat actually looks like

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

It's not my sense of scale, its just what the verse portrays.


Not understanding where the confusion is coming from, it isn't about interpretation it's about what the verse gives us.


I don't believe that? I think you're confused on what statements I think are usable for scale. Everything doesn't have to be that explicit to support calcs.


I don't see how I'm wrong by just looking at a verse and seeing if a tier is supported in it but alr.

what the verse portrays...as determined by your sens of scale

a sens of scale that is non falsifiable because it's all moods and vibes.


your “general notion of power” isn’t a measurable thing. It’s still an interpretive construct derived from subjective reading of statements and tone, you're just rebranding “my interpretation” as “the verse’s portrayal.”


You can't escape the circular reasoning by disguising it in more formal wording when you're still assuming that there is a single coherent power notion the verse portrays that you can accurately perceive it, and it overrides quantitative models even when those models are self-consistent.

this is a mess....

your “general notion” is just a post hoc abstraction not derived from data but from random patterns you find comfortable and then treats that pattern as a law of the verse.

Yeah that's where we disagree. I think verses portray a general notion for their power scale and if you can't follow it through calcs then you've created a contradiction with the calc. Character A is a thread to his country with an advance military and other powerhouses who have statements like threaten the city, threaten the town, he'd destroy our best weapons, and then Character A has a feat that's tier 7 or 6 through a calc is completely fine.

Those statements are qualitative approximations. They don’t quantify energy, area, or time... and you know damn well they’re usually dramatized or metaphorical (“threat to the country” doesn’t mean literally destroy-the-country-level destructive output).

If you discard a calc because a narrative statement feels smaller, you’re subordinating empirical data to rhetorical description , which is, again, interpretive bias.

In contrast, a calc says: “If this explosion looks like X and moves like Y, then given mass Z, the implied energy is Q.”
That’s falsifiable and testable within the model’s assumptions.

genuinely this felt too painful and too wrong to not reply to, genuinely what are you doing?

There’s no “objective portrayal” separate from our interpretive model. The moment you decide what fits that portrayal, you’re filtering data through a subjective lens.

calcs don’t contradict a verse; they quantify what the verse shows. If that quantification clashes with your impression, that doesn’t make the calc wrong it means your impression isn’t a reliable metric, "the verse’s portrayal” isn't an empirical anchor but your a narrative mood thar you're attempting to use to overrule measurement....


genuinely this argument feels pointless again

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Why are you guys arguing scaling here bruh. Use the general discussion thread for something

 

[Keeweed]

Another case of people not knowing anything about KNY scaling and thinking they can speak about it


Then you'd just get kicked from the secret society you guys have going on.

Yes and Goku got hurt by a bullet, so Goku being at 2-C is wank.

This is just appeal to incredulity. C'mon Arkenis you can do better than this.

The verse page is right there Robo.

Completely missed the mark there, Keeweed. Peeps are currently scaling to Gyutaro's 7-C calculation, but like, if you meant KNY profiles scaling to 5.8 Kilotons because of Nakime's feat some months ago, then the validity of your assumption would pretty much depend on the verse the creation feat came from and the context surrounding it.

Like, Sukuna doesn't scale to High 3-A due to True Sphere because of the context and narrative surrounding the feat, but if Gege said "Yes, Sukuna is as powerful as the True Sphere Yorozu created" then that's just High 3-A Sukuna right there.

Downscaling 10x from Emotion Clones or something. Castorice NEVER clarified that on the verse page so it leaves people like you confused. That's our fault.

Appeal to incredulity, and like, why are you talking about real life when it comes to a fictional story? (genuine question)

Muzan's Shockwave at the End of Series? Got tossed for not showing the same amount of destruction as the PSI the calculation used.

I don't know what feat you're talking about.

****, if Gotoge come out and straight up said Infinity Castle IS Infinite in scope, uses "universe" to describe it, and said all Jogen above her is more powerful than her, which includes the Infinity Castle, then Demon Slayer's just High 3-A. Simple as that.

You misunderstood me a lot on my points across the board there.
Main one being “Appeal to incredulity, and like, why are you talking about real life when it comes to a fictional story? (genuine question)”
I meant that towards a point with Muzan not against. I meant that exact fallacy in reference to others. You read that context backwards
Also I fully support and get what you mean of feats taking precedence over feels, that’s something I personally follow. Just in this case the demon who makes the infinite castle is always showcased as being physically very weak and thus its strange the scale to the castle and its not environment destruction.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Wheres the thread for the downgrades?

...?

 

[Robo432343]

...?

there is no thread we're all waiting for it to release

 

[Arkansalter2]

JC vs Hashira (JC has Mythic Weapons).

 

[MANOFGOD7]

at least they got like 8 other calcs in the tier lmao.

He's talking about the multi continental one.

quietly glances at MHA

MHA was intended to be at that level of power ma boi. There are dozens of cloud splitting and weather changing feats in MHA. The last one happened on the largest scale ever but was done with the weakest OFA power ever. Coincidence??

 

[MANOFGOD7]

if you count tier 6 as a whole ig, but when the closest calc is thousands of times weaker and comes from missiles that would've killed top 2 of the verse idk

Are you sure that the missiles were said to be able to kill Shigaraki?? I don't think so.

 

[Mommyleona]

MHA was intended to be at that level of power ma boi. There are dozens of cloud splitting and weather changing feats in MHA

i mean there's a big difference between island lvl or multi continental

Are you sure that the missiles were said to be able to kill Shigaraki?

pretty sure

 

[Keeweed]

The missiles were made by literal law manipulation, the size of the explosion is a feat but I really don’t see it being much of anti feat. Especially against the last punch because the last punch is the thematics of the entire story and carries immensely more significance plot, story, and themes wise than a random attack that didn’t even end up working.

 

[Mommyleona]

The missiles were made by literal law manipulation

no? no they werent lmao, what are you even talking about, they were launched from USA, end of chapter 331

 

[Keeweed]

no? no they werent lmao, what are you even talking about, they were launched from USA, end of chapter 331

Ah the profiles used to make that confusing, but to rephrase that immensely. The fist bump absolutely from star got higher results and that has to be from her power so I really don’t see the random nukes that in the end did nothing being more important than the final punch which is far more plot significance (like by design)

 

[Mommyleona]

The fist bump absolutely from star got higher results

it didnt tho?

more important than the final punch which is far more plot significance

well, yeah, but i have more reasons to think its wrong, but i'll digress, as this isnt the place

 

[Keeweed]

I reread the chapter to refresh my memory, she literally uses her powers on the missiles. I forgot she didn’t create them but she’s using her law powers on them. That was the important part and what I was thinking of the whole time.

 

[Mommyleona]

she literally uses her powers on the missiles.

to move them around/aim, not to strengthen them

 

[MANOFGOD7]

i mean there's a big difference between island lvl or multi continental

A lot of verses have made INSANE jumps in power, this isn't something new.

pretty sure

Check the chapters again my friend. No statements were given that Shiggy would have died,the only thing said was that it would have been a fatal error if he failed to dodge. Shiggy expected an attack that could pulverize him, yet the weaker decoy that took it for him(a near high end nomu <<< high end nomu <<< 75% complete Shiggy <<< 98% complete Shiggy) was still intact but lost consciousness. The injuries he received were mainly burns, which is a result of the intense heat of those futuristic missiles. The heat is definitely what knocked out the nomu(that's what excessive heat does.....), and since we see that the heat greatly affected Shiggy, it's explainable that he could have also passed out, thereby giving Stars and Stripes a better chance to make another move that would totally obliterate him, hence why the attack would have been fatal.

Does it make sense??

 

[Mommyleona]

A lot of verses have made INSANE jumps in power, this isn't something new.

i know, but there's usually some explanation behind it, somehow theoretically weakest punch from deku is stronger than any punch from him prior to that (i mean feat wise) is a bit weird

Check the chapters again my friend. No statements were given that Shiggy would have died,the only thing said was that it would have been a fatal error if he failed to dodge. Shiggy expected an attack that could pulverize him, yet the weaker decoy that took it for him(a near high end nomu <<< high end nomu <<< 75% complete Shiggy <<< 98% complete Shiggy) was still intact but lost consciousness. The injuries he received were mainly burns, which is a result of the intense heat of those futuristic missiles. The heat is definitely what knocked out the nomu(that's what excessive heat does.....), and since we see that the heat greatly affected Shiggy, it's explainable that he could have also passed out, thereby giving Stars and Stripes a better chance to make another move that would totally obliterate him, hence why the attack would have been fatal.

um, lol what, Shiggy saying fatal mistake means he would've died (in other translation he also outright says a fatal wound), he literally had to bury down with decay, taking only a small part of the blast, and he STILL got nearly evaporated
also the last part is total headcanon, there is no other move stronger than that from Star, and no, Shiggy is directly saying he would've died

a near high end nomu <<< high end nomu <<< 75% complete Shiggy <<< 98% complete Shiggy

this reasoning makes no sense, there's no proof that this particular nomu was less durable than Shigaraki, and this instance specifically proves that, Shiggy would've died from those missiles, nomu didnt

 

[MANOFGOD7]

I know, but there's usually some explanation behind it, somehow theoretically weakest punch from deku is stronger than any punch from him prior to that (i mean feat wise) is a bit weird

This is also not something new,a lot of characters do some of their strongest feats with their weakest attacks, Deku happened to be one of them unfortunately, and I'm very glad that you are part of the people that actually know that this is his strongest FEAT done by his weakest punch ever.

This reasoning makes no sense, there's no proof that this particular nomu was less durable than Shigaraki, and this instance specifically proves that, Shiggy would've died from those missiles, nomu didn't

This reasoning makes no sense?? This is not a reasoning,this is straight up story narrative. You are not a knowledgeable member of MHA,so lemme inform you. Shiggy already scales above all nomus when he was 75% complete, because Dr. Garaki called him a masterpiece, Eraser Head upon comparing him to top tier nomus of the verse considered him to be a perfect nomu and considering FEATS, season 6 Endeavor who had little problems victimizing high end nomus had to go plus ultra on 75% Shiggy to stand a chance to defeat him, and he even needed help with that. Saying that the nomu is more durable is ABSOLUTELY INVALID my friend. Therefore,if you claim that nomu didn't die,then Shiggy is in the same position.

um, lol what, Shiggy saying fatal mistake means he would've died (in other translation he also outright says a fatal wound), he literally had to bury down with decay, taking only a small part of the blast, and he STILL got nearly evaporated
also the last part is total headcanon, there is no other move stronger than that from Star, and no, Shiggy is directly saying he would've died

So based on one mere statement that something is going to be fatal, you immediately accept that he was claiming to have died?? I accept that he said that he could have sustained a fatal wound, I've seen it before. But we don't majorly work with statements in power scaling,we work with FEATS. According to feats,nomu and Shiggy didn't get any fatal wounds.

You underestimate Stars and Stripes a little. This is a woman who was strong enough to make the demon lord of MHA consider that his victory wasn't assured and he would have needed full power Shiggy alongside with the OFA quirk before he could go after her. It's fitting that he shouldn't just sit there to tank anything she throws at him.

We didn't witness the full power and potential of Stars and Stripes and you're already sure that the missile punch was her absolute best?? Lemme remind you that she's more potent with her law manipulation power, because even if thousands of other anime characters can tank those missiles with no problems,they are not surviving a heart stop especially if they haven't resisted law manipulation before.

 

[Mommyleona]

his is also not something new,a lot of characters do some of their strongest feats with their weakest attacks

idk about that

This reasoning makes no sense?? This is not a reasoning,this is straight up story narrative.

There's really no narrative that puts that specific Nomu below Incomplete Shigaraki

You are not a knowledgeable member of MHA

Eh, im pretty knowledgeable on MHA

Shiggy already scales above all nomus when he was 75% complete, because Dr. Garaki called him a masterpiece, Eraser Head upon comparing him to top tier nomus of the verse considered him to be a perfect nomu and considering FEATS, season 6 Endeavor who had little problems victimizing high end nomus had to go plus ultra on 75% Shiggy to stand a chance to defeat him, and he even needed help with that

None of this puts him above that Nomu in durability. Endeavor also had to go plus Ultra against just 1 high end Nomu prior to this and needed Hawks's help. Shigaraki being generally superior to Nomus does not mean every single stat of his is superior. Neither are all high end nomus equal, its clear some of them are stronger in certain areas than others, as they are created for different purposes often

Saying that the nomu is more durable is ABSOLUTELY INVALID my friend.

Its not when you look at the blatant feats and statements from Shigaraki himself. Like lol, Shigaraki who buried deep underground and took a tiny part of the whole blast got turned into a chunk of crispy meat while the nomu who took a significantly bigger impact didnt.

So based on one mere statement that something is going to be fatal, you immediately accept that he was claiming to have died??

uh, duh? Shigaraki would know better than you and me his own capabilities at that moment.

But we don't majorly work with statements in power scaling,we work with FEATS

yet you my guy, YOU yourself are trying to push Shigaraki as more durable than that Nomu using statements

According to feats,nomu and Shiggy didn't get any fatal wounds.

according to feats Shigaraki was burned nearly to crisp from a small chunk of the blast while Nomu wasnt from taking a bigger part of the explosion, so no, feat wise that Nomu>>>Incomplete Shigaraki in durability

You underestimate Stars and Stripes a little.

i dont

This is a woman who was strong enough to make the demon lord of MHA consider that his victory wasn't assured and he would have needed full power Shiggy alongside with the OFA quirk before he could go after her. It's fitting that he shouldn't just sit there to tank anything she throws at him.

i dont understand what you're talking about, it was clear cut said S&S had nothing else that could even hope to put down Shigaraki

We didn't witness the full power and potential of Stars and Stripes and you're already sure that the missile punch was her absolute best??

Holy headcanon, please re-read the fight again, she literally had to use external force because otherwise she couldnt do any meaningful damage to Shigaraki, yes it was her absolute strongest move

Lemme remind you that she's more potent with her law manipulation power, because even if thousands of other anime characters can tank those missiles with no problems,they are not surviving a heart stop especially if they haven't resisted law manipulation before.

How is this even remotely related to the conversation, why are you bringing up hax and cross verse fights

 

[MANOFGOD7]

Eh, im pretty knowledgeable on MHA

Ah I see........

There's really no narrative that puts that specific Nomu below Incomplete Shigaraki

I won't argue about this again for your statement about the knowledgeability.

Its not when you look at the blatant feats and statements from Shigaraki himself. Like lol, Shigaraki who buried deep underground and took a tiny part of the whole blast got turned into a chunk of crispy meat while the nomu who took a significantly bigger impact didn't

I love how you are totally deviating from your initial arguments.

How is this even remotely related to the conversation, why are you bringing up hax and cross verse fights

Because since you believe that no one else in the verse can tank those missiles, I'm referring to other OP anime characters that you think can tank them but can actually still fall to her if they joke with the fight or are slower than her due to non resistance to her law manipulation quirk.

I shall end my argument here. As we already know, this is not the place for such discussions. If you really are a knowledgeable member and can debunk the multi continental MHA with this, then feel free to create a forum and present to other knowledgeable members, I'll be there too. If you end up successful, I will get inspired to do same for some other verses,for example,the BC verse, where it really seems inconvenient that Asta is at small planetary with his strongest attack via multiplier stacking, when a direct FEAT of that strongest attack is almost a million times weaker than the AP rating(7.12 zettatons of TNT vs 17.5 petatons of TNT)

 

[LaserPrecision]

If you end up successful, I will get inspired to do same for some other verses,for example,the BC verse, where it really seems inconvenient that Asta is at small planetary with his strongest attack via multiplier stacking, when a direct FEAT of that strongest attack is almost a million times weaker than the AP rating(7.12 zettatons of TNT vs 17.5 petatons of TNT)

Why don't you just make that CRT anyways? That comes off as a threat and agenda scaling as a means of revenge. If you think that thing is invalid u should make a CRT regardless. Not because someone else downgraded a verse you like.

 

[MANOFGOD7]

Why don't you just make that CRT anyways? That comes off as a threat and agenda scaling as a means of revenge. If you think that thing is invalid u should make a CRT regardless. Not because someone else downgraded a verse you like.

Oops
If I seemed threatening, I wasn't trying to do anything close to that. There's no need to create a CRT. All I wanted to do is to make him realize his flaws.

 

[Da3ggman]

I shall end my argument here. As we already know, this is not the place for such discussions. If you really are a knowledgeable member and can debunk the multi continental MHA with this, then feel free to create a forum and present to other knowledgeable members, I'll be there too. If you end up successful, I will get inspired to do same for some other verses,for example,the BC verse, where it really seems inconvenient that Asta is at small planetary with his strongest attack via multiplier stacking, when a direct FEAT of that strongest attack is almost a million times weaker than the AP rating(7.12 zettatons of TNT vs 17.5 petatons of TNT)

 

[LaserPrecision]

Oops
If I seemed threatening, I wasn't trying to do anything close to that. There's no need to create a CRT. All I wanted to do is to make him realize his flaws.

Alright, I'll take your word for it

 

[MANOFGOD7]

Alright, I'll take your word for it

Thank you