NARUTO CRT. SHIBAI Ōtsutsuki Revisiting (HDE)

[Ghostimuscrime]

Not ap. I was wondering how a 4d being has 3d powers? Like general abilities in question and range. Even size tbh

Type 9 (Multiversal): Characters as large as, or larger than, a collection of several universal space-time continuums. Note that as with all of these types, this is only referring to size. Having 4-dimensional power or above does not qualify as having multiversal size, but such characters can contend with them.

These questions are better left for the general discussion thread and not here

nvm

 

[karo_senpaii]

These questions are better left for the general discussion thread and not here

Power ≠ existence. Can't you read what you're referencing?

 

[HelloThere1089]

Not ap. I was wondering how a 4d being has 3d powers? Like general abilities in question and range. Even size tbh

In a way, yes

Not ap. I was wondering how a 4d being has 3d powers? Like general abilities in question and range. Even size tbh

Kinda

Not ap. I was wondering how a 4d being has 3d powers? Like general abilities in question and range. Even size tbh

A few

Edit: A bunch of things need to be added with HDE. So not really a bad thing to bring up in this thread.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Nvm, size does seem included in the HDE page

 

[karo_senpaii]

In a way, yes

Kinda

A few

Edit: A bunch of things need to be added with HDE. So not really a bad thing to bring up in this thread.

Exactly my point. It comes with a few stuff like range and size e.t.c . I get the wiki rules on ap but the rest stuff it affects it.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Exactly my point. It comes with a few stuff like range and size e.t.c . I get the wiki rules on ap but the rest stuff it affects it.

Idk who is making the changes but they need to read the pages and add these in the P&A. Can't have another thread for sum so small.

 

[MattaGrimm]

1. The Principal Argument: "Kōjigen no Senzai" (Higher-Dimensional Existence)

The main point of the debate revolves around the expression 「高次元の存在」 (Kōjigen no Senzai), which can be translated as “Existence of a Higher Dimension” or “Higher-Dimensional Existence.”

Many people discussing this phrase only focus on the word “Kōjigen” (高次元 = Higher Dimension) and interpret it merely as a reference to a “higher dimension” in a vague or metaphorical sense. However, they often overlook the second and most crucial component: “Senzai” (存在 = Existence). The presence of “Senzai” makes the statement far more explicit and concrete. It does not simply say that something is “related to a higher dimension” — it directly asserts that the being in question exists as a higher-dimensional entity. In other words, it is not just about “accessing” or “relating to” higher dimensions, but about a complete ontological( philosophy
pertaining to the branch of metaphysics that deals with the nature of being) state of existence at that higher plane.

This distinction is critical. By specifying existence rather than mere relation, the statement strongly implies a genuine transcendence into a higher mode of being. It is not metaphorical language about power, but rather a metaphysical classification of the character’s dimensional nature. From a mathematical and physical standpoint, the notion of higher-dimensional existence has clear implications. For example:

A 3-dimensional being cannot be fully comprehended by a 2-dimensional being, since the lower-dimensional entity can only perceive projections or shadows of the higher one.

Extending this logic, a higher-dimensional existence (4D, 5D, etc.) would transcend the totality of our familiar 3D + time framework, existing beyond it in ways that fundamentally surpass lower-dimensional perception.
BACK-UPS 1 AND PANELS:
OTHERS BACK-UPS TO PROOF THAT SONZAI=EXISTANCE :


2. The Confirmation from Momoshiki

The reliability of Amado’s statement about Shibai being a higher-dimensional existence is not only supported by the text itself, but also independently confirmed by Momoshiki. This confirmation adds a crucial layer of credibility because Momoshiki operates on a spiritual/mental plane that transcends the ordinary physical world.

When Momoshiki speaks about Shibai, he explicitly makes it clear that Shibai is not present within his own spiritual/mental plane, nor within the ordinary physical plane. Instead, he identifies Shibai as existing on a superior plane in all respects. This is extremely important:Momoshiki is a being who perceives both spiritual and physical parts of existence.

If even he cannot place Shibai in those realities and instead support the fact that Shibai is beyond them it implies Shibai’s transcendence is not hyperbolic but literal.

Thus Shibai is affirmed to dwell in a plane higher than both spiritual and physical existence, which naturally aligns with the concept of higher-dimensional existence (HDE).The claim does not stand alone. It is consistent with earlier supporting statements from other key characters:

Isshiki’s statement: To become a “God” one must consume planet after planet across the entire universe/cosmos. This phrasing explicitly references the universe as a whole framing godhood as something beyond the cosmic scale. The ultimate result is described as achieving a “flawless/unique existence higher than all.” This matches the exact language of transcendence and uniqueness that aligns with higher-dimensional existence.

Shikamaru’s statement: He asserts that a “God” is defined as being flawless. In natural language, “flawless” does not merely mean “very strong” — it carries the sense of perfection, without limitation, transcending all imperfections inherent to finite beings. This is consistent with the concept of a being who has surpassed every boundary of their verse.
BACK-UPS 2:

3. Religious & Philosophical Back-Up: Buddhism

Another important layer of support for Shibai’s transcendence comes from the influence of Buddhist philosophy, which Kishimoto has openly stated plays a role in the conceptual foundation of Naruto and Boruto.

In Buddhism, two fundamental concepts stand out:

Samsāra (संसार / 輪廻) – The endless cycle of karmic reincarnations, bound by birth death, and rebirth. It is the plane of suffering, limitation, and impermanence.

Nirvāṇa (涅槃) – The liberation from Samsāra. It represents freedom from the cycle of death and rebirth, the transcendence of suffering, and the attainment of a higher state of being beyond all ordinary existence These concepts were explicitly integrated into the Naruto/Boruto universe:

Hagoromo (the Sage of Six Paths) is portrayed as someone who escaped this karmic cycle rising above the limitations of reincarnation.

Indra and Ashura continued the cycle of Samsāra through their reincarnations which eventually culminated in Naruto and Sasuke.

The Kāma of the Ōtsutsuki is in essence, another expression of this cycle of rebirth, a karmic imprint that allows continuation of existence.which shows the superiority of shibai (this part is a logic supposition back-up im not trying to wank shibai thank you for your understanding)
BACK-UPS 3:


4. CONCLUSION: SHIBAI LOW BALL 4D-HIGH BALL 5D, I HOPE THIS THREAD IS USEFUL, IT'S MY FIRST TIME SO THANK YOU TO READ AND TAKE TIME TO UNDERSTAND AND THANKS TO ALL THE FRENCH AND ENGLISH NARUTO/BORUTO COMMUNITY FOR YOUR HELP TO CREATE THIS THREAD
HELPERS: @LUCIEN @IPW @IVOX @TONYJC @PROWESS @Dragon CLOVER

Agree:

Ghostimuscrime​

Samlex1234​

MrTayman616​

ExcelsisBerny​

NIERRE (THREAD MODERATOR)​

Shadowbokunohero​

Elyartaker​

LuffyRuffy46307​

Gamecooob​

HelloThere1089​

K'rimuru​

Neutral:

Disagree:

IvarUHQ​

​

Agreee

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Added HDE (4D) to his Post Ascension Key's P&As


I haven't added any of the other sub-abilities gained as a consequence of it as they are already included within HDE page.

 

[Shi4njutsu]

THANKS TO ALL PPL FOR DEFENDING MY POSITION AND AGREEING, THANKS FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING, I AM HAPPY FOR MY FIRST THREAD i HOPE THE NEXT ARE THE SAME AND DON'T DISAPPOINT PPL.
Now for the 5D i am basing it off Momoshiki statement but i can understand that is not enough anyway in boruto we gonna have surely proofs of his dimension and make it 5D (I HOPE SO) so that's all ty Shadow for the modifications and goodbye until next time.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

THANKS TO ALL PPL FOR DEFENDING MY POSITION AND AGREEING, THANKS FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING, I AM HAPPY FOR MY FIRST THREAD i HOPE THE NEXT ARE THE SAME AND DON'T DISAPPOINT PPL.
Now for the 5D i am basing it off Momoshiki statement but i can understand that is not enough anyway in boruto we gonna have surely proofs of his dimension and make it 5D (I HOPE SO) so that's all ty Shadow for the modifications and goodbye until next time.

If OP is satisfied with the changes I believe we can have this thread closed


n yeah congrats on the first successful crt !