Spider-Man (60's Cartoon) vs. General Grievous (Disney)

[Lonkitt]

These two recently had major revisions done on their pages

-Speed is equalized
-The battle takes place in the empty streets of New York City
-Starting distance is 10 meters away from each other
-Grievous is accompanied by two IG-100 MagnaGuards at the start of the fight (they're in his optional equipment, so this can be done apparently. They scale to 3.116 Tons of TNT and have Superhuman LS)


The Statistics
-Spider-Man scales to 7.454 Tons of TNT in base and upscales that value with Awakened Power. Grievous downscales from 491.07 Tons of TNT and upscales that value with Grievance Striker
-Spider-Man and his standard webbing scale to 147.97 Metric Tons. He upscales that value when using his Awakened Power, Extra-Sticking Webbing, and Concentrated Steel Webbing. His Metal-Eating Monster Webbing scales to 9324.25118 Metric Tons. Grievous scales to 12.669 Metric Tons

Who wins and why?


Spider-Man: 3 (Arkansalter2, Greatsage13th, Pyro9278)

General Grievous: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Pyro9278]

What can Spider-Man do to defeat an 8-A?

 

[Lonkitt]

What can Spider-Man do to defeat an 8-A?

Spider-Man's LS (both physically and with webbing, no matter the variant) is FAR higher than Grievous' LS. He could incapacitate Grievous and leave him incapable of escaping

This isn't anything new on the forums, we've had threads conclude with weaker AP characters (with better LS) winning over stronger AP characters (who have inferior LS by comparison)

 

[Pyro9278]

Spider-Man's LS (both physically and with webbing, no matter the variant) is FAR higher than Grievous' LS. He could incapacitate Grievous and leave him incapable of escaping

This isn't anything new on the forums, we've had threads conclude with weaker AP characters (with better LS) winning over stronger AP characters (who have inferior LS by comparison)

Well, I don't know how skilled this Spider-Man is, but if he manages to strip Griveous of his lightsabers, catching him will become the easiest part. For now, I won't be voting; I'd rather wait for arguments in favor of Griveous, but everything seems to indicate that the LS should be sufficient.

 

[Lonkitt]

Well, I don't know how skilled this Spider-Man is, but if he manages to strip Griveous of his lightsabers, catching him will become the easiest part.

While he's not as skilled of a swordsman as Grievous, I'd say he's certainly a much better aim than the General (that is in regards to his aim with webbing and through other unconventional means of attacking). On top of that, he's very proficient at disarming opponents from a distance via webbing. Honestly, his Anti-Magnetic Webbing has a pretty good argument for outright destroying Grievous' Lightsabers just on contact alone, given it could short-circuit technology far more complex than any Lightsaber

 

[Arkansalter2]

Precog carry like always. Grevious doesn't have force sense which is a major hassle for Grevious. Grevious won't be able to see the web coming and welll.. that's yet another robot that Spidey is webbing.
Spidey, low-mid diff.

 

[Lonkitt]

Vote counted

 

[Pyro9278]

While he's not as skilled of a swordsman as Grievous, I'd say he's certainly a much better aim than the General (that is in regards to his aim with webbing and through other unconventional means of attacking). On top of that, he's very proficient at disarming opponents from a distance via webbing. Honestly, his Anti-Magnetic Webbing has a pretty good argument for outright destroying Grievous' Lightsabers just on contact alone, given it could short-circuit technology far more complex than any Lightsaber

So what are Grievous's wincons here? One hit is supposed to be enough to kill Spidey, but if he can't even overcome his LS, I doubt he can overcome his precog.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I don't know, Grievous constantly faces and defeats Jedis who have precognition/danger sense and LS to take his lightsabers from a distance.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I don't know if I would agree with Disney Canon Force Precog being as good as the Spider-Sense.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I don't know if I would agree with Disney Canon Force Precog being as good as the Spider-Sense.

Why?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Why?

Because its even more inconsistent than the Spider-Sense from the comics.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Because its even more inconsistent than the Spider-Sense from the comics.

Spider-sense in the comics has canonical explanations for its limitations, based on this. So it's not really an inconsistency; it's just a canonical explanation of how comprehensive spider-sense is.

Star Wars precognition is just PIS because the writers simply forget this power exists. Even the most basic things, like seeing through the Force, are forgotten.

SW precognition works like this:

Double vision: the Force showing him the present overlaid with a glimpse of a moment into the future-two blaster bolts coming from the drivers of the two vehicles-the first scoring into his upper chest, the second into his lower side-
With a snap-hiss his lightsaber blade blazed into existence-

[Novel] Thrawn: Alliances

Double vision: the Darshi feinting left, then swinging his stick from the right-
The attacker staggered back, twisting around from the impact as Vader slapped him hard across the side of his
Not the blade. Only the hilt. If Thrawn could take on three opponents with just a stick, so could Vader.
Double vision: stick jabbing at his helmet-
Vader swung his lightsaber, deflecting the attack, then jabbed the end hard into the center of the alien's chest.
Double vision: slapping blows against helmet and right forearm from the remaining two Darshi-
A complete waste of their time, of course, combat sticks against body armor. But Vader allowed the attack, letting the blows land without effect, luring them into moving within range of counterattack. Two more quick jabs with his lightsaber, and they had joined their companions on the floor.
-[Novel] Thrawn: Alliances, Chapter Eight, Page 210

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Spider-sense in the comics has canonical explanations for its limitations, based on this. So it's not really an inconsistency; it's just a canonical explanation of how comprehensive spider-sense is.

Star Wars precognition is just PIS because the writers simply forget this power exists. Even the most basic things, like seeing through the Force, are forgotten.

SW precognition works like this:

I know how it works, that doesn't change the fact that the ability just stops working half the time in Disney material.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I know how it works, that doesn't change the fact that the ability just stops working half the time in Disney material.

You can't say they work or don't work at any point, since we don't have a POV.

You also can't say that the future vision has any weaknesses or limitations, that for some reason it doesn't work or stops working. So unless you actually find canonical material explaining that "sometimes precognition doesn't work/stops working", inconsistency is not taken into account.

Inconsistencies or PIS aren't something that should be taken into consideration; the wiki itself mentions this unless there's a genuinely good reason for it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Because its even more inconsistent than the Spider-Sense from the comics.

Legends precog is the same way man, or did we suddenly forget how Darth Marr ******* died?

 

[Lonkitt]

I don't know, Grievous constantly faces and defeats Jedis who have precognition/danger sense and LS to take his lightsabers from a distance.

I disagree heavily on that last part. Jedi’s never use their LS against Grievous at all. Certainly never regarding his lightsabers. Comparing it to web incapacitation isn’t at all sound here because these are totally different things

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Jedi’s never use their LS against Grievous at all.

I mean, Yoda already did.

 

[Lonkitt]

I mean, Yoda already did.

Sure, but...Yoda's easily superior to Grievous and it's not like Grievous hard countered that move from Yoda. The scan show's it being effective against him. This isn't a great example to use for why Grievous would easily deal with web incap, being disarmed, or Anti-Magnetic Webbing instantly short-circuiting the Lightsabers on contact

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is basically a stomp for the record, yeah. 60s Spidey isn't stupid enough to go into melee with Grievous and Grievous has zero counters to web spam.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Sure, but...Yoda's easily superior to Grievous and it's not like Grievous hard countered that move from Yoda. The scan show's it being effective against him. This isn't a great example to use for why Grievous would easily deal with web incap, being disarmed, or Anti-Magnetic Webbing instantly short-circuiting the Lightsabers on contact

I'm not saying he could handle the thing; he's a Class 25. But pulling out his lightsaber would be something he already knows, considering this scene and probably others (since the guy killed countless Jedi).

Yoda himself, in his duel against Grievous, only used this tactic at the end of the duel, when Grievous got angry with the droids.

I mean, what's stopping Grievous from simply cutting through the webs? Besides, if he has any initial success, he'll know Spider-Man's tactics, and as stated in his profile, he'll quickly adapt to his fighting style. And about the Anti-Magnetic Webbing, like, Grievous has four lightsabers. Unless Spider-Man hits all four at the same time, Grievous will realize what the webbing does.

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

omagad Grievous

 

[Lonkitt]

I'm not saying he could handle the thing; he's a Class 25. But pulling out his lightsaber would be something he already knows, considering this scene and probably others (since the guy killed countless Jedi).

Is it really? Because I doubt he's gonna go "this guy might telekinetically pull away my lightsaber". His other battles don't exactly show him fearing that possibility. Not only that but why would he assume Spider-Man's gonna do that? And even if he did assume Spider-Man...what's he gonna do? Like, what has he shown that he's gonna do as a counter to people yoinking his Lightsabers?

Yoda himself, in his duel against Grievous, only used this tactic at the end of the duel, when Grievous got angry with the droids.

Cool. Still something Grievous couldn't hard counter

I mean, what's stopping Grievous from simply cutting through the webs?

Spider-Man's webs can easily restrain all of Grievous' limbs. You can't seen the range and radius his webs can cover, have you? He can easily coat Grievous' entire body in webbing with a single web line, wet net, wet shot, etc.. Hell, with a single web line, he could easily hold down the arms of a giant robot. You really think that Grievous is simple cutting through those should each of his arms gets webbed?

I mean, what's stopping Grievous from simply cutting through the webs? Besides, if he has any initial success, he'll know Spider-Man's tactics, and as stated in his profile, he'll quickly adapt to his fighting style. And about the Anti-Magnetic Webbing, like, Grievous has four lightsabers. Unless Spider-Man hits all four at the same time, Grievous will realize what the webbing does.

Grievous is a great fighter and excellent at adaptation, but at this point, you're just making Spider-Man sound like a bad tactician. You really think he's gonna fire one web, get it cut, and then Grievous goes "Hmm, yep, I completely understand how he fights, he's got no tricks". Peter isn't at all like any fighter Grievous has come across. This isn't gonna be a single one-on-one battle

What's he gonna do against IBP Webbing? He's not gonna assume Peter's webbing can do that based on the other instances. What about the stronger variants of webbing? He can't even get himself out of the standard variant, so those following stronger ones are really gonna be a dick for him. What about the fact that Spider-Man's standard webbing can create a moving replica of himself? What about Spider-Man's MUCH BETTER mobility? The man can jump to the top of a skyscraper in a single bound, hop across city blocks, and easily cross skyscrapers with his jumps. Peter's gonna take advantage of that and his range advantage for sure. Even with the insane agility of Jedis, Grievous doesn't boast that same level of mobility. If Spidey gets out of sight (which he definitely could given his stealth capabilities), what's stopping Spidey from using Advanced Ventriloquism to get the General right where he wants him?

You're making this out like Spider-Man's a one trick pony when he's actually got a ton he can use to his advantage here

Also...yes. He legitimately could target his four Lightsabers at once if he had to. He's got two hands and even a single web shot can shoot out in multiple direction at once

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Is it really? Because I doubt he's gonna go "this guy might telekinetically pull away my lightsaber". His other battles don't exactly show him fearing that possibility. Not only that but why would he assume Spider-Man's gonna do that? And even if he did assume Spider-Man...what's he gonna do? Like, what has he shown that he's gonna do as a counter to people yoinking his Lightsabers?

He'll know when he sees a web being shot towards him. Then he can just dodge or cut it.

Still something Grievous couldn't hard counter

He wasn't looking at Yoda throughout the scene, nor was he actually holding his lightsaber properly. It was a brief moment of distraction.

Spider-Man's webs can easily restrain all of Grievous' limbs. You can't seen the range and radius his webs can cover, have you? He can easily coat Grievous' entire body in webbing with a single web line, wet net, wet shot, etc.. Hell, with a single web line, he could easily hold down the arms of a giant robot. You really think that Grievous is simple cutting through those should each of his arms gets webbed?

The submarine one looks good, but does it look like he made a net with it? Does he make webs that wide in width by shooting normally?

You really think that Grievous is simple cutting through those should each of his arms gets webbed?

Can he cut it before the web hits him? Like, you're implying the web will hit him 100% of the time, every shot hitting Grievous. The guy can just cut the web before it hits him.

Grievous is a great fighter and excellent at adaptation, but at this point, you're just making Spider-Man sound like a bad tactician. You really think he's gonna fire one web, get it cut, and then Grievous goes "Hmm, yep, I completely understand how he fights, he's got no tricks". Peter isn't at all like any fighter Grievous has come across. This isn't gonna be a single one-on-one battle

You're making this out like Spider-Man's a one trick pony

What? I never mentioned Spider-Man's skill level, nor did I say he'd only do that.

I was just trying to counter the normal web thing and the anti-technology web thing. I was talking about what Grievous could do in that situation.

I never said Spider-Man would act like an idiot and just keep slinging webs. Like, where did you get that from? I'm just talking about what Grievous would do in the situations presented in the thread. And two of them involve Spider-Man slinging webs at Grievous. I don't know the character well enough to refute all the possible things he can do, I just talked about what was covered here.

And again, I never said Grievous would know all of Spider-Man's tricks just by slinging webs. I said he'd initially know Spider-Man can sling things at him and would gradually adapt to this tactic of slinging things at him.

And I'm not making Spider-Man a one-trick pony. I'm literally just talking about what I'm shown, which is the guy shooting webs at someone (yes, they have different properties, but it's still shooting webs at someone).

If he does something else, then like, just show me? I don't know the character.

What's he gonna do against IBP Webbing? He's not gonna assume Peter's webbing can do that based on the other instances. What about the stronger variants of webbing? He can't even get himself out of the standard variant, so those following stronger ones are really gonna be a dick for him. What about Spider-Man's MUCH BETTER mobility? The man can jump to the top of a skyscraper in a single bound, hop across city blocks, and easily cross skyscrapers with his jumps. Peter's gonna take advantage of that and his range advantage for sure. Even with the insane agility of Jedis, Grievous doesn't boast that same level of mobility. If Spidey gets out of sight (which he definitely could given his stealth capabilities), what's stopping Spidey from using Advanced Ventriloquism to get the General right where he wants him?

So, it seems Grievous doesn't have any advantages.

I checked the profile and also saw that Spider-Man has heat-resistant webs on par with a lightsaber. So one of Grievous's main advantages doesn't matter.

I think Grievous's only advantage here is AP.

I guess this is a stomp, then.

 

[Lonkitt]

He wasn't looking at Yoda throughout the scene, nor was he actually holding his lightsaber properly. It was a brief moment of distraction.

While true, I don't think him being on guard would allow him to prevent his Lightsabers being pulled away by Class K forces

The submarine one looks good, but does it look like he made a net with it? Does he make webs that wide in width by shooting normally?

Indeed he does. Against the Metal-Eating Monster, he was able to make HUGE web lines that restrained it's legs before making a web laser that was large enough to wrap around its body (even the first batch of new webbing he used against the robot had pretty good covering and restraining capabilities)

What? I never mentioned Spider-Man's skill level, nor did I say he'd only do that.

I was just trying to counter the normal web thing and the anti-technology web thing. I was talking about what Grievous could do in that situation.

I never said Spider-Man would act like an idiot and just keep slinging webs. Like, where did you get that from? I'm just talking about what Grievous would do in the situations presented in the thread. And two of them involve Spider-Man slinging webs at Grievous. I don't know the character well enough to refute all the possible things he can do, I just talked about what was covered here.

And again, I never said Grievous would know all of Spider-Man's tricks just by slinging webs. I said he'd initially know Spider-Man can sling things at him and would gradually adapt to this tactic of slinging things at him.

And I'm not making Spider-Man a one-trick pony. I'm literally just talking about what I'm shown, which is the guy shooting webs at someone (yes, they have different properties, but it's still shooting webs at someone).

I apologize if my message came out wrong there. I was simply trying to convey that Grievous wouldn't be able to adapt to Spider-Man's fighting style if all he saw was Spidey using his Standard Webbing and the Anti-Magnetic Webbing. Also the fact that this version of Spidey's webbing comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes. I just didn't think it was fair to assume that the first essential web shots would give Grievous the best impression of what he's dealing with

Once again, sorry if I twisted your words there. That's on me, I didn't mean to be disrespectful

So, it seems Grievous doesn't have any advantages.

I checked the profile and also saw that Spider-Man has heat-resistant webs on par with a lightsaber. So one of Grievous's main advantages doesn't matter.

I think Grievous's only advantage here is AP.

I guess this is a stomp, then.

Yeah, I'm starting to slowly realize that too LMAO

 

[DragoZeroNova]

If Grievous cannot cut through his webs (or can but somewhat slowly), I also think this is a stomp in Spiderman's favor.

 

[Doggo]

stomping a dude who one-shots you via higher LS is crazy damn

 

[Greatsage13th]

A suprisingly one sided win for the friendly neighborhood peterman.

 

[Pyro9278]

Spidey FRA

 

[Lonkitt]

stomping a dude who one-shots you via higher LS is crazy damn

If 616 Spidey did half of the things 60's Spidey did with his webbing, then 616 Spidey's life would generally be so much easier and I mean that with zero irony

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If 616 Spidey did half of the things 60's Spidey did with his webbing, then 616 Spidey's life would generally be so much easier and I mean that with zero irony

He lacks creativity.

 

[Doggo]

He lacks creativity.

The writers lack creativity*