Seal vs Kaneki

[Arkenis]

Seal vs Kaneki

Equal Speed
Post Dragon Kaneki
500m range

Seal:
Kaneki: Nikhelton, DarthSorox, Foriaa

 

[NikHelton]

As I understand it, Seal simply seals Kaneki. What conditions does she need for that?

 

[Arkenis]

The bandages can absorb anything into them, there's no condition other than that. Kaneki just has to dodge to avoid them. They can be destroyed as well. Seal also at the start doesn't understand how sealing works for humans and would initially go for the heart, something Kaneki can survive and regenerate from.

 

[NikHelton]

The bandages can absorb anything into them, there's no condition other than that. Kaneki just has to dodge to avoid them. They can be destroyed as well. Seal also at the start doesn't understand how sealing works for humans and would initially go for the heart, something Kaneki can survive and regenerate from.

Can you describe the wincon of both of them in more detail? Can Seal seal Kaneki by touching his kagune? Can Kaneki decapitate an opponent before they can do anything?

 

[Arkenis]

Can you describe the wincon of both of them in more detail? Can Seal seal Kaneki by touching his kagune? Can Kaneki decapitate an opponent before they can do anything?

Idk who wins rn. But nah, Kaneki can just draw his kagune back or jump back. And nah Kaneki can't decap him before he just puts up defense.

 

[NikHelton]

What exactly does Seal's defense look like?

 

[Arkenis]

It's on page.

 

[NikHelton]

The profile doesn't fully describe his abilities. Plus, there are a lot of abilities related to his verse. Estimating his strength seems difficult.

 

[Arkenis]

The profile doesn't fully describe his abilities. Plus, there are a lot of abilities related to his verse. Estimating his strength seems difficult.

What's not explained? What specifically are you looking for?

 

[NikHelton]

What's not explained? What specifically are you looking for?

His tactics, abilities, and vulnerabilities.

Does he need to touch his heart specifically, or can it be any part of his body, including his kagune?
How will he defend against Kaneki's kagune?

 

[Arkenis]

His tactics, abilities, and vulnerabilities.

Его тактика в целом показана на сканах на странице. Он атакует бинтами, а также пытается запечатать противника или использует свои запечатанные способности. Все его способности также указаны на странице. У него немного уязвимостей — можешь посмотреть раздел с его слабыми сторонами.

Does he need to touch his heart specifically, or can it be any part of his body, including his kagune?

Нет, я уже отвечал на это раньше. Нет, должна быть вся часть тела.

 

[NikHelton]

Его тактика в целом показана на сканах на странице. Он атакует бинтами, а также пытается запечатать противника или использует свои запечатанные способности. Все его способности также указаны на странице. У него немного уязвимостей — можешь посмотреть раздел с его слабыми сторонами.

It simply shows him cutting Andy open and exploding him from the inside.
Will he try to seal Kaneki from the very first seconds, or will he just start the fight? How much will he use explosions? How will Kaneki cope with the possibility of being sealed?

Нет, я уже отвечал на это раньше. Нет, должна быть вся часть тела.

"No, it has to be a whole body part."

Why isn't a kagune considered a body part?
If the bandage touches Kaneki's arm or cuts his body, will Kaneki still be sealed?
Can Kaneki escape after being sealed?

 

[Arkenis]

It simply shows him cutting Andy open and exploding him from the inside.
Will he try to seal Kaneki from the very first seconds, or will he just start the fight? How much will he use explosions? How will Kaneki cope with the possibility of being sealed?

Yeah thats ways of fighting for him. Yeah, but it won't work at first because he can't seal humans through their heart, so he'll try sealing them whole. He rarely uses explosions. Kaneki can just dodge the bandages to not get sealed.

"No, it has to be a whole body part."

Why isn't a kagune considered a body part?
If the bandage touches Kaneki's arm or cuts his body, will Kaneki still be sealed?
Can Kaneki escape after being sealed?

No the whole body. The entire body has to be sealed. My translation was wrong my fault. And no if he just touches or cuts it does not seal. Kaneki can try escaping while being sealed.

 

[Foriaa]

How does Seal deal with attacks from blind spot?

 

[Arkenis]

Just sense it or cut the entire area with his bandages.

 

[Foriaa]

Just sense it or cut the entire area with his bandages.

Has he fought someone that can grow stronger mid fight?

 

[Arkenis]

That's kinda his whole thing, all Negators can grow in power and abilities like Andy. He's never been in a situation like it, but given he's fought the strongest Negators and can always amp himself, it shouldn't be an issue mid fight.

 

[NikHelton]

Well, based on what I've seen in the profiles, Kaneki seems to be the more skilled fighter. Yes, Seal has good Analytical Prediction, but so does Kaneki, and Kaneki resists Analytical Prediction, and his kagune can freely change shape, density, and trajectory.

Whichever LS key you consider, he has the advantage. With close AP and LS scaling, he can physically tear apart those bandages if they bind him.

Based on Seal's profile, he tries to explode an opponent with regeneration. Kaneki will survive this, and this will lead to a wild RE spike, allowing him to gain an AP advantage.

Kaneki also transitions to Kakuja Mode fairly quickly, gaining a blitz amp and becoming faster as he takes damage. This, coupled with his instinctive reactions, heightened senses, acrobatics, and skill, will allow him to evade Seal's bandages. Urie's instinctive reactions and skill were enough to react to an opponent who moved faster than his perception could process. Characters like Suzuya and Yomo also coped with the opponent's speed, seemingly teleporting behind them.

Touching Kaneki's kagune will also be dangerous for Seal, as it causes poisoning, and the mouths on his kagune will bite off chunks of Seal's flesh.

My vote is for Kaneki

 

[Arkenis]

Well, based on what I've seen in the profiles, Kaneki seems to be the more skilled fighter. Yes, Seal has good Analytical Prediction, but so does Kaneki, and Kaneki resists Analytical Prediction, and his kagune can freely change shape, density, and trajectory.

Nah, Seal's analytical prediction is far better than Kaneki's. Kaneki's predicting against skilled fighters for sure, but Seal can do it against much more experienced fighters than Kaneki has. It's a whole hierarchy of how predictable fighters can be and Seal would be at the top of it like Andy, Shen doesn't know what Andy will attack with and wonders if he'll go left or right.

Plus Seal resists analytical prediction on page. I think Kaneki's greatest prediction feats in this key is against Kamishiro, someone he fought prior and the guy held back in their second fight.

Based on Seal's profile, he tries to explode an opponent with regeneration. Kaneki will survive this, and this will lead to a wild RE spike, allowing him to gain an AP advantage.

Can't go past H7A so he'll just be at most 2x stronger since Seal already scales above the 1.6gigatons amount.

Kaneki also transitions to Kakuja Mode fairly quickly, gaining a blitz amp and becoming faster as he takes damage. This, coupled with his instinctive reactions, heightened senses, acrobatics, and skill, will allow him to evade Seal's bandages. Urie's instinctive reactions and skill were enough to react to an opponent who moved faster than his perception could process. Characters like Suzuya and Yomo also coped with the opponent's speed, seemingly teleporting behind them.

What if he just goes intangible after getting blitzed and tries to seal the entire area?

Touching Kaneki's kagune will also be dangerous for Seal, as it causes poisoning, and the mouths on his kagune will bite off chunks of Seal's flesh.

Can I see when that happened? If it's a liquid poison he can just push it off himself or if its gas he can just push it off.

Lastly he could just try bfring Kaneki as well. There's also his type 4 immo.

 

[NikHelton]

Nah, Seal's analytical prediction is far better than Kaneki's. Kaneki's predicting against skilled fighters for sure, but Seal can do it against much more experienced fighters than Kaneki has. It's a whole hierarchy of how predictable fighters can be and Seal would be at the top of it like Andy, Shen doesn't know what Andy will attack with and wonders if he'll go left or right.

Plus Seal resists analytical prediction on page. I think Kaneki's greatest prediction feats in this key is against Kamishiro, someone he fought prior and the guy held back in their second fight

Seal will still have problems with the kagune due to the arguments above.

Can't go past H7A so he'll just be at most 2x stronger since Seal already scales above the 1.6gigatons amount.

As far as I know, characters can grow without limit within their key.

That's why a character with an 800 ton value and a character with a long chain of scaling and one-shots equal to the same 800 ton value will have an AP advantage, even though it would seem the maximum advantage should be 1.24x.
At least, I've heard these arguments many times when discussing AD. But we can contact the moderators to clarify this issue within the site rules.

What if he just goes intangible after getting blitzed and tries to seal the entire area?

He might be able to dodge the attack, but how does his intangibility work? I saw him turn into smoke, but what if Kaneki activates a shockwave that disperses Seal within a 200-meter radius? Will he be able to recover from that?
The shockwave will also allow Kaneki to avoid being entangled in bandages thanks to his superior LS.

Can I see when that happened? If it's a liquid poison he can just push it off himself or if its gas he can just push it off.

I'm talking about kagune poison

Lastly he could just try bfring Kaneki as well. There's also his type 4 immo.

In that case, how can Kaneki kill him?

 

[Arkenis]

At least, I've heard these arguments many times when discussing AD. But we can contact the moderators to clarify this issue within the site rules.

Yeah that's fine. I've seen the opposite a few times.

He might be able to dodge the attack, but how does his intangibility work? I saw him turn into smoke, but what if Kaneki activates a shockwave that disperses Seal within a 200-meter radius? Will he be able to recover from that?
The shockwave will also allow Kaneki to avoid being entangled in bandages thanks to his superior LS.

Yeah I don't see why not. Shockwaves don't destroy gas.

I'm talking about kagune poison

Oh why would that even work? And he can just remove it. He's also just made out of bandages, I don't think it'll have some affect.

In that case, how can Kaneki kill him?

Kill before Seal decides to BFR. And immo 4 is dependent on the God of the verse. It's pretty unknown how long the resurrection takes but shouldn't be longer than a day.

 

[NikHelton]

Yeah I don't see why not. Shockwaves don't destroy gas

Reassembling yourself after your body was scattered across a thousand square meters is quite a feat. Remember the battle between Darkshine and ENO? ENO was defeated because his body was scattered too much.
Not every Logia user can reassemble their body on such a scale. If Seal has such feats, he can handle it, but otherwise, it will be a problem.

Oh why would that even work? And he can just remove it. He's also just made out of bandages, I don't think it'll have some affect.

Oh, I thought there was something under the bandages. Although I don't know if it gives poison resistance or biohax in general, I think it's worth adding to the profile.

Kill before Seal decides to BFR. And immo 4 is dependent on the God of the verse. It's pretty unknown how long the resurrection takes but shouldn't be longer than a day.

As far as I understand, BFR requires completely sealing Kaneki. Considering the shockwaves and Kaneki's advantage in LS, I think he can avoid it.

My vote goes to Ken.

 

[Arkenis]

Reassembling yourself after your body was scattered across a thousand square meters is quite a feat. Remember the battle between Darkshine and ENO? ENO was defeated because his body was scattered too much.
Not every Logia user can reassemble their body on such a scale. If Seal has such feats, he can handle it, but otherwise, it will be a problem.

It's just gas? I don't read OPM but that doesn't really matter here. Comparing other verses doesn't mean much.

Oh, I thought there was something under the bandages. Although I don't know if it gives poison resistance or biohax in general, I think it's worth adding to the profile.

I mean there's also the fact it's kagune poison, what shows it's poisonous to something like Seal?

As far as I understand, BFR requires completely sealing Kaneki. Considering the shockwaves and Kaneki's advantage in LS, I think he can avoid it.

My vote goes to Ken.

Nah look

• Dimensional Travel & BFR (Seal sealed Move which allows him to transport himself or people somewhere else or bring people to other places)

 

[NikHelton]

It's just gas? I don't read OPM but that doesn't really matter here. Comparing other verses doesn't mean much.

This isn't an OPM mechanic, it's just a illustrative example. Just because a character can turn into water or smoke doesn't mean they'll survive being blown away a hundred meters. So, I'm asking, can Seal recover from something like that?

I mean there's also the fact it's kagune poison, what shows it's poisonous to something like Seal?

If a character has no resistance to poison, then it works. That's a logical conclusion. If Seal's physiology gives them an advantage, then that should be added to their profiles. If they're made entirely of bandages, I won't even use that argument, but for future reference, you should add that to your profile

Nah look

• Dimensional Travel & BFR (Seal sealed Move which allows him to transport himself or people somewhere else or bring people to other places)

Looks worse than Muzan's BFR

Count my vote

 

[Arkenis]

This isn't an OPM mechanic, it's just a illustrative example. Just because a character can turn into water or smoke doesn't mean they'll survive being blown away a hundred meters. So, I'm asking, can Seal recover from something like that?

I'm saying other series depictions of something doesn't mean other verses have the same limitations. But yeah, he can control clouds from afar and that's where his intang is based off of.

If a character has no resistance to poison, then it works. That's a logical conclusion. If Seal's physiology gives them an advantage, then that should be added to their profiles. If they're made entirely of bandages, I won't even use that argument, but for future reference, you should add that to your profile

I'm asking when have we seen kagune poison be poisonous to something like Seal?

 

[NikHelton]

I'm saying other series depictions of something doesn't mean other verses have the same limitations. But yeah, he can control clouds from afar and that's where his intang is based off of.

His weather control has nothing to do with him being able to turn into gas. His body remained roughly the same size during these moments. Unless you have evidence that Seal is able to pull himself together after this, this is a bad move for him.

I'm asking when have we seen kagune poison be poisonous to something like Seal?

Akira needed RC suppressors after the kagune came into contact with her body, otherwise she would have died. The human body isn't designed for this. That's why Kano's surgeries have such a low success rate.

 

[Arkenis]

His weather control has nothing to do with him being able to turn into gas. His body remained roughly the same size during these moments. Unless you have evidence that Seal is able to pull himself together after this, this is a bad move for him.

It does. His weather control and intang are the same thing lol.

Akira needed RC suppressors after the kagune came into contact with her body, otherwise she would have died. The human body isn't designed for this. That's why Kano's surgeries have such a low success rate.

Okay but Seal isn't human. So I'm just wondering what shows it'll work

 

[NikHelton]

It does. His weather control and intang are the same thing lol.

Just because he can summon clouds and transform his body into a small cloud (less than 10 cubic meters in volume, lol) doesn't mean he can recover from any part of the cloud. Consider his body to be torn apart. Show me how he controls himself well enough to recover after being scattered hundreds of meters away.

Okay but Seal isn't human. So I'm just wondering what shows it'll work

This is generally how the rules of this wiki work. If a character has no resistance, they're susceptible. But if Seal doesn't have biological physiology, blood, etc., then I won't use this argument.

 

[Arkenis]

Just because he can summon clouds and transform his body into a small cloud (less than 10 cubic meters in volume, lol) doesn't mean he can recover from any part of the cloud. Consider his body to be torn apart. Show me how he controls himself well enough to recover after being scattered hundreds of meters away.

He has hundreds of meters range to control clouds. Why would he not be able to control his body?

This is generally how the rules of this wiki work. If a character has no resistance, they're susceptible. But if Seal doesn't have biological physiology, blood, etc., then I won't use this argument.

No?

 

[DarthSorox]

Helton's arguments seems good

Kaneki FRA

 

[DarthSorox]

This guy escaped from Tutenshein, lol?

 

[NikHelton]

He has hundreds of meters range to control clouds. Why would he not be able to control his body?

Because it's not the same thing. Unless he was revived from a random cloud after his body was destroyed. Besides, he controlled clouds when he was in his normal form and completely intact. Is he able to control clouds when his body is scattered all over the place? It's a fair question.

No?

What exactly is "no"?

 

[Arkenis]

Because it's not the same thing. Unless he was revived from a random cloud after his body was destroyed. Besides, he controlled clouds when he was in his normal form and completely intact. Is he able to control clouds when his body is scattered all over the place? It's a fair question.

And I've answered it already. Seal gets scattered, he can control the gas from hundreds of meters away.

What exactly is "no"?

That's not the general rule lol. It depends on the poison. Can kagune poison work on abstract entities? Can it work on rocks? Can it work on space, etc? You don't assume it works without it demonstrating so.

 

[Foriaa]

That's not the general rule lol. It depends on the poison. Can kagune poison work on abstract entities? Can it work on rocks? Can it work on space, etc? You don't assume it works without it demonstrating so.

I don't see inorganic physiology on Seal's page.

 

[Foriaa]

Kaneki FRA

 

[Arkenis]

I don't see inorganic physiology on Seal's page.

I didn't say that? I'm simply saying arguing Kagune poison working on Seal isn't something we assume because Seal isn't human, he's an abstract entity.

 

[Foriaa]

Seal has type 2 ae, which grants him no resistances to poison abilities. Whether or not Seal is human doesn't matter, poison has an effect on any living thing, regardless if their human or not. We're not going to say "Kagune poison working on dog's isn't something we assume because dog's aren't humans". Poison is a substance that can harm or even kill a living organism when it enters into it's body.

 

[Foriaa]

If you still disagree, we should just get a mod's opinion on this.

 

[Arkenis]

Seal has type 2 ae, which grants him no resistances to poison abilities. Whether or not Seal is human doesn't matter, poison has an effect on any living thing, regardless if their human or not. We're not going to say "Kagune poison working on dog's isn't something we assume because dog's aren't humans". Poison is a substance that can harm or even kill a living organism when it enters into it's body.

I can't believe this is so hard to understand. Putting aside that I already said Seal can just push the poison away through his liquid control, poison can not harm every living organism, unless it's potency is blatant. I'm not going back and forth, he just pushes it aside through his liquid control or removes it with his bandages.

Edit: Go ahead and get a mod ig.

 

[Foriaa]