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Eternatus ain't 2-A and neither are the rest of the mons

Then there's the further issues, specifically going with the idea that rental pokemon can be used for proper scaling. They can fight every legendary mentioned here. Unless we assume that the rental pokemon stomp them, which has no evidence and wouldn't work especially considering the clearly intentional level difference, this would mean that all legendaries can fight each other.

Actually taking a second to read this, I’d like to know why the bolded out sentence would be the case please.
 
Actually taking a second to read this, I’d like to know why the bolded out sentence would be the case please.
All the legendaries can fight the rental pokemon since all rental pokemon can fight all the legendaries. Can't assume that any of the fights are a stomp, that leads to all Legendaries mentioned scaling to each other by proxy. There's no reason to assume there's tier variation between rental pokemon either since that would just be twisting facts to fit assumptions.
And don't even get me started on the scaling chains I could pull out my arse if we say Eternatus is 2-A.
 
All the legendaries can fight the rental pokemon since all rental pokemon can fight all the legendaries. Can't assume that any of the fights are a stomp, that leads to all Legendaries mentioned scaling to each other by proxy.

Well here’s 2 things when reading this:

First, even if we can’t (for some reason) assume any of them are stomps, why would this mean the legendaries all scale to each other? Couldn’t some legendaries do worse than others against the raid teams?

And for my other thing about this. The Raid Legendaries here are in Dynamaxed states aren’t they? That means they’re being amped by the gimmick. So wouldn’t this just mean Dynamax grants 2-A power ups and they’re only that strong while Dynamaxed? Kinda like how Z-Moves are granted by Necrozmas power, or how Hisuian lords get directly amped by Arceus?
 
Well here’s 2 things when reading this:

First, even if we can’t (for some reason) assume any of them are stomps
the reason is that there is no reason. Assuming that the rental pokemon would stomp one legendary but not the other or that the legendaries stomp the rental pokemon would be ridiculous, especially considering the game is designed specifically in such a way that with the level of the rental pokemon you cannot instantly take down any of the legendaries you fight. In short, the only reason to assume any of those fights were stomps would be to make facts fit an agenda.
why would this mean the legendaries all scale to each other? Couldn’t some legendaries do worse than others against the raid teams?
If man A fights man B on equal grounds but then is half as strong against man C but still hurts him and man C scales to 2-A, that still tracks. There's no indication of an infinite difference at all and the difference in AP wouldn't even be infinite but uncountably infinite.
And for my other thing about this. The Raid Legendaries here are in Dynamaxed states aren’t they? That means they’re being amped by the gimmick.
The amp is canonically strong but not big enough to make a jump from one tier to a tier infinitely greater. Piers can fights you and other trainers on equal grounds despite not G-maxing his pokemon. It is specifically shown that, whilst hard, 4 or sometimes even 1 trainer is enough to fight a g-maxed pokemon 1 on 1.
So wouldn’t this just mean Dynamax grants 2-A power ups and they’re only that strong while Dynamaxed?
again, this feels like a twist to facts so that it can fit scaling, an attempt to evade the fact that the scaling is ridiculous in the first place. You are basically saying that these random pokemon, unevolved and trained by god-knows who can legitimately fight 2-A gods boosted even further by what you're proposing is another 2-A boost.
Kinda like how Z-Moves are granted by Necrozmas power, or how Hisuian lords get directly amped by Arceus?
The issue is that Z-moves are used even by those who outscale Necrozma in every way. Z-moves were never a uniform powerup. Anyone can use them from the random lvl 3 Bidoof to Necrozma to Arceus. Dynamax has no reason to uniformly boost every legendary to 2-A, they'd be stronger but only to an extent. Saying otherwise is like trying to fit what we actually see to fit a preconceived scaling, putting the cart way before the horse.
Heck, even with the Arceus example the lords were clearly different in power as you yourself grew in power throughout the story and fought stronger and stronger Pokemon.
 
Fair enough I guess on the first few things, but for these:

The amp is canonically strong but not big enough to make a jump from one tier to a tier infinitely greater. Piers can fights you and other trainers on equal grounds despite not G-maxing his pokemon. It is specifically shown that, whilst hard, 4 or sometimes even 1 trainer is enough to fight a g-maxed pokemon 1 on 1.

I kinda disagree here. For one, Piers fighting Gmax Pokémon isn’t much of an anti feat, that just means he’s ridiculously strong and should scale. Hes the 7th Gym leader, so the strongest right after Raihan, who’s outright comparable to Leon, and IIRC, most gym challengers in Galar get no where close to fighting him on average. Most stop around, like, Kabu and whatnot, the 3rd or 4th gyms.

But more importantly, we’ve seen gimmicks like Megas and Z moves grant ridiculous tier amps before. Mega evolution can make Rayquaza go from 5-B and Jump to High 3-A There’s no reason for Dynamax to not be able to grant a similar power up.

again, this feels like a twist to facts so that it can fit scaling, an attempt to evade the fact that the scaling is ridiculous in the first place. You are basically saying that these random pokemon, unevolved and trained by god-knows who can legitimately fight 2-A gods boosted even further by what you're proposing is another 2-A boost.

No, you’re missing what I’m saying. I’m proposing that the legendaries the rental mons fight against should ONLY be 2-A while Dynamaxed specifically, as that’s the only versions of legendaries the rental mons fight against, unless I’m mistaken.

And as far as how “ridiculous” it may seem, it really doesn’t matter when this is, supposedly, an in-universe acknowledged thing that’s on the same vein as the Ultra Wormholes in Sun and Moon. If it was game mechanics, that would be one thing, but that doesn’t appear to be the case.

The fact these rental mons are being made able to fight legendaries of any kind in the first place already suggests they’re narratively strong enough to battle them.

The issue is that Z-moves are used even by those who outscale Necrozma in every way. Z-moves were never a uniform powerup. Anyone can use them from the random lvl 3 Bidoof to Necrozma to Arceus.

I don’t see why this would matter. The only Pokémon who even outscale Ultra Necrozma in USUM are the god tiers. Arceus is an obvious answer as he has all their powers (Z crystals even correspond to him in the exact same way that the plates do) and the rest like Dialga and Azelf roam around in Ultra Space that has access to Z-power.

The rest who use them, like Totem Pokemon, get specifically showered in Z-power and every one else uses it via Z crystals.


Dynamax has no reason to uniformly boost every legendary to 2-A, they'd be stronger but only to an extent. Saying otherwise is like trying to fit what we actually see to fit a preconceived scaling, putting the cart way before the horse.

Not really. It’s a common theme for gimmicks in the verse to grant astronomically big leaps in power, so saying Dynamax can do the same isn’t coming out of nowhere.

Heck, even with the Arceus example the lords were clearly different in power as you yourself grew in power throughout the story and fought stronger and stronger Pokemon.

Yes, but Legends Arceus specifically has it so that you can beat the lords without needing to directly harm or battle them, so there’s no real confliction with them.

As for the fighting stronger Pokémon point, that’s….pretty much the same with the other games with gimmicks, Dynamax included.
 
I kinda disagree here. For one, Piers fighting Gmax Pokémon isn’t much of an anti feat, that just means he’s ridiculously strong and should scale. Hes the 7th Gym leader, so the strongest right after Raihan, who’s outright comparable to Leon, and IIRC, most gym challengers in Galar get no where close to fighting him on average. Most stop around, like, Kabu and whatnot, the 3rd or 4th gyms.
Gotta disagree here. Most gym leader pokemon are around the same in power, just mild power gaps. This means Raihan's pokemon can all generally fight on equal grounds with the rest of his pokemon. He still has trouble with him despite G-maxing, meaning that G-max doesn't have that massive of a powergap. It is a powergap for sure but hell, we've been shown that it is closer to Mega Evolution in portrayal, Megas usually only boosting Pokemon to an extent where they somewhat change the tide in battle, not completely overwhelm people instantly. Now regarding mega evolutions...
But more importantly, we’ve seen gimmicks like Megas and Z moves grant ridiculous tier amps before. Mega evolution can make Rayquaza go from 5-B and Jump to High 3-A There’s no reason for Dynamax to not be able to grant a similar power up.
Z-moves don't grant jumps in several tiers. Mega Evolution...now that's tricky, and that's mostly cause I am planning up some revisions that could put base Rayquaza above 5-B, same going for Mewtwo, Mew, ect. In short, that kind of jump isn't guaranteed, and, worst of all, its not a jump to 2-A, the god tier.
Also, side note, the scaling for Mega Rayquaza is entirely based on speculation. It is simply assumed that since Rayquaza and Mewtwo are in the same tier, Rayquaza would have the same type of boost as Mewtwo. But I digress, let's not start that discussion here since that'd be for another day.
No, you’re missing what I’m saying. I’m proposing that the legendaries the rental mons fight against should ONLY be 2-A while Dynamaxed specifically, as that’s the only versions of legendaries the rental mons fight against, unless I’m mistaken.
And that would still be scaling basically every big legendary in Galar to 2-A because Eternatus exists. I'll extrapolate on that in the next point
And as far as how “ridiculous” it may seem, it really doesn’t matter when this is, supposedly, an in-universe acknowledged thing that’s on the same vein as the Ultra Wormholes in Sun and Moon. If it was game mechanics, that would be one thing, but that doesn’t appear to be the case.
That system is nowhere near comparable to something as lore-heavy as Ultra Wormholes. To me Rental Pokemon are far more closer to a game mechanic to make things a bit easier for players, not something that should be taken too seriously in lore. It's basically saying that these specific, sometimes unevolved and not even max level mons are powerful enough to fight (in their base forms mind you) Dynamaxed 2-A gods. Nobody else is that powerful, just these specific pokemon. Can't you see that this is some "Black Panther hurting the Silver Surfer" level of outlier here. If we start acknowledging this as something significant then why don't we acknowledge every single gen 4 legendary fighting each other in the manga, or every legendary fighting each other in the Hoopa movie as legitimate? Those are far better and far clearer cases of scaling so uh, what gives? If "Regigigas slams Dialga and Palkia" or "Rayquaza fights Giratina" can't get properly acknowledged then why should we acknowledge "Leon states Eternatus is the strongest legendary and Leon is strongest trainer so he must scale above these random mons we don't even know if he has seen or heard of that for some reason can fight 2-A space-time deities despite not being special in any way".
The fact these rental mons are being made able to fight legendaries of any kind in the first place already suggests they’re narratively strong enough to battle them.
Same as above, if that's acknowledged as legit then every other more obvious instances should be legitimized as well, which would lead to the same result I stated, that being 2-A legendaries across the board.
I don’t see why this would matter. The only Pokémon who even outscale Ultra Necrozma in USUM are the god tiers. Arceus is an obvious answer as he has all their powers (Z crystals even correspond to him in the exact same way that the plates do) and the rest like Dialga and Azelf roam around in Ultra Space that has access to Z-power.
Ok then let's bring up someone like Darkrai who doesn't do that and still would be above UN and use Z-moves. Z-moves only power up the pokemon to the extent that they can be powered up, not to the same level like you're suggesting Dynamax does.
The rest who use them, like Totem Pokemon, get specifically showered in Z-power and every one else uses it via Z crystals.
Those Totem pokemon vary in power from being defeated by literal newbies to being the boss of high level trials. It isn't uniform and that is what's important
Not really. It’s a common theme for gimmicks in the verse to grant astronomically big leaps in power, so saying Dynamax can do the same isn’t coming out of nowhere.
You're missing the point. What I am saying is, there absolutely no reason for Dynamax to boost the pokemon to the same exact level, that being 2-A. Under your suggestion Dynamax would boost Dialga/Palkia and Molters to similar levels of power, when logically their power should be different, similarly to how even just the normal dynamax forms have differnet levels you can upgrade them to and then the fact that low level Pokemon in the wild are far weaker than high leve Pokemon. The boost is proportional to the power of the pokemon, we just don't know to what proportion.
Yes, but Legends Arceus specifically has it so that you can beat the lords without needing to directly harm or battle them, so there’s no real confliction with them.
Just because you can do something without conflict doesn't mean you will. You still directly fight several of the lords in a battle and require stronger pokemon to win. It is an intended part of the game.
As for the fighting stronger Pokémon point, that’s….pretty much the same with the other games with gimmicks, Dynamax included.
A boss of a level fit for you when you're at the start of a game and a boss that comes later when you're stronger and is at a higher level are very much in different categories of power. Especially considering you start off with using basic ass Low 7-B mons and proceed to 1v1 2-A Origins form CT.
 
Gotta disagree here. Most gym leader pokemon are around the same in power, just mild power gaps. This means Raihan's pokemon can all generally fight on equal grounds with the rest of his pokemon. He still has trouble with him despite G-maxing, meaning that G-max doesn't have that massive of a powergap. It is a powergap for sure but hell, we've been shown that it is closer to Mega Evolution in portrayal, Megas usually only boosting Pokemon to an extent where they somewhat change the tide in battle, not completely overwhelm people instantly. Now regarding mega evolutions...

Yes, but what my point was, if Piers just scales down from Raihan, then its not really that problematic to do that, because a very rare few of gym challengers ever make it to him, and let alone win. It's not like every gym challenger, or even every other gym leader, would be affected by this.

Z-moves don't grant jumps in several tiers.

Pikachu as an example says otherwise. The page is outdated AFAIK, but even currently, Pikachu's SM key has a separate High 3-A tier via 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt and Gigavolt Havoc. I don't see why Z-moves, that are powered directly by Necrozma, wouldn't grant a jump in several tiers.

(Especially since they're attack moves that don't scale directly to the user, but thats besides the point).

Mega Evolution...now that's tricky, and that's mostly cause I am planning up some revisions that could put base Rayquaza above 5-B, same going for Mewtwo, Mew, ect. In short, that kind of jump isn't guaranteed, and, worst of all, its not a jump to 2-A, the god tier.

I mean, sure, their bases can be higher than 5-B, but the point I made here still is that we find it acceptable for mega evolutions to grant quite a considerably big boost in power that can span several tiers, currently. So I don't think it's impossible for Dynamax to grant a similarly potential boost like that to other Pokemon. At least the legendaries roaming around in an area thats flooded with Dynamax energy compared to typical power spots.

Also, side note, the scaling for Mega Rayquaza is entirely based on speculation. It is simply assumed that since Rayquaza and Mewtwo are in the same tier, Rayquaza would have the same type of boost as Mewtwo. But I digress, let's not start that discussion here since that'd be for another day.

This was actually already brought up in another thread and was explained away.

And that would still be scaling basically every big legendary in Galar to 2-A because Eternatus exists. I'll extrapolate on that in the next point

Im aware of this. The purpose of why I brought this up was moreso to fix the "every legendary period becomes 2-A" issue. It would be restricted to certain versions amped by a power they normally don't scale to on their own, and the legendaries in the raids pretty much only fight the rental mons in D-maxed states instead of their regular forms.

That system is nowhere near comparable to something as lore-heavy as Ultra Wormholes. To me Rental Pokemon are far more closer to a game mechanic to make things a bit easier for players, not something that should be taken too seriously in lore. It's basically saying that these specific, sometimes unevolved and not even max level mons are powerful enough to fight (in their base forms mind you) Dynamaxed 2-A gods. Nobody else is that powerful, just these specific pokemon. Can't you see that this is some "Black Panther hurting the Silver Surfer" level of outlier here. If we start acknowledging this as something significant then why don't we acknowledge every single gen 4 legendary fighting each other in the manga, or every legendary fighting each other in the Hoopa movie as legitimate? Those are far better and far clearer cases of scaling so uh, what gives? If "Regigigas slams Dialga and Palkia" or "Rayquaza fights Giratina" can't get properly acknowledged then why should we acknowledge "Leon states Eternatus is the strongest legendary and Leon is strongest trainer so he must scale above these random mons we don't even know if he has seen or heard of that for some reason can fight 2-A space-time deities despite not being special in any way".

Im not saying I don't see what you're saying, because as I said, I am personally split when it comes to this. And I agree Ultra Wormholes have much more bigger legs to stand on when it comes to their placement in lore.

The issue, however, on why this being or not being a game mechanic is a debatable topic is because the existence of these mons, these raids, and these legendaries inside them, are acknowledged in-universe by the actual characters. They themselves state that Pokemon, that don't normally exist in Galar, are present there, so it doesn't seem as if this is just an equalized leveling kind of thing to make things more fair. Unusual Pokemon with unusual capabilities are stated directly to exist there, so while Alola's ultra wormholes have more in-depth backing to them, the raids are in a similar vein to them with direct acknowledgement in-universe.

All I'll say, because the course of this discussion depends on it and eliminates a lot of back and forth, is that we have to decide if the above is to be considered a legitimate in-universe existing thing, or is still a game mechanic.

Ok then let's bring up someone like Darkrai who doesn't do that and still would be above UN and use Z-moves. Z-moves only power up the pokemon to the extent that they can be powered up, not to the same level like you're suggesting Dynamax does.

Those Totem pokemon vary in power from being defeated by literal newbies to being the boss of high level trials. It isn't uniform and that is what's important

You're missing the point. What I am saying is, there absolutely no reason for Dynamax to boost the pokemon to the same exact level, that being 2-A. Under your suggestion Dynamax would boost Dialga/Palkia and Molters to similar levels of power, when logically their power should be different, similarly to how even just the normal dynamax forms have differnet levels you can upgrade them to and then the fact that low level Pokemon in the wild are far weaker than high leve Pokemon. The boost is proportional to the power of the pokemon, we just don't know to what proportion.

Oh I think I see what you mean now. In that case, I'll rephrase my suggestion a bit. Instead of thinking all Dynamax states are 2-A, what about Dynamax being able to vary, potentially up to 2-A, because of it boosting 2-A Pokemon? All that then comes down to is what Pokemon and their specific Dynamax forms have feats of doing what.
 
Yes, but what my point was, if Piers just scales down from Raihan, then its not really that problematic to do that, because a very rare few of gym challengers ever make it to him, and let alone win. It's not like every gym challenger, or even every other gym leader, would be affected by this.
That still leads to the fact that a normal pokemon can fight a dynamaxed pokemon to an extent. It is a limited boost, not one that boosts people beyond all tiers
Pikachu as an example says otherwise. The page is outdated AFAIK, but even currently, Pikachu's SM key has a separate High 3-A tier via 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt and Gigavolt Havoc. I don't see why Z-moves, that are powered directly by Necrozma, wouldn't grant a jump in several tiers.
Pikachu's profile is outdated as shit, Ash has been 2-B, possibly 2-A now for like a year (to my dismay)
I mean, sure, their bases can be higher than 5-B, but the point I made here still is that we find it acceptable for mega evolutions to grant quite a considerably big boost in power that can span several tiers, currently. So I don't think it's impossible for Dynamax to grant a similarly potential boost like that to other Pokemon. At least the legendaries roaming around in an area thats flooded with Dynamax energy compared to typical power spots.
But what I am trying to say is that there's a difference betwee some level of a boost and making someone jump from Low 6-B to 2-A.
This was actually already brought up in another thread and was explained away.
Sure
Im aware of this. The purpose of why I brought this up was moreso to fix the "every legendary period becomes 2-A" issue. It would be restricted to certain versions amped by a power they normally don't scale to on their own, and the legendaries in the raids pretty much only fight the rental mons in D-maxed states instead of their regular forms.
Only one of the mons would be D-maxed. The raids are 4v1 and only one can be D-maxed. This means rental mons can survive that shit regardless.
Im not saying I don't see what you're saying, because as I said, I am personally split when it comes to this. And I agree Ultra Wormholes have much more bigger legs to stand on when it comes to their placement in lore.
Glad you see it
The issue, however, on why this being or not being a game mechanic is a debatable topic is because the existence of these mons, these raids, and these legendaries inside them, are acknowledged in-universe by the actual characters. They themselves state that Pokemon, that don't normally exist in Galar, are present there, so it doesn't seem as if this is just an equalized leveling kind of thing to make things more fair. Unusual Pokemon with unusual capabilities are stated directly to exist there, so while Alola's ultra wormholes have more in-depth backing to them, the raids are in a similar vein to them with direct acknowledgement in-universe.
And yet that doesn't really stop them from causing heavy inter-scaling and just being an outlier. Again, my issue is, this is far more vague and weird and outliery than things like the actual genuiene legendary fights in the anime and manga. Basically, even if there is reason to assume it does work as you suggest, it then proceeds to open a pipeline for insane scaling that is hard to take seriously. If this isn't an outlier then other things aren't outliers either. Suddenly most champions are 2-A, suddenly all gen 4 legendaries are 2-A, suddenly Mewtwo (anime) is 2-A which leads to Lugia 2-A and Mew 2-A and it just goes on and on and on and I don't want to open that pipeline. This is a weird case that should be treated as an ouliter. Yes, outliers can happen even when there's lore that backs it up.
All I'll say, because the course of this discussion depends on it and eliminates a lot of back and forth, is that we have to decide if the above is to be considered a legitimate in-universe existing thing, or is still a game mechanic.
I think it is an outlier/game mechanic that shouldn't be used. My position has been that way from the get go. Ig we can leave the rest of the opinion making to the mods that are supposed to vote in the first place.
Oh I think I see what you mean now. In that case, I'll rephrase my suggestion a bit. Instead of thinking all Dynamax states are 2-A, what about Dynamax being able to vary, potentially up to 2-A, because of it boosting 2-A Pokemon? All that then comes down to is what Pokemon and their specific Dynamax forms have feats of doing what.
...they all have feats of equally fighting the exact same rental pokemon. There's nothing else. The only G-max legendary with a feat is Eternamax Eternatus, deadass.
 
I feel like this conversation is leaning too much on the Dynamax Adventure instance. If we follow this logic, it will inevitably lead to giving a 2-A tier to almost every major legendary (and every rental mons? what?), which seems like a very bad idea.

The core issue is that we're giving too much weight to what is, partially, a result of a game mechanic. I believe it's a good idea to rethink the scaling for the legendaries, but not to upgrade everyone to Dialga and Palkia's level based on this questionable instance.
 
And here we have another thread pointing out a massive problem with the scaling of a verse.

If you want my opinion, I personally believe legendaries should just scale to each other outright. There's hardly cases where you can find genuine stomps among disputes beyond some box art squabbles and I fully believe there's literally nothing saying they can't scale. People say "common sense" but notice they can't actually bring up a proper rebuttal?

Fact of the matter is, legendaries and mythicals who are shown to scale to legendaries in many sources can be fought and obtained around similar levels in almost every game. ORAS is a rather explicit case of opening up the ******* Lake Trio and Creation Trio when you get Mega Latios or Latias. The Ultra Wormholes are another case. The Dynamax Dens are another case. Paldea is explicitly after the Champion but I think before Area Zero? Could be wrong but if my memory is right that would open up Koraidon to scaling.

You have threats that are considered impossible to stop or uber powerful even though we know there's mfers who scale to and have the CT members on them.

It just sounds like to me the only thing stopping them scaling is the arbitrary limits we are imposing on them because we just believe that the Creation Trio or even Necrozma are "untouchable" when we literally already have people scaling to them anyways.

Legendaries are SUPPOSED to be powerful. They are banned in-universe from certain events in the games. Why do you think that is? They are also literally made TO compete with each other. That's the whole point of Pokémon. Why are we suddenly tiering them from Country to High Universal to Multi+ when normal Pokémon who have their own lore just like legendary Pokémon that would logically scale them higher than others are all treated as comparable?

And the Champions? These mfers are sometimes outright tied to specific legendaries and are fought immediately after acquiring them so wouldn't this naturally imply the legendaries at least are somewhat comparable like the Champions should be? (Cynthia stomping the verse is such a silly take)

I know people don't like BST arguments anymore but aside from the obvious gimmick forms that need to warrant it, the GF team at least somewhat tried to make BSTs naturally telling of a Pokémon's power. Examples are box art legends all having the exact same BSTs as their counterparts (and in general most box art legends were literally in the same range of 660-680), notable superior members like Rayquaza having slightly more stats, and Arceus being the strongest before gimmicks. Sometimes we should like actually acknowledge the meta intentions behind the creators themselves. Just because we know exceptions exist now due to competitive metagaming balancing each other out doesn't mean BSTs should be totally written off imo. It would be a case by case basis though obviously.

I say take the chaotic plunge personally. Make it on the opps to try and make threads disproving the scaling. It's legit much easier to just accept this than to deny this.
 
Then there's the further issues, specifically going with the idea that rental pokemon can be used for proper scaling.
'Proper" scaling?
They can fight every legendary mentioned here. Unless we assume that the rental pokemon stomp them, which has no evidence and wouldn't work especially considering the clearly intentional level difference, this would mean that all legendaries can fight each other.

As you can imagine, this would make every legendary Pokemon 2-B, possibly 2-A. I believe it is very much a ridiculous notion when there's very clear differences in power. I can understand scaling some trainers who have directly fough the CT but this isn't it. It is a massive outlier and a case of improbable chain scaling.
Could dismissing Dynamax Adventures individually be an option?
"Stomp" might also be not fully accurate; Aren't Dynamax Adventures 4vs1? & isn't Dynamax only like, a 1.5x boost? They definitely don't stomp if they need to group up, no?
Anyway, is there any lore-related reason or statements to involve DA in the scaling? How do we know the Rental Pokemon aren't just Game Mechanics?
So there's really only 2 options to go with

1. We nerf Zacian, Zamazenta and Eternatus back to their original stats.
2. We upgrade every legendary to 2-B, possibly 2-A.
I've only read the opening post at this time & am going to try to go through the thread.
 
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See, this scaling comes from the trained rental pokemon that can fight the dynamax Creation Trio.

Issue is, we are assuming that Leon knows about how powerful they are when saying that Eternatus is "the strongest pokemon", something he only mentions during the champion fight, about the base form of Eternatus and even further - shouldn't be treated as fully reliable as for all we know it was just a hyperbole. I mean, the fact that Zacian and Zamazenta whooped it already puts the scaling under question.
Oh & also this. Besides being Champion, what makes Leon a reliable source about the whole of what Pokemon are in the whole setting?
Has he done much outside Galar? Researched the Creation Trio?

There's also the fact that wasn't Eternatus beaten by Zacian & Zamazenta, as well as 1 of Leon's Pokemon &/or a Champion-level-trained-by-a-Protagonist Pokemon?
If we are to assume trainers can train even regular Pokemon to Legendary Levels, then that's notable. Multiple inferiors in a group can be superior as a total.
Ergo, Eternatus could be stronger than either of Zacian or Zamazenta, but not when it's them &/or 1 or more other Pokemon against it.
 
Oh & also this. Besides being Champion, what makes Leon a reliable source about the whole of what Pokemon are in the whole setting?
Has he done much outside Galar? Researched the Creation Trio?

There's also the fact that wasn't Eternatus beaten by Zacian & Zamazenta, as well as 1 of Leon's Pokemon &/or a Champion-level-trained-by-a-Protagonist Pokemon?
If we are to assume trainers can train even regular Pokemon to Legendary Levels, then that's notable. Multiple inferiors in a group can be superior as a total.
Ergo, Eternatus could be stronger than either of Zacian or Zamazenta, but not when it's them &/or 1 or more other Pokemon against it.
Look mate idrk what you're trying to say, I'm saying the whole thing's unreliable.
 
'Proper" scaling?
scaling that isn't riddled with questionable choices and outliers
Could dismissing Dynamax Adventures individually be an option?
That is the thing I want to happen man
"Stomp" might also be not fully accurate; Aren't Dynamax Adventures 4vs1? & isn't Dynamax only like, a 1.5x boost? They definitely don't stomp if they need to group up, no?
Anyway, is there any lore-related reason or statements to involve DA in the scaling? How do we know the Rental Pokemon aren't just Game Mechanics?
Exactly what im saying, Dynamax adventures CANNOT be stomps which means that the Legendaries would have to scale equally or relatively among each other
Oh & also this. Besides being Champion, what makes Leon a reliable source about the whole of what Pokemon are in the whole setting?
Has he done much outside Galar? Researched the Creation Trio?
Tbf he probably went to the tundra at least once but no he isn't that reliable
There's also the fact that wasn't Eternatus beaten by Zacian & Zamazenta, as well as 1 of Leon's Pokemon &/or a Champion-level-trained-by-a-Protagonist Pokemon?
yeah base Eternatus got handled by Charizard for a bit before he broke out of the ball and overpowered him. We then beat it with our own team 1v1.
If we are to assume trainers can train even regular Pokemon to Legendary Levels, then that's notable. Multiple inferiors in a group can be superior as a total.
Ergo, Eternatus could be stronger than either of Zacian or Zamazenta, but not when it's them &/or 1 or more other Pokemon against it.
Doesn't really matter since the crux of the issue is that Eternatus at this moment scales to 2-A and it ends up chainscaling to every other legendary.
 
Doesn't really matter since the crux of the issue is that Eternatus at this moment scales to 2-A and it ends up chainscaling to every other legendary.
TBH there are way more ways than just Eternatus and Dynamax Adventures to chainscale every legendary to the CT. Biggest ones off the top of my head are the Hoopa movie, the Darkrai movie, Base Stat totals, which legendaries are classified as “restricted” mons in VCG, and I’m positive there are more.
 
TBH there are way more ways than just Eternatus and Dynamax Adventures to chainscale every legendary to the CT. Biggest ones off the top of my head are the Hoopa movie, the Darkrai movie, Base Stat totals, which legendaries are classified as “restricted” mons in VCG, and I’m positive there are more.
There's a lot but to me a lot of it smells of outliers and just us ignoring the fact that some have varies ratings, like Darkrai, of which there's several, who varies from like 6-C to genuiene 2-C to 2-A
 
Ideally I'd scale CT like this

At least High 3-A, up to 2-A | 2-A | At least 2-A

Base | Origin | True Form

but that isn't really up to me sadly and they have 2-A feats in base forms which complicates things
 
There's a lot but to me a lot of it smells of outliers and just us ignoring the fact that some have varies ratings, like Darkrai, of which there's several, who varies from like 6-C to genuiene 2-C to 2-A
Actually, what basis is there for most legends just not scaling to the CT, are there anti-feats? Cuz I genuinely cannot think of any other than them being beaten by non-legends, but that occurs for the CT as well.
 
Actually, what basis is there for most legends just not scaling to the CT, are there anti-feats? Cuz I genuinely cannot think of any other than them being beaten by non-legends, but that occurs for the CT as well.
Strictly speaking its just how insane the inconsistency is across who fights who. There's supposed to be a difference but then the difference gets smudged again and again and then shown again and again.
My 2 proposals were simple
-accept 2-A as legit for all legendaries
-accept that they're not 2-A

so far the mods agree on not scaling them all to 2-A. If y'all want 2-A for all legendaries then go on and ping the admins to convince them otherwise.
 
When is that established in any official media? I mean direct statements, not just inferences.
I mean genuine showing. It's very clear that a guy whose whole thing is to haul continents is meant to be inferior in nature to the one who controls the integrity of the multiverse, so when the guys in question suddenly fight the lines between them gets smudged even though lore wise it's clear there's a different level and something on the level of Cyrus' plan would never be achievable with Groudon or Lugia - for example.
 
I mean genuine showing. It's very clear that a guy whose whole thing is to haul continents is meant to be inferior in nature to the one who controls the integrity of the multiverse, so when the guys in question suddenly fight the lines between them gets smudged even though lore wise it's clear there's a different level and something on the level of Cyrus' plan would never be achievable with Groudon or Lugia - for example.
You could argue it was only because of range and hax.
 
You could argue it was only because of range and hax.
Nah. They use the same energy that manipulates space-time for their Roar of Time and Spatial Rend attacks. Their heartbeat alone keeps space time running. It definitely scales to physicals.
 
Also just to support it, Palkia and Dialga physically clashing warped space time in 3 different universes casually.
 
Nah. They use the same energy that manipulates space-time for their Roar of Time and Spatial Rend attacks. Their heartbeat alone keeps space time running. It definitely scales to physicals.
I meant like maybe the other legends scale to Multi, but they didn’t have the range and hax to do it.
 
I meant like maybe the other legends scale to Multi, but they didn’t have the range and hax to do it.
like I said, you ought to convince the staff members in this thread of this if you want this to work. If I leave this be then everyone will forget once again and nothing will change.
 
like I said, you ought to convince the staff members in this thread of this if you want this to work. If I leave this be then everyone will forget once again and nothing will change.
People have already tried and failed, I don’t see what much I could do.
 
Isn't the primary source on rayquaza being the only thing able to stop the meteor a member of a group that basically worship rayquaza? Also could most legendaries even fly into space to stop the meteor before the planet's gravitational pull on the fragments leads to earth still getting hit by the mass of the fragmented meteor
 
Man I just wanna finish the thread so we can move on the the other scaling topics
 
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