Attack On Titan Massive AP & Speed Revision

[Lilybitdun]

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Want to ask those who disagree with the ODM blade scaling, what would you want the blades to be rated as instead?

In Before The Fall we see fodder survery corp members being able to cut through bone of Ogre, a 15m tall titan

With 15m Titans being 9x more durable than a human

And for Levi with his blades can cut the Beast Titan's arm into pieces
There's also a feat of him clashing with the Jaw Titan and then damaging the bone mask of it while in a crippled injured state using these blades


The blades are shown to have far higher AP than the user's regular physicals

 

[Huzy]

I don't think any of these mean much in terms of displaying anything over wall level where most soldiers are at anyway. We know cannon shots blow off Titan limbs and the Jaw Titan's face has been cracked by bullets before.

 

[Lilybitdun]

I don't think any of these mean much in terms of displaying anything over wall level where most soldiers are at anyway. We know cannon shots blow off Titan limbs and the Jaw Titan's face has been cracked by bullets before.

That doesn't have anything with to do with what I said. The blades are shown higher ap than the person, whatever rating you think the Titans' are doesn't effect that

 

[Huzy]

That doesn't have anything with to do with what I said. The blades are shown higher ap than the person, whatever rating you think the Titans' are doesn't effect that

I mean sure? Nobody said they don't do more damage than the user's AP. That's sort of what swords are for even IRL. They concentrate energy to do more damage.

 

[Lilybitdun]

I mean sure? Nobody said they don't do more damage than the user's AP. That's sort of what swords are for even IRL. They concentrate energy to do more damage.

yeah so what's wrong with scaling the blades to the titan's durability?

 

[Huzy]

yeah so what's wrong with scaling the blades to the titan's durability?

Because they're not really that strong and are just taking advantage of simple physics?

I still haven't gotten any answer as to why these swords are any different from the 20 instances of Titans (pure or otherwise) getting damaged by arrows, cannons, bullets etc.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Because they're not really that strong and are just taking advantage of simple physics?

If your talking about your argument about swords that need an entire wiki wide revision to be valid, I don't really know what to say about that

I still haven't gotten any answer as to why these swords are any different from the 20 instances of Titans (pure or otherwise) getting damaged by arrows, cannons, bullets etc.

Bullets and arrows clearly fall under surface area, it's a very common thing for those to harm characters far above 9-C. Not an anti-feat

For cannons the titans consistently have feats above a regular cannonball's AP

The Titan breaks the wall with a slap.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Aot : Titan 15 m KE

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Titan Makes a Hole (Again)

vsbattles.fandom.com

With none of these feats causing the pure titans to take recoil damage
So the attack on titan cannon AP can just be higher than irl

All this supports is weapons being higher than human ap anyways which is legit my argument about odm blades ap being higher than physicals in the first place

 

[Huzy]

Bullets and arrows clearly fall under surface area, it's a very common thing for those to harm characters far above 9-C. Not an anti-feat

I agree. Why are swords different from this?

For cannons the titans consistently have feats above a regular cannonball's AP

There are far too many instances of them being damaged by cannons. Titans also die from large falls and having tree trunks dropped on their napes. I'd say those outweigh the 3 feats you've shared.

 

[Lilybitdun]

I agree. Why are swords different from this?

Because swords are cutting straight through titans, there's a huge difference between that and arrows/bullets being able to puncture skin. There's enough a whole point that normal materials aren't enough to harm Titans

Ultrahard steel

Ultrahard steel (超硬質スチール Chō Kōshitsu Suchīru?) is a material that is used in the making of blades capable of piercing and cutting the skin of Titans. Swords made of ultrahard steel are the main weapon used in the fight against the Titans. These one edge blades are included as part of the...

attackontitan.fandom.com

There are far too many instances of them being damaged by cannons. Titans also die from large falls and having tree trunks dropped on their napes. I'd say those outweigh the 3 feats you've shared.

Titans can die from long fall if they fall on their nape which is a blatant weak point of a body, this is like saying Goku slipping on his bathtub and breaking his neck on the sink is an anti-feat. And if you're referring to the executioner from hell that def would have more energy than a regular cannonball plus is explicitly hitting them directly on the nape

 

[Huzy]

Because swords are cutting straight through titans, there's a huge difference between that and arrows/bullets being able to puncture skin. There's enough a whole point that normal materials aren't enough to harm Titans

Because unlike the bullets and arrows the swords have constant power input that allows them to continue piercing instead of just stopping? It's not like they just throw swords and they slice Titans in half. This on top of the fact that the scouts are all rated as wall level here. So they're swinging those things at hundreds or thousands of times more energy (depending on the exact rating idk I haven't checked) than your average bullet.

Swords/Blades are literally listed under surface area on this site's durability page.

Titans can die from long fall if they fall on their nape which is a blatant weak point of a body, this is like saying Goku slipping on his bathtub and breaking his neck on the sink is an anti-feat. And if you're referring to the executioner from hell that def would have more energy than a regular cannonball plus is explicitly hitting them directly on the nape

Then why are we rating people to full shifter Titan durability (over a large surface area) for cutting through napes....
Especially the current rating for Eren is him slashing the nape of the anorexic Colossal Titan after Bertolt evaporated a ton of weight trying to fry Armin. Are they a weak point or not?

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[Lilybitdun]

Should I wait for more staff / Damage to check the thread again or do I make a follow up CRT for the ODM blade scaling since the rest of the revision has the necessary votes?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Should I wait for more staff / Damage to check the thread again or do I make a follow up CRT for the ODM blade scaling since the rest of the revision has the necessary votes?

Votes are probably the best way to go at this point. Its obvious Huzy is going to just keep stonewalling rather than making a CRT to change the site's standards for stuff like this so just have staff vote to agree with the blade and explosion upgrades and be done with it

This CRT should have been done in 2 pages.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also since the anime is primary canon now, we can inarguably scale Levi to the Jaw Titan in physical power

 

[Lilybitdun]

Also since the anime is primary canon now, we can inarguably scale Levi to the Jaw Titan in physical power

I was thinking if I should add it or not since it does seem weird that his ODM blades would handle clashing with the Jaw Titan's claws when those are strongest physical attacks in the show

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I was thinking if I should add it or not since it does seem weird that his ODM blades would handle clashing with the Jaw Titan's claws when those are strongest physical attacks in the show

They're not the strongest physical attacks, they function on the sme logic as the odm blades of being sharp enough to cut/pierce things more durable than the user's physical power

 

[Lilybitdun]

They're not the strongest physical attacks, they function on the sme logic as the odm blades of being sharp enough to cut/pierce things more durable than the user's physical power

I mean in the terms of the chainscaling; those claws are damaging things that tank stuff superior to the odm blades

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean in the terms of the chainscaling; those claws are damaging things that tank stuff superior to the odm blades

Yeah, the blades didn't tank them, he just matched the physical strikes of the titan itself

 

[Lilybitdun]

Yeah, the blades didn't tank them, he just matched the physical strikes of the titan itself

ODM blades break on the armored titan's armor

It doesn't make much sense for ODM blades being able to clash with the Jaw Titan's claws that can damage tybur's crystallization that tanks Attack Titan's Hardening that breaks Armored Titan's armor
They should be breaking with every hit

 

[WeeklyBattles]

ODM blades break on the armored titan's armor

It doesn't make much sense for ODM blades being able to clash with the Jaw Titan's claws that can damage tybur's crystallization that tanks Attack Titan's Hardening that breaks Armored Titan's armor
They should be breaking with every hit

That's the thing, they weren't clashing with the sharp parts of the claws, Levi was swatting the Jaw's strikes to the side. The Jaw's physical strikes are weaker than the sharpness of its claws, hence why its claws and teeth are a higher tier than its physical power.

 

[Lilybitdun]

That's the thing, they weren't clashing with the sharp parts of the claws, Levi was swatting the Jaw's strikes to the side. The Jaw's physical strikes are weaker than the sharpness of its claws, hence why its claws and teeth are a higher tier than its physical power.

The clip is kind of ambiguous to say that's what's happening
but if we went with that interpretation that means Levi's current ODM rating is completely fine since the sandbox got the jaw titan physically High 8-C without claws/jaws while the ODM blades' AP are 8-B+, possibly 8-A

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The clip is kind of ambiguous to say that's what's happening
but if we went with that interpretation that means Levi's current ODM rating is completely fine since the sandbox got the jaw titan physically High 8-C without claws/jaws while the ODM blades' AP are 8-B+, possibly 8-A

 

[Lilybitdun]

Yes I've seen the clip, I can't tell if he's deflecting the sharp parts of the claws or just hitting the sides (and if it's the second one like you're saying it wouldn't change the scaling)

 

[Lilybitdun]

I would say the same for Levi being able to damage the jaw titan's bone mask since that makes levi's ap with blades above the attack titan's hardening

 

[Lilybitdun]

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[Lilybitdun]

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[Lilybitdun]

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[Lilybitdun]

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[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[FinePoint]

Would someone mind summarizing the conclusions here so far?
Have the calculation issues been resolved?

 

[Lilybitdun]

Would someone mind summarizing the conclusions here so far?
Have the calculation issues been resolved?

Everyone mostly agrees to the proposals but there's currently contention over ODM blades scaling due to Surface Area

About the Low 7-C calculation, I had removed it from the proposal due to the contentions (The Colossal Titan now just upscales the Attack Titan's 8-B+) and that would be settled in a future CRT going over new calcs

 

[FinePoint]

Everyone mostly agrees to the proposals but there's currently contention over ODM blades scaling due to Surface Area

About the Low 7-C calculation, I had removed it from the proposal due to the contentions (The Colossal Titan now just upscales the Attack Titan's 8-B+) and that would be settled in a future CRT going over new calcs

Alright. Well you can consider me in agreement with most of it and neutral on the stuff currently in contention then.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Alright. Well you can consider me in agreement with most of it and neutral on the stuff currently in contention then.

So what do I about the stuff that's in contention? I haven't heard back from the staff who voted on ODM segment
It's currently 1 agree (Godernet), 1 disagree (Damage), and 2 neutrals (Nierre, Finepoint)

 

[FinePoint]

So what do I about the stuff that's in contention? I haven't heard back from the staff who voted on ODM segment
It's currently 1 agree (Godernet), 1 disagree (Damage), and 2 neutrals (Nierre, Finepoint)

You'll have to either convince people or get even more staff input.

 

[Excellence616]

The accepted proposal can be applied.

 

[Lilybitdun]

The accepted proposal can be applied.

Not yet, the odm blade scaling is important for the profiles. Without a clear consensus I would have to put all the blade ap ratings at "Unknown"

 

[Lilybitdun]

Wait actually, let me ask this

If the odm ap proposal isn't applied, would the blades just keep their current profile justifications of hurting the colossal titan (which would put them at at least 8-B+ due to the Colossal Titan's durability) or would they be rated as Unknown? I assumed it was latter but I want to be sure

 

[Lilybitdun]

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[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Lilybitdun]

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