Boros's ship calc and High 6-C scaling

[NikHelton]

Hi everyone.

I'll say right away that this isn't a content revision.

I have a small question regarding the High 6-C update and the calculation of Boros's ship. Boros's ship scales up to the complete destruction of City Z. However, I have a few issues with this:

1)20 psi value seems questionable, given that in this panel we see that many buildings under fire haven't collapsed.

However, this could be attributed to the drawing's conventions, as in other panels, buildings are destroyed. Do we have reason to believe that the entire territory of City A was damaged by the shelling?

2) Why are we even scaling Town A, with a diameter of 322 km, to City Z, with a diameter of 441 km?

3) In the image, we see that the cannon fire was aimed downwards, perpendicular to the line of fire of the ship. Thus, we have a firing line of 29 km (I'm not talking about the explosion diameter), which is negligible compared to the diameter of City A, which is 322 km (or 3,565 km, if we take the full diameter). In picture 1, I showed that a huge portion of the city remains outside the firing line and could have been damaged only by the resulting explosion.

If we assume that the entire area was destroyed during the initial bombardment, this means that a single bullet is capable of destroying an area from the edge of the firing line to the edge of the City. If we assume that Boros's ship was in the center of the city, then the blast radius of a single bullet is almost equal to the radius of the city itself.

3) However, there is another problem. Boros's ship repeatedly fired shells afterward.

As we can see in these panels, the craters are spread over a huge area around the ship, and there are clearly more than a hundred of them. Therefore, using a value of 132 is simply unsafe.

 

[Damage3245]

I have a small question regarding the High 6-C update and the calculation of Boros's ship. Boros's ship scales up to the complete destruction of City Z. However, I have a few issues with this:

1)20 psi value seems questionable, given that in this panel we see that many buildings under fire haven't collapsed.

However, this could be attributed to the drawing's conventions, as in other panels, buildings are destroyed. Do we have reason to believe that the entire territory of City A was damaged by the shelling?

2) Why are we even scaling Town A, with a diameter of 322 km, to City Z, with a diameter of 441 km?

The reason why it is being scaled to the destruction of City Z is this argument by MrTayman616 which I don't agree with.

 

[NikHelton]

The reason why it is being scaled to the destruction of City Z is this argument by MrTayman616 which I don't agree with.

This isn't even the biggest problem with this calculation.

Let's assume Boros's ship is in the center of a city. If the outermost bullet landed within a 15-kilometer radius of the city center, and the explosion reached the edge of the city 150 kilometers away, that means the bullet caused an explosion with a radius of 135 kilometers. Essentially, each bullet scales to the destruction of City A, which doesn't make sense.

 

[NikHelton]

The reason why it is being scaled to the destruction of City Z is this argument by MrTayman616 which I don't agree with.

Not to mention the fact that we see a huge number of craters outside the ship, which indicates multiple volleys. There could have been thousands of these shots.

 

[KLOL506]

@Migue79 @Therefir @Psychomaster35 @TheRustyOne @DMUA @Armorchompy @Damage3245

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Admittedly, calculating a combination of tensile strength, yield strength, and hardness is very complicated and difficult to properly index without the use of Calc Stacking. It obviously is a supermetal much tougher than any real world metal, but it's by no means unbreakable. And just because Character A destroyed larger portions than Character B isn't evidence character A's attack had higher energy yield, but more so just evidence character A was spreading energy out more in that scene.

But as for the outcome in this thread, unsure atm.

 

[NikHelton]

Admittedly, calculating a combination of tensile strength, yield strength, and hardness is very complicated and difficult to properly index without the use of Calc Stacking. It obviously is a supermetal much tougher than any real world metal, but it's by no means unbreakable. And just because Character A destroyed larger portions than Character B isn't evidence character A's attack had higher energy yield, but more so just evidence character A was spreading energy out more in that scene.

But as for the outcome in this thread, unsure atm.

I'm a little confused by your references to yield strength and metals. You're talking about the number of shells, which were actually much larger, and the fact that all of them were at the epicenter of the explosion.

 

[NikHelton]

The reason why it is being scaled to the destruction of City Z is this argument by MrTayman616 which I don't agree with.

What do you think about the other points?

 

[NikHelton]

Bump

 

[DarthSorox]

I agree, all of OPM's size calculations seem like a game of exaggeration.
I'm not sure the cities were even intended to be that large when these chapters were published.
Equating a bombing to a meteor strike seems like a desperate attempt to squeeze the maximum out of scaling.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do not know where the sizes came from, but I do OPM's earth was implied to be larger than our own. And that it consists of a Pangea like continent consisting of only 26 cities that are basically country sized cities roughly. Though the attack that destroyed the city, what was the reason for it being scaled to the durability of the overall ship again?

 

[NikHelton]

I do not know where the sizes came from, but I do OPM's earth was implied to be larger than our own. And that it consists of a Pangea like continent consisting of only 26 cities that are basically country sized cities roughly. Though the attack that destroyed the city, what was the reason for it being scaled to the durability of the overall ship again?

It doesn't scale with ship durability. It scales with meteor impact.

 

[NikHelton]

I do not know where the sizes came from, but I do OPM's earth was implied to be larger than our own. And that it consists of a Pangea like continent consisting of only 26 cities that are basically country sized cities roughly. Though the attack that destroyed the city, what was the reason for it being scaled to the durability of the overall ship again?

What do you think about the logic regarding the blast area? The separation would work if all 132 bullets were distributed throughout City A, but the first barrage targeted an area of 30 by 5 km. Two small explosions close together don't overlap and don't increase each other's blast radius. This essentially means that the projectile located at the edge of the ship hit almost the entire city.

 

[NikHelton]

Damage is so mysteriously silent and reads the replies without answering the most important point of this thread...

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not mysteriously silent... I just woke up. I'm not in a rush to comment here since I'm curious to see what other people have to say.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Damage is so mysteriously silent and reads the replies without answering the most important point of this thread...

He normally watches crts/threads like Kenjaku watching the culling games

 

[NikHelton]

He normally watches crts/threads like Kenjaku watching the culling games

The main puppeteer and manipulator of this story

 

[NikHelton]

I do not know where the sizes came from, but I do OPM's earth was implied to be larger than our own. And that it consists of a Pangea like continent consisting of only 26 cities that are basically country sized cities roughly. Though the attack that destroyed the city, what was the reason for it being scaled to the durability of the overall ship again?

Do you agree that in this case, each bullet should be scaled to completely destroy the city, or is that ultimately an outlier?

I also find it strange that such a concentration of High 6-C bombs left relatively intact debris. We see buildings standing on the sidewalk, and many floors have simply collapsed, but we have fairly intact parts of the building. We don't even have any discernible crater under the ship.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I do not know where the sizes came from, but I do OPM's earth was implied to be larger than our own. And that it consists of a Pangea like continent consisting of only 26 cities that are basically country sized cities roughly.

It's only accepted to be the same size as Earth right now, and the cities themselves aren't the size of countries, just the area they control (or something like that).

 

[Dalesean027]

I was asked to comment here for some reason so here we go.

Therefore, using a value of 132 is simply unsafe.

im not a OPM goons so where does this value come from to begin with anyways?

1)20 psi value seems questionable, given that in this panel we see that many buildings under fire haven't collapsed.

this is fine, there isn't even complete destruction after those bombardments so it should be tanked

2) Why are we even scaling Town A, with a diameter of 322 km, to City Z, with a diameter of 441 km?

same deal im not a OPM goons so I can't speak on why this is used to even be able to properly evaluate it

All and all if this was really done over the course of hundreds to thousands of blast overtime then they should divide the yield by that anyways since the true yield would be that of a single one of the explosives just because it has a bunch of them doesn't mean they all scale to the total destruction individually so that is flawed itself in this case especially considering how spaced out all of these craters are they ain't close enough to try and scale this as one total yield

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

im not a OPM goons so where does this value come from to begin with anyways?

I think 132 is supposed to be the amount of bullets used, but if it is, I have no idea where it comes from.

same deal im not a OPM goons so I can't speak on why this is used to even be able to properly evaluate it

Those are the accepted calculated sizes of some of the cities in One-Punch Man.

 

[Dalesean027]

I think 132 is supposed to be the amount of bullets used, but if it is, I have no idea where it comes from.

I get that its the amount of bullets used what I don't have context for is where that value comes from to be able to speak on it

Those are the accepted calculated sizes of some of the cities in One-Punch Man.

Same deal I get that its the calculated sizes of the cities but the question asked by OP is why they are scaling Town A to City Z in the calc if they already have two different accepted sizes

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I get that its the amount of bullets used what I don't have context for is where that value comes from to be able to speak on it

I don't know.

Same deal I get that its the calculated sizes of the cities but the question asked by OP is why they are scaling Town A to City Z in the calc if they already have two different accepted sizes

... I also don't know that, sorry.

 

[Dalesean027]

I don't know.

... I also don't know that, sorry.

all good, thanks for commenting regardless

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Ok so like where are the OPM supporters?

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Ok so like where are the OPM supporters?

OPM has supporters?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

OPM has supporters?

55th street man and baldy pfp. Occasional lost child pfps too

 

[Chariot190]

Divide by amount.
If they stated the whole of the city was destroyed, that's fine, it is what it is, it don't matter if the city was 5km or 500km, if they say it was razed as a whole, it counts. Plus like, would assume that a hypervelocity skyscraper sized shell would have a kill range past just its volume on impact, so it extending past the ship's hover zone is fine. The ship is also shown launching projectiles at angles and to the side of it, so that explains that anyway.

But, you still need to divide by the total amount, whether it was 132, or 132000, idk, but ya gotta divide it. It's not that complex just figure out the true value and chop it.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

This isn't a full answer, just some clarifications for everyone.
A: City A is bigger then City Z in the calc so the destruction of City Z is used as a lowball (I think) (idk where the 441KM diameter is coming from for City Z or the City A diameter of 322 KM from the OP)
(Calc in question: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kachon123/One-Punch_Man:_Cities_and_Supercontinent_Sizes)
B: City A is accepted to be destroyed.
C: The number of bullets is 132 due to one side having around 66 bullets counted, so the other side was doubled for 132 bullets
D: The value is divided. The entire destruction of City Z is rated at 55.60356368626555 Teratons, or 6-B+. This value is divided by 132 for 421.2391180024464 Gigatons, or High 6-C.

 

[NikHelton]

Divide by amount.
If they stated the whole of the city was destroyed, that's fine, it is what it is, it don't matter if the city was 5km or 500km, if they say it was razed as a whole, it counts. Plus like, would assume that a hypervelocity skyscraper sized shell would have a kill range past just its volume on impact, so it extending past the ship's hover zone is fine. The ship is also shown launching projectiles at angles and to the side of it, so that explains that anyway.

But, you still need to divide by the total amount, whether it was 132, or 132000, idk, but ya gotta divide it. It's not that complex just figure out the true value and chop it.

During the bombardment, the bullets were aimed downwards. They went sideways during the follow-up bombardment.

No, they're the size of a skyscraper, about 10 meters. The last time we counted them, they were 7-C or something like that.

You yourself said that the number of shells doesn't add up in power. And 1,000 7-C shells won't produce the output of a 7-B. This also works the other way around. The fact that 132 High 6-C shells landed close together won't increase the blast wave's area of destruction. We'll just get a much deeper crater, but the area of a High 6-C within that blast radius.

However, the damage radius is 10 times the blast radius. This means that the blast wave from each bullet covers at least 9/10 of the city's area. Otherwise, the entire city would never have been destroyed with such a concentrated focus in the center.

 

[NikHelton]

im not a OPM goons so where does this value come from to begin with anyways?

Large luminous dots that were counted during the shelling

ame deal im not a OPM goons so I can't speak on why this is used to even be able to properly evaluate it

The destruction of City A currently scales higher than that of City Z, even though City Z is 30% larger. This is because Boros' attack is considered the greatest disaster in history, putting it above the meteorite that was supposed to destroy City Z but never actually hit.

All and all if this was really done over the course of hundreds to thousands of blast overtime then they should divide the yield by that anyways since the true yield would be that of a single one of the explosives just because it has a bunch of them doesn't mean they all scale to the total destruction individually so that is flawed itself in this case especially considering how spaced out all of these craters are they ain't close enough to try and scale this as one total yield

If you take a 30 x 30 square and place ten small-area projectiles (3 meters in diameter) in a central 3 x 3 square, the blast radius won't be 30 meters. You'll simply create a deeper crater, but the shock wave will only extend 1.5 meters from the epicenter of the outermost blast.

 

[DarthSorox]

Bombardment's problem is also this:

1. If we assume the destruction was caused by KE, then that contradicts the fact that the KE of each shell was calculated years ago as 7-C. Even the craters from each shot range between 30 and 300 meters in diameter. This isn't even close to the destruction of High 6-C. We have nothing but the statement "The city was destroyed" and an unknown number of bullets.

2. If we assume the explosions are caused by the explosives in the shell, then when Tatsumaki deflected the shells back at the ship, the area of all the explosions didn't even cover the entire ship's area. Yes, some of the guns were destroyed, and it wasn't 132 bullets. It seems like around 30. But don't you find it strange that 30 High 6-C shells couldn't cover such a small area? The ship shouldn't have been visible behind the High 6-C explosions. Clearly, that shit isn't that powerful.

 

[Chariot190]

During the bombardment, the bullets were aimed downwards. They went sideways during the follow-up bombardment.

No, they're the size of a skyscraper, about 10 meters. The last time we counted them, they were 7-C or something like that.

Legit don't matter, you get the point and the point stays the same whether they're 1m or 100m. They're extreme velocity kinetic projectiles, in much the same way a small shotgun bullet can and will blow apart things around the area of contact, not just point of contact, so would these.

You yourself said that the number of shells doesn't add up in power.

So why are you repeating what I said as if I argued it?

And 1,000 7-C shells won't produce the output of a 7-B.

Uhm...
Yeah they would? Like, I think unironically? Isn't 7-B 1000x 7-C?
Unless you mean like an AP value? In which case yeah, kind of why i said divide the TOTAL yield by however many.

This also works the other way around. The fact that 132 High 6-C shells landed close together won't increase the blast wave's area of destruction. We'll just get a much deeper crater, but the area of a High 6-C within that blast radius.

Actually, not at all. If you fired a 10m shell at the ground that's like High 6-C, it's going to completely obliterate everything within dozens to hundreds of kilometers.
If you fired a bunch straight down, over an area, that just increases the footprint and expands the outer radius of the destruction.

Idk why you're acting like this is DBZ with ki control, it wouldn't be localized.

However, the damage radius is 10 times the blast radius.

What's the issue with that exactly? If that's how strong the bullets are, it's whatever, look up actual kinetic strikes or something, the high velocity projectiles tend to have a large area of effect. if it's ONLY 10 times, that actually isn't so bad.

This means that the blast wave from each bullet covers at least 9/10 of the city's area. Otherwise, the entire city would never have been destroyed with such a concentrated focus in the center.

Yeah so? If it happened, it happened. The fact it isn't even unrealistic for ultra velocity large projectiles to have massive area of effect on impact makes this argument a bit...?

But regardless, bro why tf ya arguing with ME.
I didn't even say half that, I just said divide, idc if it's dividing by 1 or 10000. Why ya acting like I said half that.

Do they say it destroyed ALL of that city? If yes, then it is what it is, you can't argue it, it's a stated fact, and unless they did a bunch of firing off panel, then all we have to work with is the amount we see.
If they didn't confirm it was the whole city, then lucky you, you're right, and we should only calc what we see destroyed on panel, nothing past that.
But regardless of which premise is correct, you divide by the amount shot, idc how many it shot, it could be 132 like the lad above said, or it could be like 13200, idk, whatever the actual value is, needs to be divided by.

 

[Damage3245]

The main reason i haven't got too involved with the thread at this point is that i was planning on making my own thread in the future to tackle this but of scaling.

 

[Therefir]

1)20 psi value seems questionable, given that in this panel we see that many buildings under fire haven't collapsed.

As you said, this is just probably a drawing error, as in many other panels, most buildings were straight up flattened, so 20 psi is okay to use.

Do we have reason to believe that the entire territory of City A was damaged by the shelling?

Yes, we have the statement that City A was destroyed in an instant. That statement alone is enough for an explosion calculation and is what we use for the meteor as well.

It's quite possible that in this panel, the bullets were shot in different directions as well and not just right below, we can't see it due to the angle and size of the scene, but I'm quite sure City A got destroyed here as it was confirmed it got destroyed in an instant.

Now, I have no idea where this 132 number came from, it's being used as if it was the maximum number of bullets in a single bombardment.

 

[NikHelton]

Actually, not at all. If you fired a 10m shell at the ground that's like High 6-C, it's going to completely obliterate everything within dozens to hundreds of kilometers.
If you fired a bunch straight down, over an area, that just increases the footprint and expands the outer radius of the destruction.

Why? They're not even aimed at one point to unite the shock wave.

What's the issue with that exactly? If that's how strong the bullets are, it's whatever, look up actual kinetic strikes or something, the high velocity projectiles tend to have a large area of effect. if it's ONLY 10 times, that actually isn't so bad

Sorox made good arguments about this:

"Bombardment's problem is also this:

1. If we assume the destruction was caused by KE, then that contradicts the fact that the KE of each shell was calculated years ago as 7-C. Even the craters from each shot range between 30 and 300 meters in diameter. This isn't even close to the destruction of High 6-C. We have nothing but the statement "The city was destroyed" and an unknown number of bullets.

2. If we assume the explosions are caused by the explosives in the shell, then when Tatsumaki deflected the shells back at the ship, the area of all the explosions didn't even cover the entire ship's area. Yes, some of the guns were destroyed, and it wasn't 132 bullets. It seems like around 30. But don't you find it strange that 30 High 6-C shells couldn't cover such a small area? The ship shouldn't have been visible behind the High 6-C explosions. Clearly, that shit isn't that powerful"

Bullet's KE, as calculated, was 7-C. The craters left by bullets range from tens to hundreds of meters, resulting in AP values from 8-B to High 7-C. This means that any other method of calculating individual bullet damage is limited to the Town level. The only way to obtain High 6-C results is to divide the city's destruction by the estimated number of projectiles. Even so, OPM city sizes appear significantly overestimated.

 

[Damage3245]

Also - this is a Questions & Answers thread. Have you initial questions been answered to your satisfaction @NikHelton ?

Now, I have no idea where this 132 number came from, it's being used as if it was the maximum number of bullets in a single bombardment.

We can see the number of lights on the side of the ship as the bullets are about to be fired, it's at least 66 bullets to the side most visibile to us so 132 in total to account for both sides of the ship - though the true number is likely even higher.

 

[Therefir]

There are many cannons underneath the ship, I don't think that number is accurate at all.

The value for destroying the city should only scale to the ship's full bombardment to be honest.

And if you want to scale someone from the bullets individually, either use their KE or calculate their destructive power through those craters.

 

[NikHelton]

Also - this is a Questions & Answers thread. Have you initial questions been answered to your satisfaction @NikHelton ?


We can see the number of lights on the side of the ship as the bullets are about to be fired, it's at least 66 bullets to the side most visibile to us so 132 in total to account for both sides of the ship - though the true number is likely even higher.

I'd also like to hear DarthSorox's response and my follow-up comment.

Crater calculations show 8-B/High 7-C.
The bullet's KE shows 7-C.
Doesn't this suggest there were many more bullets during the bombardment?

 

[Damage3245]

There are many cannons underneath the ship, I don't think that number is accurate at all.

The value for destroying the city should only scale to the ship's full bombardment to be honest.

And if you want to scale someone from the bullets individually, either use their KE or calculate their destructive power through those craters.

All of our current scaling for the high tier characters is based on a loose scaling chain right now of:

1 bullet = Hero Association headquarters durability = Metal Knight's AP = Elder Centipede's durability = everyone else's AP.

I plan on making a huge revision overhaul sometime within the next couple months to address this.