Breaking Bond (Mario and Luigi Brothership 2-B (at least 2-C) CRT)

[Galactidot]

Overall I otherwise agree with Armorchompy

Thanks for your points on the other topics, but can you please elaborate (if that's okay with you?)

 

[Galactidot]

I dunno about that.

Reclusa's mere existence causes the surroundings of the REAL WORLD to glitch, and the entirety of his dream worlds do so.

Reclusa gets to shape them however he wants, the absence of something (even if is such a consistent trend, which honestly I wouldn't know) isn't suspicious.

I forgot to mention the ENTIRE dream worlds are mere extensions of his will.

Why would them pulsating imply there's a dream universe connected to them? Also can I ask for a video link to this.

the way the flower's cord moves implying that it's powered on, the main point here is the shared dream!

 

[JPTheGamer]

This is again just misinterpreting the wording. I've never denied that Reclusa shapes and influences the dreams to his desire, that's a pretty clear fact in the story. But I don't think this implies he's shaped the dreams from nothing.

Why don't we give him preparation for this part? After all, the context states he "prepared" them, nothing more.

Embodying a concept is not enough to have abstract existence. iirc Reclusa is permanently killed independently of the abstract concept of isolation of loneliness, which would disqualify even Type 2

What other power/ability would this give him, if any?

I dunno about that.

Reclusa gets to shape them however he wants, the absence of something (even if is such a consistent trend, which honestly I wouldn't know) isn't suspicious.

Why would them pulsating imply there's a dream universe connected to them? Also can I ask for a video link to this.

I know I already suggested this, but at the very least, would you and everyone else who disagrees with the proposal in the OP be fine with this one I suggested? Also, maybe we could give Reclusa Multiversal Range with Dream Manipulation?

What if we gave Reclusa powers and abilities on a multiversal scale? Like this...

• Creation and Dream Manipulation (Multiversal)

We could also give him something like "higher with Dream Manipulation" for his AP. That shouldn't be a problem, right?

 

[Galactidot]

Ehhhh, I really don't think this any more than him stating his intent to kill them. Consistent wording across translations is just proof that the translations are accurate to the original literal text. I think a statement like this isn't enough evidence for EE on it's face.

Fair, I never planned for nothing more than a possibly (unless he's referring to erasing them within his dream world, which he could probably do)

Embodying a concept is not enough to have abstract existence. iirc Reclusa is permanently killed independently of the abstract concept of isolation of loneliness, which would disqualify even Type 2.

He embodies the energy of isolation, not the emotion. Think of it like Super Princess Peach's vibes. Essentially, the power was stripped from loneliness across the multiverse when he died.

 

[Armorchompy]

Why don't we give him preparation for this part? After all, the context states he "prepared" them, nothing more.

Sure, I suppose.

I know I already suggested this, but at the very least, would you and everyone else who disagrees with the proposal in the OP be fine with this one I suggested? Also, maybe we could give Reclusa Multiversal Range with Dream Manipulation?

I don't really know if he's doing it at the same time across all universes, it's just wherever he goes he does it and the effects stick. It would probably be Universal range just because manipulating a dream in mario is considered to be a universal feat, though.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Seems good.

 

[Galactidot]

Seems good.

Activity in this CRT is actually wild

Fr tho hoping the staff read my explanations and give theirs soon

 

[Galactidot]

I think the "embodiment of isolation" thing and erasure statement are figures of speech so I disagree with Abstract Existence and Existence Erasure (and literally nothing supports Conceptual Manipulation).

I agree with @Armorchompy on Reclusa's dream worlds being created and modified indirectly by putting people to sleep and that Reclusa's abilities wouldn't really scale to his AP.

Reclusa is taking control of these individual people, making dreams for them that HE controls, and makes a hivemind he can freely travel between. These are HIS worlds.

I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but yes, they do contain stars.
Nobody but Mario and Luigi could stop him by using the power of bonds. Yes, Mario and Luigi need an amp to kill this guy.

Only Reclusa can do this, no? (This still applies!)

Also, Reclusa prepared the dreams, and they are of his own creation --- they are within the flowers the Soli-tree makes.
He made them alright, but they didn't exactly exist until the Soli-Tree was created. They don't belong to his victims. They are made for them, but belong to him.
Here we can see budding dream flowers inside the Soli-Tree, and roots throughout the area sending the flowers to their victims. These dreams are contained within the flowers.

As stated by Ami:
also the fact that reclusa merged with the soli tree, which is the source of and sustains all the dream flowers that individually contain their own unique dream worlds prepared by reculsa themselves with them pertaining to each unique character designed to be immersive by Reculsa to make them never want to leave. In Mario we see that dreams don't "disappear" like an irl dream would and continue to exist as its own world even after the character wakes up as shown in mario party 5 and dream team. The flower's themselves are what contain these dream worlds and they disappear entirely along with the flower. These a very obviously unique created worlds sustained and created by reclusa having different properties then that of a "natural" dream/nightmare in the verse. The characters within the dreams even have the same glitching effecting along with the world itself, further supporting this. Lastly he can freely enter these worlds, manipulate them, and everything scales to reality as they can collect stuff from within the dream and bring it to the real world.

Also, Glohm is a concept directly tied to Reclusa. To answer your question, it only comes into being when he invades dimensions. When he died, all the Glohm seized to be from the multiverse, which is why, he can't be summoned anymore.

 

[Galactidot]

Now that I think about it, for Reclusa to destroy worlds as he does, he'd have to scale to these worlds in some fashion, whether it be by the implication that he's more powerful than the guardians and gods of hundreds of worlds (a god won't sit back and let someone destroy everything, he'd have to fight them, and he would have won hundreds of times)

But also by the mere fact that Glohm is enough to destroy a world until there's nothing left. We can also believe he scales to these worlds as he just said he's taking it for himself, as he's proved to be capable of hundreds of times. Remember, he specifically ENDS THESE WORLDS. Whether these be universes or planets, he scales regardless.

 

[Galactidot]

Oh shoot I just realized the proof for the dreams getting destroyed was under our noses this whole time.

Reclusa puppeteers the "people" inside the dreams, remember? All at once too. They can't be sentient, as this would deny Reclusa's goal of true isolation. I remember this idea was brought up earlier.

Without the big man upstairs, what happens to these "people"?

The whole plot of the dream mushroom kingdom segment revolves around the bros getting Reclusa to leave. We see them bump up a block at one point, with Reclusa inside it. As the wiki puts it:

He's controlling the dream from the inside, and as I already stated, he's expressly doing this in all the dreams at once.
(He can create clones of equal strength under the same mind, remember?)

We already established the dreams are made in the Soli-tree as well, (which, the Soli-tree also disappears, along with Reclusa's influence everywhere, this being Glohm, dreams, and flowers)

Furthermore...
Without life, worlds simply end. Reclusa tells us this.
As such, Reclusa's worlds were destroyed when he died, which is LITERALLY a sustaining feat.

 

[Imaginym]

Oh shoot I just realized the proof for the dreams getting destroyed was under our noses this whole time.

Reclusa puppeteers the "people" inside the dreams, remember? All at once too. They can't be sentient, as this would deny Reclusa's goal of true isolation. I remember this idea was brought up earlier.

Without the big man upstairs, what happens to these "people"?

The whole plot of the dream mushroom kingdom segment revolves around the bros getting Reclusa to leave. We see them bump up a block at one point, with Reclusa inside it. As the wiki puts it:

He's controlling the dream from the inside, and as I already stated, he's expressly doing this in all the dreams at once.
(He can create clones of equal strength under the same mind, remember?)

We already established the dreams are made in the Soli-tree as well, (which, the Soli-tree also disappears, along with Reclusa's influence everywhere, this being Glohm, dreams, and flowers)

Furthermore...
Without life, worlds simply end. Reclusa tells us this.
As such, Reclusa's worlds were destroyed when he died, which is LITERALLY a sustaining feat.

I'm not very familiar with Brothership's content, & tragically, have yet to find the time to read the contents of this thread, though this does seem like a notable & potent feat of interest.
Users liking this post also suggests it is being received as notable, so I think this should at least be discussed/considered. The arguments sound reasonable in isolation, but I'd be more comfortable approving it if I knew Brothership better. My apologies. (Mind, this isn't a rejection of the feat on my part. Again, it seems reasonable in isolation, based on my incomplete knowledge of Brothership, for whatever that's worth.)

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I'm not very familiar with Brothership's content, & tragically, have yet to find the time to read the contents of this thread, though this does seem like a notable & potent feat of interest.
Users liking this post also suggests it is being received as notable, so I think this should at least be discussed/considered. The arguments sound reasonable in isolation, but I'd be more comfortable approving it if I knew Brothership better. My apologies. (Mind, this isn't a rejection of the feat on my part. Again, it seems reasonable in isolation, based on my incomplete knowledge of Brothership, for whatever that's worth.)

Thank you for participating here.

 

[Armorchompy]

Reclusa is taking control of these individual people, making dreams for them that HE controls, and makes a hivemind he can freely travel between. These are HIS worlds.

Nobody has ever put into question that he is making the worlds, just how. And this says nothing regarding the means through which it's done.

I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but yes, they do contain stars.
Nobody but Mario and Luigi could stop him by using the power of bonds. Yes, Mario and Luigi need an amp to kill this guy.

Wholly irrelevant to the applicability of the scaling.

Also, Reclusa prepared the dreams, and they are of his own creation --- they are within the flowers the Soli-tree makes.
He made them alright, but they didn't exactly exist until the Soli-Tree was created. They don't belong to his victims. They are made for them, but belong to him.
Here we can see budding dream flowers inside the Soli-Tree, and roots throughout the area sending the flowers to their victims. These dreams are contained within the flowers.

The "evidence" doesn't in any way lead to the conclusion. It's a complete non-sequitur.

also the fact that reclusa merged with the soli tree, which is the source of and sustains all the dream flowers that individually contain their own unique dream worlds prepared by reculsa themselves with them pertaining to each unique character designed to be immersive by Reculsa to make them never want to leave. In Mario we see that dreams don't "disappear" like an irl dream would and continue to exist as its own world even after the character wakes up as shown in mario party 5 and dream team. The flower's themselves are what contain these dream worlds and they disappear entirely along with the flower. These a very obviously unique created worlds sustained and created by reclusa having different properties then that of a "natural" dream/nightmare in the verse. The characters within the dreams even have the same glitching effecting along with the world itself, further supporting this. Lastly he can freely enter these worlds, manipulate them, and everything scales to reality as they can collect stuff from within the dream and bring it to the real world.

This paragraph is needlessly bloated with fluff like "they're immersive and they make you never want to leave" or "Reclusa can travel between them and alter them" and manipulative wording ("Is the source of" is a really fancy way to say "it's making them"). None of this changes the very basic fact that there exists no valid evidence that the dream flowers are creating the dreams from nothing rather than altering the minds of the dreamers - which is how they're shown to actually work - and that is the only point in contention right now.

Now that I think about it, for Reclusa to destroy worlds as he does, he'd have to scale to these worlds in some fashion, whether it be by the implication that he's more powerful than the guardians and gods of hundreds of worlds (a god won't sit back and let someone destroy everything, he'd have to fight them, and he would have won hundreds of times)

And why would we assume those are tier 2?

But also by the mere fact that Glohm is enough to destroy a world until there's nothing left.

"Even if it takes an eternity" sure as hell doesn't sound very 2-C to me. In fact it's a pretty clear anti-feat that Reclusa would take "an eternity" to just destroy the physical matter of a world in such a long amount of time, if we're even going with the assumption that's what he's threatening.

We can also believe he scales to these worlds as he just said he's taking it for himself, as he's proved to be capable of hundreds of times.

No we cannot. Conquering something doesn't scale you to it, unless we're saying Genghis Khan was 6-A.

Remember, he specifically ENDS THESE WORLDS. Whether these be universes or planets, he scales regardless.

Overtime, as he clearly stated before and again now "All that awaits them is a slow demise." And that's if we're assuming he's actually physically destroying them, instead of just razing them and killing all their inhabitants (there isn't enough context posted to really know but given his entire thing is mind-controlling people for his amusement i would assume the latter)

Overall this honestly does a pretty good job at showing Reclusa is not tier 2.

 

[Armorchompy]

Reclusa puppeteers the "people" inside the dreams, remember? All at once too. They can't be sentient, as this would deny Reclusa's goal of true isolation. I remember this idea was brought up earlier.

They are sentient. We see this pretty clearly when the player controls Mario & Luigi inside the dream Reclusa made for them. They're trapped inside their own dreams - thus isolated - but they still can (pointlessly) try to escape, that is something we are directly shown.

The whole plot of the dream mushroom kingdom segment revolves around the bros getting Reclusa to leave. We see them bump up a block at one point, with Reclusa inside it. As the wiki puts it:

A wiki is not a viable resource for evidence. Pray tell though, if they are not sentient how can they choose to hit that block and escape the dream?

He's controlling the dream from the inside, and as I already stated, he's expressly doing this in all the dreams at once.

Again nobody put it into question that he's controlling the dreams. You've tried to argue this like fifteen times and it has never not been pointless, it is a basic premise of the story we are all taking for granted. There is nothing in the fact that he has the ability to shape these dreams that somehow points to your interpretation of the facts over mine.

We already established the dreams are made in the Soli-tree as well, (which, the Soli-tree also disappears, along with Reclusa's influence everywhere, this being Glohm, dreams, and flowers)

No we have not. The dream flowers are made in the Soli-tree. The dreams are made by the people who they control, as usual.

Furthermore...
Without life, worlds simply end. Reclusa tells us this.
As such, Reclusa's worlds were destroyed when he died, which is LITERALLY a sustaining feat.

If every single human on earth died, I would consider the Earth to be pretty damn destroyed. Scans please? I'd like to see the wording.

 

[Galactidot]

They are sentient. We see this pretty clearly when the player controls Mario & Luigi inside the dream Reclusa made for them. They're trapped inside their own dreams - thus isolated - but they still can (pointlessly) try to escape, that is something we are directly shown.
A wiki is not a viable resource for evidence. Pray tell though, if they are not sentient how can they choose to hit that block and escape the dream?

I'm clearly talking about the fake characters here
And I only showed the wiki to show you that the entire Mario fandom who has watched the cutscenes have a view consistent with mine.

Again nobody put it into question that he's controlling the dreams. You've tried to argue this like fifteen times and it has never not been pointless, it is a basic premise of the story we are all taking for granted. There is nothing in the fact that he has the ability to shape these dreams that somehow points to your interpretation of the facts over mine.
No we have not. The dream flowers are made in the Soli-tree. The dreams are made by the people who they control, as usual.

Why would he need to "prepare" something instantaneous?!
If it simply modifies the victims to dream weird cyber-dreams (which is blatantly impossible), why did he say he PREPARED all of them?

People can't create "cyber-dreams". It's as simple as that. I've said this before, only Reclusa can. These are his creations, and this is why I brought up his glitch aura earlier.
This is why I mentioned numerous times that these aren't normal dreams.
Normal dreams don't have programmed characters.
Normal dreams don't have glitching.
Normal dreams aren't semi-digital in nature.
And if these were normal dreams, Reclusa would have no need to make the Bros. enter a portal to switch worlds.

Therefore, due to total absence of these qualities in regular dreams, this is creation, as you cannot dream a program.

If every single human on earth died, I would consider the Earth to be pretty damn destroyed. Scans please? I'd like to see the wording.

Yeah sure and all but have you seen how in this franchise the worlds are literally dependent on the wishes and dreams of the people living within them?
Did you forget that the Pure Hearts are literally made from bonds? That these bonds scale to a multiverse-eating void?

 

[Galactidot]

Nobody has ever put into question that he is making the worlds, just how. And this says nothing regarding the means through which it's done.

Wholly irrelevant to the applicability of the scaling.

Yes it is. if he's customizing the dreams, he is also making and is capable of destroying the starry skies. It doesn't get more blatant than that.

Reclusa isn't going "okay close your eyes I changed the dreams programming, but you need to make the new world."

He is LEADING THEM THROUGH PORTALS TO NEW DREAMS.

And why would we assume those are tier 2?

Because we already KNOW this guy is capable of squaring up with Rosalina and Zeekeeper equivalents and coming out unscathed? And he's done so hundreds of times and blatantly claims he can neg-diff the Mushroom Kingdom which Rosalina protects??

 

[Galactidot]

None of this changes the very basic fact that there exists no valid evidence that the dream flowers are creating the dreams from nothing rather than altering the minds of the dreamers - which is how they're shown to actually work - and that is the only point in contention right now.

People's dreams aren't matrices. They aren't virtual. The people are not robots dreaming a literal program dimension.
If Reclusa is capable of turning someone's dream dimension into a computer dimension, that's even MORE impressive, if that's what you're saying.
That'd be the transmutation of the raw existence of entire dimensions into a computer multiverse he can control.

It really is just the matter of either
"Reclusa makes computer dreams from scratch that people can't make by themselves for clear reasons."
or
"He transmuted all the dreams of the world into his own digital dream multiverse, as these dreams can't be digital otherwise."

I went more into detail above.

"Even if it takes an eternity" sure as hell doesn't sound very 2-C to me. In fact it's a pretty clear anti-feat that Reclusa would take "an eternity" to just destroy the physical matter of a world in such a long amount of time, if we're even going with the assumption that's what he's threatening.

This is the guy that goes out of his way to target parents and children first to maximize suffering, of course he wants a slow burn.

Overtime, as he clearly stated before and again now "All that awaits them is a slow demise." And that's if we're assuming he's actually physically destroying them, instead of just razing them and killing all their inhabitants (there isn't enough context posted to really know but given his entire thing is mind-controlling people for his amusement i would assume the latter)
Overall this honestly does a pretty good job at showing Reclusa is not tier 2.

He does this by choice, he is clearly capable of turning the entire sky red in a matter of seconds with a mere hand gesture, and this is light work for him. Again, slow burn. It is a DELIBERATE PLOT POINT that he holds back to toy with his opponents and watch them suffer.

When he stops holding back, he's instantaneously warping, fighting the Bros inside a brain-realm with neurons and everything, turning people into stone, and taking hundreds of hits (including Solar System powered blasts) and requiring most effort the Bros have ever output to beat. You literally have to weaken him with CONCEPT-IGNORING BOMBS to weaken him in his first phase.

He does this all while the Bros were amped by bonds energy btw.

And for him to be fighting the Bonds of 20 people is impressive when only two of them can ignore laws of reality:

“Force alone will not avail you. Stand back from the stone. Your Bonds... put them to use. Open your hearts, and believe in one another. Then the stone will crumble. Show me the power of fire and ice that dwells within you. Fire and ice... opposing forces. Make them one through the power of your Bond. Focus... and believe... That's the way! Now! Release your heart's scream, and let all your power flow at once!”


I do feel the need to remind that Bond Energy is blatantly a power source capable of powering the dimension of Concordia (before the events of the game):
“An energy called Connectar flowed from it to everywhere in the land... That Connectar kept everything going and let us live happy lives.”

So the Glohm Reclusa uses to make worlds does actually scale in physicality to be capable of injuring and killing Mario and Luigi after being amped by 20 bonds.

 

[Galactidot]

They are sentient. We see this pretty clearly when the player controls Mario & Luigi inside the dream Reclusa made for them. They're trapped inside their own dreams - thus isolated - but they still can (pointlessly) try to escape, that is something we are directly shown.

A wiki is not a viable resource for evidence. Pray tell though, if they are not sentient how can they choose to hit that block and escape the dream?

Again nobody put it into question that he's controlling the dreams. You've tried to argue this like fifteen times and it has never not been pointless, it is a basic premise of the story we are all taking for granted. There is nothing in the fact that he has the ability to shape these dreams that somehow points to your interpretation of the facts over mine.

No we have not. The dream flowers are made in the Soli-tree. The dreams are made by the people who they control, as usual.

If every single human on earth died, I would consider the Earth to be pretty damn destroyed. Scans please? I'd like to see the wording.

Armor I responded and answered your points

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Activity in this CRT is actually wild

Yeah

Fr tho hoping the staff read my explanations and give theirs soon

Hopefully

 

[Armorchompy]

Since you have wasted enough of my time repeating inane bullshit I am just going to respond to things in bulk.

I'm clearly talking about the fake characters here

Yes it is. if he's customizing the dreams, he is also making and is capable of destroying the starry skies. It doesn't get more blatant than that.

He does this by choice, he is clearly capable of turning the entire sky red in a matter of seconds with a mere hand gesture, and this is light work for him. Again, slow burn. It is a DELIBERATE PLOT POINT that he holds back to toy with his opponents and watch them suffer.

When he stops holding back, he's instantaneously warping, fighting the Bros inside a brain-realm with neurons and everything, turning people into stone, and taking hundreds of hits (including Solar System powered blasts) and requiring most effort the Bros have ever output to beat. You literally have to weaken him with CONCEPT-IGNORING BOMBS to weaken him in his first phase.
He does this all while the Bros were amped by bonds energy btw.

And for him to be fighting the Bonds of 20 people is impressive when only two of them can ignore laws of reality:

“Force alone will not avail you. Stand back from the stone. Your Bonds... put them to use. Open your hearts, and believe in one another. Then the stone will crumble. Show me the power of fire and ice that dwells within you. Fire and ice... opposing forces. Make them one through the power of your Bond. Focus... and believe... That's the way! Now! Release your heart's scream, and let all your power flow at once!”

I do feel the need to remind that Bond Energy is blatantly a power source capable of powering the dimension of Concordia (before the events of the game):
“An energy called Connectar flowed from it to everywhere in the land... That Connectar kept everything going and let us live happy lives.”

So the Glohm Reclusa uses to make worlds does actually scale in physicality to be capable of injuring and killing Mario and Luigi after being amped by 20 bonds.

Wholly irrelevant to the question whether Reclusa is directly shaping the dreams or not. The law/concept stuff is also just blatant wank unless you think doing a cold attack and a hot attack side by side consists of law manipulation, lmao.

People can't create "cyber-dreams". It's as simple as that. I've said this before, only Reclusa can. These are his creations, and this is why I brought up his glitch aura earlier.
This is why I mentioned numerous times that these aren't normal dreams.
Normal dreams don't have programmed characters.
Normal dreams don't have glitching.
Normal dreams aren't semi-digital in nature.
And if these were normal dreams, Reclusa would have no need to make the Bros. enter a portal to switch worlds.

People's dreams aren't matrices. They aren't virtual. The people are not robots dreaming a literal program dimension.
If Reclusa is capable of turning someone's dream dimension into a computer dimension, that's even MORE impressive, if that's what you're saying.
That'd be the transmutation of the raw existence of entire dimensions into a computer multiverse he can control.

It really is just the matter of either
"Reclusa makes computer dreams from scratch that people can't make by themselves for clear reasons."
or
"He transmuted all the dreams of the world into his own digital dream multiverse, as these dreams can't be digital otherwise."

I went more into detail above.

You continue to make random assumptions about how Reclusa would be able to affect the dream worlds based on my interpretation (somehow thinking that the mind-affecting method would not give him equally full control over the way they appear as him just making them - he is shaping them either way) and on a glitchy aesthetic of all things, and then using them to come to unjustified conclusions. Nothing here actually backs your arguments - Reclusa has full control over how the dreams appear - this is not in contention, and it is not conclusive evidence for anything really.

Reclusa isn't going "okay close your eyes I changed the dreams programming, but you need to make the new world."

He is LEADING THEM THROUGH PORTALS TO NEW DREAMS.

This is wording something in a manipulative way that does not represent the source material to make your arguments seem like they hold any weight.

Yeah sure and all but have you seen how in this franchise the worlds are literally dependent on the wishes and dreams of the people living within them?
Did you forget that the Pure Hearts are literally made from bonds? That these bonds scale to a multiverse-eating void?

So killing everyone is enough to destroy a world? That isn't an AP feat, in fact this straight-up invalidates any claim that Reclusa's statements of "destroying the world" might be.

Because we already KNOW this guy is capable of squaring up with Rosalina and Zeekeeper equivalents and coming out unscathed? And he's done so hundreds of times and blatantly claims he can neg-diff the Mushroom Kingdom which Rosalina protects??

If you're arguing he scales to the Zeekeeper make a CRT for that. Otherwise it's irrelevant.

 

[Armorchompy]

The arguments have been circular for a while and at this point the only thing it serves to do is waste everyone's time and rack up one or two confused agreements from people who have not read the full discussion. Votes have been against the OP for essentially the entire duration of the thread (DDM being represented as an agreement is straight up false - if I am mistaken he is free to correct me given I believe he is still following the thread) and no new arguments have been raised. The OP and supporters have had almost five months now to gather votes or convince the opposition.

I am locking this thread. You are free to appeal to other thread moderators that it should be unlocked but I am of the strong opinion that it should stay this way. The topic has been debated at length and can be considered concluded.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Votes have been against the OP for essentially the entire duration of the thread (DDM being represented as an agreement is straight up false - if I am mistaken he is free to correct me given I believe he is still following the thread) and no new arguments have been raised.

I actually mentioned something here though. And there were still other votes from FinePoint, Imaginyme, or ActuallySpaceMan. Imaginyme seemed more neutral, but FinePoint and SpaceMan agreed with some parts of the OP. Moreover, there was still agreements on this being a range upgrade for Reclusa at least.

While I do agree there isn't much grounds for the so called "Preparing dreams" or "Stabilizing them" being AP feats, they are definitely good reality warping and range feats.

"Even if it takes an eternity" sure as hell doesn't sound very 2-C to me. In fact it's a pretty clear anti-feat that Reclusa would take "an eternity" to just destroy the physical matter of a world in such a long amount of time, if we're even going with the assumption that's what he's threatening.

However, "Destroying worlds until there is nothing left" would pretty much have to be High 3-A at bare minimum. It is consistently stated throughout the series that universes are infinite in size individually or "Contain infinite space." And the recent remasters of both Galaxy games added more lore to the story books doubling down on it. "Taking an eternity" I'm quite positive we can interpret as a hyperbole as the OP did bring up points that his backstory basically confirms he has destroyed/devoured "Other worlds" before. While it does prove he doesn't do this instantly, nor can he do it to more than one universe at the same time, the fact remains is that he can consume an infinite sized world within a finite amount of time. I see this as High 3-A minimum, possibly Low 2-C if time was included.

I can agree that there is nothing quite proving 2-B physical stat scaling based on the Soli-Tree or creating nightmares interpret as dreams, but High 3-A/Low 2-C seem quite blatant. And we cannot reasonably use "Timeframes" as a counterargument against tiers that go that high.

 

[Armorchompy]

I actually mentioned something here though. And there were still other votes from FinePoint, Imaginyme, or ActuallySpaceMan. Imaginyme seemed more neutral, but FinePoint and SpaceMan agreed with some parts of the OP. Moreover, there was still agreements on this being a range upgrade for Reclusa at least.

Well, you said that you might agree with an upgrade based on information not in the OP, that doesn't sound like you're agreeing with this thread, and you still do disagree with the dream stuff being AP. Given that's the main argument that's been discussed I don't think counting you as a disagreement in regards to at least that is unfair.

Fair on the others but a thread remaining in stasis for 5 months (discounting Imaginym and you it's 2 for, 3 against) is still good reason to close it.

While I do agree there isn't much grounds for the so called "Preparing dreams" or "Stabilizing them" being AP feats, they are definitely good reality warping and range feats.

That's not what this thread has been about. I might sign off on it if a new thread was made but neither Finepoint nor anyone else outside of the odd post from Omni tried to get that added to the profiles.

However, "Destroying worlds until there is nothing left" would pretty much have to be High 3-A at bare minimum. It is consistently stated throughout the series that universes are infinite in size individually or "Contain infinite space." And the recent remasters of both Galaxy games added more lore to the story books doubling down on it. "Taking an eternity" I'm quite positive we can interpret as a hyperbole as the OP did bring up points that his backstory basically confirms he has destroyed/devoured "Other worlds" before. While it does prove he doesn't do this instantly, nor can he do it to more than one universe at the same time, the fact remains is that he can consume an infinite sized world within a finite amount of time. I see this as High 3-A minimum, possibly Low 2-C if time was included.

This was also not the main focus of a thread. I disagree with this because I don't think actual universal destruction is what the context is implying but they'd be free to make a new halfway organized thread about it and I'd be up to discuss it for... hopefully less than half a year.