Arifureta: Soul Concept (✔)

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Spoiler: Soul & Concept

Soul Magic:
WN

To define Soul magic the expression of ‘magic that interfere with negative material possessed by living thing’ showed its true nature the most. To say it specifically, this magic could also interfere with things like energy inside the body that was magic power, heat, electricity, then thought, consciousness, memory. Although this magic was designated as ‘soul’, what Yue and others could exercise with this magic was interference at thought body more accurately. And then if someone could handle this magic perfectly, the caster could personally create consciousness and the like, they could configure it too. To put another way, it was possible to create artificial intelligence using magic.

LN

Spirit magic was magic that manipulated the incorporeal elements of sentient beings. In more concrete terms, itcould be used to manipulate the heat, electricity, and other matterless energy that circulated within a person’s body. That also included things like memories, thoughts, and consciousness. With enough skill, a spirit magic user could take those incorporeal elements, duplicate them, and create a new soul out of them. In other words, create another person.

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Ancient Magic:

"Umm, so Shizuku-chan. You know how all the magic we use is a degraded version of the magic they had in the age of the gods, right?”

“Yes. I studied up a little on this world. Ancient magic is the stuff that comes up in all the old histories, right? They were able to control the core elements that govern the laws of this world, while the elements we have are all derivatives... Vol 6 p219

"Anyway, what I meant about the general idea was that. Every ancient magic lets you manipulate some fundamental fact of nature, but until now, we didn’t realize which ones they all were. And in order to use concept magic, you have to understand the fundamental aspects of every ancient magic.” Vol 10 p215

"I see. So every ancient magic can interfere with some fundamental abstract concept. I guess that’s too much for normal humans to handle. No wonder you can’t just make something to take us home... From the sound of it, it’ll be pretty difficult to combine all the right elements together...” Vol 10 p216

So it's clear that it target laws and concepts(type 2).

Soul Magic is a branch of Ancient Magic that focus on a single aspect and in this case it's Spirit/Soul. Refering to it as "thought body" and "elements" and the later was accepted as info type 2(Here). And it was proven that the soul carries the fundamental information of the individual(Here).

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Concept Magic:

Concept Magic: An Age of God Magic that allows one to interfere with the laws of the world and impress concepts upon it. By raising a powerful wish or desire with Spirit Magic and Evolution Magic, it can be raised to a level of a concept before being forcefully materialized with magical power.

Soul or atleast a part of it(will, emotion...) could become a concept that govern reality beyond the capability of A.M.

Will=Concept:

Laus turned to Alfard with a strange expression on his face and asked, “Your Majesty, please tell us. What was the true nature of that multicolored barrier the first hero created with nothing but force of will? What does it mean to convert your willpower into magic?”

The answer to that was the key to beating Ehit. It was what Miledi and the others had come to Dastia to learn. The Liberators stiffened, nervously awaiting Alfard’s answer.

Alfard looked pretty nervous himself, and he took a deep breath before saying in a solemn voice, “Concept magic.” ZVol 6 p290

Their voices echoed through the room like the tolling of a bell. The two of them lit up, glowing brighter than the sun. The swirling galaxy of mana around them erupted like a supernova and the room was inundated in red and golden light, blotting out everything. The mana carried with it an unshakable, indestructible will. The force of the mana knocked Shea and the others out for a second, but they regained consciousness before falling to the floor.

By the time they were lucid again, the light had disappeared. Staggering, Shea and the others regained their balance and watched as that tremendous amount of mana poured into the key’s crystal. At long last, Hajime had created what he wanted. A key leading back home.

More specifically, a concept magic teleportation artifact known as the Crystal Key.

Here's info about it

“Mmm... Yeah. I think I’ve got the hang of it now. The question is if we’ll be able to exhibit a will that’s strong enough to be turned into a concept next time.” Vol 10 p241

Mana is a medium for soul, will, emotions, memories, informations(1&2) and concepts.

Mana carrying will/concept:

Their voices echoed through the room like the tolling of a bell. The two of them lit up, glowing brighter than the sun. The swirling galaxy of mana around them erupted like a supernova and the room was inundated in red and golden light, blotting out everything. The mana carried with it an unshakable, indestructible will. Vol 10 p240

A pillar of gold and crimson light shot up out of the Sanctuary. There was so much mana in that pillar that even Shea’s and the others’ jaws dropped open. The will, the concept pouring off of that mana could be felt even from here, and the soldiers fell silent as they looked up at it. Everyone else did too. They were too enamored by that spiral of crimson-gold light to do anything but stare, after all. Vol 13 p247

emotions and memories:

"What’s going on!?”

“I-Is that a movie?”

“It’s showing a... dark cavern?”

A projection of an unfamiliar location appeared in front of Shea and the others. The projection was reflected on a thin film of dense mist, and the projection itself was made out of mana. Shea and the others gazed at the strange scene, forgetting that they were supposed to be leaving. Vol 10 p230

Deep within the dark cavern was a four-way intersection. Within that intersection stood a rabbit with white fur. Its legs were oddly enlarged, bulging dark veins running down their length. Another pulse of mana blew through the party, this one carrying emotions with it.

“Is this... unease? Or impatience?"

“I sense fear as well... I think this video’s a memory.”

“I suspect it is Master’s memory. A memory of his time in the place he describes as the abyss.”

The girls’ deductions proved correct. As the video continued to play, more emotions poured into the mana pulsing out of Hajime. He watched the unknown monster with fear and unease. No one had any idea how or why videos of Hajime’s past were playing, but everyone was certain this was indeed Hajime’s past, and the feelings being transmitted through his mana were his feelings. He had said almost nothing about the time he’d spent in the abyss before meeting Yue. Those events were behind him now, and Hajime wasn’t the kind of guy to brag about how much suffering he’d been through or how hard his life was or anything. Vol 10 p230

there is also mana carrying informations:

Of course, it hadn’t been easy. Absorbing an opponent’s magic in the middle of combat and then recreating it took an immense amount of skill. But luckily, Oscar Orcus was the greatest synergist who had ever lived, so of course he’d managed it. His umbrella’s mana-absorbing ability had allowed him to siphon some of the disintegration beam that had been hitting it, and his glasses had let him analyze all of the information stored in that mana, then recreate it with his gauntlet. And as a result, his gauntlet was now capable of using disintegration magic. Zvol 6 p159

Which is consistent with the soul also being a complex construct of mana.

Here is Lyuttilis who could manipulate info(1&2) stating this about C.M.

“Lyu, you’re better at appraising than anyone. What are you getting from this barrier?”

“I’m not sure. It doesn’t fall under any category of ancient magic. All I’m picking up is this strong will that says, ‘nothing shall despoil this sanctuary,’” Lyutillis replied, shaking her head in confusion ZVol 6 p170

Her power work on everything in the verse including A.M. but all she get from C.M. is a will.

And they were able to destroy this barrier when they synched their wills

"Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!” Miledi shouted, her cries echoing through the sky above the Divine Mountain.

If this didn’t work, nothing would. However, no one present even considered the possibility of failure. They all believed in Miledi...and they all wished for revolution from the bottom of their hearts. And so, they shouted together with her, hoping that their determination had the power to change the world. They fervently prayed for a future where everyone could live as they pleased, a future where everyone would be free to live in harmony if they so chose, a future free from Ehit’s shackles.

“It’s time to liberate this world!” all seven of them shouted at once. And in that instant, they felt linked to each other in a way that had never happened before. They were so perfectly in sync that their wills melded into one. And they could feel that singular will give birth to something new.

At that moment, they all grew keenly aware that they would succeed.

“Breaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak!”

Cracks started to show along the multicolored barrier. Whatever will was sustaining it seemed to be losing against that of Miledi and her friends. ZVol 6 p171

Increase in willpower=Increase in conceptual potency

More

"You guys have already fulfilled the conditions necessary to use concept magic.”

According to Alfard, concept magic quite literally allowed someone to materialize concepts into physical reality. There were no rules, no restrictions to what could be done with it. It truly was the ultimate type of magic. But in order to use concept magic, a person needed to interact with the seven fundamental rules of the universe, understand them intimately, and possess a massive amount of mana. And then, they needed a final key that was so difficult to grasp that the secrets of concept magic had been lost to time.

“All you guys need now is an unbelievably powerful will.” Zero Vol 6 p291

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Emotions=Concept:
Cused Black Glasses:

「It’s just your imagination! Now, here I go! Smile widely~ “maidd!”」

Click

「Wait a second. What’s with that word just now?」

「It’s the spellword to activate the photo function?」

So that was it. Not many people could directly manipulate their magic power, so it was understandable that a spellword was necessary. Though he was extremely bothered why that activation word felt very familiar to his ears but also not, like he should know the meaning of the word……

「Then, if I do this next……」 Liliana turned the lenses toward the chest part of her dress and spoke 「”Buest!”」, certainly the lenses flashed like rainbow and Hajime’s face became printed on the dress.

It was truly amazing. It surpassed the modern camera or printing machine. Hajime wanted to question her why she went out of her way to print the picture on her chest, however something else prickled his curiosity even more.

「Hey, what’s the meaning of the activation words?」

「Eh? That is……I do not know. It seems to be ancient language.」

「To me they sounded like “Maid the best” though?」

「Ahaha, there is no way that is the case! You made it sounds like the great creator of the black glasses was a maid maniac who created this in order to secretly photo maids for eternal preservation, sheesh-」

「Thanks a lot for the concrete hypothesis. It sounds really possible to be the case yeah.」

It felt like this “Cursed Black Glasses” was obsession toward glasses and maid that had been sublimated into concept magic after going through millenniums of time. SS CURSED BLACK GLASSES

After the antagonist(Ehit) was hit with info erasure, a "shade"(emotions) of him remain:

“That thing really is a monster.”

“Mhm. I almost pity it.”

It looked like a giant lump of flesh. Various creatures’ bones, muscles, and skin had been smashed together to form its body, and numerous limbs stuck out of the misshapen lump at odd angles. It also possessed several writhing tentacles that looked utterly grotesque. Simply staring at it was enough to sap one’s sanity with how deranged it looked.

Hajime couldn’t sense anything of Ehitruje’s personality or will from the creature. The existence-denying bullet had indeed killed Ehitruje himself. The only reason he hadn’t completely disappeared was because his attachment to eternal life and desire to trample over everything were so strong that a shade of him composed of only those feelings had remained.

The creature that had once been Ehitruje let out another scream.

“Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!” Vol 13 p223

“All right, you half-dead shade. I’ve got only one thing left to say to you.”

“Yeah.”

The two of them sucked in a deep breath and shouted in unison, “You get what you ******* deserve, you bastard!”

They finished pulling the trigger and the bullet shot out with a surprisingly quiet noise.How dare you use my body to hurt Hajime?! Not even a thousand deaths can atone for such a sin!

Hajime’s thoughts were, of course, in a similar vein to Yue’s. The two of them loved each other so deeply that any time the other was hurt in any way, shape, or form, they immediately flew into a rage. Moreover, the concept packed into that bullet—that one should pay for the sins they’ve wrought—was akin to an encapsulation of the feelings of every single person across the history of Tortus that had been toyed with and trampled on by Ehitruje. A single streak of light shot across the room and, small though it was, it contained the most powerful concept magic that had ever been. All the pain and suffering Ehitruje had inflicted on humanity over his long, long lifetime was coming back to smite him. Vol 13 p231

His "Shade" was absorbing the concepts of everything arround him which resulted in this:

「The conception dwelling within Ehito and the conception within us apostles, and in addition sacred beasts that existed in legend and vast amount of conception directed toward magical beasts were mixed chaotically within that lump of meat.」

「And there, master. You shot that conception into it.」

Hajime’s last concept magic “Returning the Agony You Spread Out Back at You It’s Payback For Everything You Have Done, You Shitty Bastard” that finished off a god.

「Within that chaos, the negative emotions from millions, trillions of death that Ehito and we caused brought the concept of death to us, and as the result, we were annihilated together with Ehito down to our particles but……」

「Where did the prayer filled with faithful and pure wish, the positive conception go to? This is the answer.」

The people of Tortus had continuously believed in the existence of a virtuous Ehito. That conception also dwelled within the apostles. It also wasn’t difficult to imagine that other conceptions other than fear were also residing within the monsters of the holy precinct. Ch 387

Conception are just strong emotions. Increase of Emotions of Death=Concept of Death

More

So far, they hadn’t been able toactivate it even once. They’d tried meditating, using restoration magic to relive past tragedies and rile themselves up, and had even used spirit magic to manipulate their emotions. Oscar had prepared a bunch of artifacts to try to imbue with concept magic if they ever managed to get it working as well, but despite their best efforts and the combined might of all of their mana, the seven of them just couldn’t seem to get concept magic working.

They wanted to find a way into Ehit’s domain, or a way to drag him down to Tortus, as well as a way to kill him. However, every time their attempts fizzled out, it felt like they were being told their desire to destroy him wasn’t strong enough, which was a lot more mentally taxing than they’d initially expected. Zero Vol 6 p293

Miledi explained that they’d finally succeeded in creating things with concept magic. They’d managed to create multiple trump cards against Ehit...all while completely wasted.

The first thing they’d made was the Godslayer Dagger. It was a small, twenty-centimeter-long dagger with a sky-blue blade imbued with the power to kill gods. The second thing they’d created was the Compass of Eternal Paths. It looked more like a pocket watch with just one needle than a compass, but the concept magic it was imbued with pointed the needle to whatever the user desired most. Finally, the last thing they’d created was the Arrow of Boundaries. It was an arrow made of black quartz, and it was imbued with concept magic that allowed it to destroy any and all boundaries. Zero Vol 6 p298

“Master, I am glad that you are willing to ask me what my wishes are, despite your desire to return home being so strong that you were able to craft concept magic around it. But answer me truthfully. Do you wish to kill god for the sake of this world?”, not really.” Vol 10 p271

and

“It is precisely because he lost Yue that he managed to reach this level. You heard what he said as well, did you not?”

The two of them stared blankly at her for a second, then shivered in fear as they realized what concept Hajime must have actualized.

His bottomless rage at having lost Yue had coalesced into an overwhelming apathy. What value was there in a world devoid of his beloved? What reason was there to continue existing in a world without Yue? In Hajime’s mind, there was none. He wouldn’t forgive this world for stealing Yue away from him. Nor would he accept the existence of such a world.

That was why he’d been able to cast concept magic that erased the very existence of everything his chains touched. Hope had driven him to create the Crystal Key, but the complete opposite feeling, despair, fueled his current concept magic. Vol 11 p131

Desire/Emotion=Concept

So, it's clear that an strengthening of the soul fragments(Soul=Will and Emotions) will result in conceptual increase. Proving they're conceptual in nature.

A pillar of gold and crimson light shot up out of the Sanctuary. There was so much mana in that pillar that even Shea’s and the others’ jaws dropped open. The will, the concept pouring off of that mana could be felt even from here, and the soldiers fell silent as they looked up at it. Everyone else did too. They were too enamored by that spiral of crimson-gold light to do anything but stare, after all. Vol 13 p247

C.M. is supperior to A.M.

“Concept magic... is even stronger than ancient magic and can do anything, right? Does that mean we can go back home to Japan? Can you use it already?” Vol 10 p211

And it was stated to be omnipotent

Considering how omnipotent this compass was, it was possible it might even be able to answer that. The moment Hajime thought that, the needle began to spin. It appeared Shea had activated it. When it finally came to a stop, the entire party looked curiously in the direction the needle was pointing. Vol 8 p378

In exchange for being effectively omnipotent, concept magic took an absurd amount of mana and a long time to cast. And speed was the most important factor during a hostage scenario, so it was the least suitable magic for the task. Vol 11 p27

So it's different than regular Law/CM2.
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False Concept Magic:

My ancestor apparently possessed a very powerful special magic that was a cross between metamorphosis and spirit magic.”

Tio suspected he’d used that special magic to encode his grudge, the knowledge of how to perform the ultimate transformation, and a piece of his soul into his scales. Every dragonman’s soul was imbued with the dragonification factor that allowed them to transform, so putting that plus a hidden, deep-seated grudge into an inanimate object made it seem like it was concept magic despite being fundamentally different. Vol 12 p352

An object with an emotion was mistankenly thought to be C.M.

Why?
Because will/emotion=concept

Conclusion: Soul in an construct of thought that fall under Law/Concept.

C.M. is an increase of willpower(Will=Soul) and emotions will lead to an increase in conceptual potency, which kind of prove they're conceptual to begin with. C.M. is different from A.M. cause it's creating a new concept through raising their will/emotion into a higher level which result in a concept instead of manipulating an already existing ones.

Spoiler: Soul & Law

Necklace of Vows: Not sure if this qualified as law manipulation

“That is the Necklace of Vows. It is an artifact that will force you to keep any pledge you speak. Break any of your promises, and this necklace will kill you. Once activated it will bind not only you, but those linked to you by blood as well. If you renege on your word, they die with you.”

Cam briefly explained to Gahard that he had his family in their custody as well. Gahard grit his teeth so hard that it looked like they might break.

The Necklace of Vows was an artifact created with spirit magic. It bound a person’s soul to the promises they made. More specifically, it carved the words a person said into their soul. If the person wearing the necklace ever did anything to annul those promises, or attempted to take the necklace off, their soul was destroyed. And, as it affected anyone who’s soul was linked to the wearer’s by blood, all of Gahard’s family needed to keep wearing their necklaces forever too, or they died. Vol 7 p279

Soul conversion:

“Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!”

Though his mana should have been depleted, it flared up again as Kouki screamed, sending a spiral of pure-white energy rising toward the heavens. However—

“Kouki, stop! If you keep going, you’ll kill yourself!” Shizuku screamed.“Wait, he’ll do what?! Shizuku, what’s going on?! I thought you cut off his mana?!”

“I did! I sliced clean through his mana repository! He’s not absorbing the nearby ether to produce more mana!”

“Then how’s he getting more?!”

“By converting something else! I don’t know if he’s using up his life force or his soul or what, but he’s transforming it all into mana! It’s probably something he can do because he can use Limit Break! Either way, this isn’t good!”

“Goddammit, Kouki, come back to your senses already!”

Indeed, Kouki was creating this mana by burning away his own life. Abilities that overturned the natural laws of the universe always came with a steep cost...and they were practically never worth the price. Vol 12 p139

Note: Limit Break is a form of soul manipulation to amplify stats.

According to Laus, Dylan and the others’ souls had been fused with the souls of ancient warriors. It was possible to split them apart again, and doing so would return the kids to normal. But this would be the most difficult application of spirit magic Laus would have ever attempted. It would be like trying to separate milk tea into milk and tea. He would have to take his time and proceed with caution.

“How long are we talking here?”

“At least a month per person.”

There was no way he’d be able to finish before Miledi ordered the attack on the church. Oscar had been hoping to heal his younger siblings in case the worst happened to them, but it seemed that wouldn’t be possible.

“Even with my help?” Lyutillis asked. Her evolution magic was part of the reason why she’d tagged along.

“That estimate is assuming you’re helping.”

In this world, there was nothing more complex and delicate than a person’s soul.

“There’s one other problem. I’d have to keep treating them indefinitely.”

“Lau-chan, by indefinitely...do you mean even after you heal them?”

“Yes, even after I manage to separate the souls, it’ll be dangerous to try extracting the implanted one. The fusion is too complete. If I don’t regularly come back to treat them, their souls will start to mix again.”

In other words, they’d need Laus’s treatment for the rest of their lives. Some people looked despondent, while others seemed glad treatment was possible at all. ZVol 5 p360

Lyutillis and Laus are able to manipuate informations(1&2) and soul, but they find it extermly difficult to separate two souls after they fused. This prove that soul is something complex even to info manipulator.

They casually manipulate universal laws and concepts, but still consider manipulating the soul as something beyond them.

「Still, it was something that happened through great stretch of time. It will take time for her to recover fully. Originally, soul is a forbidden domain that even god cannot easily interfere with. Not to mention she is a goddess of creation herself. Her soul is fundamentally different from human soul. No matter how powerful and transcendence you all are, be aware of the potentially fatal risk for a child of man to reach your hand toward such thing.」

Aularodde’s gaze moved toward Hajime, then Yue and others.

That was a warning from a goddess (even if formerly) who had protected innumerable life of her world for countless years.

It was exactly because Hajime and others had heard that warning before this that they didn’t keep trying to force Ua Alto’s recovery and chose to ask other goddess. Ch 459

Note: As far as I know "god" here is refering to avatars like Ua Alto, Lutria and Foltina.

Conclusion: The soul is the most complex structure accroding to Laws/CM2 manipulators and manipulating it is equal to manipulating laws.

Spoiler: Soul & Individuality

“Apparently, it’s diffused throughout your body. If we think of the body as a vessel, our souls are the liquid energy that fill it up. Every person’s soul is unique, and it’s an integral part of what makes them them. You can think of a soul as a person’s life force. Or so Laus-dono said, anyway.”

Alfard went on to explain that when a person died, the body stopped being a suitable vessel, so the soul spilled out and dispersed. ZVol 6 p470

Souls are integral and unique to each person.

(This part is related to the quintessence)

“Laus-dono has a theory that both mana and souls are simply different forms of the same energy.”

“Wait, does that mean when we use mana, we’re depleting our souls?”

“Not exactly. His idea is that when energy from the natural world enters people’s bodies, it takes concrete form as either mana or a soul, so they come from the same source, but aren’t one and the same.”

“Hmm, I think I get it? Is it like how if you desynthesize different types of ores and minerals, you’ll see they’re all made from the same basic components?”

“You can look at it that way, yeah. Some scholars also claim that everything in existence is made up of a combination of extremely tiny particles banding together and forming more complexstructures.”

Alfard finished eating his last sandwich, which seemed to mark the end of this strange topic of discussion.

“Anyway, the point is that when people die, their souls dissipate, but they don’t disappear. They simply become a part of the natural world again. They’re still there.” Zvol 6 p471

Souls are construct of their world natural energy(Ki, Mana, Blessing...) While the gods souls are the "quintessence" of those energy.(check under Soul & Form)


Other examples of soul and Individuality:

According to Laus, Dylan and the others’ souls had been fused with the souls of ancient warriors. It was possible to split them apart again, and doing so would return the kids to normal. But this would be the most difficult application of spirit magic Laus would have ever attempted. It would be like trying to separate milk tea into milk and tea. He would have to take his time and proceed with caution.

“How long are we talking here?”

“At least a month per person.”

There was no way he’d be able to finish before Miledi ordered the attack on the church. Oscar had been hoping to heal his younger siblings in case the worst happened to them, but it seemed that wouldn’t be possible.

“Even with my help?” Lyutillis asked. Her evolution magic was part of the reason why she’d tagged along.

“That estimate is assuming you’re helping.”

In this world, there was nothing more complex and delicate than a person’s soul.

“There’s one other problem. I’d have to keep treating them indefinitely.”

“Lau-chan, by indefinitely...do you mean even after you heal them?”

“Yes, even after I manage to separate the souls, it’ll be dangerous to try extracting the implanted one. The fusion is too complete. If I don’t regularly come back to treat them, their souls will start to mix again.”

In other words, they’d need Laus’s treatment for the rest of their lives. Some people looked despondent, while others seemed glad treatment was possible at all. ZVol 5 p360

Lyutillis and Laus are able to manipuate informations(1&2) and soul, but they find it extermly difficult to separate two souls after they fused. This prove that soul is something complex even to info manipulator.

The energy that make up the soul comes from here:

He didn’t know what lie at the bottom of the hole of light.

But, it wasn’t anything good.

Kousuke understood even though the bottom was full covered by light. It was a large river.

It was the stream of light of life. A great stream that was beyond human knowledge. Anyone who got swallowed by it would surely be unable to maintain their self no matter who they were. They would lose their “self” and became “everything” that flowed endlessly in there.

When he looked below, it felt like he was going to get sucked in. He suddenly even got the mood of wanting to let himself to be swallowed by the stream.

Such subconscious and dangerous thought was, Ch 412

Getting you soul absorbed is equal to losing self and individuality. This is the process of reincarnation:
1)the soul leave the body and get absorbed by the geat tree.
2)The great tree "purify" the soul and convert it into the natural energy of the world.
3)The great tree expel this energy to the multiverse.

Conclusion: Souls are unique and integral for individuals, and it define Who and What("Dragon Factor" below) they are on a fundamental level.

Spoiler: Soul & Form

(Not sure if this is helpful)

Soul change the body: Earth apparition possessing a human

This man in black was none other than the true owner of Sokujo. He put Sokujo inside his body to make himself in a possessed state and constantly lurked underground. That was why he was far away from where Kousuke and co originally got held back and Sokujo got proportionally more effective the closer the distance to the mansion was.

But, Hinata’s “power of purification” must be unexpected.

He was driven to the death’s door along with Sokujou, and because of that his presence also became weaker. And because he was also underground, Kousuke and Hinata’s detection didn’t catch him.

There was no doubt that the second “whole mountain purification” would lethally wound him. A clear sign of death was formed on his face.

But, that was exactly why Kousuke felt a chill on his spine seeing the man’s eyes.

「Facing a suicide soldier who is going to accomplish his mission at all cost isn’t funny at all-!!」

To wipe away the rising up bad premonition inside him, Kousuke tried to seal the man using ice tonjutsu――but, as expected a suicide soldier was troublesome.

Something like “possession” wasn’t simple at all. Since the man resolved himself to die, he had already pushed himself into a state that should be called as “assimilation”.

The man’s body crumbled like Taisei’s substitute object at the highway. Ch 412

Oni possessing a woman(human)

At the same time, different cursed item jutted out from the man’s earth body.

That item with charms sticking on it that also burst up looked like a horn. The horn was also emitting terrific miasma too that gnawed on the consciousness of the people of Fujiwara clan.

In addition, there was a violent roar from above.

Sokujou was rampaging on the surface even now following the man in black’s order to drag the other Fujiwara clan members into here. Kousuke grasped the situation through the eyes of his clones that were dealing against it.

The woman.

The woman blew away Kiyotake with an inhuman strength and snapped even Hinata’s binding.

Her face was changing rapidly.

Her hair fell off, her body bloated up, her claws and fangs grew longer, and horns grew out through the skin of her head.

『You stupid fools who didn’t even realize that the apparitions of your own country got stolen!』

The man laughed mockingly with foreign language.

At the same time, the woman who transformed into an oni with huge body rushed toward the hole with terrifying momentum. Ch 412

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And it has a form:

「By the way, about the holy sword……just as you guys imagined, it seems to be something created from the Great Tree. It seems at the bottom of the great tree, at a place near the bottom of the roots, there was a spot where the root and underground minerals blend with each other. It seemed that was the main material used for the holy sword.」

「I see. That was why the best Hajime could do was only giving maintenance to the holy sword.」

In the past, when Hajime tried to improve the holy sword, it contained too many black boxes that in the end, Hajime mainly just repaired it so that the degradation that had accumulated over time was removed and the holy sword could display its original power. Other than that Hajime could only add external options for it.

「Yeah, I couldn’t completely meddle with the holy sword because the Great Tree’s material is also mixed in it. ……I’ll say this just in case, it’s not the transformation of an avatar like what Aularodde did. What Aularodde did was just because she got a screw loose in her head.」

「……Then, it’s just our imagination that it seems like it has its own will?」

「No, there is a will dwelling in it. It can’t exchange words with us no matter what, perhaps because it’s too old, but Aularodde is able to understand it to a certain degree.」

According to her, dwelling inside the holy sword was the will of the first avatar of the Great Tree, Ua Alto.

It seemed that this sword was created in order to oppose Ehito when descended to Tortus and several years hundred passed since he started baring his fang. But, the hero at that time and also Ua Alto herself were tragically defeated in the end. Ua Alto then used her last strength to transfer her soul into the sword.

Hajime glanced briefly at Kousuke. Kousuke also glanced at Hajime. The two of them nodded.

「By the way, the holy sword is the same like Aularodde――a former goddess.」

「「!?」」

Moana and Lilin’s eyes snapped wide open. Koone’s twintail also jumped up.

Kousuke presented additional information.

「We asked the goddess to use her power to materialize the shape of the holy sword’s soul just for a bit and……she was a super pretty black haired girl you know? She has the appearance of a fifteen years old.」

「「!!?」」Ch 386

The green slime――the offshoot spirit of a subordinate god of Lutria, the avatar of Star Tree of Star Spirit World, “Divine Spirit of Flowing Sky Enti”. The god who governed over the world’s sky and wind jiggled 『W-what are you talking about?』 while playing stupid.

「Waa~, waaa~~~h, the wind god-sama of the other world is adorable!」

「It’s jiggling monyo monyoo~」

The fairy sisters must have innocent personality by nature. Rune and Cino were starting to fly around Enti slime joyfully. Netemp Mother who was trying to fix her joint that almost came off also meaninglessly started to run around Hajime. Was she breaking down?

Enti slime finally started paying attention to her surrounding with that. She noticed the countless fairies, the small Heaven Tree, the existence of a goddess, and Netemp Mother who was trying to fix her joint that almost came off with disgusting movement. It made her went Mojo!?.

「Err……should I materialize your form if it pleases you? The type of our power is different though, so it will only be a transient and temporary form.」Ch 388

The green slime is a soul fragment(split body) of an avatar, but it still retain its form/shape and authority.

「Is that because it’s her personally? Or is it because she has the divinity to govern a part of the nature as someone personally created by an avatar?」

「I don’t know about that. Or rather I don’t understand what kind of law this person called Lutria used to create this child. I can understand why her aptitude is so high if the way she created her was by sharing her own existence, but that should be a difficult method that might destroy herself if she took just a single wrong step. I too can possibly do something like that, but I never considered doing it. I think the possibility of that child having high aptitude coincidentally is higher.」Ch 388

「The world ought to be completed within that world itself. After all there is nothing lacking that has to be brought in from outside, so that should be enough. Getting involved with other world will only increase the risk of inviting in disaster. It was because I thought like that.」

Because of that, Lutria never summoned a “hero” even once. That was also the reason she tore off her own soul even though it caused her to be tormented by intense pain for a total of more than seven millenniums to give birth to seven divine spirits. Ch 493

Note: Both Ua Alto and Lutria are an avatars(tree incarnation), and Enti is an avatar split body.


Foltina who is an avatar like them extracting "quintessence" from her soul.

『Anyway, I shall give my assistance to allow hero-sama to display your true ability until my holy sword brethren is awakened. With the quintessence of my power “Blessing”, it’ll be possible to substantially increase the limit of hero-sama.』

「That’s……I’m thankful. Truly.」

An increase to his base strength, and obtaining a new trump card that he never even imagined. Kouki’s expression naturally split into a smile.

『Then, with haste』

Foltina joined her hands in front of her chest. She closed her eyes and at the same time her radiance increased, forming a sphere of light.

That sphere of light──

『Please receive it──my brethren』

「Ee?」

To draw out the hero’s power sufficiently, either a god should reside inside the hero or a god should personally transform into a divine weapon.

And, the offer of Foltina herself transforming into divine weapon had been rejected. The holy sword was being dormant.

Then, there was only one option.

「Hiih, what are you doi──AH!? DON’TT! Don’t come insideee! OUCH, it hurtsss! HIGIIH!? I-I’m breakinggggggggg!!」

Aularodde arched her body backward like a shrimp. The pose she was doing looked artistic in its own way. She was holding her head while twitching uncontrollably. She was desperately trying to chase out Foltina’s split body that entered her body. Ch 468

She fused her "quintessence" with a former incarnation of the tree(former goddess) to give her Authority/Divinity back.

After that, several minutes that were hellish in various senses passed.

『It seems that you are formerly an incarnation of tree so I conjectured that it would go well but……I’m glad. You managed to fuse properly with it.』

「Don’t you have any human heart?」

Aularodde-san’s eyes had lost their highlight and she was hugging her knees while lying on the floor. Even her tone had changed. Kouki and others couldn’t look directly at her and quietly averted their gaze away.

『? We aren’t human you know?』

That was so. They were god. Ch 468

Avatars are the soul/will that govern the worlds laws be it Soul, Space-Time, Physical forces or the elements of nature.

Also Divinity/Quintessence=Conception:
This is Enti(green slime)

「……My, it’s true. Perhaps because it’s from different world, even I can’t sense it unless I focus, but certainly I’m feeling a presence of divinity. These children can sense it only because they are the beloved children of a wind god.」

Aularodde made an expression as though she was seeing an unnatural phenomenon. To think that there was someone who felt concerned for this terrifying brute, what kind of wind god with screw loose they could possibly be?

Hajime made a motion to throw away the mask. Aularodde’s expression immediately turned serious.

「It seems the small Heaven Tree is recovering well……yes, I can manage it somehow, but only if the other side is inclined to answer. This doesn’t seem like a mere god of foreign world, but a child of the avatar of another world, it won’t be difficult if I trace the presence of this wind――no, this conception.」Ch 388

Authority=Concept Magic.

Hajime took out the compass from his pocket at the same time with Tio starting the past replay.

「……You child of man, have created something truly impressive.」

She must have seen through the extraordinary ability of the compass in one glance. Lutria’s feeling went past shock and into a bit of exasperation.

「I understand what it is you wish to ask. It is whether that object’s ability is superior compared to a goddess’s authority or not isn’t it?」

「Yeah, your opinion?」

「Though the nature is different, I can safely say that it is equal in the relevant world.」Ch 492

The nature part is not a problem, but it proves that C.M. an artificial concept is not the same as authorities that trace back to the great trees. But they're equal, and it's supported by this:

「Or rather, the teleport destination, it got slightly shifted……this star tree is something, not bad.」

Hajime who grumbled that looked around and smiled wryly.

The place they teleported to seemed to be the edge of the star tree’s solitary island――above a cliff. They planned to teleport directly to the star tree’s location, but apparently the space was interfered with and they ended up on the island’s edge.

In the end, was it the star tree that was absurd with how it obstructed the Crystal Key’s teleportation ability, or was it the Crystal Key that was absurd with how it overcame the obstruction of a god of a world and teleported the user through even if it was only to the edge of the stronghold ? Ch 340

Star tree is the name of a great tree, and both crysral key and compass use Concept Magic. That make authority equal to CM2.

Conclusion: Soul has a form that define its the physical body, and gods souls have an extra aspect (Divinity/Quintessence=Conception) that govern the world through authority and it's equal to C.M.(Giving it both Law/CM2)

(using Google)
The tems "Quintessence" and "Ideal" are often used as synonyms, with "quintessence" meaning the most perfect or pure example of something, and "ideal" referring to a standard of perfection or a conceptual model to be strived for. Both terms describe a perfect form, although "quintessence" can also refer to the core essence or nature of something.

Spoiler: Dragon Factor

DRAGON is the first and ancestor of all snakes/dragons

During the incident where the shocking fact that Japan itself was a “dragon” came to light, Tio was in a state of being unable to move in the “Miniature Garden”.

It was because the “Dragon” possessed the authority that could interfere with all kinds of dragon. Even when it was only in a state of waking up from sleep, even mythological existences got quasi-revived under its control. That threat was still fresh in their memory.

In addition, Tio who was from a dragon race also wasn’t an exception from that influence. Ch 481

Most likely, it was one of the authorities of the “Dragon” that ought to be called as “legend reproduction miasma”. Ch 424

That was so. An out of bounds existence that had the means to do “pseudo-revival and subordination” of mythological dragons, not only existing dragons, and to do it in a world-wide scale. Normally nobody would easily reach an idea of comparing themselves to such existence. And even if somebody could, they wouldn’t go as far as carrying out the idea. Ch 481

Authority over dragons work on all kinds of Snakes/Dragons.

Tio and other members of dragon race could transform into dragon was because they as a race had “dragonification factor” mixed into their soul.

That story was something that Hajime and Tio had confirmed between them during the time before the final battle in Tortus, when Tio was learning how to transform other races into black dragon as her new magic.

After all, that magic worked by Tio duplicating her “dragon factor” and inserting it into the target.

「Not to mention, as the result of you continuously enduring the interference of the “Dragon”, you became able to sense your “dragon’s factor” even stronger than before──no, you became able to sense “dragon’s factor” even in other people. Anyone else would also easily reach the same idea if they know that.」Ch 481

Everywhere in sight there were oriental dragons, western dragons, giant snakes, mizuchi……

In addition, there were also fish swimming in the air, giant turtle on the ground, youma with dragon body with only their head coming from a different creature, or the reverse of a creature with only dragon head, etc, etc.

Every kind of creature with legend that was related to dragon were charging to here with no sanity that could be detected from them.

Compared to when they faced against a great swarm of youma in the past, certainly the combat force here was smaller number-wise. Ch 417

This was just a conjecture but, the circumstantial evidence was strong. Yes, it was the “Dragon”’s existence.

The irregular that could half-killed the goddess at that time even though she possessed an absolute advantage in this world.

There was no doubt its existence was resonating with the dragon type beings here. Most likely its influence was the reason why only the dragon type beings were able to slip out of their seals. Ch 417

Through the "dragon factor" DRAGON, the first/ancestor/progenitor Dragon has authority and influence over all of them across the multiverse. So this "dragon factor" which a part of the soul is equivalent to the concept of dragon within all being.


BTW, "Dragon factor" change their body into a dragon with similar form and powers to Tio

"Be reborn as one of my familiars—Dragon Queen’s Edict!”

Tio’s voice was filled with the majesty and power only a true ruler could muster.

“Graaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!”

The bound wolf let out a pained howl. It didn’t sound like any howl a real wolf would make, and it made Freid’s hairs stand on end.

“Wh-What did you just do?!” Freid asked, shaken. With several grotesque popping and cracking sounds, the three-headed wolf started to transform. And in the span of just three seconds, its three heads shrank into one, its entire body was covered with black scales, its tail and claws elongated, and wings sprouted from its back. It had been transformed into a black dragon. Vol 12 p217

and even function as soul by itself, consequently reviving the dead as dragons

On the other hand, Uranos’s eye had been fully healed, and the dragon let out a triumphant roar. However, Tio just smiled bewitchingly and said, “When did I ever say these dragons were the only ones I had?"

In a commanding voice that echoed even to the depths of hell, the dragon queen declared, “By the power vested in me, I command you to resurrect—Dragon Queen’s Call!”

Tio’s black mana surged up from the ground below. Or more specifically, it surged out of all of the dead monsters that were littering the battlefield. And a second later, their corpses started writhing. They began transforming into dragons, the same way monsters Tio captured with Dragon Queen’s Edict had. Vol 12 p257

Conclusion: "Dragon Factor" is an abstract aspect of all dragons souls across the verse and it's what define and govern all snakes/dragons. (Making it Concept type 3)

---

Summary:

1. The soul is a construct of thought that define the individual down to their fundamental level. Be it information, personal concepts like Dragon Factor or Quintessence.
2. Changing the soul could affect the person info, form and individuality(Who and What).
3. Soul elements(Will & Emotion) are conceptual and are capable of surpassing concepts type 2 if there is an increase in quality or quantity, which support their conceptual nature.

And for those reasons, the soul is either conceptual in nature(type 2 or 3) OR has conceptual aspects(Will, Emotions, Dragon factor or Quintessence).

---

Agree: @Lloydblitzed ,@LuffyRuffy46307 ,@BeTheWay1rst ,@ActuallySpaceMan42(Divinity/Quintessence) ,@Vietthai96(Divinity/Quintessence) ,@Elizhaa (Divinity/Quintessence)

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Lloydblitzed]

What type of CM do you propose exactly?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What type of CM do you propose exactly?

Pretty sure it's enough for type 3, but it's equal to universal laws and concept(type 2) and could even surpass them as concept magic.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yeah I can see CM type 2 with the proofs from the Soul/Concept section

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Yeah I can see CM type 2 with the proofs from the Soul/Concept section

It seems to make sense to me here

 

[Deonment]

Nope, fundamentally disagree
Nothing here proves souls are concepts/laws or whatnot
Ancient magic interfering with the concept/laws of reality does not prove souls are conceptual, and even as it is now, not everything ancient magic can manipulate is conceptual, see literally everything other ancient magic, creation (inorganic matter), space (space/boundaries), restoration (time), metamorphosis (organic matter), the other two you could argue in some way to be some kind of abstraction, but you can't for these, what's more likely is that the magic itself manipulates the law/concept behind the existence of the soul to reach a specific effect, rather than all souls being conceptual
Nothing in the law or individuality sections point towards them being concepts/laws, and in the latter, that's just a typical property of souls across fiction, that each soul is individual and whatnot, nothing about that makes souls conceptual, especially not a type 2 concept
Nothing in dragon factor makes it, or the soul, conceptual, or anything beyond the already accepted (that I disagree with) info type 2, at most the "Dragon" has AE2 based on a type 2 concept, but nothing beyond that
Nothing in the soul form makes soul concepts; once more, the soul reflecting the "true form" of a character is a common trait of souls in fiction and philosophy

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Nope, fundamentally disagree
Nothing here proves souls are concepts/laws or whatnot

Ok

Ancient magic interfering with the concept/laws of reality does not prove souls are conceptual, and even as it is now, not everything ancient magic can manipulate is conceptual, see literally everything other ancient magic, creation (inorganic matter), space (space/boundaries), restoration (time), metamorphosis (organic matter), the other two you could argue in some way to be some kind of abstraction,

It's a direct statment from someone who reached truth of the world and understand reality on fundamental level.

but you can't for these, what's more likely is that the magic itself manipulates the law/concept behind the existence of the soul to reach a specific effect, rather than all souls being conceptual

Prove it

Nothing in the law or individuality sections point towards them being concepts/laws, and in the latter,

Bruh, just read:

"overturning the laws of the universe"

Indeed, Kouki was creating this mana by burning away his own life. Abilities that overturned the natural laws of the universe always came with a steep cost...and they were practically never worth the price. Vol 12 p139

that's just a typical property of souls across fiction, that each soul is individual and whatnot, nothing about that makes souls conceptual, especially not a type 2 concept

Does their soul consist of fundamental information too?

Nothing in dragon factor makes it, or the soul, conceptual, or anything beyond the already accepted (that I disagree with) info type 2, at most the "Dragon" has AE2 based on a type 2 concept, but nothing beyond that
Nothing in the soul form makes soul concepts; once more, the soul reflecting the "true form" of a character is a common trait of souls in fiction and philosophy

Make a CRT for this cause all I see is "I disagree cause I don't think so"


All of that and you know nothing about the characters, the power system or the cosmology and I assume you haven't even read the novels. Could you atleast provide evidence for your claims?

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I agree with deon here. The principle is basically just correlation doesn't imply causation. I also agree that this is just generic soul talk, because I mean are souls not fundamental? Is something responsible for the mind not important towards ones self or individuality?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I agree with deon here. The principle is basically just correlation doesn't imply causation. I also agree that this is just generic soul talk, because I mean are souls not fundamental? Is something responsible for the mind not important towards ones self or individuality?

You know that the function and properties of the soul varries between verses. Right?
Take as example souls from JJK to Tensura Slime, we can't equalize the souls from those verses like we do with power systems.


Here is the characteristics of the soul in Arifureta:
1) Soul are "thought body" and consist of "elements". That's abstraction and

Element: essential or characteristic part of something abstract.

2) Souls are unique and integral to the individual.

3) Soul manipulation is treated as Law And CM manipulation. Any high form of soul manipulation is equated to Spirit/Soul Magic(Here) which prove that Spirit magic is different than reggular soul manipulation.

4) Changing the soul equal to manipulating universal laws

Indeed, Kouki was creating this mana by burning away his own life. Abilities that overturned the natural laws of the universe always came with a steep cost...and they were practically never worth the price. Vol 12 p139

This by itself is enough as the author equate laws with concepts and vice verse.

5) Soul consist of elements(consciousness, thought, memory...) and contain the fundamnental information of the person both 1&2.

6) Once a soul get stranghtened it could become a concept supperior to Concept (type 2) and govern all the aspect of reality(Concept Magic).

7) The soul is the most complex thing in the verse according to people who understand universal Laws and Concept type 2

According to Laus, Dylan and the others’ souls had been fused with the souls of ancient warriors. It was possible to split them apart again, and doing so would return the kids to normal. But this would be the most difficult application of spirit magic Laus would have ever attempted. It would be like trying to separate milk tea into milk and tea. He would have to take his time and proceed with caution.

“How long are we talking here?”

“At least a month per person.”

There was no way he’d be able to finish before Miledi ordered the attack on the church. Oscar had been hoping to heal his younger siblings in case the worst happened to them, but it seemed that wouldn’t be possible.

“Even with my help?” Lyutillis asked. Her evolution magic was part of the reason why she’d tagged along.

“That estimate is assuming you’re helping.”

In this world, there was nothing more complex and delicate than a person’s soul.

“There’s one other problem. I’d have to keep treating them indefinitely.”

“Lau-chan, by indefinitely...do you mean even after you heal them?”

“Yes, even after I manage to separate the souls, it’ll be dangerous to try extracting the implanted one. The fusion is too complete. If I don’t regularly come back to treat them, their souls will start to mix again.”

In other words, they’d need Laus’s treatment for the rest of their lives. Some people looked despondent, while others seemed glad treatment was possible at all. ZVol 5 p360

Lyutillis and Laus are able to manipuate informations(1&2) and soul, but they find it extermly difficult to separate two souls after they fused. This prove that soul is something complex even to info manipulator.

The whole verse casualy manipulate universal laws and concepts, but consider manipulating the soul as something forbidden or beyond them.

「Still, it was something that happened through great stretch of time. It will take time for her to recover fully. Originally, soul is a forbidden domain that even god cannot easily interfere with. Not to mention she is a goddess of creation herself. Her soul is fundamentally different from human soul. No matter how powerful and transcendence you all are, be aware of the potentially fatal risk for a child of man to reach your hand toward such thing.」

Aularodde’s gaze moved toward Hajime, then Yue and others.

That was a warning from a goddess (even if formerly) who had protected innumerable life of her world for countless years.

It was exactly because Hajime and others had heard that warning before this that they didn’t keep trying to force Ua Alto’s recovery and chose to ask other goddess. Ch 459

 

[Community_Gamer]

I agree with @BestMGQScalerEver and @Deonment. I have conveyed the same sentiments several times before

 

[Deonment]

It's a direct statment from someone who reached truth of the world and understand reality on fundamental level.

Doesn't change my point

Prove it

Why would I have to prove that matter, organic or inorganic, being conceptual/law is a stretch, and that it is far less of an assumption to make that they simply just control whatever fundamental thing governs the existence of the thing the magic affects

Bruh, just read:

"overturning the laws of the universe"

Okay I couldn't see that because quotes in spoilers are ***** for whatever reason and can't expand if you have a quote in a spoiler (just click on the thing and look at the scan, you'll see that you can't see everything and there's no Expand option to see the rest of it, they're just ****** for whatever reason)

Anyways that's neat but it doesn't exactly show that the soul is a law, just that it can counteract them (if literal)

Does their soul consist of fundamental information too?

Nope, but they don't need to, especially seeing as the thing you're using in question is such a common belief in fiction about the nature of souls, that the only things that don't have the soul that way, are the ones in which the soul is one with some sort of underlying unity (ie Brahman, God) or the soul is something mental (ie Buddhism)

Either way, being composed of info doesn't make the soul more conceptual or more of a law

Make a CRT for this cause ll I see is "I disagree cause I don't think so"

That's just a misreading of what I'm saying, but anyways, that's just wrong
I'm saying that dragon factor, being a characteristic of the soul does not make the soul more conceptual when you yourself already got the soul accepted to be info type 2
And the form of the soul thing is once more just a common trope in fiction, where the soul (which is typically taken as the truest self), ergo it reflecting their true body, whether it be their original self as an avatar or taking on a body away from their baseline

All of that and you know nothing about the characters, the power system or the cosmology and I assume you haven't even read the novels. Could you atleast provide evidence for your claims?

I do not have to read the novels, I do not have to provide evidence for my claims when I am judging them based upon the standards we have, and the fact is that the evidence (whether on the profiles or in this crt) simply is not enough to make the soul conceptual

You know that the function and properties of the soul varries between verses. Right?
Take as example souls from JJK to Tensura Slime, we can't equalize the souls from those verses like we do with power systems.

Of course, but the issue is that you are attempting to take such general characteristics of a soul across what a soul is believed to be and present them as evidence for the soul being conceptual

1) Soul are "thought body" and consist of "elements". That's abstraction and

Nothing not covered by info, and that's a very selective reading of elements rather than the usual magical ones or elements in terms of what makes something else up

2) Souls are unique and integral to the individual.

Covered this post earlier

3) Soul manipulation is treated as Law And CM manipulation. Any high form of soul manipulation is equated to Spirit/Soul Magic(Here) which prove that Spirit magic is different than reggular soul manipulation.

Doesn't make souls law/CM, just means that they are fundamental laws on that level

4) Changing the soul equal to manipulating universal laws
This by itself is enough as the author equate laws with concepts and vice verse

No, absolutely not. Not only would that in theory be covered by what you said with point 3, it doesn't say that messing with the soul is what is overturning the laws of the universe, its saying that abilities that overturn the laws come with a steep price, and considering that he's using up his soul/life force to get this power, the power he's getting despite his mana getting cut is what's overturning laws, with his soul being used as the price

5) Soul consist of elements(consciousness, thought, memory...) and contain the fundamnental information of the person both 1&2.

Doesn't make it any more conceptual

6) Once a soul get stranghtened it could become a concept supperior to Concept (type 2) and govern all the aspect of reality(Concept Magic).

No, your own scans point out how you need a strong enough will to make/control a concept, not that the soul itself becomes a concept, and considering conception is already accepted to be a concept, it really isn't a stretch to assume that

7) The soul is the most complex thing in the verse according to people who understand universal Laws and Concept type 2
Lyutillis and Laus are able to manipuate informations(1&2) and soul, but they find it extermly difficult to separate two souls after they fused. This prove that soul is something complex even to info manipulator.

The whole verse casualy manipulate universal laws and concepts, but consider manipulating the soul as something forbidden or beyond them.

Doesn't make it more conceptual, it can entirely be due to the fact that the soul is a living, thinking, breathing being, who is the source of element/conception, and ergo ******* with them is a bit messier than trying to manipulate deterministic phenomena

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Doesn't change my point

Disagreeing with the author that' your problem.

Why would I have to prove that matter, organic or inorganic, being conceptual/law is a stretch, and that it is far less of an assumption to make that they simply just control whatever fundamental thing governs the existence of the thing the magic affects

You're the one claiming they're not. This is fiction anything could be a concept and there is nothing on the wiki page that says otherwise.

Okay I couldn't see that because quotes in spoilers are ***** for whatever reason and can't expand if you have a quote in a spoiler (just click on the thing and look at the scan, you'll see that you can't see everything and there's no Expand option to see the rest of it, they're just ****** for whatever reason)

Anyways that's neat but it doesn't exactly show that the soul is a law, just that it can counteract them (if literal)

So you haven't even the scans. Countering what law exactly?

A peson manipulate his soul forcebly="overturning the laws of the universe"

Nope, but they don't need to, especially seeing as the thing you're using in question is such a common belief in fiction about the nature of souls, that the only things that don't have the soul that way, are the ones in which the soul is one with some sort of underlying unity (ie Brahman, God) or the soul is something mental (ie Buddhism)

Either way, being composed of info doesn't make the soul more conceptual or more of a law

Except when the verse consider it a Law/Concept.

That's just a misreading of what I'm saying, but anyways, that's just wrong
I'm saying that dragon factor, being a characteristic of the soul does not make the soul more conceptual when you yourself already got the soul accepted to be info type 2
And the form of the soul thing is once more just a common trope in fiction, where the soul (which is typically taken as the truest self), ergo it reflecting their true body, whether it be their original self as an avatar or taking on a body away from their baseline

"Dragon factor" is what define dragon across the multiverse, and it's a part of something abstract soul. So it's the concept(type 3) of dragon within all beings. And yeah concepts could be covered under info manipulation like again Tensura Slime.

I do not have to read the novels, I do not have to provide evidence for my claims when I am judging them based upon the standards we have, and the fact is that the evidence (whether on the profiles or in this crt) simply is not enough to make the soul conceptual

So you don't want to read or provide any scans, just disagree cause you think so. (Even though two CRT were accepted by staff regardless of your feelings)

Of course, but the issue is that you are attempting to take such general characteristics of a soul across what a soul is believed to be and present them as evidence for the soul being conceptual

Details, that's the difference.

They are more just your average definition of "soul". Regular soul across fiction don't treat them as Law/Concept, have them being the source a person info, integral to the person or have a direct statment of them being the most complex thing in verse tht regularly manipulate said laws and concepts.

Nothing not covered by info, and that's a very selective reading of elements rather than the usual magical ones or elements in terms of what makes something else up

They're different, make a CRT for it.


Element are literal fragments of the soul while the info are in coded in it.

Covered this post earlier

No, you haven't

Combined with the other stuff it prove that the soul is an abstract fundamental aspect.

Doesn't make souls law/CM, just means that they are fundamental laws on that level

You're own words. And the author use the terms law and concept interchangeably.

No, absolutely not. Not only would that in theory be covered by what you said with point 3, it doesn't say that messing with the soul is what is overturning the laws of the universe, its saying that abilities that overturn the laws come with a steep price, and considering that he's using up his soul/life force to get this power, the power he's getting despite his mana getting cut is what's overturning laws, with his soul being used as the price

What are talking about?

He literally manipulate his soul and convert it into mana. "Burning away his life" is "overturning the laws"

“By converting something else! I don’t know if he’s using up his life force or his soul or what, but he’s transforming it all into mana! It’s probably something he can do because he can use Limit Break! Either way, this isn’t good!”

“Goddammit, Kouki, come back to your senses already!”

Indeed, Kouki was creating this mana by burning away his own life. Abilities that overturned the natural laws of the universe always came with a steep cost...and they were practically never worth the price. Vol 12 p139

Note: Limit Break is a form of soul manipulation to amplify stats.

Again soul is complex and "forbidden domain that no son of man should touch"

Doesn't make it any more conceptual

It help with the abstraction part

No, your own scans point out how you need a strong enough will to make/control a concept, not that the soul itself becomes a concept, and considering conception is already accepted to be a concept, it really isn't a stretch to assume that

Oh yeah my bad I forgot to add this Soul=Will and if you have avtually read the OP you'll know that emotion is part of the soul.

Doesn't make it more conceptual, it can entirely be due to the fact that the soul is a living, thinking, breathing being, who is the source of element/conception, and ergo ******* with them is a bit messier than trying to manipulate "deterministic phenomena"

Prove it. All of this is just your own assumption supported by nothing.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Reading the OP and the scans you gave in later posts, I don't really see how Souls can be concepts

Soul magic is an ancient magic, sure, and concept magic is basically what you get when you understand all ancient magic, but that doesn't really make the soul conceptual in any way.

About the soul being fundamental part, we by default assume a soul is a fundamental aspect. That's why HGR requires one to regenerate from physical body, soul, mind, and another fundamental aspect.

I also don't see why Dragon factors here are a concept rather than just information type 2 engraved on/contained in the soul, since we already know Souls are info type 2 (already accepted).

And finally, the Will part, that's just saying you need a super extraordinary willpower to use concept magic and/or bend concepts and laws, nothing more than that.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Soul magic is an ancient magic, sure, and concept magic is basically what you get when you understand all ancient magic, but that doesn't really make the soul conceptual in any way.

Knowledge is nothing without a will behind it. Understaing A.M. is requirement but that's not all, concept magic is literally your will evolving into a concept supperior to A.M.

"Concept magic is exactly what it sounds like. It can bring forth any concept its user can imagine, granting them the powers of a god. However, even if you manage to collect all the ancient magic, mastering concept magic won’t be easy. For concept magic operates not on theory, but on force of will. You will need an unbelievably powerful will to bend this magic to your desires.” Vol 8 p273

Literally your will become a concept. And there is loop holes, like instead of having all A.M. you could just get help from people with A.M. that you're lacking

So far, they hadn’t been able toactivate it even once. They’d tried meditating, using restoration magic to relive past tragedies and rile themselves up, and had even used spirit magic to manipulate their emotions. Oscar had prepared a bunch of artifacts to try to imbue with concept magic if they ever managed to get it working as well, but despite their best efforts and the combined might of all of their mana, the seven of them just couldn’t seem to get concept magic working.

They wanted to find a way into Ehit’s domain, or a way to drag him down to Tortus, as well as a way to kill him. However, every time their attempts fizzled out, it felt like they were being told their desire to destroy him wasn’t strong enough, which was a lot more mentally taxing than they’d initially expected. Zero Vol 6 p293

Miledi explained that they’d finally succeeded in creating things with concept magic. They’d managed to create multiple trump cards against Ehit...all while completely wasted.

The first thing they’d made was the Godslayer Dagger. It was a small, twenty-centimeter-long dagger with a sky-blue blade imbued with the power to kill gods. The second thing they’d created was the Compass of Eternal Paths. It looked more like a pocket watch with just one needle than a compass, but the concept magic it was imbued with pointed the needle to whatever the user desired most. Finally, the last thing they’d created was the Arrow of Boundaries. It was an arrow made of black quartz, and it was imbued with concept magic that allowed it to destroy any and all boundaries. Zero Vol 6 p298

Each one of them has a single A.M. and as you could read their desire/emotion/will are what become the concept.

“It is precisely because he lost Yue that he managed to reach this level. You heard what he said as well, did you not?”

The two of them stared blankly at her for a second, then shivered in fear as they realized what concept Hajime must have actualized.

His bottomless rage at having lost Yue had coalesced into an overwhelming apathy. What value was there in a world devoid of his beloved? What reason was there to continue existing in a world without Yue? In Hajime’s mind, there was none. He wouldn’t forgive this world for stealing Yue away from him. Nor would he accept the existence of such a world.

That was why he’d been able to cast concept magic that erased the very existence of everything his chains touched. Hope had driven him to create the Crystal Key, but the complete opposite feeling, despair, fueled his current concept magic. Vol 11 p131

A pillar of gold and crimson light shot up out of the Sanctuary. There was so much mana in that pillar that even Shea’s and the others’ jaws dropped open. The will, the concept pouring off of that mana could be felt even from here, and the soldiers fell silent as they looked up at it. Everyone else did too. They were too enamored by that spiral of crimson-gold light to do anything but stare, after all. Vol 13 p247

And as I posted in the OP will is part of the soul.

About the soul being fundamental part, we by default assume a soul is a fundamental aspect. That's why HGR requires one to regenerate from physical body, soul, mind, and another fundamental aspect.

Ok

I also don't see why Dragon factors here are a concept rather than just information type 2 engraved on/contained in the soul, since we already know Souls are info type 2 (already accepted).

You know that concepts could be included in info type 2. "Dragon factor" is what define all dragons across the verse. That sound like a concept

Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat-applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly. However, through this power, one can change the universe's fundamental principles on the highest level.

Each concept is linked with its respective "object". In this way, altering the concept will change every object linked to it in the same way the concept itself was changed.

If "Dragon factor" was implanted into a living being or a corpse. It will turn them into dragons.

Tio and other members of dragon race could transform into dragon was because they as a race had “dragonification factor” mixed into their soul.

That story was something that Hajime and Tio had confirmed between them during the time before the final battle in Tortus, when Tio was learning how to transform other races into black dragon as her new magic.

After all, that magic worked by Tio duplicating her “dragon factor” and inserting it into the target. Ch 481

I think there something about "fairy factor"

「Fu-fu-fu, I won’t let everyone think that Netemp is better than my anymore! Master! Please look! I can also do something like thisss!」

There wasn’t even any time for question. Etemp-san whose tension kept increasing without limit suddenly started to shine dazzlingly.

Then right after that, a ball of light was converging beside Netemp Mother――

「Transcendentally beautiful fairy Etemp-chan, is✩here♪」

Left hand on the waist, right hand forming peace sign beside the eye, one leg lifted up to bend backward in the air, and a lovely wink that made it looked like stars were sprinkled from it!

Etemp-san was there looking completely like the sagacious figure of a “god’s apostle”, but with a pose that looked like a certain annoying ledy. Ch 387

Although on her back there were three pairs of wings that she didn’t have before. Yes, it wasn’t silvery wings, but beautiful half transparent fairy wings that looked like they were stacked up geometrically. Ch 387

「You there! I’m a fairy!」

「N-no, you are composed of thought element of another world, so by definition you are apparition――」

「I – am – a – fai – ry!」

「……Yes, you are a fairy. I can’t believe that you are really reborn as a fairy by your own effort. Especially when the world is at its current state.」

If they were here inside the Heaven Tree, there was a foundation for “fairy” to be born here. However, as expected an apparition that was born from the flow of conception of another world couldn’t do that here. Ch 387

Absorbing the "fairy thing" caused her body to change when she materialised. So yeah it define something.

And finally, the Will part, that's just saying you need a super extraordinary willpower to use concept magic and/or bend concepts and laws, nothing more than that.

Because your will itself become the concept. And you forgot about emotions.


Edit: Forgot about these:

After the antagonist(Ehit) was hit with info erasure, a "shade"(emotions) of him survived that:

“That thing really is a monster.”

“Mhm. I almost pity it.”

It looked like a giant lump of flesh. Various creatures’ bones, muscles, and skin had been smashed together to form its body, and numerous limbs stuck out of the misshapen lump at odd angles. It also possessed several writhing tentacles that looked utterly grotesque. Simply staring at it was enough to sap one’s sanity with how deranged it looked.

Hajime couldn’t sense anything of Ehitruje’s personality or will from the creature. The existence-denying bullet had indeed killed Ehitruje himself. The only reason he hadn’t completely disappeared was because his attachment to eternal life and desire to trample over everything were so strong that a shade of him composed of only those feelings had remained.

The creature that had once been Ehitruje let out another scream.

“Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!” Vol 13 p223

“All right, you half-dead shade. I’ve got only one thing left to say to you.”

“Yeah.”

The two of them sucked in a deep breath and shouted in unison, “You get what you ******* deserve, you bastard!”

They finished pulling the trigger and the bullet shot out with a surprisingly quiet noise.How dare you use my body to hurt Hajime?! Not even a thousand deaths can atone for such a sin!

Hajime’s thoughts were, of course, in a similar vein to Yue’s. The two of them loved each other so deeply that any time the other was hurt in any way, shape, or form, they immediately flew into a rage. Moreover, the concept packed into that bullet—that one should pay for the sins they’ve wrought—was akin to an encapsulation of the feelings of every single person across the history of Tortus that had been toyed with and trampled on by Ehitruje. A single streak of light shot across the room and, small though it was, it contained the most powerful concept magic that had ever been. All the pain and suffering Ehitruje had inflicted on humanity over his long, long lifetime was coming back to smite him. Vol 13 p231

His "Shade" was absorbing the concepts arround him which resulted in this:

「The conception dwelling within Ehito and the conception within us apostles, and in addition sacred beasts that existed in legend and vast amount of conception directed toward magical beasts were mixed chaotically within that lump of meat.」

「And there, master. You shot that conception into it.」

Hajime’s last concept magic “Returning the Agony You Spread Out Back at You It’s Payback For Everything You Have Done, You Shitty Bastard” that finished off a god.

「Within that chaos, the negative emotions from millions, trillions of death that Ehito and we caused brought the concept of death to us, and as the result, we were annihilated together with Ehito down to our particles but……」

「Where did the prayer filled with faithful and pure wish, the positive conception go to? This is the answer.」

The people of Tortus had continuously believed in the existence of a virtuous Ehito. That conception also dwelled within the apostles. It also wasn’t difficult to imagine that other conceptions other than fear were also residing within the monsters of the holy precinct. Ch 387

Conception are just strong emotions and strong Emotions of death=Concept of death

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Knowledge is nothing without a will behind it. Understaing A.M. is requirement but that's not all, concept magic is literally your will evolving into a concept supperior to A.M.

Literally your will become a concept. And there is loop holes, like instead of having all A.M. you could just get help from people with A.M. that you're lacking


Each one of them has a single A.M. and as you could read their desire/emotion/will are what become the concept.


And as I posted in the OP will is part of the soul.

This is quite literally just "they can manipulate concepts through sheer will", it's not even saying their will is their very concept of will. It's cool conceptual manipulation yea, but it means nothing for this stuff being conceptual itself. Hell, having it so one can manipulate concepts through force of will or comprehension isn't even an uncommon thing, but that doesn't make those instances suddenly have a conceptual mind.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

This is quite literally just "they can manipulate concepts through sheer will", it's not even saying their will is their very concept of will. It's cool conceptual manipulation yea, but it means nothing for this stuff being conceptual itself. Hell, having it so one can manipulate concepts through force of will or comprehension isn't even an uncommon thing, but that doesn't make those instances suddenly have a conceptual mind.

Manipulate what? Their is no concept to manipulate.

I'm not repeating this s**t read the OP. The scans don't say that and you forgot to mention desire/emotion.

They need a strong will/emotion to create a concept, because those things became the concept itself.

His bottomless rage at having lost Yue had coalesced into an overwhelming apathy. What value was there in a world devoid of his beloved? What reason was there to continue existing in a world without Yue? In Hajime’s mind, there was none. He wouldn’t forgive this world for stealing Yue away from him. Nor would he accept the existence of such a world.

That was why he’d been able to cast concept magic that erased the very existence of everything his chains touched. Hope had driven him to create the Crystal Key, but the complete opposite feeling, despair, fueled his current concept magic. Vol 11 p131

His emotions was so strong, it remain after he gave up on erasing everything

This was the final concept magic he’d prepared to take down Ehitruje. The concept magic that denied the existence of anything it touched, the very same concept magic he’d created when he’d felt true despair after Yue had been stolen from him at the Demon Lord’s castle. When his chains had disappeared, so had the concept magic he’d imbued them with, but by using Expanded Transmutation, he’d managed to salvage a thimbleful’s worth of existence-denying material, which he’d then hidden in his back tooth. Vol 13 p217

That's what creation magic does imbue matter with magical, spiritual or conceptual properties.

Another:

Laus turned to Alfard with a strange expression on his face and asked, “Your Majesty, please tell us. What was the true nature of that multicolored barrier the first hero created with nothing but force of will? What does it mean to convert your willpower into magic?”

The answer to that was the key to beating Ehit. It was what Miledi and the others had come to Dastia to learn. The Liberators stiffened, nervously awaiting Alfard’s answer.

Alfard looked pretty nervous himself, and he took a deep breath before saying in a solemn voice, “Concept magic.” ZVol 6 p290

Concept Magic=Will

Here is Lyuttilis who could manipulate info(1&2) stating this

“Lyu, you’re better at appraising than anyone. What are you getting from this barrier?”

“I’m not sure. It doesn’t fall under any category of ancient magic. All I’m picking up is this strong will that says, ‘nothing shall despoil this sanctuary,’” Lyutillis replied, shaking her head in confusion ZVol 6 p170

Her power work on everytjing in the verse including A.M. but all she get from C.M. is a will.


And they accidently destroyed this barrier with their willpower.

"Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!” Miledi shouted, her cries echoing through the sky above the Divine Mountain.

If this didn’t work, nothing would. However, no one present even considered the possibility of failure. They all believed in Miledi...and they all wished for revolution from the bottom of their hearts. And so, they shouted together with her, hoping that their determination had the power to change the world. They fervently prayed for a future where everyone could live as they pleased, a future where everyone would be free to live in harmony if they so chose, a future free from Ehit’s shackles.

“It’s time to liberate this world!” all seven of them shouted at once. And in that instant, they felt linked to each other in a way that had never happened before. They were so perfectly in sync that their wills melded into one. And they could feel that singular will give birth to something new.

At that moment, they all grew keenly aware that they would succeed.

“Breaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak!”

Cracks started to show along the multicolored barrier. Whatever will was sustaining it seemed to be losing against that of Miledi and her friends. ZVol 6 p171

They coudn't destroy this barrier till they were "synched".


And another example

She must have a reason why she couldn’t possibly give up. It was a terrific willpower.

Perhaps that was why, it occurred.

“She” herself must not have realized what she was doing.

Richly colored light was emitted from “her” as she crawled desperately. Hajime and Yue didn’t know what it was. They had no knowledge of it.

When they looked at “him”, it seemed that “he” knew what it was. It must be a divine act. But, apparently it was something that should be completely impossible based on how astonished “he” looked.

“He” attacked in a panicked hurry, but all of his attacks were swallowed by the richly colored light and didn’t reach “her”. Far from that, it seemed that he couldn’t even touch the light. He was getting cornered toward the wall as the light kept spreading.

“He” turned a gaze that was a mix of resignation and anger toward “her” who wouldn’t even look at him anymore. At the end his face turned expressionless and he teleported away to somewhere.

After that, “She” arrived at this place, the central control room with desperate effort. But,

「So, this is her huh.」

「……I wonder what did she want to do.」

She didn’t reach. She was crying while reaching out with her hand, her expression was dyed with guilt. In the end she expired while her mouth was saying something. Mysteriously, the richly colored light that denied everything from reaching her still remained even after that.

There is no manipulation, their very will/emotion become a concept, and it keep existing independently from them because it's just that will/emotion.

Similar to it:

My ancestor apparently possessed a very powerful special magic that was a cross between metamorphosis and spirit magic.”

Tio suspected he’d used that special magic to encode his grudge, the knowledge of how to perform the ultimate transformation, and a piece of his soul into his scales. Every dragonman’s soul was imbued with the dragonification factor that allowed them to transform, so putting that plus a hidden, deep-seated grudge into an inanimate object made it seem like it was concept magic despite being fundamentally different. Vol 12 p352

An object with an emotion was mistankenly thought to be C.M. Why? Because will/emotion=concept

In conclusion C.M. is will/emotion becoming a concept. Make a CRT to peove otherwise.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Forgot about these:


After the antagonist(Ehit) was hit with info erasure, a "shade"(emotions) of him survived that:

“That thing really is a monster.”

“Mhm. I almost pity it.”

It looked like a giant lump of flesh. Various creatures’ bones, muscles, and skin had been smashed together to form its body, and numerous limbs stuck out of the misshapen lump at odd angles. It also possessed several writhing tentacles that looked utterly grotesque. Simply staring at it was enough to sap one’s sanity with how deranged it looked.

Hajime couldn’t sense anything of Ehitruje’s personality or will from the creature. The existence-denying bullet had indeed killed Ehitruje himself. The only reason he hadn’t completely disappeared was because his attachment to eternal life and desire to trample over everything were so strong that a shade of him composed of only those feelings had remained.

The creature that had once been Ehitruje let out another scream.

“Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!” Vol 13 p223

“All right, you half-dead shade. I’ve got only one thing left to say to you.”

“Yeah.”

The two of them sucked in a deep breath and shouted in unison, “You get what you ******* deserve, you bastard!”

They finished pulling the trigger and the bullet shot out with a surprisingly quiet noise.How dare you use my body to hurt Hajime?! Not even a thousand deaths can atone for such a sin!

Hajime’s thoughts were, of course, in a similar vein to Yue’s. The two of them loved each other so deeply that any time the other was hurt in any way, shape, or form, they immediately flew into a rage. Moreover, the concept packed into that bullet—that one should pay for the sins they’ve wrought—was akin to an encapsulation of the feelings of every single person across the history of Tortus that had been toyed with and trampled on by Ehitruje. A single streak of light shot across the room and, small though it was, it contained the most powerful concept magic that had ever been. All the pain and suffering Ehitruje had inflicted on humanity over his long, long lifetime was coming back to smite him. Vol 13 p231

His "Shade" was absorbing the concepts arround him which resulted in this:

「The conception dwelling within Ehito and the conception within us apostles, and in addition sacred beasts that existed in legend and vast amount of conception directed toward magical beasts were mixed chaotically within that lump of meat.」

「And there, master. You shot that conception into it.」

Hajime’s last concept magic “Returning the Agony You Spread Out Back at You It’s Payback For Everything You Have Done, You Shitty Bastard” that finished off a god.

「Within that chaos, the negative emotions from millions, trillions of death that Ehito and we caused brought the concept of death to us, and as the result, we were annihilated together with Ehito down to our particles but……」

「Where did the prayer filled with faithful and pure wish, the positive conception go to? This is the answer.」

The people of Tortus had continuously believed in the existence of a virtuous Ehito. That conception also dwelled within the apostles. It also wasn’t difficult to imagine that other conceptions other than fear were also residing within the monsters of the holy precinct. Ch 387

Conception are just strong emotions and strong Emotions of death=Concept of death

 

[Community_Gamer]

Manipulate what? Their is no concept to manipulate.

I'm not repeating this s**t read the OP. The scans don't say that and you forgot to mention desire/emotion.

They need a strong will/emotion to create a concept, because those things became the concept itself.

His emotions was so strong, it remain after he gave up on erasing everything

That's what creation magic does imbue matter with magical, spiritual or conceptual properties.

Another:

Concept Magic=Will

Here is Lyuttilis who could manipulate info(1&2) stating this

Her power work on everytjing in the verse including A.M. but all she get from C.M. is a will.


And they accidently destroyed this barrier with their willpower.

They coudn't destroy this barrier till they were "synched".


And another example

There is no manipulation, their very will/emotion become a concept, and it keep existing independently from them because it's just that will/emotion.

By this logic, their will/emotions would always be conceptual, which only begs...wtf is concept magic and why would they need it? What you are proposing would make sense if they didn't rely on a medium to create or manipulate abstract concepts. You haven't really concretely demonstrated that Will = Concepts, just that supernatural will and mana backed by that will can manipulate or create concepts. This is literally what the text says when explaining what concept magic is.

So if I'm wrong, then please enlighten me, wtf is Concept Magic, and why do they even need it if what you say is true?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

By this logic, their will/emotions would always be conceptual,

yes/maybe

That's actually the case for apparitions, their instinct and emotions are their conception. Conception is the energy of the collective unconscious, and the "subconscious" part was a mistranslation.

Plus have you forgot how broken Willpower is in Arifureta, they can resist every hax in the verse with it, regardless of the gap between the caster and the target.

which only begs...wtf is concept magic and why would they need it?

Strong will/emotions, because it's omnipotent and could do anything without restrictions and it's a foreign concept(Acau type 4) outside the system, which could explain why A.M. doesn't govern it.

What you are proposing would make sense if they didn't rely on a medium to create or manipulate abstract concepts.

You mean mana?

You haven't really concretely demonstrated that Will = Concepts, just that supernatural will and mana backed by that will can manipulate or create concepts. This is literally what the text says when explaining what concept magic is.

I did and even added emotions.

It don't back anything, just carried by mana as a medium cause it's too abstract.

Concept Magic: An Age of God Magic that allows one to interfere with the laws of the world and impress concepts upon it. By raising a powerful wish or desire with Spirit Magic and Evolution Magic, it can be raised to a level of a concept before being forcefully materialized with magical power.

Mana carrying will/concept:

Their voices echoed through the room like the tolling of a bell. The two of them lit up, glowing brighter than the sun. The swirling galaxy of mana around them erupted like a supernova and the room was inundated in red and golden light, blotting out everything. The mana carried with it an unshakable, indestructible will. Vol 10 p240

A pillar of gold and crimson light shot up out of the Sanctuary. There was so much mana in that pillar that even Shea’s and the others’ jaws dropped open. The will, the concept pouring off of that mana could be felt even from here, and the soldiers fell silent as they looked up at it. Everyone else did too. They were too enamored by that spiral of crimson-gold light to do anything but stare, after all. Vol 13 p247

emotions and memories:

"What’s going on!?”

“I-Is that a movie?”

“It’s showing a... dark cavern?”

A projection of an unfamiliar location appeared in front of Shea and the others. The projection was reflected on a thin film of dense mist, and the projection itself was made out of mana. Shea and the others gazed at the strange scene, forgetting that they were supposed to be leaving. Vol 10 p230

Deep within the dark cavern was a four-way intersection. Within that intersection stood a rabbit with white fur. Its legs were oddly enlarged, bulging dark veins running down their length. Another pulse of mana blew through the party, this one carrying emotions with it.

“Is this... unease? Or impatience?"

“I sense fear as well... I think this video’s a memory.”

“I suspect it is Master’s memory. A memory of his time in the place he describes as the abyss.”

The girls’ deductions proved correct. As the video continued to play, more emotions poured into the mana pulsing out of Hajime. He watched the unknown monster with fear and unease. No one had any idea how or why videos of Hajime’s past were playing, but everyone was certain this was indeed Hajime’s past, and the feelings being transmitted through his mana were his feelings. He had said almost nothing about the time he’d spent in the abyss before meeting Yue. Those events were behind him now, and Hajime wasn’t the kind of guy to brag about how much suffering he’d been through or how hard his life was or anything. Vol 10 p230

there is also mana carrying fundamental informations:

Of course, it hadn’t been easy. Absorbing an opponent’s magic in the middle of combat and then recreating it took an immense amount of skill. But luckily, Oscar Orcus was the greatest synergist who had ever lived, so of course he’d managed it. His umbrella’s mana-absorbing ability had allowed him to siphon some of the disintegration beam that had been hitting it, and his glasses had let him analyze all of the information stored in that mana, then recreate it with his gauntlet. And as a result, his gauntlet was now capable of using disintegration magic. ZVol 6 p159

Which is consistent with the soul being a complex construct of mana.

To materialize into reality, a concept need mana as a vessel.

So if I'm wrong, then please enlighten me, wtf is Concept Magic, and why do they even need it if what you say is true?

Will and emotions can't become a concepts unless they're conceptual to begin with.

「Ahaha, there is no way that is the case! You made it sounds like the great creator of the black glasses was a maid maniac who created this in order to secretly photo maids for eternal preservation, sheesh-」

「Thanks a lot for the concrete hypothesis. It sounds really possible to be the case yeah.」

It felt like this “Cursed Black Glasses” was obsession toward glasses and maid that had been sublimated into concept magic after going through millenniums of time. SS CURSED BLACK GLASSES

“It’s time to liberate this world!” all seven of them shouted at once. And in that instant, they felt linked to each other in a way that had never happened before. They were so perfectly in sync that their wills melded into one. And they could feel that singular will give birth to something new.

At that moment, they all grew keenly aware that they would succeed.

“Breaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak!”

Cracks started to show along the multicolored barrier. Whatever will was sustaining it seemed to be losing against that of Miledi and her friends. ZVol 6 p171

Hajime’s last concept magic “Returning the Agony You Spread Out Back at You It’s Payback For Everything You Have Done, You Shitty Bastard” that finished off a god.

「Within that chaos, the negative emotions from millions, trillions of death that Ehito and we caused brought the concept of death to us, and as the result, we were annihilated together with Ehito down to our particles but……」Ch 387

It's simply a matter of quality over quantity. An increase in willpower/emotions=conceptual potency.

And conception which is a conceptual energy consist of emotions and memories.

 

[Community_Gamer]

What does quintessence mean?

Look it up

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

What does quintessence mean?

True nature/essence of something if we talk about it as word alone, depends if we're talking about whatever it could mean in-verse

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

True nature/essence of something if we talk about it as word alone, depends if we're talking about whatever it could mean in-verse

Avatars soul is quintessence of their world energy(Ki, Mana, Blessing...), said energy is what make up their souls.

We have this statment about avatar souls

「Still, it was something that happened through great stretch of time. It will take time for her to recover fully. Originally, soul is a forbidden domain that even god cannot easily interfere with. Not to mention she is a goddess of creation herself. Her soul is fundamentally different from human soul. No matter how powerful and transcendence you all are, be aware of the potentially fatal risk for a child of man to reach your hand toward such thing.」

Aularodde’s gaze moved toward Hajime, then Yue and others.

That was a warning from a goddess (even if formerly) who had protected innumerable life of her world for countless years.

It was exactly because Hajime and others had heard that warning before this that they didn’t keep trying to force Ua Alto’s recovery and chose to ask other goddess. Ch 459

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Disagree, this is AE at best.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Avatars soul is quintessence of their world energy(Ki, Mana, Blessing...), said energy is what make up their souls.

We have this statment about avatar souls

Sure, but this also doesn't help with anything mentioned being a different fundamental aspect.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Disagree, this is AE at best.

Type?

Sure, but this also doesn't help with anything mentioned being a different fundamental aspect.

(Using Google)
The tems "Quintessence" and "Ideal" are often used as synonyms, with "quintessence" meaning the most perfect or pure example of something, and "ideal" referring to a standard of perfection or a conceptual model to be strived for. Both terms describe a perfect form, although "quintessence" can also refer to the core essence or nature of something.


And according to the wiki standars "ideal" qualify as a concept, Take a look at souls in Bastard!!.


Avatars are the will/soul that govern the world's laws be it Time, Space, fundamental forces or elements of nature. Add to it the fact that their soul which is quintessence is fundamentally different and it's the source of their Authority=Concept Magic.

Hajime took out the compass from his pocket at the same time with Tio starting the past replay.

「……You child of man, have created something truly impressive.」

She must have seen through the extraordinary ability of the compass in one glance. Lutria’s feeling went past shock and into a bit of exasperation.

「I understand what it is you wish to ask. It is whether that object’s ability is superior compared to a goddess’s authority or not isn’t it?」

「Yeah, your opinion?」

「Though the nature is different, I can safely say that it is equal in the relevant world.」Ch 492

The nature part is not a problem, but it proves that C.M. which is a created concept is not the same as authorities that trace back to the great trees. But they're equal, and it's proven by this:

「Or rather, the teleport destination, it got slightly shifted……this star tree is something, not bad.」

Hajime who grumbled that looked around and smiled wryly.

The place they teleported to seemed to be the edge of the star tree’s solitary island――above a cliff. They planned to teleport directly to the star tree’s location, but apparently the space was interfered with and they ended up on the island’s edge.

In the end, was it the star tree that was absurd with how it obstructed the Crystal Key’s teleportation ability, or was it the Crystal Key that was absurd with how it overcame the obstruction of a god of a world and teleported the user through even if it was only to the edge of the stronghold ? Ch 340

Star tree is the name of a great tree and both crysral key and compass use Concept Magic.

 

[Deonment]

The tems "Quintessence" and "Ideal" are often used as synonyms, with "quintessence" meaning the most perfect or pure example of something, and "ideal" referring to a standard of perfection or a conceptual model to be strived for. Both terms describe a perfect form, although "quintessence" can also refer to the core essence or nature of something.

Yet none of your scans mention quintessence in relation to the soul?

You have one scan that calls out quintessence that you added to the OP after the fact

『Anyway, I shall give my assistance to allow hero-sama to display your true ability until my holy sword brethren is awakened. With the quintessence of my power “Blessing”, it’ll be possible to substantially increase the limit of hero-sama.』

「That’s……I’m thankful. Truly.」

An increase to his base strength, and obtaining a new trump card that he never even imagined. Kouki’s expression naturally split into a smile.

『Then, with haste』

Foltina joined her hands in front of her chest. She closed her eyes and at the same time her radiance increased, forming a sphere of light.

That sphere of light──

『Please receive it──my brethren』

「Ee?」

To draw out the hero’s power sufficiently, either a god should reside inside the hero or a god should personally transform into a divine weapon.

And, the offer of Foltina herself transforming into divine weapon had been rejected. The holy sword was being dormant.

Then, there was only one option.

「Hiih, what are you doi──AH!? DON’TT! Don’t come insideee! OUCH, it hurtsss! HIGIIH!? I-I’m breakinggggggggg!!」

Aularodde arched her body backward like a shrimp. The pose she was doing looked artistic in its own way. She was holding her head while twitching uncontrollably. She was desperately trying to chase out Foltina’s split body that entered her body. Ch 468

But that doesn't state anything about the soul being the quintessence; she makes a statement about the quintessence of her power, which is a usage of that second definition of quintessence, considering the context.

The first usage requires far more information and doesn't even work in this context "With the ideal of my power "Blessing"" doesn't make much sense in the context or for what you are trying to use it for, as it would imply she's calling on something greater than herself to do what she does.

And according to the wiki standars "ideal" qualify as a concept, Take a look at souls in Bastard!!.

Firstly, whataboutism
Secondly, something being ideal or quintessential alone does not make it a concept, (ie "The ideal human" or "Ideal Machine")
Thirdly, Bastard has a bunch more expressly and explicitly stated context than you do about the nature of souls, Ideal is there as another piece of evidence

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

I agree with the OP after reading the whole Thread

 

[Vietthai96]

And according to the wiki standars "ideal" qualify as a concept

in order to ideal qualify as concept, it should be

For a character to qualify for conceptual manipulation, the character must be able to manipulate abstract concepts that exist partially or completely independently of the mind

The tems "Quintessence" and "Ideal" are often used as synonyms, with "quintessence" meaning the most perfect or pure example of something, and "ideal" referring to a standard of perfection or a conceptual model to be strived for. Both terms describe a perfect form, although "quintessence" can also refer to the core essence or nature of something.

While it is true that this is what "quintessence" generally means, it still depends on how the verse presents it. Similar to namedroping Concept doesn't always mean literal Concept

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Yet none of your scans mention quintessence in relation to the soul?

You have one scan that calls out quintessence that you added to the OP after the fact

But that doesn't state anything about the soul being the quintessence; she makes a statement about the quintessence of her power, which is a usage of that second definition of quintessence, considering the context.

The first usage requires far more information and doesn't even work in this context "With the ideal of my power "Blessing"" doesn't make much sense in the context or for what you are trying to use it for, as it would imply she's calling on something greater than herself to do what she does.

Firstly, whataboutism
Secondly, something being ideal or quintessential alone does not make it a concept, (ie "The ideal human" or "Ideal Machine")
Thirdly, Bastard has a bunch more expressly and explicitly stated context than you do about the nature of souls, Ideal is there as another piece of evidence

Still yapping ?

I agree with the OP after reading the whole Thread

Ok

in order to ideal qualify as concept, it should be

Concepts that are not abstract, such as those outlined in Idealism and Nominalism, do not qualify for conceptual manipulation of any kind. Such concepts exist strictly as non-abstract objects and hold no power over anything whatsoever. For a character to qualify for conceptual manipulation, the character must be able to manipulate abstract concepts that exist partially or completely independently of the mind.

Check below

While it is true that this is what "quintessence" generally means, it still depends on how the verse presents it. Similar to namedroping Concept doesn't always mean literal Concept

It's a little bit complex, but i'll try:

There is nine universes, each of them has it's own power system in the form of energy(Ki, Mana, Blessing...) the souls in each universe are construct of those energy while the gods(avatars) whose souls are fundamentally different are the quintessence of said energy.


Example: Spirit Element is an energy associated with the elements of nature(Fire, water, earth, ice...) the gods of its universe have authority over nature and they can produce it

Or to be more accurate, the orbs were treasure warehouse(Pocket Dimension) that was their new dwelling. Inside each orb there was a world that was modeled after nature to their preference, in addition, the orb of star tree that was set up at the deepest part of Vire Drucken was connected to all the orbs. Like that, through the orbs, the power of spirit element and the power of soul fragment could be manifested.

With god clad mode the war hammer entered activation state. By calling the name of the divine spirit, the hammer would change into a mode that ruled over each nature. Rather than saying that it was Shia herself who invoked the phenomenon, it was the divine spirits who were made to activate the phenomenon that Shia wished for.

By the way, the formula and the crest were optional from Hajime. If asked whether it was necessary or not, it was completely unnecessary. But, it was cool so it was necessary! It was so necessary that even the soul fragments needed seven days and seven nights to invent their own crest with Hajime’s suggestion!

Also, the nature inside the orb, it became like that on its own. At first Hajime’s idea was for the soul fragments to enter into the orb only when it was time to fight. So to speak, it would be like a pilot entering the cockpit.

But……as expected from the soul fragments of divine spirits and the star tree’s foliage that governed over nature. When they noticed, nature was born inside the orb and the inside became more comfortable to live in instead of outside, so they settled down inside there.

They were free to come out but……at present, everyone had become a splendid shut-in NEET soul fragment. Ch 345

The quintessence of spirit element could govern and produce it. There is avatars that govern Soul, Gravity, Space,Time...And I'm pretty sure that space, time, physics and nature are not related to the mind.

Also Soul fragment(Divinity/quintessence)=Conception

「……My, it’s true. Perhaps because it’s from different world, even I can’t sense it unless I focus, but certainly I’m feeling a presence of divinity. These children can sense it only because they are the beloved children of a wind god.」

Aularodde made an expression as though she was seeing an unnatural phenomenon. To think that there was someone who felt concerned for this terrifying brute, what kind of wind god with screw loose they could possibly be?

Hajime made a motion to throw away the mask. Aularodde’s expression immediately turned serious.

「It seems the small Heaven Tree is recovering well……yes, I can manage it somehow, but only if the other side is inclined to answer. This doesn’t seem like a mere god of foreign world, but a child of the avatar of another world, it won’t be difficult if I trace the presence of this wind――no, this conception.」Ch 388

What about will emotions and "Dragon Factor" ?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Unless there is a rule explicitly stating that Ancient Magic can only interfere with Concepts, it does not imply that the soul is one. Turning a wish into a concept through magic does not inherently suggest that the soul itself is conceptual.

Willpower transforming into or influencing concepts can represent a unique form of Transmutation and Conceptual Manipulation. Much of what is shown seems more like conversion, where emotions powerful enough can manifest as concepts or directly become them. However, that still doesn’t mean these entities are naturally conceptual by nature.

Souls can indeed be highly complex, more so than laws or concepts, without being anything beyond souls. It’s fiction, after all. Regarding the Vow, it seems to be a combination of Curse Manipulation and Soul Manipulation, rather than Law Manipulation.

Finally, souls are already accepted as fundamental within the setting, so restating that point under the individuality section is simply reiterating what is already established.

 

[Deonment]

Still yapping ?

Ignoring my points now?

The quintessence of spirit element could govern and produce it. There is avatars that govern Soul, Gravity, Space,Time...And I'm pretty sure that space, time, physics and nature are not related to the mind.

And not a mention of quintessence in this statement, what it states is that the soul fragments/divine spirits govern over the aspects of nature, which is far better than what you've presented before, but nothing that wouldn't just be solvable by saying they control the laws/concepts of reality than being them

Also, their not being related to the mind is invalid based on your own points regarding conception being a concept (ergo, everything being mind-related by nature), and something being ideal or quintessential does not make it conceptual even if it isn't mental related, things that are more related to how "perfect" a given thing is.

The ideal machine is something that (currently) only exists in our heads, being a machine that outputs as much force/momentum/energy as was put in, but that doesn't make it, or anything else described as ideal or quintessential (even though once more that isn't the usage of quintessence being used by your own quote) conceptual, simply because that isn't what the definition is.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Unless there is a rule explicitly stating that Ancient Magic can only interfere with Concepts, it does not imply that the soul is one. Turning a wish into a concept through magic does not inherently suggest that the soul itself is conceptual.

A.M. is the knowledge on how to manipulate:

"Umm, so Shizuku-chan. You know how all the magic we use is a degraded version of the magic they had in the age of the gods, right?”

“Yes. I studied up a little on this world. Ancient magic is the stuff that comes up in all the old histories, right? They were able to control the core elements that govern the laws of this world, while the elements we have are all derivatives... Vol 6 p219

"Anyway, what I meant about the general idea was that. Every ancient magic lets you manipulate some fundamental fact of nature, but until now, we didn’t realize which ones they all were. And in order to use concept magic, you have to understand the fundamental aspects of every ancient magic.” Vol 10 p215

"I see. So every ancient magic can interfere with some fundamental abstract concept. I guess that’s too much for normal humans to handle. No wonder you can’t just make something to take us home... From the sound of it, it’ll be pretty difficult to combine all the right elements together...” Vol 10 p216

So it's clear that it target laws and concepts(type 2).

BTW, A.M. is just knowledge and anyone can use their Soul and Mana to manipulate reality as long they understand it. There is a few hints that knowledge "warp" the soul.

Take Eri for an example: She was able to replicate A.M. and extract elements(Consciousness, Thought, Memory, Emotion) from the soul with her own knowledge and talent.

And the verse treat souls in general as "forbidden domain"

「Still, it was something that happened through great stretch of time. It will take time for her to recover fully. Originally, soul is a forbidden domain that even god cannot easily interfere with. Not to mention she is a goddess of creation herself. Her soul is fundamentally different from human soul. No matter how powerful and transcendence you all are, be aware of the potentially fatal risk for a child of man to reach your hand toward such thing.」

Aularodde’s gaze moved toward Hajime, then Yue and others.

That was a warning from a goddess (even if formerly) who had protected innumerable life of her world for countless years.

It was exactly because Hajime and others had heard that warning before this that they didn’t keep trying to force Ua Alto’s recovery and chose to ask other goddess. Ch 459

So it's clear that manipulating is not a regular soul manipulation. And I don't if it helps but there is an avatar tht govern souls.

Willpower transforming into or influencing concepts can represent a unique form of Transmutation and Conceptual Manipulation. Much of what is shown seems more like conversion, where emotions powerful enough can manifest as concepts or directly become them. However, that still doesn’t mean these entities are naturally conceptual by nature.

NO, it doesn't need to become a concept, take this for an example :

“Lyu, you’re better at appraising than anyone. What are you getting from this barrier?”

“I’m not sure. It doesn’t fall under any category of ancient magic. All I’m picking up is this strong will that says, ‘nothing shall despoil this sanctuary,’” Lyutillis replied, shaking her head in confusion ZVol 6 p170

This barrier is a concept magic.

And they were able to destroy it by destroying the will

“It’s time to liberate this world!” all seven of them shouted at once. And in that instant, they felt linked to each other in a way that had never happened before. They were so perfectly in sync that their wills melded into one. And they could feel that singular will give birth to something new.

At that moment, they all grew keenly aware that they would succeed.

“Breaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak!”

Cracks started to show along the multicolored barrier. Whatever will was sustaining it seemed to be losing against that of Miledi and her friends. ZVol 6 p171

Willpower could destroy concepts cause they're still a will. There is no transmutation or conversion just an increase in willpower=Increase in conceptual potency. (Soul=Will)
I forgot to mention that strong will and emotion could provide resistance to Law/CM2.



What about Emotions, "Dragon Factor" and "Quintessence" ?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

A.M. is the knowledge on how to manipulate:

So it's clear that it target laws and concepts(type 2).

BTW, A.M. is just knowledge and anyone can use their Soul and Mana to manipulate reality as long they understand it. There is a few hints that knowledge "warp" the soul.

Take Eri for an example: She was able to replicate A.M. and extract elements(Consciousness, Thought, Memory, Emotion) from the soul with her own knowledge and talent.

And the verse treat souls in general as "forbidden domain"

So it's clear that manipulating is not a regular soul manipulation. And I don't if it helps but there is an avatar tht govern souls.

I'm not saying the soul isn't abstract, just that it's not enough for it to be qualified as a concept as we know it on the wiki. I think it would be more accurate to treat it as something more fundamental than concepts, since that seems to be how the verse itself is treating it. Not sure how you would apply that to a profile, though.

NO, it doesn't need to become a concept, take this for an example :

This barrier is a concept magic.

And they were able to destroy it by destroying the will

Willpower could destroy concepts cause they're still a will. There is no transmutation or conversion just an increase in willpower=Increase in conceptual potency. (Soul=Will)
I forgot to mention that strong will and emotion could provide resistance to Law/CM2.

I see.

What about Emotions, "Dragon Factor" and "Quintessence" ?

Emotions seem to be a key aspect in getting Concept Magic to function properly. I can see where you’re coming from with this, and I do think the Soul encompassing things like emotions, the Dragon Factor, and similar traits can qualify as a more fundamental aspect, perhaps in relation to abilities like Regeneration. However, the correlation between Conceptual Abilities and the Soul (and its various aspects) isn’t strong enough to classify them as conceptual themselves. They’re definitely more abstract and complex than ordinary souls, as I mentioned before, but not concepts in their own right.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I'm not saying the soul isn't abstract, just that it's not enough for it to be qualified as a concept as we know it on the wiki. I think it would be more accurate to treat it as something more fundamental than concepts, since that seems to be how the verse itself is treating it. Not sure how you would apply that to a profile, though.

I see.

Emotions seem to be a key aspect in getting Concept Magic to function properly. I can see where you’re coming from with this, and I do think the Soul encompassing things like emotions, the Dragon Factor, and similar traits can qualify as a more fundamental aspect, perhaps in relation to abilities like Regeneration. However, the correlation between Conceptual Abilities and the Soul (and its various aspects) isn’t strong enough to classify them as conceptual themselves. They’re definitely more abstract and complex than ordinary souls, as I mentioned before, but not concepts in their own right.

Emotions like Will could become a concept if there is an increase

「Within that chaos, the negative emotions from millions, trillions of death that Ehito and we caused brought the concept of death to us, and as the result, we were annihilated together with Ehito down to our particles but……」

The rest make sense. For match purpose, what hax should you have to interact with souls in Arifureta ?


I added this: (under Soul & Form)
Quintessence=Divinity=Conception

「……My, it’s true. Perhaps because it’s from different world, even I can’t sense it unless I focus, but certainly I’m feeling a presence of divinity. These children can sense it only because they are the beloved children of a wind god.」

Aularodde made an expression as though she was seeing an unnatural phenomenon. To think that there was someone who felt concerned for this terrifying brute, what kind of wind god with screw loose they could possibly be?

Hajime made a motion to throw away the mask. Aularodde’s expression immediately turned serious.

「It seems the small Heaven Tree is recovering well……yes, I can manage it somehow, but only if the other side is inclined to answer. This doesn’t seem like a mere god of foreign world, but a child of the avatar of another world, it won’t be difficult if I trace the presence of this wind――no, this conception.」Ch 388

It's talking about the green slime, a soul fragment from the avatar of wind. So avatars souls (divinity/quintessence) are conceptual.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

The rest make sense. For match purpose, what hax should you have to interact with souls in Arifureta ?

Wouldn't really change which hax, just that the hax user would have to have really good NPI.

It's talking about the green slime, a soul fragment from the avatar of wind. So avatars souls (divinity/quintessence) are conceptual.

I don't mind any being with divinity having a conceptual soul.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I don't mind any being with divinity having a conceptual soul.

Well they do govern the world and their soul is fundamentally different

「Still, it was something that happened through great stretch of time. It will take time for her to recover fully. Originally, soul is a forbidden domain that even god cannot easily interfere with. Not to mention she is a goddess of creation herself. Her soul is fundamentally different from human soul. No matter how powerful and transcendence you all are, be aware of the potentially fatal risk for a child of man to reach your hand toward such thing.」

Aularodde’s gaze moved toward Hajime, then Yue and others.

That was a warning from a goddess (even if formerly) who had protected innumerable life of her world for countless years.

It was exactly because Hajime and others had heard that warning before this that they didn’t keep trying to force Ua Alto’s recovery and chose to ask other goddess. Ch 459

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Well they do govern the world and their soul is fundamentally different

Then yeah, any being with Divinity can have a conceptual soul, I agree with that.

 

[Vietthai96]

Is the divine being like god are conceptual entity?, if yes then i can agree with their soul being conceptual, if not then i disagree

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is the divine being like god are conceptual entity?, if yes then i can agree with their soul being conceptual, if not then i disagree

Yes, unlike regular souls they have an extra conceptual aspect.

 

[Vietthai96]

Yes, unlike regular souls they have an extra conceptual aspect.

?, extra conceptual aspect?, what i asked is the divine being conceptual entity or not