(Staff Only) Regarding Non-Physical Interaction and Intangibility/Incorporeality Part 2

[WeeklyBattles]

Continued from here as a staff thread as per request.

As discussed in the previous thread, there is an apparent issue with the intangibility/incorporeality and non-physical interaction pages, that being an assumption that there is a hierarchy of non-physical interaction and that interacting with 'better forms of intangibility' grants an automatic form of NPI for 'lesser forms of intangibility' by default. This was agreed to not be the case, but so this issue does not happen again, a note or revision should be added to the page/pages to clarify this.

Additionally, a proposal was brought up to add a new form of intangibility between types 1 and 2, or creating a sub-category for elemental intangibility due to not all elements being the same 'level' of intangible (ie. water/magma/sand vs air/fire vs light/shadow).

 

[Damage3245]

Do you have a specific proposal for what should be added to the Non-Physical Interaction page?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Do you have a specific proposal for what should be added to the Non-Physical Interaction page?

Just the addition of a clarification to the second paragraph, something along the lines of:

'Also of note, the various forms of intangibility/incorporeality are not automatically assumed to function under a hierarchy, an thus Non-Physical Interaction is to be primarily based on feats unless a verse depicts the contrary. For example, a character with feats of interacting with Type 2 (Immaterial) Intangibility is not assumed to be able to interact with Type 1 (Elemental) Intangibility if they do not have feats of doing so.'

This should work for now, though the page itself is super barebones and honestly could do with a full rework, but that would be better for its own thread.

 

[Vietthai96]

'Also of note, the various forms of intangibility/incorporeality are not automatically assumed to function under a hierarchy, an thus Non-Physical Interaction is to be primarily based on feats unless a verse depicts the contrary. For example, a character with feats of interacting with Type 2 (Immaterial) Intangibility is not assumed to be able to interact with Type 1 (Elemental) Intangibility if they do not have feats of doing so.'

I have a question: is this also extend to other forms of incorporeality, such as abstractions, nonexistence, etc...

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I have a question: is this also extend to other forms of incorporeality, such as abstractions, nonexistence, etc...

It would yes, though thats part of the issue as well, for some reason those types arent included on our profiles. The closest thing the current Intangibility page gets is Spatial intangibility...

 

[Vietthai96]

It would yes, though thats part of the issue as well, for some reason those types arent included on our profiles. The closest thing the current Intangibility page gets is Spatial intangibility...

I made my question because from what you wrote, it could also mean that character who could interact with, for example, concept or information type 2, will not be able to interact with elemental intangibility or other forms of intangibility/incorporeality without feat/statement. Of course currently we don't assume that character can interact with nonexistence without feat even if said character can interact with concept, though there are still some form of incorporeality hierarchy, such as if you can interact with concept, you should be able to interact with soul or mind, or consciousness even if you didn't have feat

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So seperating different levels of elemental intangibility due to 4 states of matter (As salted compounds such as dirt/sand/dust are still solid but giant piles of tiny particles), and there's liquid, gas, and plasma. Then Light/Shadow (Well Light seems like the most advanced level of elemental intangibility being made of pure photons, but darkness would scientifically reach immaterial category; though the way verses treat concepts like that are a different story)

 

[Vietthai96]

Light and Darkness/Shadow are completely different scenarios; either we are talking about scientific Light which is photon, Darkness is the absence of Light which is immaterial. Or we are talking about supernatural/magical light and shadow (darkness) which again a completely different territory

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I made my question because from what you wrote, it could also mean that character who could interact with, for example, concept or information type 2, will not be able to interact with elemental intangibility or other forms of intangibility/incorporeality without feat/statement. Of course currently we don't assume that character can interact with nonexistence without feat even if said character can interact with concept, though there are still some form of incorporeality hierarchy, such as if you can interact with concept, you should be able to interact with soul or mind, or consciousness even if you didn't have feat

Is that assumed to be the default though? Because 'concept' as a category of NPI can be anything from interacting with the concept of water to interacting with the concept of abstract nonexistence.

IMO it would still be feat-based, just with the character having multiple types based on what theyve shown to be able to interact with

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So separating different levels of elemental intangibility due to 4 states of matter (As salted compounds such as dirt/sand/dust are still solid but giant piles of tiny particles), and there's liquid, gas, and plasma. Then Light/Shadow (Well Light seems like the most advanced level of elemental intangibility being made of pure photons, but darkness would scientifically reach immaterial category; though the way verses treat concepts like that are a different story)

More or less yes

 

[Vietthai96]

Is that assumed to be the default though? Because 'concept' as a category of NPI can be anything from interacting with the concept of water to interacting with the concept of abstract nonexistence.

?, concept is concept, concept of abstract nonexistence??, it is nonexistent

if you can interact with abstract concept, the concept of water or concept of apple doesn't really matter

Is that assumed to be the default though?

it is, if you can interact with concept, the of course you should be able to interact with soul, mind or consciousness. as they are "less incorporeal" compare to something as concept or nonexistent

 

[WeeklyBattles]

?, concept is concept, concept of abstract nonexistence??, it is nonexistent

if you can interact with abstract concept, the concept of water or concept of apple doesn't really matter

it is, if you can interact with concept, the of course you should be able to interact with soul, mind or consciousness. as they are "less incorporeal" compare to something as concept or nonexistent

At that point wouldnt it be less non-physical interaction and more just conceptual manipulation? Like correct me if im wrong here but last I checked its not assumed that every character with conceptual manipulation is able to just physically grab abstract concepts as though they were solid objects.

 

[Vietthai96]

At that point wouldnt it be less non-physical interaction and more just conceptual manipulation?

It should be noted that the ability to interact with abstract entities (Type 1) directly as if they were physical objects is usually considered as non-physical interaction, and does not grant the user the ability to manipulate concepts in other contexts.

From Conceptual Manipulation page, if you can physically punch or kick concept, then it is just Concept NPI, not Conceptual Manipulation, it was revised long ago. The same as be said to other interaction with other forms of incorporeality such as interact with Soul, Mind, Consciousness, Information, Nonexistence,

Like correct me if im wrong here but last I checked its not assumed that every character with conceptual manipulation is able to just physically grab abstract concepts as though they were solid objects.

if they have Conceptual Manipulation, Concept NPI is irrelevant as they can just directly interact and manipulate the concept itself; there is no need to bother to "touch" it

 

[WeeklyBattles]

From Conceptual Manipulation page, if you can physically punch or kick concept, then it is just Concept NPI, not Conceptual Manipulation, it was revised long ago. The same as be said to other interaction with other forms of incorporeality such as interact with Soul, Mind, Consciousness, Information, Nonexistence,

if they have Conceptual Manipulation, Concept NPI is irrelevant as they can just directly interact and manipulate the concept itself; there is no need to bother to "touch" it

That...feels a bit vague, but alright.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT @Agnaa @Ultima_Reality @Executor_N0 @GrathOfLux

What do you think about thIs?

 

[Planck69]

At that point wouldnt it be less non-physical interaction and more just conceptual manipulation? Like correct me if im wrong here but last I checked its not assumed that every character with conceptual manipulation is able to just physically grab abstract concepts as though they were solid objects.

Not only is there's a lot of overlap between characters that can physically interact with concepts and those that can directly manipulate them, but if one can directly manipulate concepts and change them then discussing whether or not they can touch those specific concepts becomes superfluous.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not only is there's a lot of overlap between characters that can physically interact with concepts and those that can directly manipulate them, but if one can directly manipulate concepts and change them then discussing whether or not they can touch those specific concepts becomes superfluous.

Yes, I already agreed with this

 

[Zeldris98764]

(permission from Ant for one post)

Vietthai brings up a good point. We do operate with an implicit hierarchy for certain types of incorporeality, especially when dealing with metaphysical aspects. Trying to impose a blanket "no hierarchy ever" rule is going to cause more problems than it solves.

Weekly's proposed text is a good start, but it should be refined. The core issue is the conflation of physical-based intangibility with metaphysical incorporeality.

'Also of note, the various forms of intangibility/incorporeality are not automatically assumed to function under a hierarchy, an thus Non-Physical Interaction is to be primarily based on feats unless a verse depicts the contrary. For example, a character with feats of interacting with Type 2 (Immaterial) Intangibility is not assumed to be able to interact with Type 1 (Elemental) Intangibility if they do not have feats of doing so.'

This is fine for the listed types of Intangibility (Elemental, Immaterial, Phasing, Spatial). These are different mechanisms, and being able to hit a ghost (Immaterial) doesn't mean you can punch fire (Elemental) or someone in another dimension (Spatial). The logic holds.

However, as noted, this falls apart when we get to abstract/metaphysical beings.

though there are still some form of incorporeality hierarchy, such as if you can interact with concept, you should be able to interact with soul or mind, or consciousness even if you didn't have feat

This is consistent with how we handle the Order of Aspects. Interacting with a more fundamental layer of reality (like a concept) should grant you interaction with less fundamental ones that are dependent on it (like a soul or mind). We shouldn't throw that out.

I'd propose to split the clarification:
1. For physical-based Intangibility: Add Weekly's proposed text. Clarify that different mechanisms of becoming physically intangible (elemental transformation, dimensional shifting, phasing, etc.) are distinct and require separate feats for interaction.

2. For metaphysical Incorporeality: Add a separate note explaining that a hierarchy can exist based on the verse's Order of Aspects. Interacting with a more fundamental aspect (e.g., Information Manipulation Type 2) logically allows interaction with things built upon that information (minds, souls, etc.). However, this metaphysical interaction does not grant NPI against physical-based intangibility by default. You can't punch fire just because you can punch a concept.

Regarding the second point, I agree with splitting Elemental Intangibility. Treating sand, air, and light as the same "type" is too simplistic. Sub-categories based on states of matter (particulate, liquid, gas, plasma, energy/photons) would add much-needed clarity.

 

[KLOL506]

@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Mr. Bambu @Agnaa @Elizhaa @LephyrTheRevanchist @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @Just_a_Random_Butler @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Celestial_Pegasus @GrathOfLux @Everything12 Input here would be appreciated

 

[WeeklyBattles]

(permission from Ant for one post)

Vietthai brings up a good point. We do operate with an implicit hierarchy for certain types of incorporeality, especially when dealing with metaphysical aspects. Trying to impose a blanket "no hierarchy ever" rule is going to cause more problems than it solves.

Weekly's proposed text is a good start, but it should be refined. The core issue is the conflation of physical-based intangibility with metaphysical incorporeality.

This is fine for the listed types of Intangibility (Elemental, Immaterial, Phasing, Spatial). These are different mechanisms, and being able to hit a ghost (Immaterial) doesn't mean you can punch fire (Elemental) or someone in another dimension (Spatial). The logic holds.

However, as noted, this falls apart when we get to abstract/metaphysical beings.

This is consistent with how we handle the Order of Aspects. Interacting with a more fundamental layer of reality (like a concept) should grant you interaction with less fundamental ones that are dependent on it (like a soul or mind). We shouldn't throw that out.

I'd propose to split the clarification:
1. For physical-based Intangibility: Add Weekly's proposed text. Clarify that different mechanisms of becoming physically intangible (elemental transformation, dimensional shifting, phasing, etc.) are distinct and require separate feats for interaction.

2. For metaphysical Incorporeality: Add a separate note explaining that a hierarchy can exist based on the verse's Order of Aspects. Interacting with a more fundamental aspect (e.g., Information Manipulation Type 2) logically allows interaction with things built upon that information (minds, souls, etc.). However, this metaphysical interaction does not grant NPI against physical-based intangibility by default. You can't punch fire just because you can punch a concept.

Regarding the second point, I agree with splitting Elemental Intangibility. Treating sand, air, and light as the same "type" is too simplistic. Sub-categories based on states of matter (particulate, liquid, gas, plasma, energy/photons) would add much-needed clarity.

Agreed, and my apologies for the misunderstanding, I wasnt fully aware of the order of aspects used for metaphysical incorporeality and the subsequent NPI for interacting with it

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Would we classify fire as a gas, a plasma, or an energy?

 

[Planck69]

(permission from Ant for one post)

Vietthai brings up a good point. We do operate with an implicit hierarchy for certain types of incorporeality, especially when dealing with metaphysical aspects. Trying to impose a blanket "no hierarchy ever" rule is going to cause more problems than it solves.

Weekly's proposed text is a good start, but it should be refined. The core issue is the conflation of physical-based intangibility with metaphysical incorporeality.

This is fine for the listed types of Intangibility (Elemental, Immaterial, Phasing, Spatial). These are different mechanisms, and being able to hit a ghost (Immaterial) doesn't mean you can punch fire (Elemental) or someone in another dimension (Spatial). The logic holds.

However, as noted, this falls apart when we get to abstract/metaphysical beings.

This is consistent with how we handle the Order of Aspects. Interacting with a more fundamental layer of reality (like a concept) should grant you interaction with less fundamental ones that are dependent on it (like a soul or mind). We shouldn't throw that out.

I'd propose to split the clarification:
1. For physical-based Intangibility: Add Weekly's proposed text. Clarify that different mechanisms of becoming physically intangible (elemental transformation, dimensional shifting, phasing, etc.) are distinct and require separate feats for interaction.

2. For metaphysical Incorporeality: Add a separate note explaining that a hierarchy can exist based on the verse's Order of Aspects. Interacting with a more fundamental aspect (e.g., Information Manipulation Type 2) logically allows interaction with things built upon that information (minds, souls, etc.). However, this metaphysical interaction does not grant NPI against physical-based intangibility by default. You can't punch fire just because you can punch a concept.

Regarding the second point, I agree with splitting Elemental Intangibility. Treating sand, air, and light as the same "type" is too simplistic. Sub-categories based on states of matter (particulate, liquid, gas, plasma, energy/photons) would add much-needed clarity.

Honestly, good call but I feel like we might need a category between natural elemental intangibility like water, sand etc. and stuff like light, space, etc.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Honestly, good call but I feel like we might need a category between natural elemental intangibility like water, sand etc. and stuff like light, space, etc.

Working on it

Currently have a total of 9 forms of elemental intangibility

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Elemental Intangibility is the ability to transform into various elements, substances, and/or states of matter to achieve a form of pseudo-intangibility. Rather than being truly intangible, Elemental Intangibility involves the user possessing the ability to transform their body into a specific element in order to avoid physical damage as attacks merely disperse the user's body or pass harmlessly through it without truly damaging them. Unlike true intangibility, Elemental Intangibility does not grant the ability to pass unimpeded through solid matter, though depending on the element the user can turn into they still may be able to move through certain materials. Otherwise, they are assumed to physically exist within the physical world and can be damaged as such, and depending on the element, Non-Physical Interaction may not be needed in order to physically interact with or damage them.

• Type 1 (Solids):The user is able to become intangible by turning into a mass of solid matter or solid particles, such as sand, ice, paper, or plants, or even non-natural materials such as nanomachines or small creatures such as insects. Due to still being made of solid physical matter, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility can still usually be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Crocodile, Sandman, Kizaru, Konan
• Type 2 (Semi-Solids/Semi-Liquids): The user is able to become intangible by turning into a mass of semi-solid or semi-liquid matter, such as mud, lava/magma, liquid metal, or any other non-Newtonian substance. Rather than acting as a true liquid or true solid, this intangibility exists in-between the two. This is primarily determined by its Viscosity Value, with anything with a factor of 10^1 or higher falling into this category rather than a true liquid. Due to being primarily or partially made of physical matter, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility can still usually be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Akainu, Charlotte Katakuri, T-1000
• Type 3 (Liquids): The user is able to become intangible by turning into liquid matter, such as water, blood, or any other Newtonian liquid. This is primarily determined by its Viscosity Value, with anything with a factor of 10^0 or lower falling into this category. Due to being partially made of physical matter, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility can still usually be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Juvia Lockser
• Type 4 (Aerosols): The user is able to become intangible by turning into state of semi-gaeous, semi-liquid or semi-solid liquid matter, such as mist/fog, smoke, dust, or ash. Rather than acting as a true liquid or true solid, this intangibility exists in-between a liquid and gaseous state as macroscopic to microscopic particles of liquid or solid matter suspended within a gas. This is primarily determined by its Particulate Matter scale, with anything with a scale of 10 micrometers or less, but above the scale of molecules, falling into this category rather than a true gas. Characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Smoker, Suika Ibuki
• Type 5 (Gas):The user is able to become intangible by turning into state of true gas, such as steam or fire, or any non-specific matter on a molecular or atomic scale. Users of this type of intangibility differ from Type 4 due to existing at a much smaller state of matter, being intangible on a molecular or atomic scale rather than just microscopic. Characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction. Characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Portgas D. Ace, Caesar Clown
• Type 6 (Plasma):The user is able to become intangible by turning into plasma, the most common example being lightning. This state of matter exists on a similar scale to Type 5, with the major difference being its existence in a higher energy state than gas, consisting primarily of charged particles (ions and/or electrons) rather than neutral particles.
  • Examples: Enel, Raiden Shogun, Electro
• Type 7 (Sub-Atomic Particles):The user is able to become intangible by breaking themselves down into a particle state, existing as sub-atomic particles such as electrons and photons. Characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Kizaru, Delsin Rowe
• Type 8 (Energy):The user is able to become intangible by becoming pure energy. Due to completely lacking any form of physical matter, and existing solely as an energy state in the physical world, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by any physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction. As a result of this, this form of intangibility is nearly identical mechanically to Immaterial intangibility, and often overlaps with it.
  • Examples:
• Type 9 (Immaterial):The user is able to become intangible by turning into an element which has no natural energy and no physical presence in the material world, the most common example being shadows/darkness. Due to completely lacking any form of physical matter, as well as lacking an energy state in the physical world, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by any physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction. As a result of this, this form of intangibility is nearly identical mechanically to Immaterial intangibility, and often overlaps with it.
  • Examples: Rogue Cheney

 

[Damage3245]

I think that first Kizaru in type 1 is meant to be Kuzan.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I think that first Kizaru in type 1 is meant to be Kuzan.

Ye, sorry

If there are any other examples to fill out the other types i'll gladly add them

 

[Vietthai96]

• Type 8 (Energy):The user is able to become intangible by becoming pure energy. Due to completely lacking any form of physical matter, and existing solely as an energy state in the physical world, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by any physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction. As a result of this, this form of intangibility is nearly identical mechanically to Immaterial intangibility, and often overlaps with it.
  • Examples:
• Type 9 (Immaterial):The user is able to become intangible by turning into an element which has no natural energy and no physical presence in the material world, the most common example being shadows/darkness. Due to completely lacking any form of physical matter, as well as lacking an energy state in the physical world, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by any physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction. As a result of this, this form of intangibility is nearly identical mechanically to Immaterial intangibility, and often overlaps with it.

These two types are overlapping, so you should merge them into a single immaterial intangibility

Type 8 (Immaterial):The user is able to become intangible by becoming something that completely lack material compositions such as immaterial elements or pure energy. Due to completely lacking any form of physical matter, and existing solely as an immaterial state in the physical world, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by any physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction. As a result of this, this form of intangibility is nearly identical mechanically to Incorporeality, and often overlaps with it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Elemental Intangibility is the ability to transform into various elements, substances, and/or states of matter to achieve a form of pseudo-intangibility. Rather than being truly intangible, Elemental Intangibility involves the user possessing the ability to transform their body into a specific element in order to avoid physical damage as attacks merely disperse the user's body or pass harmlessly through it without truly damaging them. Unlike true intangibility, Elemental Intangibility does not grant the ability to pass unimpeded through solid matter, though depending on the element the user can turn into they still may be able to move through certain materials. Otherwise, they are assumed to physically exist within the physical world and can be damaged as such, and depending on the element, Non-Physical Interaction may not be needed in order to physically interact with or damage them.

• Type 1 (Solids):The user is able to become intangible by turning into a mass of solid matter or solid particles, such as sand, ice, paper, or plants, or even non-natural materials such as nanomachines or small creatures such as insects. Due to still being made of solid physical matter, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility can still usually be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Crocodile, Sandman, Kizaru, Konan
• Type 2 (Semi-Solids/Semi-Liquids): The user is able to become intangible by turning into a mass of semi-solid or semi-liquid matter, such as mud, lava/magma, liquid metal, or any other non-Newtonian substance. Rather than acting as a true liquid or true solid, this intangibility exists in-between the two. This is primarily determined by its Viscosity Value, with anything with a factor of 10^1 or higher falling into this category rather than a true liquid. Due to being primarily or partially made of physical matter, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility can still usually be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Akainu, Charlotte Katakuri, T-1000
• Type 3 (Liquids): The user is able to become intangible by turning into liquid matter, such as water, blood, or any other Newtonian liquid. This is primarily determined by its Viscosity Value, with anything with a factor of 10^0 or lower falling into this category. Due to being partially made of physical matter, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility can still usually be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Juvia Lockser
• Type 4 (Aerosols): The user is able to become intangible by turning into state of semi-gaeous, semi-liquid or semi-solid liquid matter, such as mist/fog, smoke, dust, or ash. Rather than acting as a true liquid or true solid, this intangibility exists in-between a liquid and gaseous state as macroscopic to microscopic particles of liquid or solid matter suspended within a gas. This is primarily determined by its Particulate Matter scale, with anything with a scale of 10 micrometers or less, but above the scale of molecules, falling into this category rather than a true gas. Characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Smoker, Suika Ibuki
• Type 5 (Gas):The user is able to become intangible by turning into state of true gas, such as steam or fire, or any non-specific matter on a molecular or atomic scale. Users of this type of intangibility differ from Type 4 due to existing at a much smaller state of matter, being intangible on a molecular or atomic scale rather than just microscopic. Characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction. Characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Portgas D. Ace, Caesar Clown
• Type 6 (Plasma):The user is able to become intangible by turning into plasma, the most common example being lightning. This state of matter exists on a similar scale to Type 5, with the major difference being its existence in a higher energy state than gas, consisting primarily of charged particles (ions and/or electrons) rather than neutral particles.
  • Examples: Enel, Raiden Shogun, Electro
• Type 7 (Sub-Atomic Particles):The user is able to become intangible by breaking themselves down into a particle state, existing as sub-atomic particles such as electrons and photons. Characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction.
  • Examples: Kizaru, Delsin Rowe
• Type 8 (Energy):The user is able to become intangible by becoming pure energy. Due to completely lacking any form of physical matter, and existing solely as an energy state in the physical world, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by any physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction. As a result of this, this form of intangibility is nearly identical mechanically to Immaterial intangibility, and often overlaps with it.
  • Examples:
• Type 9 (Immaterial):The user is able to become intangible by turning into an element which has no natural energy and no physical presence in the material world, the most common example being shadows/darkness. Due to completely lacking any form of physical matter, as well as lacking an energy state in the physical world, characters with this type of Elemental Intangibility usually cannot be damaged by any physical means without the use of Non-Physical Interaction. As a result of this, this form of intangibility is nearly identical mechanically to Immaterial intangibility, and often overlaps with it.
  • Examples: Rogue Cheney

Looks pretty well laid out, but wouldn't atomic particles be between plasma and sub-atomic? As contrary to popular belief, being a state of gas or plasma isn't being fully atomized, only that atoms have some distance but still retain some degree of fusion to where they still form an element or molecular compound.

These two types are overlapping, so you should merge them into a single immaterial intangibility

Pure energy is technically still mass. I mean, in some cases, there exists spiritual forms of energy that would qualify as Immaterial. But raw physical energy that is form when converting mass into pure energy through mass-energy conversion isn't quite "Immaterial" in that sense.

 

[Vietthai96]

Pure energy is technically still mass. I mean, in some cases, there exists spiritual forms of energy that would qualify as Immaterial. But raw physical energy that is form when converting mass into pure energy through mass-energy conversion isn't quite "Immaterial" in that sense.

i merge the two types based on Weekly draft, cause from his draft, the energy part is completely immaterial. if we talking about physical energy, we need another section for it i guess

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

i merge the two types based on Weekly draft, cause from his draft, the energy part is completely immaterial. if we talking about physical energy, we need another section for it i guess

Well yeah, I would say Type 8 would need better description to say it is purely mass to energy conversion as opposed to the "Lack of physical matter" description.

 

[Vietthai96]

Since there is Sub-Atomic, probably should have Macro-Quantum and Quantum level too i guess

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well yeah, I would say Type 8 would need better description to say it is purely mass to energy conversion as opposed to the "Lack of physical matter" description.

i merge the two types based on Weekly draft, cause from his draft, the energy part is completely immaterial. if we talking about physical energy, we need another section for it i guess

How should I reword it then?

 

[Planck69]

The page layout is solid enough but do we really need that many subcategories though? Like, I feel like Aerosols and Gases can just be one tier. Same with solids and semi-solids.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The page layout is solid enough but do we really need that many subcategories though? Like, I feel like Aerosols and Gases can just be one tier. Same with solids and semi-solids.

Depends on how thorough we want it to be, i can merge those if yall think we dont need them but there is a noted difference between those states of matter

 

[WeeklyBattles]

WeeklyBattles/sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

Finished the physical intangibilities, once we get the elemental stuff cleared up we can do the metaphysical intangibilities

 

[Vietthai96]

WeeklyBattles/sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

Finished the physical intangibilities, once we get the elemental stuff cleared up we can do the metaphysical intangibilities

What about my suggestion, also this

Since there is Sub-Atomic, probably should have Macro-Quantum and Quantum level too i guess

And of course from DDM comment we should separate energy, physical, natural energy and supernatural energy that is completely incorporeal

Also Metaphysical Intangibility isn't needed, Metaphysical is Incorporeal by default, which in turn make them Intangible by default, and it is already strictly require NPI to interact

 

[FinePoint]

I don't think we should necessarily take a hard stance on whether or not one type of NPI might imply another, spare that we only list shown examples on the profile.
I'd prefer if people hashed out the specifics contextually in a versus thread; though either way the page needs to be clear that there's not necessarily a hierarchy.

Splitting off Elemental Intangibility more was always a good idea.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

What are the staff conclusions and consensus here so far?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sorry I havent been active much, had some irl issues ive been dealing with. I will finish the rework as soon as i can