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Garou vs Cooler (0-0-0)

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Is Supernova even a durability negating attack? Because if it’s not, there’s no reason it should atomize Garou in the first place. His RE is extremely high to where he constantly adapts to the level of damage or energy he’s exposed to, instantly surpassing it. Stat-wise, he’d end up superior mid-attack. Garou’s taken and adapted to attacks far beyond his stats, including ones similar to Supernova. The attack couldn’t even kill Goku, so why would it suddenly work here? Even if Supernova initially harmed him, Garou would evolve right at the moment of impact, increasing his durability. From that point, Cooler’s regular physical or ki attacks wouldn’t even be able to scratch him.
 
I should also add that while coolers attacks under IT are instant this dosen't inheriently mean supernova itself is instant

What I mean by this is that supernova doesn't just explode on contact like other ki blasts do here for example we can see cooler make contact with supernova and it doesn't immediately explode, instead it pushes him back before later exploding

what this means is that Garou would 100% have the time to just overpower it with LS and power mimicry
 
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Cooler isn't even hitting Garou with Supernova. He'll just portal the energy into another dimension like Blast does.
 
Also has the gravity knuckle absorption thing as well.
 
Is Supernova even a durability negating attack? Because if it’s not, there’s no reason it should atomize Garou in the first place. His RE is extremely high to where he constantly adapts to the level of damage or energy he’s exposed to, instantly surpassing it. Stat-wise, he’d end up superior mid-attack. Garou’s taken and adapted to attacks far beyond his stats, including ones similar to Supernova. The attack couldn’t even kill Goku, so why would it suddenly work here? Even if Supernova initially harmed him, Garou would evolve right at the moment of impact, increasing his durability. From that point, Cooler’s regular physical or ki attacks wouldn’t even be able to scratch him.
It’s not durability negating. It just atomizes/vaporizes from raw power, like any Ki Blast does. If you’re strong enough, if you can take it.

As for how much higher Supernova is over Cooler, Kaioken x20 Goku with an extra multiplier of the S.KHH (magnifying his PL an extra 3 times), couldn’t phase 5th Form Cooler. Like, Cooler was stomping him. Super Saiyan (50x Base) Goku then was stomping Cooler, effortlessly, (tanking and utterly beating the tar out of him), and Cooler’s Supernova was able to force that Goku to the utter brink with a S.KHH.

So as far as quantifiable numbers go, the technique puts him vastly higher, so if Cooler hits him with it (in his Zero Time attack) it could definitely kill. This gets magnified with hundreds of Coolers who can put their Supernovas together to amplify the power output of the blast many-fold per extra Supernova. Hundreds of Supernovas at once in one big sphere would put its numbers crazy high.

The catch is that Cooler just literally wouldn’t, and due to that time passes, and Garou’s RE/AD can make jumps massively higher than the Supernova amps Cooler to so he can bypass it.

Like I mentioned before, Cooler has a wincon. This is not an Incon, nor is it a stomp, It’s just that wincon is reliant on him fighting the most optimal way possible for a ranged attack in zero time that, to utterly guarantee death, has his hundreds of bodies use a super combined blast attack to eviscerate Garou before Garou can even do anything.

Conversely, Garou, as soon as he realizes what Cooler’s about, (nigh-immediately), would just throw out a GRB, or evolve, or copy IT to then counter it, etc.

It’s a battle between a guy with a buncha wincons (some of which cost a little time) versus a guy with one specific wincon that he’d never use until it was too late and give his foe all the time in the world.
 
As for how much higher Supernova is over Cooler, Kaioken x20 Goku with an extra multiplier of the S.KHH (magnifying his PL an extra 3 times), couldn’t phase 5th Form Cooler. Like, Cooler was stomping him. Super Saiyan (50x Base) Goku then was stomping Cooler, effortlessly, (tanking and utterly beating the tar out of him), and Cooler’s Supernova was able to force that Goku to the utter brink with a S.KHH.

So as far as quantifiable numbers go, the technique puts him vastly higher, so if Cooler hits him with it (in his Zero Time attack) it could definitely kill. This gets magnified with hundreds of Coolers who can put their Supernovas together to amplify the power output of the blast many-fold per extra Supernova. Hundreds of Supernovas at once in one big sphere would put its numbers crazy high.
Garou is immortal. The attack I linked in my post was High 6-C while he was only High 7-C. I don't think I have to explain why that's bigger than 50x. Goku had a power struggle wit the Supernova so I don't see why it would vaporize Garou at all.
 
50x isn't even a vaporization worthy gap in strength. It's a one-shot, sure, but not "atomize/vaporize the target" type of strong. It isn't anything Garou couldn't momentarily endure/copy/reflect/absorb/bfr away.


And yes he quite literally has all of those options...
 
So Cooler was a 20, and SSJ Goku is a 50.
An at best slightly above x2 power amp really isn't going to be that helpful.
 
Garou’s numbers are 2 ZettaFoe, whereas 5th Form Cooler without any further amps was at 216 ZettaFoe.

The Supernova forced SSJ Goku at 540 ZettaFoe (not accounting for the KHH’s amp) to the brink.

By the time of Return of Cooler, Mecha Frieza showed up and was dispatched by Trunks, who SSJ Goku and Vegeta were superior to and scale to the 1 YottaFoe range (as Trunks when he Time Traveled was considered “about as strong as Gohan”).

That’s about a 500x-ish gap? Bare minimum? Combine that with the jump of power Supernova grants, as well as the extra Coolers pooling their power into one move, and you’re barking up a significant number of extra extra zeroes. (For reference, in the Lord Slug film, Combining Ki with just Piccolo while both were on death’s door gave Goku the ability to handle the 100x Kaioken. Combining Ki with all of his friends in the Broly movie gave Goku the ability to defeat Broly, who could destroy 1/4th the Living Universe, which {unfortunately} is accepted as infinite. Even ignoring that, you’re going from galactic to countless galaxies.)

The hypothetical Cooler Group Supernova would absolutely be enough to wipe out Garou. Even if we wipe out the 500x initial gap and immediately have him his own YottaFoe high end on his profile so they’re fundamentally equal at round start. (Because the jump in power Ki Sharing gives is very wack and massive for some reason).

Note: The amount of power Ki-Sharing gives isn’t consistent—Goku only got a 100x or so boost in Lord Slug, but in the Broly movie got a waaay bigger jump. Baby absorbed the energy of the Saiyans and Tuffles and only got SSJ2 and 3 level jumps. SSJ4 Goku absorbed his Family’s Ki and got only a little over 2x power (though to be far, they also took him from zero Ki to that level, so a lot of Ki is being spent to just refill his power, which is absurdly into 2-C). Even in the Shadow Dragons Saga where Goku is going “to the limit” it’s vaguely above 10x (same thing here, though. Was at zero, now at this new above 10x amp). And the worst offense is in the Anime Namek Saga, where sharing Ki between Piccolo, Gohan, and Krillin didn’t do anything at all.

The only reason why it’s such a substantial factor here is because Cooler literally has a hive mind of hundreds of himself that makes it more likely than not (basically a guarantee) he’ll get an upper end result, not a lower end one, which puts Garou in hot water, because upper end results are absurd jumps here.
So Cooler was a 20, and SSJ Goku is a 50.
An at best slightly above x2 power amp really isn't going to be that helpful.
Cooler was above a 20x direct amp combined with a 3x PL amp (which act as far greater stat jumps than the numbers imply, unless specifically caused by a transformation that works linearly). Same goes for SSJ Goku’s S.KHH.
 
Garou’s numbers are 2 ZettaFoe, whereas 5th Form Cooler without any further amps was at 216 ZettaFoe.

The Supernova forced SSJ Goku at 540 ZettaFoe (not accounting for the KHH’s amp) to the brink.

By the time of Return of Cooler, Mecha Frieza showed up and was dispatched by Trunks, who SSJ Goku and Vegeta were superior to and scale to the 1 YottaFoe range (as Trunks when he Time Traveled was considered “about as strong as Gohan”).

That’s about a 500x-ish gap? Bare minimum? Combine that with the jump of power Supernova grants, as well as the extra Coolers pooling their power into one move, and you’re barking up a significant number of extra extra zeroes. (For reference, in the Lord Slug film, Combining Ki with just Piccolo while both were on death’s door gave Goku the ability to handle the 100x Kaioken. Combining Ki with all of his friends in the Broly movie gave Goku the ability to defeat Broly, who could destroy 1/4th the Living Universe, which {unfortunately} is accepted as infinite. Even ignoring that, you’re going from galactic to countless galaxies.)

The hypothetical Cooler Group Supernova would absolutely be enough to wipe out Garou. Even if we wipe out the 500x initial gap and immediately have him his own YottaFoe high end on his profile so they’re fundamentally equal at round start. (Because the jump in power Ki Sharing gives is very wack and massive for some reason).
Garou automatically has Cooler's physical stats and can grow 20x stronger in an instant afterwards, which gets exponentially higher as the fight goes on. So no, Garou is in no world getting vaporized.
 
Cooler was above a 20x direct amp combined with a 3x PL amp (which act as far greater stat jumps than the numbers imply, unless specifically caused by a transformation that works linearly). Same goes for SSJ Goku’s S.KHH.
Obviously the Kamehameha wasn't a x3 multiplier that time, if it was Cooler would be x60 Goku's power, a.k.a. just straight up stronger than SSJ Goku?
There's a reason it's listed as an "up to" rather than a solid multiplier.
 
Garou automatically has Cooler's physical stats and can grow 20x stronger in an instant afterwards, which gets exponentially higher as the fight goes on. So no, Garou is in no world getting vaporized.
We’re talking about the hypothetical, optimal, group Cooler attack that would be thrown in Zero Time before Garou could do anything, though. So he wouldn’t.

Meaning yes, he’d just die.

But Cooler with literally never do this so it doesn’t matter.
Garou's first move would be to copy Cooler's power so the initial AP gap is practically meaningless.
Read above.
Cooler himself doesn't even go all out immediately either, since he was throwing hands with a base Goku when Cooler himself was around his SSJ state.
I literally keep saying this?
Obviously the Kamehameha wasn't a x3 multiplier that time, if it was Cooler would be x60 Goku's power, a.k.a. just straight up stronger than SSJ Goku?
There's a reason it's listed as an "up to" rather than a solid multiplier.
No, the PL jumps just aren’t quantified because they’re non-linear increases. Being 500 up on someone, ala Nappa (4K) and Piccolo (3.5K), doesn’t translate to being 12.5% stronger. It translates to being a lot stronger in a way that we can’t put a number on outside of “very big.” Also, it varies because the amount of power the KHH dishes out is literally varied/dependent on the input a character puts in.
 
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So what do you see Cooler doing? As soon as the fight starts Cooler will see Garou just destroying Coolers as they attempt to get near him (No punches from Garou, granted not saying Garou wouldn't be doing other stuff) from just 1 meter of his radiation. So he'll try ki blast spams before just then dying once GBR is triggered?
 
No, the PL jumps just aren’t quantified because they’re non-linear increases. Being 500 up on someone, ala Nappa (4K) and Piccolo (3.5K), doesn’t translate to being 12.5% stronger. It translates to being a lot stronger in a way that we can’t put a number on outside of “very big.” Also, it varies because the amount of power the KHH dishes out is literally varied/dependent on the input a character puts in.
This isn't one of those cases tho?
Cooler is objectively below x50 Goku, and above x20 Goku. The Kamehameha literally could not be more than a x2 amp here.
 
So what do you see Cooler doing? As soon as the fight starts Cooler will see Garou just destroying Coolers as they attempt to get near him (No punches from Garou, granted not saying Garou wouldn't be doing other stuff) from just 1 meter of his radiation. So he'll try ki blast spams before just then dying once GBR is triggered?
Basically, yeah.

He’d likely first attempt Instant Transmission for physical blows and to toy with Garou (given his Ki would be lower) which would lead to the Coolers dying. They also might actually successfully lands their hits—But only because they’re deactivating on set paths with momentum and power proc’d before they shut down. It wouldn’t leave any meaningful damage on Garou.

From there he’d attempt his info analysis (probably find nothing useful) and try to Ki Blast spam, but it’d already be too late at that point, while Garou likely would’ve learned IT and Copied Cooler’s stats at this point and thrown the GRB.
 
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Goku can use the IT in the metal cooler fight. Garou has the IT in this fight and rapidly becomes really good with it. So he can use it in this fight.
 
Goku can use the IT in the metal cooler fight. Garou has the IT in this fight and rapidly becomes really good with it. So he can use it in this fight.
Just to be clear, this does not necessarily mean he'll use the same medium that all IT users use right?
 
Goku can use the IT in the metal cooler fight. Garou has the IT in this fight and rapidly becomes really good with it. So he can use it in this fight.
Not only did Goku use IT, but he spammed it during his fight with Meta Cooler.

EDIT: Also grace has started here!
 
I would imagine he would, that’s kinda the only way to do it right?
Well, you see. I wouldn't mind if he were to basically replicate IT but using another medium other than Subspace when utilizing it (basically he has a watered down version of IT). The why to that is due to the fact Subspace is nonexistent (judging by how it is said in the Dragon Ball Cosmology page) with a whole bunch of other stuff listed under it's properties, which logically speaking: Garou can't deal with (otherwise that's NLF if we say he can).
 
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I’m not sure what exactly they’re being talking about, here. The IT Subspace’s only property is being Time Transcendent (meaning travel to and from it creates unconventional Time Stop), and functioning to send you across all dimensional barriers/interdimensional transportation range.
 
I’m not sure what exactly they’re being talking about, here. The IT Subspace’s only property is being Time Transcendent (meaning travel to and from it creates unconventional Time Stop), and functioning to send you across all dimensional barriers/interdimensional transportation range.
Subspace properties: "The size of the realm is unknown, but as it lacks the concepts of space and time & is a void of nothingness it should qualify for Nonexistent Physiology (Nature【Type 1】; AspectsTypes 2Concepts〉& 5Space-Time & History〉】) and Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1)"

Garou is not able to use a medium that is beyond his reach and is practically spaceless and timeless.
 
Subspace properties: "The size of the realm is unknown, but as it lacks the concepts of space and time—”
Wrong Subspace. Understandable due to the confusing wording, though. There is the Overarching Subspace, which is this. That holds within itself individual Dimensions, which are also called Subspaces. These are your Hyperbolic Time Chambers, Suguroku Space, Instant Transmission Subspace, etc. These individual Subspaces have their own specific spatio-temporal properties. Such as 365x speed time (HTC), or a reality whose fabric nullifies Ki and is dependent on games (Suguroku Space), or transcends time (IT Subspace).
 
Wrong Subspace. Understandable due to the confusing wording, though. There is the Overarching Subspace, which is this. That holds within itself individual Dimensions, which are also called Subspaces. These are your Hyperbolic Time Chambers, Suguroku Space, Instant Transmission Subspace, etc. These individual Subspaces have their own specific spatio-temporal properties. Such as 365x speed time (HTC), or a reality whose fabric nullifies Ki and is dependent on games (Suguroku Space), or transcends time (IT Subspace).
Shouldn't there be sub-subspaces section in the dragon ball cosmology page if there are many distinct ones and not all of them have the same properties?
 
The Subspace tab directly mentions it.

A dimension devoid of the concepts of time and space, that doesn't belong to any World and is located between all dimensions, such as the ones between the Macrocosm. Contains within this void are dimensions possessing time, but by being separated, it shows that they have their own parallel time axes such as Room of Time & Spirit, thus all other dimensions are separate space-times.
It’s also mentioned in the HTC Section.
The Room of Spirit & Time (commonly known as the Hyperbolic Time Chamber) is a special room located in another dimension and an area within the overaching Subspace.
And as for the Sub-Subspaces, you have the RoSaT, which is listed, Suguroku Space, which was destroyed and thus doesn’t exist anymore, and the IT Dimension—Which I honestly don’t know why it doesn’t have a tab. But the fact there is a separation is noted on the Cosmology Blog.
 
The Subspace tab directly mentions it.


It’s also mentioned in the HTC Section.

And as for the Sub-Subspaces, you have the RoSaT, which is listed, Suguroku Space, which was destroyed and thus doesn’t exist anymore, and the IT Dimension—Which I honestly don’t know why it doesn’t have a tab. But the fact there is a separation is noted on the Cosmology Blog.
I'm bookmarking this for future reference.
 
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