NARUTO CRT. SHIBAI Ōtsutsuki Revisiting (HDE)

[IvarUHQ]

You're asking for amount of proof more than needed.

If someone is stated to be a higher dimensional entity + a fifth dimensional being and having power beyond all(Not based on Shibai, just giving example), you could still argue most of the thing you say as long as they don't show it "extremely clearly". It doesn't necessarily require those proofs, though it can be used as an anti feat IF the things you said is shown to be not the case for the character.

All the qualifiers I have given apply to entities and structures, and that doesn't change anything because shibai and dimension are supposed to have the same existence. and since when do we give HDE via kanji? That's not how it works. The vsbw has given qualifiers so that they are respected, and shibai has no qualifiers except for the kanji arguments, which are useless for HDE except for backup only. I'm surprised that a content moderator didn't notice this before. Shibai with HDE, but in his profile it said HDE and possibly next to it the main argument, which is similar in every way to this thread, based on kanji. Following that, the HDE was removed because no prerequisites were met. I'm just pointing out that we don't have HDE because the kanji used designates a higher dimension in the mathematical sense, because it's absurd to base it on that

 

[IvarUHQ]

You're asking for amount of proof more than needed.

If someone is stated to be a higher dimensional entity + a fifth dimensional being and having power beyond all(Not based on Shibai, just giving example), you could still argue most of the thing you say as long as they don't show it "extremely clearly". It doesn't necessarily require those proofs, though it can be used as an anti feat IF the things you said is shown to be not the case for the character.

Furthermore, the fact that a higher-dimensional entity is sufficient in your opinion is false, because that alone is never enough; it must always correspond to the given criterion.
Dimension = measurable property (number of coordinates), so there must be at least one indication that this property exists.
This requires at least one concrete indication (additional axes)

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

nah we dont, we have plenty of series with HDE via just statements as long as its not contradicted by anything and the dimension in question isnt referring to a parallel universe or pocket reality, which this kanji does not. there are entire entities on the wiki that are considered abstract,conceptual,metaphysical that do not act or behave in a way those kinds of entities should , like how abstract or conceptual beings even within platonic realms often have visual forms that often have things like mass or surface area. see most dimensional imps from DC or Marvel, statements are perfectly valid for scaling as long as its consistent and not blatantly incorrect. we do not need hard mathematical supplementary feats for every statement or else barely anyone on the wiki would get HDE

The kanji are not enough, several things are missing, prove that shibai has more than 3 independent coordinates so at least 4 then because the dimension of a space is exactly the minimum number of coordinates necessary without it no HDE, then an additional axis that is proven it will join the fact of having 1 independent coordinate in addition, the entity must carry out operations that a 3D being cannot do because certain constraints only exist in a given dimension and disappear in a higher dimension, the terms higher dimension even with math kanji or higher realm are refused if there is no explicit reference to higher axes just that's enough shibai has no qualifier and you only based on kanji

 

[IvarUHQ]

nah we dont, we have plenty of series with HDE via just statements as long as its not contradicted by anything and the dimension in question isnt referring to a parallel universe or pocket reality, which this kanji does not. there are entire entities on the wiki that are considered abstract,conceptual,metaphysical that do not act or behave in a way those kinds of entities should , like how abstract or conceptual beings even within platonic realms often have visual forms that often have things like mass or surface area. see most dimensional imps from DC or Marvel, statements are perfectly valid for scaling as long as its consistent and not blatantly incorrect. we do not need hard mathematical supplementary feats for every statement or else barely anyone on the wiki would get HDE

Yet so far and even in the HDE page which by the way gives examples of characters with HDE their HDE to them is explicit and perfect you are not precise like this thread or want to attribute it via a kanji that does not have enough concrete for the moment it is really much too much rate to affirm that, I want to be given an example of a character that has HDE because the kanji is translated by the existence of a higher dimension

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Yet so far and even in the HDE page which by the way gives examples of characters with HDE their HDE to them is explicit

this is the HDE thats explicit that you mentioned that gives them HDE

"Know that there are places beyond Tamriel where the cunning and the wary can go to learn forgotten spells. I speak of the planes of Oblivion. The sea of limitless dimensions contains an endless series of islands. Some are controlled by the mighty Daedric Princes; others are loosely connected to one minor Daedra Lord or another. "

attribute it via a kanji that does not have enough concrete for the moment

no it is concrete the kanji's usage of dimensions is specifically referring to dimensions in spatial and axis sense. there isnt room for interpretation it is the clear cut definition of it, the only thing that can change is if the word is being used literally or figuratively . if i wanted to specifically say a higher dimensional realm or space, in reference to mathematical spatial dimension that contributes to more than the 3 axis that we can perceived it would be 高次元空間 or Kojigen Kukan.
the kojigen part is specifically talking about dimensions in spatial sense

so if i wanted to say this car exists outside the regular 3 dimensions, id say 高次元の車 Kojigen no kuruma

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree with the 4D HDE too

 

[Gamecooob]

4D looks good to me

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

If I recall correctly the reason this wasn’t accepted before in the original profile creation by Deceived is due to a severe lack of information regarding this concept within Naruto. I don’t think there has been any new information regarding Shibai or higher dimensional existence so far within the series.

I can’t recall any character on this wiki that I’ve seen granted this HDE rating using these Kanji alone so I advise you to reach out to some admins that are experts on HDE ratings on this site such as DontTalkDT or Ultima.

 

[Doctorsolos]

I disagree at the moment. There are different planes of existence in Naruto. This is a known fact: spiritual, conceptual, energetic, metaphysical. So, it would be absurd to determine Amado by looking at a single expression and kanji. Momoshiki's range capacity is obvious, it would be a complete deception if he couldn't sense it in this plane of existence because assuming he's in a spiritual or different universe/pocket dimension, it would be impossible for him to sense it.

Modus Ponens: If P → Q and P is true, then Q is true.
Modus Tollens: If P → Q and Q is false, then P is false.
Hypothetical Syllogism: If P → Q and Q → R, then P → R.
Completely refuting the claims
If p - its existence is 4B
Q is true - Amados' reference was a 4-dimensional being
But if
P - its existence is truly 4D but Amado somehow detected it
(This is clearly wrong because Amado discovered the existence of a 4-dimensional God)
Then Q - shibai is 4D (which would also be wrong)
Why is it wrong?
A true 4D entity would be infinitely above 3D, so none of the 3D objects or characters could see or sense it because it is only a 4D entity, and yes, even if Shibai stood next to them, they would sense nothing.
Now a hypothetical comparison:
- p -> it is a spiritual entity, so -> Q somehow detected its existence.
Therefore,
P->Q
Now, reductio ad absurdum, the fact that amado can detect its presence leads to the absurd/impossible conclusion that shibai is 4D, because 4D is completely above 3D and therefore there is no way to detect it.
Now
Bandwagon Fallacy and appealing to authority
If they say
Everyone believes shibai is 4D, so it must be (majority)
When to object to authority
They say it's 4D because Momoshiki said it's above 3D
Even though there is no evidence proving Momo is 100% correct

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

, I want to be given an example of a character that has HDE because the kanji is translated by the exi=stence of a higher dimension

Godzilla singularity

でもティルダ」と主任研究員である李は言った。「宇宙は数学の言葉で書かれているのだし」「あんたの仕事は」と研究部長であるBBは言う。「脳のどこに多く血流を配分するかであって、何かを思考することじゃない」「自分でも」と各国政府との折衝役を引き受けているスティーブンは言った。「保守的にすぎると思わんかね。われわれは超物理学的存在と、超生物学的分子を保有しているというのに」「だからだ」とティルダは応える。施設が管理しているのは、現代の物理学も化学も生物学も超えたなにものかで、問題は、現代の物理学も化学も生物学も万全の理解などは望めない複雑さに達していることだった。研究者たちは自らの専門について話し、政治家はその可能性について云々していたが、誰にも全貌を見ることは叶わなかった。檻の中に象がいて、それぞれ自分の立ち位置からそれを象だと考えている。しかし、当の象が本当に象であるかの確証はなく、あるとき不意に檻をそのまますり抜けて、姿を変えて、暴れだすかもわからなかった。BBの意見によるとシャランガは、アーキタイプ分子群が生み出した新種の生物であり、「急速に『進化』を遂げたその姿であるという。ティルダにはBBの言葉が、文法は正確なのに単語の使い方を学んでいない機械が作り出したものに聞こえる。世界中に怪獣があふれ、個々に変化を続ける現状において、さすがにティルダも今さら、『進化』という単語の厳密さを問うつもりはなかった。シャランガがたとえば、無数の卵、オタマジャクシの群れ、カエルの集団という形で順を追って現れたなら、ティルダとしてもその存在を受け入れられたのではないかと思う。施設に迫るシャランガは、ただ一個体として登場し、そして形状を保ったまま巨大化していた。「怪獣たちは」というのがBBの意見であって、「知覚情報を共有してるふしがある。アーキタイプが実際に高次元

高次元= kojigen= Higher Dimensional

english=the monsters" share perceptual information with each other. If archetypes are molecules reaching out to higher dimensions, I wouldn't be surprised if such communication between individuals exists. I don't know how much of BB's reply, "Maybe, maybe not," really meant. Tilda's opinion is that the event of the first

heres another example that has its origin in the original japanese kanji of Kojigen but was then translated and accepted as valid

 

[karo_senpaii]

I disagree at the moment. There are different planes of existence in Naruto. This is a known fact: spiritual, conceptual, energetic, metaphysical. So, it would be absurd to determine Amado by looking at a single expression and kanji. Momoshiki's range capacity is obvious, it would be a complete deception if he couldn't sense it in this plane of existence because assuming he's in a spiritual or different universe/pocket dimension, it would be impossible for him to sense it.

Modus Ponens: If P → Q and P is true, then Q is true.
Modus Tollens: If P → Q and Q is false, then P is false.
Hypothetical Syllogism: If P → Q and Q → R, then P → R.
Completely refuting the claims
If p - its existence is 4B
Q is true - Amados' reference was a 4-dimensional being
But if
P - its existence is truly 4D but Amado somehow detected it
(This is clearly wrong because Amado discovered the existence of a 4-dimensional God)
Then Q - shibai is 4D (which would also be wrong)
Why is it wrong?
A true 4D entity would be infinitely above 3D, so none of the 3D objects or characters could see or sense it because it is only a 4D entity, and yes, even if Shibai stood next to them, they would sense nothing.
Now a hypothetical comparison:
- p -> it is a spiritual entity, so -> Q somehow detected its existence.
Therefore,
P->Q
Now, reductio ad absurdum, the fact that amado can detect its presence leads to the absurd/impossible conclusion that shibai is 4D, because 4D is completely above 3D and therefore there is no way to detect it.
Now
Bandwagon Fallacy and appealing to authority
If they say
Everyone believes shibai is 4D, so it must be (majority)
When to object to authority
They say it's 4D because Momoshiki said it's above 3D
Even though there is no evidence proving Momo is 100% correct

Da ****!!!!

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I disagree at the moment. There are different planes of existence in Naruto. This is a known fact: spiritual, conceptual, energetic, metaphysical. So, it would be absurd to determine Amado by looking at a single expression and kanji. Momoshiki's range capacity is obvious, it would be a complete deception if he couldn't sense it in this plane of existence because assuming he's in a spiritual or different universe/pocket dimension, it would be impossible for him to sense it.

Modus Ponens: If P → Q and P is true, then Q is true.
Modus Tollens: If P → Q and Q is false, then P is false.
Hypothetical Syllogism: If P → Q and Q → R, then P → R.
Completely refuting the claims
If p - its existence is 4B
Q is true - Amados' reference was a 4-dimensional being
But if
P - its existence is truly 4D but Amado somehow detected it
(This is clearly wrong because Amado discovered the existence of a 4-dimensional God)
Then Q - shibai is 4D (which would also be wrong)
Why is it wrong?
A true 4D entity would be infinitely above 3D, so none of the 3D objects or characters could see or sense it because it is only a 4D entity, and yes, even if Shibai stood next to them, they would sense nothing.
Now a hypothetical comparison:
- p -> it is a spiritual entity, so -> Q somehow detected its existence.
Therefore,
P->Q
Now, reductio ad absurdum, the fact that amado can detect its presence leads to the absurd/impossible conclusion that shibai is 4D, because 4D is completely above 3D and therefore there is no way to detect it.
Now
Bandwagon Fallacy and appealing to authority
If they say
Everyone believes shibai is 4D, so it must be (majority)
When to object to authority
They say it's 4D because Momoshiki said it's above 3D
Even though there is no evidence proving Momo is 100% correct

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

If I recall correctly the reason this wasn’t accepted before in the original profile creation by Deceived is due to a severe lack of information regarding this concept within Naruto. I don’t think there has been any new information regarding Shibai or higher dimensional existence so far within the series.

The things changed a bit, there’s a difference in wording now that got lost in the viz translation, higher dimensional existence (those are the words it directly translates to) is more direct than saying x or y character went to a higher dimension

Also helps that Jigen strictly means dimensions in the scientific sense and the dictionary links to the Wikipedia section that breaks down the difference between 1D 2D 3D 4Dness

 

[IvarUHQ]

Godzilla singularity

でもティルダ」と主任研究員である李は言った。「宇宙は数学の言葉で書かれているのだし」「あんたの仕事は」と研究部長であるBBは言う。「脳のどこに多く血流を配分するかであって、何かを思考することじゃない」「自分でも」と各国政府との折衝役を引き受けているスティーブンは言った。「保守的にすぎると思わんかね。われわれは超物理学的存在と、超生物学的分子を保有しているというのに」「だからだ」とティルダは応える。施設が管理しているのは、現代の物理学も化学も生物学も超えたなにものかで、問題は、現代の物理学も化学も生物学も万全の理解などは望めない複雑さに達していることだった。研究者たちは自らの専門について話し、政治家はその可能性について云々していたが、誰にも全貌を見ることは叶わなかった。檻の中に象がいて、それぞれ自分の立ち位置からそれを象だと考えている。しかし、当の象が本当に象であるかの確証はなく、あるとき不意に檻をそのまますり抜けて、姿を変えて、暴れだすかもわからなかった。BBの意見によるとシャランガは、アーキタイプ分子群が生み出した新種の生物であり、「急速に『進化』を遂げたその姿であるという。ティルダにはBBの言葉が、文法は正確なのに単語の使い方を学んでいない機械が作り出したものに聞こえる。世界中に怪獣があふれ、個々に変化を続ける現状において、さすがにティルダも今さら、『進化』という単語の厳密さを問うつもりはなかった。シャランガがたとえば、無数の卵、オタマジャクシの群れ、カエルの集団という形で順を追って現れたなら、ティルダとしてもその存在を受け入れられたのではないかと思う。施設に迫るシャランガは、ただ一個体として登場し、そして形状を保ったまま巨大化していた。「怪獣たちは」というのがBBの意見であって、「知覚情報を共有してるふしがある。アーキタイプが実際に高次元

高次元= kojigen= Higher Dimensional

english=the monsters" share perceptual information with each other. If archetypes are molecules reaching out to higher dimensions, I wouldn't be surprised if such communication between individuals exists. I don't know how much of BB's reply, "Maybe, maybe not," really meant. Tilda's opinion is that the event of the first

heres another example that has its origin in the original japanese kanji of Kojigen but was then translated and accepted as valid

In fact I am not against that it is HDE but I am against it being 4D end I do not understand why 4D has no indication of the bed dimension of this dimension I want it to be HDE but 4D I fompten

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

There are different planes of existence in Naruto. This is a known fact: spiritual, conceptual, energetic, metaphysical. So, it would be absurd to determine Amado by looking at a single expression and kanji.

The kanji is super clear. 高次元 (kōjigen) literally means “higher dimension.” Unlike vague stuff like “spiritual” or “metaphysical” it actually points to something hyperspecifc. the dimension in this context isnt intended to be a blanket term.

P - its existence is truly 4D but Amado somehow detected it
(This is clearly wrong because Amado discovered the existence of a 4-dimensional God)
Then Q - shibai is 4D (which would also be wrong)
Why is it wrong?
A true 4D entity would be infinitely above 3D, so none of the 3D objects or characters could see or sense it because it is only a 4D entity, and yes, even if Shibai stood next to them, they would sense nothing.

this is a bad argument ,amado did not sense shibai with his sensory organs, he deduced it as a scientist, we can do this IRL, we have deduced spatial dimension up to 11-D IRL

Now, reductio ad absurdum, the fact that amado can detect its presence leads to the absurd/impossible conclusion that shibai is 4D, because 4D is completely above 3D and therefore there is no way to detect it.

read again

Now
Bandwagon Fallacy and appealing to authority
If they say
Everyone believes shibai is 4D, so it must be (majority)
When to object to authority
They say it's 4D because Momoshiki said it's above 3D
Even though there is no evidence proving Momo is 100% correct

calling it an appeal to authority in this case doesnt make sense because an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, and whats happening in the story isnt an argument. character B agreeing with character A isnt trying to prove the statement to anyone, it’s just part of the narrative establishing whats true in that world. In fiction, when the story presents something as fact through character statements, its treated as true within the story’s logic until its contradicted, not because anyone is “authoritative.” So calling it a fallacy here is just a misunderstanding of what an appeal to authority actually is.

 

[Nierre]

sensing a lot of bad actors here

Shadow makes alot of sense to me

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The things changed a bit, there’s a difference in wording now that got lost in the viz translation, higher dimensional existence (those are the words it directly translates to) is more direct than saying x or y character went to a higher dimension

Also helps that Jigen strictly means dimensions in the scientific sense and the dictionary links to the Wikipedia section that breaks down the difference between 1D 2D 3D 4Dness

I’m not sure if just the kanji representing higher dimension is enough. It is why I suggest asking one of the experts on this topic within the the wiki’s tiering system.

Even the pages Shadow seems to have linked have much more evidence than just that from what I can see.

 

[IvarUHQ]

I’m not sure if just the kanji representing higher dimension is enough. It is why I suggest asking one of the experts on this topic within the the wiki’s tiering system.

Even the pages Shadow seems to have linked have much more evidence than just that from what I can see.

I said to myself the same thing end the difference is huge

 

[Wesker018]

I disagree at the moment. There are different planes of existence in Naruto. This is a known fact: spiritual, conceptual, energetic, metaphysical. So, it would be absurd to determine Amado by looking at a single expression and kanji. Momoshiki's range capacity is obvious, it would be a complete deception if he couldn't sense it in this plane of existence because assuming he's in a spiritual or different universe/pocket dimension, it would be impossible for him to sense it.

Modus Ponens: If P → Q and P is true, then Q is true.
Modus Tollens: If P → Q and Q is false, then P is false.
Hypothetical Syllogism: If P → Q and Q → R, then P → R.
Completely refuting the claims
If p - its existence is 4B
Q is true - Amados' reference was a 4-dimensional being
But if
P - its existence is truly 4D but Amado somehow detected it
(This is clearly wrong because Amado discovered the existence of a 4-dimensional God)
Then Q - shibai is 4D (which would also be wrong)
Why is it wrong?
A true 4D entity would be infinitely above 3D, so none of the 3D objects or characters could see or sense it because it is only a 4D entity, and yes, even if Shibai stood next to them, they would sense nothing.
Now a hypothetical comparison:
- p -> it is a spiritual entity, so -> Q somehow detected its existence.
Therefore,
P->Q
Now, reductio ad absurdum, the fact that amado can detect its presence leads to the absurd/impossible conclusion that shibai is 4D, because 4D is completely above 3D and therefore there is no way to detect it.
Now
Bandwagon Fallacy and appealing to authority
If they say
Everyone believes shibai is 4D, so it must be (majority)
When to object to authority
They say it's 4D because Momoshiki said it's above 3D
Even though there is no evidence proving Momo is 100% correct

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

The kanji is super clear. 高次元 (kōjigen) literally means “higher dimension.” Unlike vague stuff like “spiritual” or “metaphysical” it actually points to something hyperspecifc. the dimension in this context isnt intended to be a blanket term.

this is a bad argument ,amado did not sense shibai with his sensory organs, he deduced it as a scientist, we can do this IRL, we have deduced spatial dimension up to 11-D IRL

read again

calling it an appeal to authority in this case doesnt make sense because an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, and whats happening in the story isnt an argument. character B agreeing with character A isnt trying to prove the statement to anyone, it’s just part of the narrative establishing whats true in that world. In fiction, when the story presents something as fact through character statements, its treated as true within the story’s logic until its contradicted, not because anyone is “authoritative.” So calling it a fallacy here is just a misunderstanding of what an appeal to authority actually is.

I think he is just trolling dw.

 

[Samlex1234]

I’m not sure if just the kanji representing a higher dimension is enough. It is why I suggest asking one of the experts on this topic within the the wiki’s tiering system.

Even the pages Shadow seems to have linked have much more evidence than just that from what I can see.

You can't just keep saying not enough not enough. The Op already established his reasons for and backed it up with facts from the manga and other canon source materials like the Databooks and your only refutation is not enough?, .…What is not enough?. If you would not tackle the arguments provided then just allow those that will to.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

“Yeah it does say mathematically higher dimension but that doesn’t mean mathematically higher dimension you need to go out and do this and that [insert arbitrary standard] in order to qualify”

I really dislike these types of retorts because they’re a vague way of dismissing something without actually countering any of the arguments

A direct uncontradicted statement IS the evidence for it, the burden of proof shifts back on the opposition

 

[MrTayman616]

so just wanted to know the thread for what i saw is going very well almost everybody accepted the HDE 4D and we have the support of the content moderator (thank you) so we are closing today? or we have to wait?

In order to ensure that all revisions are thoroughly reviewed and approved, it is necessary for a minimum of two staff members to sign off on any proposed changes. The concluding evaluations must be handled by Thread Moderators, Administrators, and Bureaucrats, who should make an effort to base their evaluations on valid arguments, not personal opinions.

In cases where the series verse has a significant following or a large amount of material has been published based on its content, it may be necessary to seek approval from a minimum of three staff members to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed revisions (Examples: Naruto, Marvel Comics, DC Comics, Dragon Ball, Devil May Cry, God of War, One Piece, Bleach).

You need three staff vote for agreement.

You can check more from here

 

[Elyartaker]

Interesting.
I think I can agree with 4D HDE.

 

[K'rimuru]

Personally, I agree with the HDE 4D but neutral with the 5D.
I'm a bit lacking in knowledge to put it higher than 4D, even though I know the Boruto verse..

 

[HelloThere1089]

I disagree at the moment. There are different planes of existence in Naruto. This is a known fact: spiritual, conceptual, energetic, metaphysical. So, it would be absurd to determine Amado by looking at a single expression and kanji. Momoshiki's range capacity is obvious, it would be a complete deception if he couldn't sense it in this plane of existence because assuming he's in a spiritual or different universe/pocket dimension, it would be impossible for him to sense it.

Modus Ponens: If P → Q and P is true, then Q is true.
Modus Tollens: If P → Q and Q is false, then P is false.
Hypothetical Syllogism: If P → Q and Q → R, then P → R.
Completely refuting the claims
If p - its existence is 4B
Q is true - Amados' reference was a 4-dimensional being
But if
P - its existence is truly 4D but Amado somehow detected it
(This is clearly wrong because Amado discovered the existence of a 4-dimensional God)
Then Q - shibai is 4D (which would also be wrong)
Why is it wrong?
A true 4D entity would be infinitely above 3D, so none of the 3D objects or characters could see or sense it because it is only a 4D entity, and yes, even if Shibai stood next to them, they would sense nothing.
Now a hypothetical comparison:
- p -> it is a spiritual entity, so -> Q somehow detected its existence.
Therefore,
P->Q
Now, reductio ad absurdum, the fact that amado can detect its presence leads to the absurd/impossible conclusion that shibai is 4D, because 4D is completely above 3D and therefore there is no way to detect it.
Now
Bandwagon Fallacy and appealing to authority
If they say
Everyone believes shibai is 4D, so it must be (majority)
When to object to authority
They say it's 4D because Momoshiki said it's above 3D
Even though there is no evidence proving Momo is 100% correct

Bruh. Did you find out about fallacies and propositional logic yesterday?

 

[HelloThere1089]

Interesting.
I think I can agree with 4D HDE.

I agree with Red John

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'm fine with 4-D basing off the scans leaning towards the mathematically higher plane/existence, characters alluding to a superior existence. I'm not gonna bother going over point 3 since being influenced or based of a religion has no barring on another work unless it's one for one, we don't do this as far as I'm aware and I don't agree with it being used as supporting evidence. However that doesn't changey stance, I still think 4-D (HDE) is fine. 5-D high ball is an absolute no as nothing supports that. Suggesting 5-D would require evidence of the cosmology actually having that level of structure which reaches the point where you'd need to prove that there exists a 5th dimensional axis of note and that's a tall order. Otherwise it's nothing that can be supported.

Regarding the the talk of more evidence as a counter argument of 4-D, a statement is fine so long as it's clear and has no problems. More evidence would be required of the OP started trying to give resistances or abilities that aren't generally given for HDE characters, then more evidence would be required because they'd try to apply things that aren't normally given. Overall, I'm okay with 4-D HDE (5-D is a no for me though as that requires a whole cosmology structure of evidence)

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

The kanji is super clear. 高次元 (kōjigen) literally means “higher dimension.” Unlike vague stuff like “spiritual” or “metaphysical” it actually points to something hyperspecifc. the dimension in this context isnt intended to be a blanket term.

I'm agreeing with that.

 

[Godernet]

I agree with Shadow and Grif's points.

4D HDE is fine.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

That's three votes, this thread has been officially accepted, I shall apply the changes to the profile since OP is relatively new

I agree with Shadow and Grif's points.

mind closing the thread?

 

[HelloThere1089]

So if I am understanding this right. The outcome of this thread is a change in justification right?

 

[karo_senpaii]

So if I am understanding this right. The outcome of this thread is a change in justification right?

Change in everything. His existence would affect his ap, hax, e.t.c

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

no, he's just getting HDE added to his P&As and nothing else we not boutta add things not approved by staff

 

[HelloThere1089]

Almost gave me a heart attack

 

[karo_senpaii]

Huh? How is a 4d existence having 3d powers?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Simply because AP & Dimensionality are not treated as the same thing here, if you disagree you're free to get it changed in a staff thread

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Huh? How is a 4d existence having 3d powers?

theres like whole page for it, hde here is mostly treated as the state of existence character has
if u obviously have proof their power correlates
with level of existence then u may have the character scaled there
anyway i did ask once on the naruto discussion why does shibai lacks hde and immortality type 9 which are honestly blatant so i agree with this thread

 

[HelloThere1089]

The proof is there

Spoiler: TBV

In the future

trust

 

[karo_senpaii]

Not ap. I was wondering how a 4d being has 3d powers? Like general abilities in question and range. Even size tbh