Dagger faces a very short robot (1-7-0)

[Drite77]

Kai has the Ultimate Blend Paint andhis 8-A key is being used, speed is equalized, they start 5 meters apart, sba for the rest

Dagger: 1 (Suigetsuhyugs)

• AP and Dura of 106 joules physically, 102.67 Tons of TNT with Light manipulation (Includes shields)
• LS of >500 Kg

Kai (Gravity Circuit): 7 (Drite77, MannyQ361, Jackythejack, Oiguana2701, Shadowslash125, Nonynho, The_Impress)

• AP of 651.69 Tons of TNT
• Effective Durability of 325.845 Tons of TNT
• LS of 49,216.92 Tons

Hopefully this is not a stomp

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Gravity Circut... got profiles?

 

[Drite77]

Gravity Circut... got profiles?

I did my best '-'

 

[Drite77]

It's been a few hours so I suppose I'll tackle this, I also removed prior knowledge as it is probably not needed

Dagger's light attacks can, in theory, one shot Kai, but Kai has multiple ways of avoiding this, he has intangibility, which he can maintain for a decent amount of time, as well as the chip Emergency Accumulator, which makes Kai's energy reserves take damage instead of him, which likely would stop some of Dagger's attacks. Outside of Kai's intangibility, he is also very mobile, he can have 2 air jumps (With Air Jumper and Function Overload, he can stack those), a mid-air dash, can create platforms to keep his momentum, as well as use his hook to... well, hook on either the ground or on Dagger's forcefields to get closer to her

The AP advantage for him is considerable when compared to her forcefields, at about a ~6.34x advantage, those shields are likely going down with 1 or 2 attacks, which is only going to be made faster with Frame Amplifier, which increases the speed of his attacks, and Clone Array, which creates a clone that mimicks Kai's movements with a small delay. Another thing worth noting about Kai's melee attacks is that they are followed by electricity, so it is not out of the world that Kai kills Dagger the moment her forcefield breaks without even needing to get closer.

Dagger is not an immobile target, but I do believe Kai is much more mobile then her, they are likely even or Kai is better in terms of Acrobatics, but he has much more movement options and advantages. A lot of Dagger's hax is not usefull against Kai due to him bieng a robot (A fact that likely does not matter as she can just one shot him), and, once again, Dagger needs only a single hit to kill Kai, but the scan depicts as it not being instantaneous, so, at the very worst, this would be Inconclusive, as Kai would still have more then enough time to break her shields and kill her.

Overall, both can one shot each other, but Kai would likely win more often then Dagger due to his movement advantage and ways to mitigate Dagger's one shot hits, while Dagger only has her forcefields to stop Kai from killing her in a single attack, so I'm voting Kai

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Before anything else I would like to know what's in character for the robot to start with.

Dagger's light attacks can, in theory, one shot Kai, but Kai has multiple ways of avoiding this, he has intangibility, which he can maintain for a decent amount of time

Fair point

, as well as the chip Emergency Accumulator, which makes Kai's energy reserves take damage instead of him

Kinda weird, how exactly does this work when her attacks are dura neg? It seems more likely that her daggers would simply destroy his batteries directly.

, which likely would stop some of Dagger's attacks. Outside of Kai's intangibility, he is also very mobile, he can have 2 air jumps (With Air Jumper and Function Overload, he can stack those), a mid-air dash, can create platforms to keep his momentum, as well as use his hook to... well, hook on either the ground or on Dagger's forcefields to get closer to her

I don't know the robot very well but one of the things which Dagger does best is dodge, her flexibility and training makes her a consistent hard to hit character.

The AP advantage for him is considerable when compared to her forcefields, at about a ~6.34x advantage, those shields are likely going down with 1 or 2 attack

True but remember that the longer the fight goes the stronger Dagger gets, so if the fight lasts too long his advantage decreases.

s, which is only going to be made faster with Frame Amplifier, which increases the speed of his attacks, and Clone Array, which creates a clone that mimicks Kai's movements with a small delay. Another thing worth noting about Kai's melee attacks is that they are followed by electricity, so it is not out of the world that Kai kills Dagger the moment her forcefield breaks without even needing to get closer.

Daggers attacks can be light speed which is vastly above anything Kai can do.

but the scan depicts as it not being instantaneous, so, at the very worst, this would be Inconclusive, as Kai would still have more then enough time to break her shields and kill her.

He had time to say a few words is not instantaneous but really really fast, he would hardly get another chance to attack at all.

Overall, both can one shot each other, but Kai would likely win more often then Dagger due to his movement advantage and ways to mitigate Dagger's one shot hits, while Dagger only has her forcefields to stop Kai from killing her in a single attack, so I'm voting Kai

As I said before her attacks are light and if it comes to the worse she would use light attacks which are light speed to blind or damage Kai obviously they are too fast for Kai do either dodge or protect himself, likely stopping any movement bursts of speed that Kai could have.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I think you could make the speed unequal. Kai is far stronger in general. Giving her advantage would be good

 

[Drite77]

I think you could make the speed unequal. Kai is far stronger in general. Giving her advantage would be good

It's a 8x speed difference, that's a stomp

 

[Drite77]

Before anything else I would like to know what's in character for the robot to start with.

Well, once can only speculate what video game characters do in character to start, in general, Kai has long ranged options but his main source of attack are his punches, so he would try to close the distance to punch her

inda weird, how exactly does this work when her attacks are dura neg? It seems more likely that her daggers would simply destroy his batteries directly.

It works by consuming energy instead of doing damage to him, by all accounts it should stop frying him as well

I don't know the robot very well but one of the things which Dagger does best is dodge, her flexibility and training makes her a consistent hard to hit character.

Kai has a decent amount of experience against faster opponents (Bit) or that just don't stop moving/are hard to hit (Medley and Cable, who keep moving around, Blade, who flies and uses mostly range and Hash, who can teleport, create clones and become intangible, as well as Nega, which is almost as mobile as a fully upgraded Kai), it's not something new for him at all

True but remember that the longer the fight goes the stronger Dagger gets, so if the fight lasts too long his advantage decreases.

Thing is the fight is not going to last long, they each need a single hit to kill the other, it is not exactly a drawn out fight, it is basically a "who can hit the other first" type of deal

Daggers attacks can be light speed which is vastly above anything Kai can do.

So they are not always Light Speed. Besides, Dagger doesn't have "light speed casting time" she likely still has to aim her arms towards Kai, and he can just turn intangible to dodge them and get closer to her

He had time to say a few words is not instantaneous but really really fast, he would hardly get another chance to attack at all.

I suppose that's fair, but that was mainly an argument for Incon

As I said before her attacks are light and if it comes to the worse she would use light attacks which are light speed to blind or damage Kai obviously they are too fast for Kai do either dodge or protect himself, likely stopping any movement bursts of speed that Kai could have.

I went how Kai could dodge them before they are fired above, but once again, the fight is not going to last long, this is a quick game to see who can hit each other first and considering Spider-Man, who is much slower then light, can dodge her homing attacks, they might be made of light, but their homing properties is not exactly SOL

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Well, once can only speculate what video game characters do in character to start, in general, Kai has long ranged options but his main source of attack are his punches, so he would try to close the distance to punch her

Daggers is for the most part a medium long range so she would keep the distance as she always does, so she would start in advantage.

It works by consuming energy instead of doing damage to him, by all accounts it should stop frying him as well

I know what it means, I'm saying that her daggers being dura neg should ignore that as well, I don't see any reason why that ability would stop her daggers from frying him.

Kai has a decent amount of experience against faster opponents (Bit) or that just don't stop moving/are hard to hit (Medley and Cable, who keep moving around, Blade, who flies and uses mostly range and Hash, who can teleport, create clones and become intangible, as well as Nega, which is almost as mobile as a fully upgraded Kai), it's not something new for him at all

I wouldn't count much on that experience, she is way more experienced with fast opponents and dodging projectiles.

Thing is the fight is not going to last long, they each need a single hit to kill the other, it is not exactly a drawn out fight, it is basically a "who can hit the other first" type of deal

We are discussing how each other will stop the other from hitting them, so it's about how the fight can last.

So they are not always Light Speed. Besides, Dagger doesn't have "light speed casting time" she likely still has to aim her arms towards Kai, and he can just turn intangible to dodge them and get closer to her

Her homing daggers aren't light speed, neither are her solid light attacks, but anything else is even concentrated beams.
Their speeds is equalized Kai doesn't have enough advantage to stop her "casting time", even if he has a small speed advantage with other boosts there is nothing there that would even be argument for a speed blitz even more against Dagger who keeps her distance.
Also while she needs her hands to throw daggers she doesn't need anything to use light shields or omnidirectional bursts of light.
Becoming intangible would not stop Dagger from keeping her distance, Kai is still visible and can't attack when intangible so she would still keep her distance. Kai can't just spam intangibility either once he uses it a Dagger can hit him and he is done for

 

[Drite77]

Daggers is for the most part a medium long range so she would keep the distance as she always does, so she would start in advantage.

The initial distance is not that big, and she doesn't seem to have many ways of moving outside of Acrobatics, unlike Kai who has a lot more to close the gap

I know what it means, I'm saying that her daggers being dura neg should ignore that as well, I don't see any reason why that ability would stop her daggers from frying him.

It shouldn't ignore it at all, it is a form of damage, they would absorb it, there is no reason they should not work

I wouldn't count much on that experience, she is way more experienced with fast opponents and dodging projectiles.

Outside of maybe Spider-Man, who else? Kai is a melee fighter so I don't know why I mention the projectiles at all (If you mean the ones he has when making a melee attack, those come out with his melee attacks, so it would be basically in melee range)

We are discussing how each other will stop the other from hitting them, so it's about how the fight can last.

It's not going to be a long fight either way, it won't even last 1 minute due to how their win conditions are set

Their speeds is equalized Kai doesn't have enough advantage to stop her "casting time", even if he has a small speed advantage with other boosts there is nothing there that would even be argument for a speed blitz even more against Dagger who keeps her distance.

It's not about stopping the casting time, it's about just aim dodging it, once again, Kai is very mobile and he won't stop moving, hitting him is not exactly easy, and with the distance being 5 meters and Dagger lacking any mobility options, she is not going to get very far before Kai approaches her

Also while she needs her hands to throw daggers she doesn't need anything to use light shields or omnidirectional bursts of light.

Which she barely uses according to the scans in the profile being more daggers and sometimes light attacks

Becoming intangible would not stop Dagger from keeping her distance

Neither would Kai, he is pretty much as fast on that form

Kai can't just spam intangibility either once he uses it a Dagger can hit him and he is done for

It has a time limit but it is not too long, besides, once again, the fight is not going to last very long.

I don't doubt can pull the win, but I believe Kai is just more likely to win since he has better ways of avoiding damage and getting close to Dagger

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The initial distance is not that big, and she doesn't seem to have many ways of moving outside of Acrobatics, unlike Kai who has a lot more to close the gap

THey have equal speed he only closes the gap by using boosts and that would be a mistake since her daggers would still go after him

It shouldn't ignore it at all, it is a form of damage, they would absorb it, there is no reason they should not work

A form of damage that ignores durability and shields, armour's even flesh, and the damage caused by daggers is not even normal damage but causing short circuits.

Outside of maybe Spider-Man, who else? Kai is a melee fighter so I don't know why I mention the projectiles at all (If you mean the ones he has when making a melee attack, those come out with his melee attacks, so it would be basically in melee range)

She has multiple feats of dodging gunfire on her speed section, she beat up a team of X-Men among many other feats.

It's not about stopping the casting time, it's about just aim dodging it, once again, Kai is very mobile and he won't stop moving, hitting him is not exactly easy, and with the distance being 5 meters and Dagger lacking any mobility options, she is not going to get very far before Kai approaches her

Aim dodging hardly again they have equal speed and Kai doesn't have any ability like prediction to allow him to aim dodge someone as fast as him. Why are you giving such an advantage to Kai in terms of mobility? His advantage is a speed boost of 20% that's barely an advantage at all, it would not allow him to close the gap before she throws her daggers or forms a defensive shield.

Which she barely uses according to the scans in the profile being more daggers and sometimes light attacks

She has used it to blind people, and has no problem using if her daggers don't work right away.

Neither would Kai, he is pretty much as fast on that form

So I don't understand why you giving such chances for him to close the gap as if it is easy

It has a time limit but it is not too long, besides, once again, the fight is not going to last very long.

My friend a single second cooldown allows daggers to hit him and kill him

I don't doubt can pull the win, but I believe Kai is just more likely to win since he has better ways of avoiding damage and getting close to Dagger

If it's your opinion sure but I don't understand why your argument of mobility means he can close the gap faster than Dagger can react.

 

[Drite77]

THey have equal speed he only closes the gap by using boosts and that would be a mistake since her daggers would still go after him

I've already said how he could, he has a Dash, his Hook can hook into things and boost his momentum, the distance is not that big to say closing the gap is impossible, it very much is and is not hard for someone with Kai's mobility when Dagger doesn't have a lot herself

A form of damage that ignores durability and shields, armour's even flesh, and the damage caused by daggers is not even normal damage but causing short circuits.

The scan said she fried his circuits, not caused a short circuit, which I don't see why Kai's abilities wouldn't stop that, but at this point I would say to just agree to disagree, for me it is very clear it is just some form of Dura negation, which wouldn't exactly bypass Kai's damage reduction

She has multiple feats of dodging gunfire on her speed section, she beat up a team of X-Men among many other feats.

None of those are faster then her, in fact, bullets are much slower then her

Aim dodging hardly again they have equal speed and Kai doesn't have any ability like prediction to allow him to aim dodge someone as fast as him. Why are you giving such an advantage to Kai in terms of mobility? His advantage is a speed boost of 20% that's barely an advantage at all, it would not allow him to close the gap before she throws her daggers or forms a defensive shield.

You don't need prediction to aim dodge things, and I'm giving Kai an advantage because he has better mobility then her, I already listed most of the things he can do to rapidly close the gap, Dagger can only use her acrobatics, which is not enough to maintain the distance from him. And a 20% is not small when combined to his other advantages. Her shield also likely barely matters as Kai can break it, since he also has Danmaku himself

She has used it to blind people, and has no problem using if her daggers don't work right away.

I once again will mention the fact this fight wouldn't exactly last very long, it is a possible win condition for her but I still don't see her taking it more times over Kai

So I don't understand why you giving such chances for him to close the gap as if it is easy

Mobility advantage, again, plus his damage reduction and intangibility

My friend a single second cooldown allows daggers to hit him and kill him

They need to go through his Damage Reduction, which, once again, it is clear we just disagree on how those two would interact

If it's your opinion sure but I don't understand why your argument of mobility means he can close the gap faster than Dagger can react.

It's not faster then can react, but he can close the gap before she gets a chance to build up any distance between them.

Regardless, I feel like we will go back and forth and not exactly change each other's opinions. You can respond, but I'll likely not going to respond back because I believe we both already gave enough reasons why we believe why one of them would win and I think other people who take interest in this thread can likely form their opinion based on our arguments, but happy to do it if other peeps also comment.

It was fun talking with ya and I hope you have a great day/afternoon/night!

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I've already said how he could, he has a Dash, his Hook can hook into things and boost his momentum, the distance is not that big to say closing the gap is impossible, it very much is and is not hard for someone with Kai's mobility when Dagger doesn't have a lot herself

Dash is just running in a straight line, and again nothing in his profile says anything above 20% actually it seems the 20% are a sort of ultimate techniques so any other technique wouldn't even boost his speed anything that could help him.

The scan said she fried his circuits, not caused a short circuit, which I don't see why Kai's abilities wouldn't stop that, but at this point I would say to just agree to disagree, for me it is very clear it is just some form of Dura negation, which wouldn't exactly bypass Kai's damage reduction

The cause of the short circuit is unknown simply because normal physical daggers shouldn't be able to do that. Also as far as I'm aware I this wiki you need proof that damage reduction would work for non physical attacks such as her Daggers

None of those are faster then her, in fact, bullets are much slower then her

That's not how it works, even more so since her speed value comes from a character intercepting a bullet which she can also do.

You don't need prediction to aim dodge things, and I'm giving Kai an advantage because he has better mobility then her, I already listed most of the things he can do to rapidly close the gap, Dagger can only use her acrobatics, which is not enough to maintain the distance from him.

You do need prediction because there is nothing in his profile that indicates he would aim dodge something. The fact she can do acrobatics and create barriers to keep him distant+ blinding him would be enough.

And a 20% is not small when combined to his other advantages. Her shield also likely barely matters as Kai can break it, since he also has Danmaku himself

20% means that he can walk 1,2 meters in the time Dagger does 1 meter it's very insignificant even more so when their distance is 5 meters, it means that he would still take a while and he would have to close the gap while her daggers are right behind him.

Mobility advantage, again, plus his damage reduction and intangibility

And he can use the 20% speed boost, damage reduction and intangibility at the same time? All that while actively aim dodging her attacks and breaking her barriers and keep going while blinded?

It's not faster then can react, but he can close the gap before she gets a chance to build up any distance between them.

Wrong, using simple math and using the 20% speed difference with a 5 meters apart it would take Kai at least 5 seconds to catch up, assuming he keeps at top speed while intangible, the intangibility doesn't even last that long.

 

[Drite77]

And he can use the 20% speed boost, damage reduction and intangibility at the same time? All that while actively aim dodging her attacks and breaking her barriers and keep going while blinded?

Just to clarify, yes, he can do all of those 3 at the same time

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Just to clarify, yes, he can do all of those 3 at the same time

I went to check intangibility doesn't even work against attacks, it's just for going through walls and obstacles, it can't stop make him immune to her daggers, heck it shouldn't even work against her barriers.

 

[Drite77]

I went to check intangibility doesn't even work against attacks, it's just for going through walls and obstacles, it can't stop make him immune to her daggers, heck it shouldn't even work against her barriers.

... It literally does, I don't know where you checked but you don't need to lie about it, I have the game, you could've asked me to check it '-'. Hell, I even forgot about Last Resort which would make sure Kai doesn't die from a single attack either and give him another way to survive it while he gets closer to dagger

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

... It literally does, I don't know where you checked but you don't need to lie about it, I have the game, you could've asked me to check it '-'. Hell, I even forgot about Last Resort which would make sure Kai doesn't die from a single attack either and give him another way to survive it while he gets closer to dagger

I went to check and everywhere I saw say that he can still get damaged by attacks he just can go through obstacles like walls.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

... It literally does, I don't know where you checked but you don't need to lie about it, I have the game, you could've asked me to check it '-'. Hell, I even forgot about Last Resort which would make sure Kai doesn't die from a single attack either and give him another way to survive it while he gets closer to dagger

Actually it seems scheming pink seems to have quite a few limitations, it can only go up, it's movement speed it's capped and it's slower than normal so you can't even use scheming pink while going at a normal speed not does it get any effect from using other speed boosts.

 

[Drite77]

I went to check and everywhere I saw say that he can still get damaged by attacks he just can go through obstacles like walls.

Did you check his profile where the link you have has him being damage by an enemy and Schemink Pink's ability literally allowed him to not be damage by the enemy? That should be clear enough that Kai can not be hurt while intangible

it can only go up

No, it can't only go up, it can go to any direction he wants..., this is the imgur link in his profile I mentioned, you should check it out instead to see if it answers any of your questions before making these baseless assumptions buddy '-'

it's slower than normal

Not that much slower, his normal walking was about 46 frames, the Intangibility was about 38 and the running was about 31. It is slower but likely and it can't be affected by Function Overload, but that doesn't really matter much when Kai's extreme mobility would allow him to close the gap very fast

 

[Drite77]

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