Okay, I'll make it clear right away that I won't be responding to Castorise's messages, and it would be great if only admins/moderators responded to this message, as regular users can disrupt the discussion. This isn't a matter of personal negativity. To avoid suspicions of misinterpretation or personal intent, I'm providing screenshots of the main takedowns.
1) Let's start with why I called the first match a stomp. I'll quote the message:
1) Chisaki has a total AP advantage (Low 7-B vs. 8-A)
Here I have to admit I fell into the trust trap. Аrguments surrounding Low 7-B persistently included the fact that Сhisaki's spikes
can oneshot Kaneki,
despite his regeneration, would not only "tear him to pieces," but also blitz "due to speed of spikes." Simply because his durability is 8-A. And also the fact that
Kaneki simply can't touch Chisaki without dying. But you know, when I read the manga chapters more closely, I saw exactly what Low 7-B's spikes do to 8-A characters. It really
doesn't look like "tearing apart,"
does it? The same goes for speed; there's no blitz speed there.
2) Chisaki has an instant or near-instant dura neg wincon, which requires him to touch Kaneki's kagune or Kaneki. Kaneki has no knowledge of this, and his regeneration is useless against it.
This is absolutely true. Kaneki wrests this victory through combat, while Chisaki only needs to touch him. Without prior knowledge, Kaneki risks being touched in the first few seconds. I slightly disagree with the argument that only an idiot wouldn't understand that Chisaki's hands shouldn't be touched, because on what basis would they draw that conclusion? Four clawed hands? Goro from Mortal Kombat says hi, and so does Pochita. Terraforming the Earth? Fullmetal Alchemist also sends his regards; it could be elemental control.
Therefir called Kaneki's knowledge of his opponent's abilities unfair, but Chisaki's ability literally means he can ask Kaneki a question and learn everything about his abilities. It's a fairly obvious balancing act.
Speaking of unfounded claims of lies, my argument for Kaneki initially assumed that decon isn't instantaneous and that
Kaneki would have time to deactivate his kagune thanks to perception if Chisaki has ALREADY started using decon on him, but this was disproved. As soon as I learned that decon is instantaneous, I said it was a stomp.
3) Kaneki has no one-shot wincons because Kai's healing allows him to recover from the attacks Kaneki throws at him.
4) Essentially, the entire match boils down to Chisaki only needing to touch Kaneki or his kagune once to turn him into a bloody mist. Meanwhile, to win, Kaneki must avoid touching his opponent's hands, something he doesn't even know he's doing.
My claims about the stomp were also based on arguments for Chisaki, which claimed that Kaneki's skills lag behind Chisaki's and that he could catch him even with a blitz amp.
This skill advantage and the ability to kill with a touch make the match not so much one-sided as it turns it into a show-off.
However, in the third round, I completely refuted the arguments regarding Chisaki's analytical prediction and his countermeasures against blitz amps.
So, it's ironic that I simply believed the overblown arguments for Chisaki's position. That's the only reason I called it a stomp. There were no other motives. When the vote in the third round was very close, I was satisfied with the discussion, and there was no doubt in my mind that Kaneki would lose. This is what I mean by "I'm just trying to remove the L from my favorite character's profile."
2) Post-Rose Kaneki vs. Chisaki:
I'll be brief here. Kaneki has only partial resistance to decon. Chisaki won't be able to deconstruct his kagune, but he can still kill him with a direct touch.
It all came down to Kaneki having to kill Chisaki while he was trying to get close to him, and Chisaki having to get close to Kaneki before he suffered a fatal wound.
At one point, Chisaki was leading in the votes and could have easily gotten Grace. The match ended 14/8/0, which is pretty close.
@Bruhtelho and
@Kingofwolves999 clearly defended their positions and presented their arguments, so calling it a stomp simply wouldn't work. At the very least, according to the rules Therefir mentioned, both have a chance to kill each other.
This match simply shouldn't be deleted because it complies with the forum rules.
3) Kaneki vs. Chisaki - Match 3:
I still don't see anything unfair in the preliminary information, simply because it makes the character much more cautious. Chisaki still has the same wincons.
However, let's take Therefir's statement at face value that only an idiot wouldn't understand that touching Chisaki's hands is important.
Remove this stipulation, and the essence of the match remains the same.
Let's move on to the Versus Thread Rules, which state:
"An important piece of information or context was entirely omitted or excluded from the debate.
A core argument of the previous debate is deemed invalid for some reason.
A new argument that is fundamentally different from anything previously stated is brought up.
There is a possibility for new conditions for the fight that are significantly different and could lead to a valid new conclusion.
In some cases, even without a core or fundamental change, multiple modest but relevant changes can stack up to justify the match being made again."
In previous threads, I simply overlooked the working tactic of disintegrating Kaneki's kagune at the moment of impact. So that when Kaneki sees Chisaki's hands move toward him, or simply at the moment he strikes him, Kaneki can use it.
How is this different from my very first argument about deactivating the kagune? There, it was a way to study the enemy's abilities and counter decon. Here, it's a preemptive action.
Further, I completely disputed the lethality of spikes, analytical prediction, and analyzed Kaneki's speed amp in more detail. All of this pertains to revising arguments and writing new ones, and it complies with the rules of rematches.
I admit I was wrong about stomp the first time, but as I said, I simply overreacted to Chisaki's arguments. In this match, I presented new ones, and they were refuted.
Some users also claim that I declared stomp to avoid defeat and intentionally concealed winning arguments. But let's be honest: Chisaki's second and third matches almost ended with Grace in his favor, but I was able to translate Kaneki's arguments well enough for him to gain the upper hand. It went from 19/12 in Chisaki's favor to 16/27 in Kaneki's favor. I'm not trying to paint myself in a better light, but if I had the necessary arguments at that moment, I would have certainly used them.
Since this rematch is fully compliant with the rules and contains 10 pages of active discussion, deleting it would simply be wrong. The first match should be deleted because the arguments for Chisaki against this Kaneki key were destroyed in the third round.
4)Tokyo Ghoul vs MHA:
Yes, yes, and yes again. I categorically agree with banning the remaining TG and MHA matches.
To ensure the admins understand my position, I'll ask them to review this match, or at least its final pages.
I just found out that Lemillion only has to hold his breath while his full body is intangible. He doesn't have to otherwise. dosen't change the fact that kaneki still outskills and would just hit him as he's predicting him
vsbattles.com
In the "Lemillion vs Kaneki" battle, Lemillion almost took Grace. Arguments about Kaneki's mid-regen and his stamina were simply not taken seriously and were countered with the counterargument about Togata's superior stamina. This match was really close to being a Lemillion victory, but when Kaneki took the lead in the vote,
TheRustyOne came in and called it a stomp, the rest of the participants called it a stomp, and the match was closed. You know what I mean? While Lemillion was leading, the "regeneration and endurance" arguments weren't taken seriously, but when Kaneki took Grace, the match was closed because it was unfair.
It's rather ironic that the participant who ignored mid-regen and stamina, arguing for Togata's greater stamina, was the one who requested the thread be closed. The user only took the argument seriously when the vote ended in Kaneki's favor. The entire Kaneki vs. Lemillion match turned out to be a failed attempt to give the character a win when, in reality, he had no chance.
We've essentially already had the third MHA vs. TG match where the FRA-train occurs and the MHA supporters are confident of their characters' victory, but when the vote balance changes, they simply cancel the match.
So yes, I would appreciate it if the subsequent interaction between Tokyo Ghoul and My Hero Academia was kept to a minimum.
