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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

Starline said one core can double your already immense strength to Zavok. Nothing more, there was no mention of Power Cores having any effect on eachother or on it even being a "multiplier" as the wiki defines it rather than an increase that would coincidentally correlate to a two times increase for Zavok in the same way (1 × 2) = (1 + 1) so the assumption that Power Cores aren't just multipliers but also actively stack on top of eachother as well is headcanon especially when Starline says absolutely nothing about what having multiple Power Cores does.
They are not having effects on eachother tho? They are affecting the base value... said value is multiplied by 2 times twice, making it be mutiplied 4x in total...

on it even being a "multiplier" as the wiki defines it rather than an increase that would coincidentally correlate to a two times increase for Zavok in the same way (1 × 2) = (1 + 1)
Starline LITERALLY says it would double Zavok's strenght... yes, it is directly said to be a multiplier... you need to go out of your way to even begin saying it isn't

Firstly I'm not insane enough to calculate it, but I'm willing to bet that in gameplay Sonic isn't literally 7.9x faster using the boost than without it so no we are never shown how much faster Sonic is with the boost outside of purely the numbers registered by the SPD meter. Although even if I was wrong in that regard and the on screen gameplay miraculously did correlate with the SPD meter that doesn't change the fact that we extrapolated a multiplier from solely gameplay mechanics.

Which might I add is no less absurd than concluding that Super Sonic is canonically a 60x multiplier not because of any actual lore but because of the in game damage he does to the Titans in Sonic Frontiers when using his super form compared to the damage his base form does to Gaurdians. All that is to say that extrapolating multipliers from gameplay mechanics for techniques that are never stated or implied to be multipliers is absurd.
ANd yet you were defending nuking a multiplier cuz of hit points in game?

As i said, Shake explained it better than me... so i won't bother to explain further

Starline quote was one core can double "your" already immense strength.
Yes? Cuz Zavok was the one he was using as an example?... was this suppose to prove something?

Besides saying nothing about what having several Power Cores does the amplification provided specifically applies to the user and it is illogical to assume from that statement alone that the second Power Core or the third will do anything more than power up the user independently of the other Cores.
Yes? If i multiply a base value by two twice... it gets multiplied 4 times in total

the effect is on the user... that's the point, said base value is simply now higher cuz it was already multiplied

Firstly Eggman updates his tech all the time so it isn't implausible to assume something similar has happened with Power Cores.
Show proof... conjecure isn't proof

Second I'm not proposing necessarily that they are strictly additive just that their multipliers shouldn't stack
that is literally not logical tho? Why would applying a multiplier twice... not result in said multiplier applying twice?

and besides with either explanation how would 2-C power cores not create circular scaling by default - like oh yes Eggman needs to drain the Sol Emeralds to make his Egg Salamander that scales to half of a 12 universe feat, never-mind that he just has random Power Cores lying around that can greatly amplify characters that are rated higher than that.
Hence why they are not 2-C in energy, they are just multipliers, thank you for agreeing with me that your headcanon about them makes no sense

Third my explanation is the only one with internal logic and here's why by cross comparing our models with a consistency check.

Assumption 1 - Power Cores of the same type are equal to eachother in energy unless otherwise stated.

Assumption 2 - One red Power Core can double Zavoks strength.

Assumption 3 - Power Cores amplify their user specifically.
No sequitur, nothing indicates the conclusion to assumption 3... you showed yourself that it makes no sense earlier

Your explanation: Zavok = 1, with 1 core = 2, with 2 cores = 4 and with 3 cores = 8.

VS assumption 1: It doesn't check out, the increases are only the same multiplicatively but otherwise Core three granting an increase of 4 grants far more than core two with an increase of 2 which grants more than core one with an increase of 1. Those gaps don't make sense with each Power Core having a finite supply of energy that is equal to eachother without unfounded headcanon.

VS assumption 2: True core one happens to double Zavoks strength.

VS assumption 3: Only sort of true. The Power Cores no doubt boost Zavok but they also boost eachother since Zavoks strength with one power core isn't solely his power the only way the overall power he's using can double again with a second core is if said core amplifies more than just Zavoks own strength.

My explanation: Zavok = 1, with one core = 2, with two cores = 3 and with three cores = 4 (Zavoks base strength doubles each time which adds +1 but the amps are separate).

VS assumption 1: It checks out each core grants the same amount of overall power as the first one did.

VS assumption 2: It also checks out one core does indeed bring Zavok from a 1 to a 2.

VS assumption 3: Also works, each core only doubles Zavoks base strength which happens to add +1 with each core as each amp works separately.
they are not boostinf eachother tho? Inventing an explanation to make the conclusion you don't like seem absurd is a strawman

Zavok = 1

Zavok 1 x 2(PC) = 2

Zavok(pc) 2 x 2 (Another PC) = 4

Zavok(2PCs) x 2 (Another PC) = 8

Aka... each power core multiplies by 2... it is just applied 3 times, equalling 8 for the base value

Again, simple math logic
 
Currently I'm trying to make my own Sonic profiles on the Charecters Stats and Profiles wiki so I am re-reading IDW to make note of calculable feats and... [SNIP].
I've probably mentioned this to you before, but we currently have consistent IDW calcs until about Issue 35 - 40 or so if you check the verse page (primarily done by @LaserPrecision). While Sonic throwing the lance has been calced at 8-A for years, and Laser's calcs have placed him solidly at like High Hypersonic+, @Dalesean027 calculated the feat of Sonic casually ramming the Eggperial City Crab Mecha with a Spin Attack in issue... uh... 60-something, I forget, and he got 7-B (12.7 Megatons).

At least you know IDW Supers are Tier 5. Hopefully our old IDW calcs are able to service you.
 
Another Power Core debate
A perfect time for me to take my leave.

Actually, before I do. I have a question for you all.

Would you prefer if I did a CrossWorlds Additions CRT, even with the Imgur stuff currently on the fritz? Or would you want everything to be squared away with Imgur before I do it? Obviously all the current stuff for the CrossWorlds additions will be properly sourced (DUH).
  • (I have a feeling I know the popular answer...)
 
Quick question tho and idk if I asked it before or not so sorry if I did, but does anyone know where this comes from? I've checked the Sonic X Shadow Generations website but no luck
VdPZ5rB.jpeg
Yeah I'm pretty sure you got that scan from us (the only reason I say this with confidence is because typically we're the only ones who care enough to look at every resource possible).

It's from the Sega South East Asia (SEA) website. There's a separate piece that corroborates this in the Shadow section of the shadowxsonicgenerations website that says Shadow is traversing dimensions or whatnot.
 
A perfect time for me to take my leave.

Actually, before I do. I have a question for you all.

Would you prefer if I did a CrossWorlds Additions CRT, even with the Imgur stuff currently on the fritz? Or would you want everything to be squared away with Imgur before I do it? Obviously all the current stuff for the CrossWorlds additions will be properly sourced (DUH).
  • (I have a feeling I know the popular answer...)
Whatever you would want to do more, really.
I would personally wait on a CrossWorlds additions CRT until more DLC and free characters have dropped and stuff, but I know that'd be waiting for A Year and things could always be talked about later if done now. So if you have a preference yourself, I'd say go for that.
 
Whatever you would want to do more, really.
I would personally wait on a CrossWorlds additions CRT until more DLC and free characters have dropped and stuff, but I know that'd be waiting for A Year and things could always be talked about later if done now.
Hmmm, a very fair point tbh. I do think there is some merit in waiting for more content, I just feel it needs to be balanced if it reaches a point where EVERYBODY is like "Where CrossWorlds CRT?"

I can always split it into multiple smaller CRTs. For example, I have everything from the Item Boxes catalogued with clips that I can just do an Item Box CRT on (which I would probably combine with adding vehicular mastery to any relevant character). I also have an outline for the Machines page, which is where we could wait for more content before publishing. Etc. etc.

Thank you for your input. It's often invaluable, and I do wish you posted your miscellaneous thoughts more often (Don't worry bro, we won't tear you to spreads for believing the cast don't grow in power, wink wink nudge nudge)
 
Yeah I'm pretty sure you got that scan from us (the only reason I say this with confidence is because typically we're the only ones who care enough to look at every resource possible).

It's from the Sega South East Asia (SEA) website. There's a separate piece that corroborates this in the Shadow section of the shadowxsonicgenerations website that says Shadow is traversing dimensions or whatnot.
I mean, since the imgur situation is more complicated and extensive, I think starting the CRT for CrossWorlds aditions seems more easier now. Not to mention that the game doesn't have a story mode, so there are just a few things to cover up, don't know what could end up appearing with future DLCs (since technically those DLCs are not canon), but if something relevant comes up, we can make another CRT covering these additions.
 
Zavok = 1

Zavok 1 x 2(PC) = 2

Zavok(pc) 2 x 2 (Another PC) = 4

Zavok(2PCs) x 2 (Another PC) = 8

Aka... each power core multiplies by 2... it is just applied 3 times, equalling 8 for the base value

Again, simple math logic
One four volt battery can double the already immense energy in my container with 4 volts in it.

Surely this is solid grounds for the batteries being "multipliers" and there is nothing at all that's headcanony about assuming the second battery will double the total energy of (container + battery 1) at all 😀.
 
One four volt battery can double the already immense energy in my container with 4 volts in it.

Surely this is solid grounds for the batteries being "multipliers" and there is nothing at all that's headcanony about assuming the second battery will double the total energy of (container + battery 1) at all 😀.
Do you have anything supporting the Power Cores working like batteries instead of the multipliers we are directly told they are?
 
Do you have anything supporting the Power Cores working like batteries instead of the multipliers we are directly told they are?
I essentially copied Starlines quote verbatim with my container as Zavok and the Power Cores as batteries. If the 4 volt batteries in my anology are not multipliers Power Cores shouldn't be either.
 
I essentially copied Starlines quote verbatim with my container as Zavok and the Power Cores as batteries. If the 4 volt batteries in my anology are not multipliers Power Cores shouldn't be either.
in your example, both the battery and container(I assume a charger or something) are running with the same thing(Electricity) with one accumulating it to be used later

in Zavok's case however, he is not an energy container, and the Power Core is also not giving him more energy, it is explicitly raising one of his stats(Strength), so unless you are suggesting that Zavok has the same energy as a Power Core, and that he can magically drain said core to accumulate and discharge energy, your analogy fundamentally doesn't work
 
in Zavok's case however, he is not an energy container, and the Power Core is also not giving him more energy, it is explicitly raising one of his stats(Strength).
It's raising his stats by giving him energy. Power Cores are literally just concentrated energy that Eggman uses for his machines and that happen to give buffs to living things as well with their energy. How else are they supposed to amp users if not by giving them energy
so unless you are suggesting that Zavok has the same energy as a Power Core, and that he can magically drain said core to accumulate and discharge energy, your analogy fundamentally doesn't work
You are missing the point again.

Prove objectively that from Starline saying "one Power Core can double your already incredible strength" alone we should assume that all future Power Cores will double the collective strength of Zavok with his first power core.

That is the point, and while you're at it I'd also like you to prove that me saying one of my 4 volt batteries can double the energy in a container with 4 volts is grounds to assume that 4 volt batteries are automatically 2x multipliers that stack on top of eachother as well if you can.
 
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A perfect time for me to take my leave.

Actually, before I do. I have a question for you all.

Would you prefer if I did a CrossWorlds Additions CRT, even with the Imgur stuff currently on the fritz? Or would you want everything to be squared away with Imgur before I do it? Obviously all the current stuff for the CrossWorlds additions will be properly sourced (DUH).
  • (I have a feeling I know the popular answer...)
That depends. What would Crossworlds add and how bulky would a CRT for it be if you don't mind awnsering? Although I'm assuming that CRT probably will be more than I expect, in which case sorting out Imgur first sounds like it makes sense.
 
A perfect time for me to take my leave.

Actually, before I do. I have a question for you all.

Would you prefer if I did a CrossWorlds Additions CRT, even with the Imgur stuff currently on the fritz? Or would you want everything to be squared away with Imgur before I do it? Obviously all the current stuff for the CrossWorlds additions will be properly sourced (DUH).
  • (I have a feeling I know the popular answer...)
Everything to be settled first with imgur.
 
A perfect time for me to take my leave.

Actually, before I do. I have a question for you all.

Would you prefer if I did a CrossWorlds Additions CRT, even with the Imgur stuff currently on the fritz? Or would you want everything to be squared away with Imgur before I do it? Obviously all the current stuff for the CrossWorlds additions will be properly sourced (DUH).
  • (I have a feeling I know the popular answer...)
Honestly, I feel like Imgur stuff is gonna take a good while, if you already have CrossWorlds content on standby there shouldn't be anything stopping you from doing it.
 
That depends. What would Crossworlds add and how bulky would a CRT for it be if you don't mind awnsering?
Vehicular Mastery for all relevant characters.

A few additions for certain characters like Super Sonic.

Updates to the Item Box page.

Lastly, a vehicle profile for Machines. This one I was probably going to sit on because I think I have ways to improve it.

@Theuser789 @McFriesGuy075 @Fireld Thank you and everyone else for the input btw.
 
I found something I didn't think I would on an IDW reread and there's no sugarcoating it, Clutch is a beast for absolutely no reason and it's a little insane.

Currently I'm trying to make my own Sonic profiles on the Charecters Stats and Profiles wiki so I am re-reading IDW to make note of calculable feats and Clutch, someone I never planned to make a profile for and assumed was just 10-B turned out to be a physical beast which I somehow missed on my first reading. Not paying attention to powerscaling changes quite a bit to say the least, anyways let's go down my personal "what the actual hell" feats from when I was actually paying attention to someone I thought was only a human level mob boss.

1. He smashes a metal console with a swing of his cane and flings two people trying to restrain him with raw strength, so 9-B off to a great start with killing my expectations. Issue #74.

2. Clutch physically grapples with the transformed Eggstreme Gear and isn't immediately overpowered, before he then proceeds to tank a slap from it that sent him flying. Issue #75

3. Clutch dodges a lunge from Surge and while she might have been playing around with him he also had a breif melee brawl with Sonic where both him and Sonic are portrayed with afterimages. Issue #75

4. Did I mention that in that breif scuffle with Sonic he also straight up blocked a homing attack with his cane. Issue #75

5. Surge with an attack that Kit stated was her pushing herself too hard zaps the transformed Eggstreme Gear and Sonic damaging both of them...but Clutch was hit too with the exact same attack and only got knocked out, 2-C Clutch is real and he might unironically be stronger than Rough and Tumble somehow. Issue #75

All and all I expected Clutch to be normal human level but it turns out he might solo a solid 80% of fiction through scaling to characters that he has no buissness even fighting and I'm not sure how to feel about that.
Glad someone else noticed, also what do you go by on CSAP?
 
Btw I have this post on Reddit compiling some of Sonic's fate resistances and such, and also a minor point for Solaris. Tell me if I missed anything or if I was wrong on something
 
Part of the difficulty in CRTing CrossWorlds is the interactions between items and Gadgets, and what the Gadgets do. We have basic official descriptions, but there are functions people've found that aren't stated anywhere, like Omochao's Rings letting you drive over runoff terrain and stuff. And the Drift Charge Kit functions identical to the level 1 and 2 Drift Charge Gadgets, plus a 3 point increase to handling, but that was only found out through testing and not through the description.
 
Part of the difficulty in CRTing CrossWorlds is the interactions between items and Gadgets, and what the Gadgets do. We have basic official descriptions, but there are functions people've found that aren't stated anywhere, like Omochao's Rings letting you drive over runoff terrain and stuff. And the Drift Charge Kit functions identical to the level 1 and 2 Drift Charge Gadgets, plus a 3 point increase to handling, but that was only found out through testing and not through the description.
There's a google doc with all gadget descriptions and functions online:
 
I couldn't see the whole thing, but when I tried to zoom out, Arle Puyo Puyo's ponytail would flicker onto my screen for a few frames which is cool.
 
If this game is canon both to Sonic and to Megaman then that could mean Rush "the dog from Megaman 3" Light gets a Regeneration buff because of surviving the Slicer item cleaving him 1/2, and I paused my Minecraft game to run here and mention that.
 
so what is this all about?
If Otherworld Comedy was canon, Chris explained and contextualized his response about the "isekai stories" not being canon. He was referring to the illusion worlds created in the story, they are not canon because, well, they were illusions lol.
 
This just seems to prove that what Chris meant by "canon" is something entirely different than what the people asking him meant. The fact he calls them non-canon because they "weren't real" is proof enough on the matter.

Can't believe people were using his response to try and "debunk" the status of Otherworld Comedy lol
 
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