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Second Fiddlers | Vegeta (Daima) vs Renji Abarai (1-2-0)

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Rules:
  • Adult Vegeta, begins in Super Saiyan 2
  • Post-Royal Guard Training Renji
  • Speed equalized
  • Starting distance of 100 meters
  • Fight takes place on the World of the Supreme Kai
  • Renji is 4-B

Vegeta: 1 (@UnoRebaixadO)
Renji: 2 (@Specterxxxx, @TegamiBachi25)
Bulma and Rukia tell them to cut this shit out (Incon): 0
 
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Now THIS is gonna be interesting


The Elephant in the Room. For ME at least, is the Lifting Strength difference. Renji is at Class M, while Vegeta is Class G.

However, Renji and almost all Bleach pages are still massively outdated and waiting for Cour 4 Revisions. Renji at least should be Class T, due to him being massively superior to Toshiro and his Ice. But also, there has been a calc for Saiyan Saga Vegeta, where he is Class E for pulling in a huge storm and then dispersing it, someone should contact Calc members to either accept or deny it. And THEN there's the whole multipliers, as through Universal Energy System, they both should be FARRR higher scaling chains in Lifting Strength due to multipliers like Super Saiyan and Bankai, but I digress.

But for AP too, Vegeta has Galick Gun and Final Flash, which is far higher. So that should give him the edge in that PARTICULAR department in taking Renji down.

Vegeta Super Saiyan 3: >16.848 GigaFoe with Galick Gun/Final Flash
Renji Bankai: <10.1 GigaFoe (downscaling from his Charged Zagai Zekko)
 
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I don't see why he can't. Plus Versus Matches do not allow restricting of stuff, Unless it is in another Tier entirely
 
Renji with is his Orochiō blade's heat upscales from uryu heat resistance to 15 million degree Celsius on his profile since it's able to melt his blut enhanced arrows and even had to dodge said attack instead of blocking with blut vene. The moment that blade touches vegeta he gets literal cooked and dies.

Also renji is a vastly more versatile fighter with his bankai being able to cause explosions from clashing with his sword, can also cause shockwaves to misbalance his opponent to throw off guard for another attack and shed his fur to seal vegeta (tho it wouldn't helpful as vegeta has higher LS and AP at max tho insignificant) coupled with the fight that renji is a master swordsman with decades of experience he should be able to overpower or vegeta or hold him long enough to land a heated oroicho to win.

Renji could also disintegrate vegeta with zagga teppo and he doesn't need to pierce him, same way he did uryu to do this.


Renji is mostly pulling off the first one before vegeta uses his win con.
 
Now THIS is gonna be interesting


The Elephant in the Room. For ME at least, is the Lifting Strength difference. Renji is at Class M, while Vegeta is Class G.

However, Renji and almost all Bleach pages are still massively outdated and waiting for Cour 4 Revisions. Renji at least should be Class T, due to him being massively superior to Toshiro and his Ice. But also, there has been a calc for Saiyan Saga Vegeta, where he is Class E for pulling in a huge storm and then dispersing it, someone should contact Calc members to either accept or deny it. And THEN there's the whole multipliers, as through Universal Energy System, they both should be FARRR higher scaling chains in Lifting Strength due to multipliers like Super Saiyan and Bankai, but I digress.
Renji isn’t massively superior to the Toshiro that performed that feat tbf. His ice in Shikai was able to stop a full on punch from the same Gerard that one shotted Renji by blowing air at him
But for AP too, Vegeta has Galick Gun and Final Flash, which is far higher. So that should give him the edge in that PARTICULAR department in taking Renji down.

Vegeta Super Saiyan 3: >16.848 GigaFoe with Galick Gun/Final Flash
Renji Bankai: <10.1 GigaFoe (downscaling from his Charged Zagai Zekko)
What are their regular AP values without their best charged attacks?
 
Renji isn’t massively superior to the Toshiro that performed that feat tbf. His ice in Shikai was able to stop a full on punch from the same Gerard that one shotted Renji by blowing air at him
Tbf this was a weakened version that just woke up from being almost killed by uryu. So he isn't just as strong before.
 
Kind of leaning towards Renji FRA because I think Vegeta's personality of just wanting a good fight would **** him up even if he does outskill Renji
 
I think Vegeta would win with medium difficulty. It's true that Vegeta enjoys good fights, but that only happens when he already expects something from his opponent. Vegeta doesn't know who Renji is, so it doesn't make sense to assume he would have expectations about him. I think Vegeta could win simply by using a Zanzoken and striking Renji from behind.
 
I think Vegeta would win with medium difficulty. It's true that Vegeta enjoys good fights, but that only happens when he already expects something from his opponent. Vegeta doesn't know who Renji is, so it doesn't make sense to assume he would have expectations about him. I think Vegeta could win simply by using a Zanzoken and striking Renji from behind.
Over half the fights with DB characters, they don't know about the other person... Vegeta literally knew jack shit about Cell, and still allowed him to absorb 18.
 
Vegeta has more ways to defeat Renji than Renji has to defeat Vegeta.
Renji's win con much faster and easier, skill wouldn't mean anything here when the opponents CQC is packed with a lot of tricks that is going to make it difficult even if vegeta is more skilled.
 
I think Vegeta would win with medium difficulty. It's true that Vegeta enjoys good fights, but that only happens when he already expects something from his opponent. Vegeta doesn't know who Renji is, so it doesn't make sense to assume he would have expectations about him.
He would when he senses Renji's power being comparable to his own.
I think Vegeta could win simply by using a Zanzoken and striking Renji from behind.
Aren't both moving at the same speed? Renji can deflect attacks from his blind spots while running and focusing on another opponent. Watch EP 33 of tybw, he deflects uryu shots from his behind when he wasn't expecting it.
 
Over half the fights with DB characters, they don't know about the other person... Vegeta literally knew jack shit about Cell, and still allowed him to absorb 18.
That's not true, Vegeta already had a good idea of how strong Cell was. and about what it caused in the future.
 
Tbf this was a weakened version that just woke up from being almost killed by uryu. So he isn't just as strong before.
Renji had to have been healed between the Uryu fight and the Gerard fight. Uryu drained his spiritual energy to the point where he couldn’t use Shikai and then inflicted the near fatal wound on him. Unohana explained to Ichigo that healing Kido works by restoring the spiritual energy first and then the physical body heals very easily after the spiritual energy is restored

Renji’s hole in his chest was healed which means his spiritual energy had to have been restored, and the fact that he could use his Shikai supports it.

And even if we ignore that, the difference between Gerard blowing air and throwing a full on punch is an insane gap in power

So either way I don’t think he should scale to Toshiro’s ice’s whether it’s lifting strength or otherwise

That being said….how good is Vegeta’s resistance to soul hax? Lifting strength might not even matter
 
Renji had to have been healed between the Uryu fight and the Gerard fight.
No he wouldn't, we know this back in the arrancar arc when orihime doesn't fully restore ichigo's reiatsu even after fully healing. We are told numerous times that a fully healed body doesn't mean a fully healed spiritual energy.
Uryu drained his spiritual energy to the point where he couldn’t use Shikai and then inflicted the near fatal wound on him.
Wh
Unohana explained to Ichigo that healing Kido works by restoring the spiritual energy first and then the physical body heals very easily after the spiritual energy is restored
I don't recall this at all, a scan please. Because Ichigo was healed completely while his body's armor wasn't repaired which proves the exact opposite of what you said.
Renji’s hole in his chest was healed which means his spiritual energy had to have been restored, and the fact that he could use his Shikai supports it.
No it doesn't, ichigo could still use even bankai after being damaged but still wasn't at full capacity.
And even if we ignore that, the difference between Gerard blowing air and throwing a full on punch is an insane gap in power
Yes to a weakened renji not to a prime one.
So either way I don’t think he should scale to Toshiro’s ice’s whether it’s lifting strength or otherwise

That being said….how good is Vegeta’s resistance to soul hax? Lifting strength might not even matter
Agree to disagree then, but his relativity to uryu should prove his superiority over toshiro.
 
No he wouldn't, we know this back in the arrancar arc when orihime doesn't fully restore ichigo's reiatsu even after fully healing. We are told numerous times that a fully healed body doesn't mean a fully healed spiritual energy.
Orihime’s healing isn’t Kaido. Unohana actually believes that because Ichigo’s wounds were healed, his spiritual energy was already fully restored and he has to correct her. This is because her healing methods are different from Orihime’s
Wh

I don't recall this at all, a scan please. Because Ichigo was healed completely while his body's armor wasn't repaired which proves the exact opposite of what you said.
Right here
No it doesn't, ichigo could still use even bankai after being damaged but still wasn't at full capacity.
That’s cuz Ichigo is usually healed by Orihime who restores wounds quickly and spiritual energy slowly
Yes to a weakened renji not to a prime one.
As explained before, with Renji being healed by healing Kido/Kaido, his spiritual energy wound have to be restored first before the hole in his chest was healed up. But let’s assume that wasn’t the case. You think Renji is weakened millions to billions of times over (or whatever the difference between the force of blowing air and the force of throwing a full on punch with your whole body behind it is), to the point where if he were fully restored he’d close that gap?
Agree to disagree then, but his relativity to uryu should prove his superiority over toshiro.
Toshiro even before going into Adult Form showed relativity to Gerard who’s stronger than Uryu, and Shikai Zaraki/Byakuya, who are stronger than Renji. Unless Cour 4 significantly changes something, it’s still gonna remain that way
 
Orihime’s healing isn’t Kaido. Unohana actually believes that because Ichigo’s wounds were healed, his spiritual energy was already fully restored and he has to correct her. This is because her healing methods are different from Orihime’s

Right here

That’s cuz Ichigo is usually healed by Orihime who restores wounds quickly and spiritual energy slowly

As explained before, with Renji being healed by healing Kido/Kaido, his spiritual energy wound have to be restored first before the hole in his chest was healed up. But let’s assume that wasn’t the case. You think Renji is weakened millions to billions of times over (or whatever the difference between the force of blowing air and the force of throwing a full on punch with your whole body behind it is), to the point where if he were fully restored he’d close that gap?

Toshiro even before going into Adult Form showed relativity to Gerard who’s stronger than Uryu, and Shikai Zaraki/Byakuya, who are stronger than Renji. Unless Cour 4 significantly changes something, it’s still gonna remain that way
I won't continue this to derail the thread.
 
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