TheStinkeer
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I checked the profiles including Trips and yep, they all have that resistance so no need to worry!
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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Nah, there is no proof. Dodon Pa only simulated existence of a non-existence of Time. No biggie.
Tails got worse, thats all. Tsk Tsk
TheStinkeer
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he's him fr
true...
Jokes aside tho I find it pretty likely Classic Tails was erased seeing he's in the same spot Tails is when you switch to Classic in White Space right after you get the ability to, I'll probably make a new save file on Generations and check if Classic Tails says anything abt it
ShakeResounding
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LMFAO **** you man.
Like that is the lamest excuse ever
whenever Shadow threw hands with Sonic when they were at odds, he was typically going for the kill anyways lolYeah, Silver in the JP scripts is typically much more rude iirc. But in fairness even English Silver is rude many times, like in Rivals 2 (iirc) where he gleefully steals Tails rings and insults others throughout. Pretty funny, I will admit.
I don't mind Silver being an in-between of Sonic and Shadow in terms of seriousness, but the fandom's Cinnamon Roll Silver just isn't appealing to me. Especially when he essentially debuted as an angsty 14-year-old.
MysticMania
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The idea of Metal aging out of time manip resistance like it's an old shirt is cool
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Does this mean that there could be arguments for tanking the erasure as actual durability feats?
ShakeResounding
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I think there was an entire thread about whether EE counts towards AP or not.
It would count as AP for the Time Eater but not as a durability feat for the cast, as the "tanking" here is just resisting without something to specify it was through actual strength/power.
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Well typically, Shadow never really goes for the kill. Only time you could argue he may have is in SA2 (if you ignore the fact that Shadow was already aware of Gerald's plan anyway and he knew nothing would've changed if he did or didn't). Any other time, they're really just fighting for the sake of it. I don't think Shadow would ever have a reason to try an actually kill Sonic past SA2 or Shadow 05 alt routes.Like that is the lamest excuse ever
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I still can't believe Ian presumably let the line from Sage about Dodon Pa's simulations rivaling Cyber Space in their complexity slide lol.
Like oh yes power-creep is horrible...now excuse me as I allow this racing game character to casually create technology that can measure up to the most advanced technology that we have ever seen in Sonic canon. To say the least I don't like that line at all from a worldbuilding perspective since I would prefer for the Ancients technology to be incomparably above the rest of tech in the verse at least for a really long time. And that's coming from someone who's perfectly fine with base Sonic surpassing Perfect Chaos.
Albiet to be fair I can cope by just saying that complexity level isn't the same as advancement so Cyber Space is superior to Dodon Pa's tech for being larger in scale, self expanding, capable of storing souls and being based in chaos energy so Dodan Pa is only comparable in the sense of making simulations with real effects.
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Idk if a bomb goes off and it destroys an entire building and I'm just fine, I'd count it as a durability feat. It just feels like an odd argument/counter for the feat by only counting it as hax. Though, I can sorta get it. I just believe that it could perhaps be given a chance for further discussion.
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Guys… GUYS GUYS GUYS! Sonic conveniently points out a specific jar in the museum in the new IDW Chaotix Anniversary issue, Ancient Apotos which would literally just be Ancient Greece, Sonic is literally depicted ON THE ******* JAR indicating a story!
They’re gonna do it at some point! They’re finally gonna pull the trigger on that old idea for 3rd storybook game being set in Greek Mythology!!!
They’re gonna do it at some point! They’re finally gonna pull the trigger on that old idea for 3rd storybook game being set in Greek Mythology!!!
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ShakeResounding
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Don't... don't give me hope...
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I assume you're joking, but unironically a third storybook game based on Greek mythology could be pretty cool and I low key wish that it will happen.
ShakeResounding
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Yeah I don't blame you.
I understand your analogy, I don't mean to throw shade but certain reasonings to not scale to Dura sound like tier-gatekeeping excuses
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Speaking of which, how was that anniversary issue? Was curious about it, even if it is a one-off story.
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I’m actually not joking! Way back when Sega held a poll asking the community what should be the third storybook game, and the winner was Greek Mythology! Unfortunately the storybook series was abandoned (just like a lot of things in the 2010s) and it never came to be.
But THIS! It’s literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF US! In Ancient Greek stories are literally depicted on vases! From myths, heroic deeds, to daily life. That one strip of page has given me more hope than ever that they’ll return to the storybook series, staring with Greek Mythology!
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BELIEVE BROTHER!!!
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It was alright, nothing too big, but that’s to be expected from a story about pure detective work (or maybe I’m just not too into detective work
). ADORED the writing of the characters and the art styles they were throwing in! And there were plenty of memes! Amy doing that one Sonic face where he looks at camera with a dark expression, Vector is either A) The Columbo of the Sonic universe, or B) He’s a real big fan of him in verse, etc.
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Nah I get it 100%. That's been a huge problem here, especially for Sonic, for years and years and it's starting to become tired. If it were any other character, they would have those dura feats quick, fast, and in a hurry and people would agree. It's not like people can even call this an outlier either because Shadow Gens proved this happened to TWO people (Sonic and Shadow) among the other side characters. Statistically makes that "outlier" more questionable, especially since these are basically the two main characters of the franchise.
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Either way, another element from Sonic X is canon (shoutout to anybody who gets the reference).
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I'd argue it's supporting evidence for Low 2-C or higher but just a hax resistance as a solo feat but that's just me.
Although I have some scaling questions related to that feat and to similar one's if anyone has thoughts.
1. Finite speed calcs: I know that currently we consider the Sonic universe to be infinite in size meaning Time Eaters speed feat is rated as Infinite by default. Still as an indexing website should we calc finite ends for the Paradox Prisim and the Time Eater to put on the verse page for the sake of thoroughness and off-wiki refrence why or why not?
2. Our current calc: Currently the Time Eaters universe deletion does actually have a speed calc but it assumes a time frame of 5 minutes to get 4.89 Quadrillion C and uses the radius of the universe for distance.
But with the evidence of Sonic's chilli dog not hitting the ground from the moment it got blown away and with how fast Time Eaters deletion was in Shadow Generations do you guys think the feat can be recalculated using a 10 second or 5 second time frame for results of 146.7 Quadrillion C to 293.4 Quadrillion C?
3. New Calcs: If we did make a finite speed calc for the Paradox Prisim using the radius of the universe is the perfect lowball for an omnidirectional feat distance wise but what should be used for the time-frame if that was calced? Also what do you guys think of the feat of Black Doom creating the Doom Zone in Shadow Generations because I saw it used as a speed feat in a Mewtwo vs Shadow blog and thought it was interesting?
The basic gist of it is that Black Doom corrupted White Space and presumably the realms that were contained within it at the time and it was portrayed as happening from Black Doom expanding his energy outwards which took 3 seconds in cinematic timing. Using cinematic timing and the radius of the universe it gets 489 Quadrillion C but if you instead use the diameter of the universe since at least two timelines/universes were in White Space the feat gets to 978 Quadrillion C. So do you guys think that is viable to use as a speed feat why or why not?
Last for this section how would you feel about calculating the light of Solaris, do you think it is a valid feat and if so what time frame should be used? (I remember it being a bit over 73 Quadrillion C with 20 seconds as a time-frame)
4. Finite speed scaling and base charecters: If those were accepted as calcs how many of them could be scaled to the base form cast if they somehow lost their Infinite ratings and through what reasoning?
Anyways that's all thanks...I'm starting to think maybe I should try making a blog at this point because I made the questions longer than I meant for them to be.
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MysticMania
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Considering how Sonic Team has also handled the character, I wouldn't say "vindication" imo.
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MysticMania
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I liked it. I'm gay for the old bird dude and the character interactions are fun. It didn't treat the characters like a joke thankfully.
TheStinkeer
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Also no he did not say anything about it, Classic Tails just materializes out of thin air after saving Tails without elaborating lmao
This is probably one of the few possible holes I came up with in my mind for erasure resistance but honestly it can be explained, like:
1. characters like Big, Cubot, and Orbot survived, therefore its not that serious. But they're mostly gag characters and Big especially has a gag about surviving the most stupid things ever, + Cubot and Orbot were made by Eggman like Omega. Maria and Gerald are there because Black Doom was wanting to bully his son with his trauma
2. Sonic's friends were kidnapped and he wasn't, so he was spared and he doesn't get a resistance. But then the screen goes white which as we see, strongly implies erasure. The time holes had the areas colored and not erased, the Time Eater was in space performing his cool AoE blast which we see directly erase things. And if all that wasn't convincing enough he did the same to Classic Sonic
3. Classic Tails wasn't shown to be affected. But he also wasn't shown to be not affected either, see the above explanation
ShakeResounding
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Sorry in advance for my multitude of replies @Snek
However, it would probably be a decent thing to use for thoroughness' sake and off-site as you mention. I find it a reasonable recalc because yeah, five minutes is a conservative end for the feat due to the factors you once again mentioned (the chili dog being blasted away but then returning swiftly after reality is restored).
The Shadow Generations cutscene alone means we can use that as an actual timeframe for universe-destruction. Overall, you can probably copy the math from that blog and simply alter it to use whatever exact timeframe it is.
The only issue is I believe this may be open to interpretation, as the screen goes black for like an instant before then segwaying back to Sonic in The Void. My guess would be that a low-end can be used (perhaps 30 seconds or a minute?) with a high-end using the time between Sonic impacting the Paradox Prism and then Sonic being ejected into The Void (again, Shadow's perspective will likely help with this).
The main issue is that Black Doom's powers within Shadow Generations are somewhat vague. Not the abilities related to (nearly) corrupting and mutating Shadow, but his more esoteric ones that revolve around his new space-time manipulation powers that are still never intricately explained. Well, aside from him somehow claiming his rebirth process was sped up cuz the Time Eater shenanigans, but even that is vague.
Does Doom Space lock you out of all other levels? If it does, one could argue he did actually reach through them all but even then that's a double-edged sword of it never being explicitly shown. If you can enter other stages during Doom Zone, then it likely confirms he didn't need to reach throughout all the repaired stages.
It's been a while since I peered at the other Infinite Speed feats so my memory is a bit shoddy on the subject.
TBH yeah the current Time Eater feat can be recalced with that assumption, I think that's fair game. However, we just want to be careful regarding the fact that it is technically possible to argue against it on-wiki because it produces this quasi-inflation scenario. Quasi-inflation in the sense that the relevant cast already scale to Infinite and thus it would be redundant to try and get it higher.
However, it would probably be a decent thing to use for thoroughness' sake and off-site as you mention. I find it a reasonable recalc because yeah, five minutes is a conservative end for the feat due to the factors you once again mentioned (the chili dog being blasted away but then returning swiftly after reality is restored).
The Shadow Generations cutscene alone means we can use that as an actual timeframe for universe-destruction. Overall, you can probably copy the math from that blog and simply alter it to use whatever exact timeframe it is.
We can use Shadow's perspective of the Shattering for a timeframe iirc. As far as I can tell and remember, it takes less than 15 seconds for the Paradox Prism to splinter Sonic's universe.
The only issue is I believe this may be open to interpretation, as the screen goes black for like an instant before then segwaying back to Sonic in The Void. My guess would be that a low-end can be used (perhaps 30 seconds or a minute?) with a high-end using the time between Sonic impacting the Paradox Prism and then Sonic being ejected into The Void (again, Shadow's perspective will likely help with this).
I would say using this as a feat is somewhat dodgy, to say the least
The main issue is that Black Doom's powers within Shadow Generations are somewhat vague. Not the abilities related to (nearly) corrupting and mutating Shadow, but his more esoteric ones that revolve around his new space-time manipulation powers that are still never intricately explained. Well, aside from him somehow claiming his rebirth process was sped up cuz the Time Eater shenanigans, but even that is vague.
Does Doom Space lock you out of all other levels? If it does, one could argue he did actually reach through them all but even then that's a double-edged sword of it never being explicitly shown. If you can enter other stages during Doom Zone, then it likely confirms he didn't need to reach throughout all the repaired stages.
IIRC it actually had a calc but I can't remember if it was off-site or not. Got into the Quadrillions range iirc.
- Time Eater would be arguable to scale to the two Sonics, though Time Eater doesn't really have a UES to work off of so the scene of the Sonics dodging its blasts might be rendered moot.
- Paradox Prism works because of upscaling statements with Sonic (specifically those that take place Post-Prime and also explicitly mention him running "faster than ever before", which means scaling to the Prism feat would start at Frontiers iirc). Funnily enough though, that actually makes Frontiers Sonic Infinite Speed because of 4-Shard Prism Sonic being able to physically be in two places at once to high five himself with a noise of contact even being made, making it one of the best yet silliest feats in the series to date.
It's been a while since I peered at the other Infinite Speed feats so my memory is a bit shoddy on the subject.
LMAO that's alright man, so long as I'm here and have the knowledge then I will do my best to make sure your questions are answered.
ShakeResounding
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Stop man... my Hopium levels on this subject are getting too high for my liking....
Jokes aside, the fact that you bring this up does actually make me think that there's some substance to this!
Bless your heart of hope.That one strip of page has given me more hope than ever that they’ll return to the storybook series, staring with Greek Mythology!
TheStinkeer
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Hmmm it'd be super awesome and I love the storybook games, though my only concern is the vision for the franchise today is a whole lot different than what it was back in the 2000s so how the story might not fit in as well with SR and BK
Still would be happy to be proved wrong if they actually do make a third storybook as I really do love them, especially if they nail the gameplay this time
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We don't know why it was changed, but I do think the writer had to change parts of the story. I vaguely remember that. The delays are mostly IDW's fault, though. They are bad at deadlines.
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It was that Sega thought that Shadow pulling a sword and threatening Sonic was too much of an escalation from what was happening. I think Evan even agreed.Like that is the lamest excuse ever
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One of my favorite IDW issues honestly.
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Fair enough. So I'd assume ten seconds or maybe fifteen seconds might be viable then if five seconds could be seen as just trying to inflate the calc (then again even if the chili dog was launched a hundred meters up five seconds is about what it would take to hit the ground with an acceration rate of 9.81m/s² but I digress since the Quasi-inflation point is fair).
The calc is fairly straightforward then so would I need to just make a blog and a CRT to replace the calc on the verse page or is the calc so inconsequential that changing it to use a ten or fifteen second time-frame is no longer considered wiki vandalism?
Would you say the warping speed of Chaos Control at least should scale to that feat if nothing else does at least? Also how arguable is it for Shadow's reaction time to scale to the universe crunch for him to be able to activate Chaos Control in the first place right in the nick of time especially when the technique as far as I remember requires conscious thought to activate?
Also I remember it was a slow motion shot before it cut to black with Sonic and co being sent up and only having time to blink before it cut to black so could that support a fast time-frame like maybe 30 seconds is used as a low end while 1 second is a high end?
I remember on the aforementioned Mewtwo vs Shadow blog (the reddit post that features it says happy Mewtwo day so you can tell it apart from the others if you want to read it) the argument was that the Doom Zone is a dimension and Black Dooms power already had cosmic scale in say maintaining the time anomaly so it reasoned that Black Doom likely affected more than just Shadow's white space when he turned white space into a Doom Zone. The reasoning for it being a speed feat was that it was done via the Black Moon thing firing a beam that expanded outward to make the Doom Zone which I agree is reasonable although I also agree that the argument for the scale of what Black Doom corrupted is arguable.
I find it hilarious how much Sonic high fiving himself has given power scaling bloggers headaches. Like I remember for the Bowsegg G1 blog they dedicated an entire section to why Sonic high fiving himself isn't valid for Infinite speed scaling which is kind of funny even if personally that's a feat where I'm willing to take it or leave it.
As for Time Eater I don't know if a lack of UES would really matter after all Sonic is still dodging energy attacks from it and it would be a bit strange for said attacks to randomly be slower than the omnidirectional blasts it uses to take universes into White Space-that and I also find it notable that Sonic doesn't seem that intimidated by the incomplete Time Eater that preformed the feat either so much so that he's confident he could take it on with backup from himself but weaker so scaling wise I'm not sure why Sonic wouldn't scale to a casual Time Eater in speed (just not to immeasurable speed since the warping arm attack kind of blitzed the Sonic's even when the Eggmen weren't fully trying yet).
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Also, you can enter the stages when Doom Zone is activated.
TheStinkeer
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Ngl I know this site doesn't accept it but it's still crazy how Base Sonic was barely outrunning a Super Sonic tier enemy here
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So, out of curiosity I checked back at Heroes, and power cores there work essentially as (for speed characters at least)
Level 0: 1 damage
Level 1: 2 damage
Level 2: 3 damage
Level 3: 4 damage
So, while 1 core does double the power of the user, 2 cores doesn’t quadruple it, just triple it, and 3 cores quadruples it.
So, not as impressive.
For power characters it’s sort of inconsistent, but it seems like their actual power doesn’t increase at all for the basic attacks with each core, rather the damage increases based on the level of the character used for the attack, and the damage for the power character themselves increases in their super move. And flight formation is similar.
Level 0: 1 damage
Level 1: 2 damage
Level 2: 3 damage
Level 3: 4 damage
So, while 1 core does double the power of the user, 2 cores doesn’t quadruple it, just triple it, and 3 cores quadruples it.
So, not as impressive.
For power characters it’s sort of inconsistent, but it seems like their actual power doesn’t increase at all for the basic attacks with each core, rather the damage increases based on the level of the character used for the attack, and the damage for the power character themselves increases in their super move. And flight formation is similar.
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In that case perhaps power cores only double the users power but don't stack on top of eachother? So getting one core doubles the users power but then getting two triples it overall not because the multiplier changed but just because the amps work in isolation so if a user has a 1 power level one core doubles that so +1 = 2 but then getting a second core doubles the user independently of the other core so +1 = 3 resulting in an overall 3x increase?
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Probably the case, sadly no 128x multiplier for super sonic speed but it’s at least a cool 8x.
Back to Time Eater, I roughly estimated his dimensional energy suck at around 112 quadrillion c based on standard universe size and the timeframe in the Shadow Gens cutscene. Maybe controversial but, I think this can scale to base Sonic’s boost, seeing as he seemingly outpaced the Time Eater to grab the Chaos Emerald in the 3DS version, and there’s no circular scaling seeing as super Sonic fights the stronger combat version later.
TheStinkeer
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Even if we include the 3DS version here, Time Eater would still have to find a way to scale to the speed of his own attack, which sadly we haven't seen I don't think
TheStinkeer
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A couple days ago I was looking on one of the Immeasurable speed threads for the Super Hedgehogs and Solaris, and saw one person (@/Greenshifter) make a drawing abt the objects Solaris throws. Though I think the objects should be the same strength as the beams due to them causing equal damage and stun to the Super Hedgehogs, I have some doubts abt their speed, so I wanted to try and replicate that drawing but for the beams Solaris shoots. I have two versions of it and I'd like to know which one is the most accurate if either are accurate at all
A:
B:
B:
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There is Sonic outrunning casual attacks from the complete Time Eater, but that might be circular scaling admittedly.
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