• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Garou VS Kamen Rider Buffa: No Longer Human (0-7-0) GRACE ENDED

Messages
4,939
Reaction score
2,129
Two men have been giving up their humanity, though slowly but surely. One strives to become the ultimate monster, while the other is willing to lose himself for the sake of his ideal world. Alas, they intertwine in the crossroads of fate, under the night sky in the bustling city of Dotonbori. It doesn't take long for them to start crashing their heads against one another. They are just strangers, and yet, they are fighting for their lives, ideals and what they believe in. But for these men, only one of them will move onto the next step in order to fulfil their endeavours.

Garou: "Kamen Rider...? Selfishly fighting for your wishes to be granted? You guys are just as shitty as the heroes I face! You don't need to tell me twice to make you eat dirt!"

Buffa: "Don't lump me in with the others. All I'm doing is to end them all. I don't care who you are, or what you are. If you stand in my way, I'll crush you."

Keys and Versions used:​

Half-Monster Garou (7-C) & Conspiracy Arc Kamen Rider Buffa with Boost (7-C). Nothing is restricted.

Location:​

Dotonbori. Starting Distance is 30 meters.

1280px-Dotonbori%2C_Osaka%2C_at_night%2C_November_2016.jpg

Battle Conditions:​

  • Both are in character, but willing to win.
  • Win Condition is by any means necessary, so killing is not off the table.
  • Speed is NOT equalized
  • Buffa has been given the Command Twin Buckle as an optional equipment
  • Everything else unmentioned will be according to SBA

Votings:​


287qf7pu7oc31.jpg
dc8c1e91594d.png


THE MUSIC:



 
Last edited:
So just like the previous Geats fight, Spark makes physical stats equalized. This fight would come down to skill, versatility, and other tertiary factors.

Michi’s regeneration would make it difficult for Garou to land a proper blow. He has attacks such as Poison Rage to bio Hax Garou or Boost to stat amp himself ontop of Spark equalizing stats; Giving him a major stat amp.

In terms of skill, Michi is just as skilled as Ace. If you wanna see how skilled he is, look at the Deku v Geats thread.

An ability I don’t see Garou beating is the passive probability Hax. This fight is pretty even as is, so Michi having an ability which alters probability to his favor is a major advantage
 
The difference is that the form amps aren't a game changer since Garou can bridge the gap (I think).
 
The difference is that the form amps aren't a game changer since Garou can bridge the gap (I think).
It’d be like the original Deku match. If Garou becomes stronger, whatever form Michi is in equalized the stats. Michi starts offf as Jyamato-Zombie. So his base would constantly match Garou’s but it would leave out Michi’s Command Twin, Powered Builder, or his Boost combos
 
Does it include
from Michinaga Azuma?
 
Hmm if y'all think divergence arc is too much, I could use conspiracy arc instead. Buffa doesn't get his regen there.
 
In the midst of inactivity, I have changed Buffa's key to one without the mid-high regen, in case this is the reason why no OPM supporter is willing to touch this.
 
I just forgot :d
Then I will simply add it back lol
Nah, I actually figure we should discuss if having regen is a stomp or not. I'm honestly fine with having either of them, though I figure that it wouldn't hinder Garou's standard tactic of not killing humans (?), rather just knocking them out.
 
**** I legit forgor to bump.
Bump
Y'all can tell me if the regen is too much or not. I can keep the key as is or revert it back. Your call.
 
drop some skill slop for kamen rider

btw could they stat equalize to a stronger version of garou with more stuff like cosmic fear mode
 
All Geats Riders can equalise up to tier 1-C characters and their stats.
I'm mainly waiting for OPM supporters to reply (as well as writing my own for both matches)
 
drop some skill slop for kamen rider

I'll just re-iterate what Berries has said in the Deku vs Geats thread:
Ace is one of THE most skilled Kamen Riders ever. His skilled is comparable to Touma and Aruto. The reason why this alone is impressive is due to many skill feats
  1. Touma is someone who fought against Durendal, a Kamen Rider who had the abilities to erase moment of time (similar to King Crimson) to attack enemies on their blind spot. This ability is something that seasoned fighters struggle to go up against. Touma in his first ever fight against Durendal was able to recognized that time was erased mid attack and was able to predict Durendal’s movements and parry his attack whilst he was already in the motion of attacking. He would then just be able to outright predict movements through his erased time.
  2. Another Saber Rider he scales above is Blades, who had the combined knowledge of all previous Seiken users, all of whom were members of the Sword of Logos. The SoL is an organization that spanned over 2000 years and all of their members were considered to be master swordsmen and some of the best in the worlds.
  3. Hiden Aruto is someone who doesn’t need to be introduced when it comes to precog. Aruto by the end of the series is capable of predicting several trillions to quadrillions of battle scenarios over the span of, I kid you not, a few seconds. Just to point out, the abilities to predict 4 scenarios in Kamen Rider Zero One was so OP that it was able to counters a speed blitz and TP
TLDR: Ace’s skill allows him to keep up with people who’s analytical prediction was so potent that they can predict attacks through erased time, several hundreds of thousands of layered AP that can break through TP and a speed blitz, and the combined knowledge of hundreds of humanity’s greatest swordsmen.
Michinaga is under Ace in terms of the skill chain, but he's still formidable due to the fact that he can match other members just as skilled as him.
 
I'll just re-iterate what Berries has said in the Deku vs Geats thread:

Michinaga is under Ace in terms of the skill chain, but he's still formidable due to the fact that he can match other members just as skilled as him.
i dont see how garou is touching him in that case

voting buffa
 
I guess I'll count the vote. Though without any further arguments for the time being, I'm inclined to not count anymore till I'm very sure no one is going to argue for Garou (which is weird)
 
Touma is someone who fought against Durendal, a Kamen Rider who had the abilities to erase moment of time (similar to King Crimson) to attack enemies on their blind spot. This ability is something that seasoned fighters struggle to go up against. Touma in his first ever fight against Durendal was able to recognized that time was erased mid attack and was able to predict Durendal’s movements and parry his attack whilst he was already in the motion of attacking. He would then just be able to outright predict movements through his erased time.
Another Saber Rider he scales above is Blades, who had the combined knowledge of all previous Seiken users, all of whom were members of the Sword of Logos. The SoL is an organization that spanned over 2000 years and all of their members were considered to be master swordsmen and some of the best in the worlds.
While it might mean something in the verse, these aren't really impressive. One of them is a well prediction skill while the other doesn't really mean much since it doesn't really scale to anything.

Like, someone trained over 1000 years and is one of the best just means he's skilled without anyone to compare or feats of skill.
Hiden Aruto is someone who doesn’t need to be introduced when it comes to precog. Aruto by the end of the series is capable of predicting several trillions to quadrillions of battle scenarios over the span of, I kid you not, a few seconds. Just to point out, the abilities to predict 4 scenarios in Kamen Rider Zero One was so OP that it was able to counters a speed blitz and TP
This is insane.

But, being comparable in skill against a guy like this doesn't mean he's capable of such things. Like Aruto, he has his own perception ability unique to him, it's not just a matter of skill everyone comparable to him scales to.

Can you prove the character here completely scales to these? (Also i couldn't find it in their profile as well)
 
Last edited:
While it might mean something in the verse, these aren't really impressive. One of them is a well prediction skill while the other doesn't really mean much since it doesn't really scale to anything.
Like, someone trained over 1000 years and is one of the best just means he's skilled without anyone to compare or feats of skill.

This is Durendal in action. Touma is able to 'predict' his attack, but he had some ability to help him though. Blades, on the other hand, was able to tag him through pure skill alone. This is by the time that Blades gained the skill of every member of the Sword of Logos. Those big ass experience and skill came to good use.

This is insane.

But, being comparable in skill against a guy like this doesn't mean he's capable of such things. Like Aruto, he has his own perception ability unique to him, it's not just a matter of skill everyone comparable to him scales to.

Can you prove the character here completely scales to these? (Also i couldn't find it in their profile as well)

The Saber Riders fought the Revice Riders at some point (I forgor the results, but they were evenly matched 95% of the time). Those same Revice Riders end up fighting Geats and Co. Before that, certain characters even crossed over to fight together, and they were comparable to each other. Kamen Rider Zero Two is at the highest of the precog chain, while Sabela is part of the current Sword of Logos, and have crossed swords with all the members at some point in her native series. Jeanne's skill is as good as theirs, at which the Revice Riders followed suit, then the Geats Riders. Kamen Rider Tycoon himself have clashed against Kamen Rider Kenzan, another Sword of Logos member, who defeated this guy (I forgor to put this in his profile, but Geats' one has it). TLDR: it's a skill chain that is made from multiple crossovers between the many Kamen Rider series.

To add to this, Ace himself has been fighting constantly in the DGP for about 2000 years as well, winning every single battle royale/death game he participated to date. So he isn't just piggybacking off a skill chain, either. He's important, because almost every character in Geats downscale from him in terms of skill.

This is how Geats basically finessed Revi of Revice without any sweat (before it ends in a stalemate).
 
This is Durendal in action. Touma is able to 'predict' his attack, but he had some ability to help him though. Blades, on the other hand, was able to tag him through pure skill alone. This is by the time that Blades gained the skill of every member of the Sword of Logos. Those big ass experience and skill came to good use.
While it might be something very huge in the verse, it really isn't that high of a skill. Good prediction ability is enough. (Or being aware of your blind points to understand where he'd attack etc).
The Saber Riders fought the Revice Riders at some point (I forgor the results, but they were evenly matched 95% of the time). Those same Revice Riders end up fighting Geats and Co. Before that, certain characters even crossed over to fight together, and they were comparable to each other. Kamen Rider Zero Two is at the highest of the precog chain, while Sabela is part of the current Sword of Logos, and have crossed swords with all the members at some point in her native series. Jeanne's skill is as good as theirs, at which the Revice Riders followed suit, then the Geats Riders. Kamen Rider Tycoon himself have clashed against Kamen Rider Kenzan, another Sword of Logos member, who defeated this guy (I forgor to put this in his profile, but Geats' one has it). TLDR: it's a skill chain that is made from multiple crossovers between the many Kamen Rider series.

To add to this, Ace himself has been fighting constantly in the DGP for about 2000 years as well, winning every single battle royale/death game he participated to date. So he isn't just piggybacking off a skill chain, either. He's important, because almost every character in Geats downscale from him in terms of skill.

This is how Geats basically finessed Revi of Revice without any sweat (before it ends in a stalemate).
I neither see the feat of "predicting several trillions to quadrillions of battle scenarios over the span of, I kid you not, a few seconds" nor an actual reasoning for other characters to scale to it.

Is it even an in-fight ability to begin with?

Not only profiles lack this, i don't even see a reasoning for this current character to scale that level of precog or anything.

Like, just because Zane from Ninjago can "he displayed 3 million simulations of fight in his head in a matter of seconds" doesn't actually scale continuously in-fight as precog nor other characters who are as skilled as him scale to it.

Their special perception based or brains doesn't affect the scaling as long as there isn't a really good reason (like a statement or an actual feat of especially scaling to the character in that regard).

Also again, not even seemingly in the profiles to begin with.
 
While it might be something very huge in the verse, it really isn't that high of a skill. Good prediction ability is enough. (Or being aware of your blind points to understand where he'd attack etc).
I'll explain this one in detail because, the top comments are just the gist of the ability. Durendal's "teleportation" is a time skip. Teleportation is what it is confused with most of the time. So whenever he uses "teleportation" he deletes the time frame from the beginning usage of that ability to its end. So, for example, one moment you are in your living room and the next second you are in your bedroom with no recollection of anything that happened in between.

Not only do you have to predict where Durendal will be, you will also have to predict where you yourself will end up, when the time deletion will happen and how many times it happens. Because Durendal is able to spam it.

Other caveats to this ability is:
  • Durendal can see your every movement within said timeframe.
  • He can do it mid attack. In the scan, you can see Blades try to predict it by attacking behind him, but Durendal erases time right as he does it so he cancels the attack as well.

For the precognition thing, I don't have the scans as of right now so I'll let someone else handle that. The Zero-One profiles are heavily outdated but we still have the scans. But there's basically a whole scaling chain of quantum supercomputers trying to out-predicting one another. So it's undeniable that its scalable.
 
I'll explain this one in detail because, the top comments are just the gist of the ability. Durendal's "teleportation" is a time skip. Teleportation is what it is confused with most of the time. So whenever he uses "teleportation" he deletes the time frame from the beginning usage of that ability to its end. So, for example, one moment you are in your living room and the next second you are in your bedroom with no recollection of anything that happened in between.

Not only do you have to predict where Durendal will be, you will also have to predict where you yourself will end up, when the time deletion will happen and how many times it happens. Because Durendal practically spams it.

Other caveats to this ability is:
  • Durendal can see your every movement within said timeframe.
  • He can do it mid attack. In the scan, you can see Blades try to predict it by attacking behind him, but Durendal erases time right as he does it so he cancels the attack as well.

For the precognition thing, I don't have the scans as of right now so I'll let someone else handle that. The Zero-One profiles are heavily outdated but we still have the scans. But there's basically a whole scaling chain of quantum supercomputers trying to out-predicting one another. So it's undeniable that its scalable.
Isn't it basically Goku vs Hit with extra steps?
For the precognition thing, I don't have the scans as of right now so I'll let someone else handle that. The Zero-One profiles are heavily outdated but we still have the scans. But there's basically a whole scaling chain of quantum supercomputers trying to out-predicting one another. So it's undeniable that its scalable.
The scaling chain of this isn't that simple, like the "Zane from Ninjago" i just mentionted. It isn't as simple as "Their AP scales" or "they could fight against each other".
 
Isn't it basically Goku vs Hit with extra steps?
Not one to one but it does have similarities. The biggest being time is still going on when he is in his out of space-time and that he erases that time so anyone in the vicinity will have a "glitch in the matrix" for a lack of a better term. I'm at work so I don't have it right now but theres a scene where someone was on the first floor of a place in one moment and then in the second floor the next moment.

The scaling chain of this isn't that simple, like the "Zane from Ninjago" i just mentionted. It isn't as simple as "Their AP scales" or "they could fight against each other".
Well, how it worked in Zero-One was that the characters were AI or used AI with analytical prediction scaling chain. I'll try to explain as best I can.

There's three systems I want to bring up:

1. Kamen Rider Zero-One (Shining Hopper Form) has the Shining Arithmetic: Shining Hopper's arithmetic processing unit. Located around the forehead. It predicts enemy behaviour by studying them and creates around 25,000 attack and avoidance patterns in consideration of Zero-One's own performance. From there, it is possible to find an optimal solution to a problem within 0.01 seconds. It's high-speed learning abilities can advance in battle.

2. This gets completely stomped out by Kamen Rider Thouser, who has the Thousand Signal: The base where the five horns meet. It learns enemy behaviour, makes tens and thousands of behavioural predictions and derives an optimal solution within 0.001 seconds which is then presented to the wearer.

3. Fast forward multiple power ups and many episodes and someone gets this: Zero-Two Arithmetic: Zero-Two's faceplate processor. During the battle, the artificial intelligence There extracts the thoughts of the matching person and learns the enemy and surrounding information to predict the behavior. The optimal solution is found in about 0.01 seconds from the 2 trillion patterns of attack and evasion patterns derived from it, and it is reported to the matching person. This ultra-fast learning allows the user to take advantage of the battle.

These are all taken from the official website. I'll just refer them as 1, 2, and 3 to simplicity's sake.

Taking this into account, its obvious to say 3 > 2 > 1. So we see in the show, 2 heavily outperformed and stomped 1. 3 was the most op of all the systems and we see that it was able to completely stomp 2 without 2 landing a single hit, 3 also had his back turned to him the entire fight so he didn't even need to see to counter and dodge all their attacks.

To dive deeper into how the predictions actually work. There was a scene with an android named "Is" that experienced a groundhog day kinda thing, where she relived a day repeatedly. So the day always ends up with Ark, whose the big bad, winning. She goes through millions (I think) of days, where she tries to do something differently in order to win. Millions of tries later, she discovers how to make the Zero-Two system and then Zero-Two beats Ark. Zero-Two does the same thing Is did but 2 trillion times within 0.01 seconds.

How does it scale? Analytical prediction is something that is passive and is on at all times (even if it isn't shown all the tie). There are scenes where it shows the calculations appearing in the show. Its in the AI nature to do everything that I said above.

So we know that there are systems out-predicting one another but there were multiple human examples within the show to actually make it scalable. There was an arc called the "Workplace Competition Arc" that compares the AI androids and humans. Each human in their professional roles stood no chance against any of the regular AI androids to the point, they have to wear a brain enhancer that boosted the brain so that it can match a supercomputer.

So we now how an average human vs an average android was like. The good thing is that there were human Kamen Riders that used no AI to help them. Kamen Rider Vulcan and Valkyrie both had no AI to help them. Vulcan and Valkyrie does really well to fight with their powers and upgrades throughout the show but even they couldn't land a single hit on someone who is inferior to Zero-Two, which is Ark-One. Fast forward many crossovers and Kamen Riders start scaling to one another and then the scaling gets ridiculous to say the very least. (Zero-Two and Ark combines to become Zero-Three and this mfker can predict immeasurable speed and learn reality warping instantly. Buffa doesn't scale to this yet though.)

So on to Buffa. Buffa scales to Geats and eventually beats him in a one on one. Geats, to no one's surprise is someone who goes toe to toe with (if not surpassed) everything I said above. Geats has a lot of explanation already so I can let the Geats experts handle that.

I overdid it with this already and I haven't even brought up Calibur's countless times precognition yet 😭
 
1. Kamen Rider Zero-One (Shining Hopper Form) has the Shining Arithmetic: Shining Hopper's arithmetic processing unit. Located around the forehead. It predicts enemy behaviour by studying them and creates around 25,000 attack and avoidance patterns in consideration of Zero-One's own performance. From there, it is possible to find an optimal solution to a problem within 0.01 seconds. It's high-speed learning abilities can advance in battle.

2. This gets completely stomped out by Kamen Rider Thouser, who has the Thousand Signal: The base where the five horns meet. It learns enemy behaviour, makes tens and thousands of behavioural predictions and derives an optimal solution within 0.001 seconds which is then presented to the wearer.

3. Fast forward multiple power ups and many episodes and someone gets this: Zero-Two Arithmetic: Zero-Two's faceplate processor. During the battle, the artificial intelligence There extracts the thoughts of the matching person and learns the enemy and surrounding information to predict the behavior. The optimal solution is found in about 0.01 seconds from the 2 trillion patterns of attack and evasion patterns derived from it, and it is reported to the matching person. This ultra-fast learning allows the user to take advantage of the battle.
...Doesn't this basically mean that it takes their masks 0.01 - 0.001 second to give them the optimal move?

Isn't this a huge limit?
 
Garou's speed is such that he can already make multiple moves before the person recieves an optimal move from the mask.
Buffa's Spark equalizes speed so they should be equal. So if Garou makes multiple moves, Buffa can too
 
Buffa's Spark equalizes speed so they should be equal. So if Garou makes multiple moves, Buffa can too
I know. I'm not saying Garou will speed blitz instantly.

I'm saying the timeframe makes precog limited here as their speed currently is enough for them to make moves before the mask gives user the optimal move.
 
Nah it’s just that within X timeframe, Y user can predict Z outcomes.

Zero One riders themselves are FTL and they use these predictions to combat comparable opponents.
 
I know. I'm not saying Garou will speed blitz instantly.

I'm saying the timeframe makes precog limited here as their speed currently is enough for them to make moves before the mask gives user the optimal move.
Oh I see, Berries answered it before me lol
 
Nah it’s just that within X timeframe, Y user can predict Z outcomes.

Zero One riders themselves are FTL and they use these predictions to combat comparable opponents.
The mask predicts that much move, but gives the optimal move to the user.
The optimal solution is found in about 0.01 seconds from the 2 trillion patterns of attack

It learns enemy behaviour, makes tens and thousands of behavioural predictions and derives an optimal solution within 0.001 seconds which is then presented to the wearer.

From there, it is possible to find an optimal solution to a problem within 0.01 seconds
Not that it instantly gives that many solution or anything. At least that's what it says here.

I'm not saying characters themselves can't react FTL speed or anything. But is there anything that shows trillions of predictions within FTL timeframe specifically?

Since it's common that even FTL characters fight takes minutes like a normal fight.
 
Back
Top