Major PTJ Universe Speed Upgrade

[Pxnd_013]

[Closed pending conclusion of this discussion.]

Major speed upgrade for PTJ Verse!!! Based on this widely accepted calculation, today I will upgrade the speed of certain scalable characters

1.Sinu Han
Who performed this feat

2.Eli jang
He was able to react to Sinu Han’s attacks and also fight on equal terms with Sinu alongside Warren

3.Warren Chae
He was able to react to Sinu Han’s attacks and also fight on equal terms with Sinu alongside Eli

4.Jake Kim
Comparable to Eli Jang

5.Jerry Kwon
Comparable to Warren Chae

6.Johan Seong
Superior to Jake Kim and Eli Jang

7.Daniel Park ( True Body )
He is comparable to or superior than other crew leaders ( Jake , Eli and Johan )

8.Zack Lee
Comparable to Johan Seong

9.Vasco
Comparable to Zack Lee

10.Vin Jin
Comparable to Zack and Vasco

11.Hudson Ahn
Comparable to Vasco and Vin jin

12.Ryuhei Kuroda
He almost defeated Sinu, and when he used the Wooden Sword Wrapped in Chains, he was able to fight Gun reasonably well

13.Yuseong
Comparable to Johan Seong

14.Mandeok Bang
Comparable to Yuseong

15.No.1
Comparable to other crews leaders

16.Taejin Cheon
Comparable to Vin jin

17.Samuel Seo
Comparable to Jake kim

18.Seonji Yuk
Comparable to James Lee

19.Jichang Kwak
Comparable to Daniel Park ( True Body )

20.Jaegyeon Na
Superior to Zack , Vasco and Vinjin

21.Yujae Seon
Comparable to Jaegyon Na

22.Gongseob Ji
Superior to Zack Lee

23.Taesoo Ma
Comparable to Gongseob Ji

24.Seokdu Wang
He is able to fight Eli, Warren, and Samuel

These are Top-tier & God-tier characters, clearly superior to Sinu
1.Gapyrong Kim
2.Shingen Yamasaki
3.Charles Choi
4.Jinyoung Park
5.Tom Lee
6.Gitae Kim
7.James Lee
8.Gun Park
9.Goo Kim
10.Daniel Park ( Perfect Body )
11.Manager Kim
12.Hansoo Seong
13.Jincheol Park
14.Samdak

_____________________________________________

Agree :

Neutral :

Disagree :

 

[Vzearr]

There is no evidence that he retracted his leg fully before going back, so distance moved is a highball.

 

[Pxnd_013]

There is no evidence that he retracted his leg fully before going back, so distance moved is a highball.

As with punching, kicking involves striking followed by retracting the leg to prepare for the next kick and to generate greater striking force by winding the leg. It is a natural human instinct; if the leg is not retracted, the resulting damage will be diminished

 

[Dinozxd]

The "Moving in frozen time" method got rejected in the original calculation as well, so I don't really understand the point of the recalc. You didn't make extra arguments for it nor changed anything with the calculation itself, just changed the distance to inflate the feat further. Strictly disagree. I don't even understand how it got accepted in the first place.

Also, a Calc Group Discussion Thread i made is still going on atm, which would downgrade the entire PTJ verse to Subsonic speeds if it gets accepted. Subsonic to MHS upgrade is pretty much an outlier if there's no other feats that are close to MHS.

 

[Pxnd_013]

The "Moving in frozen time" method got rejected in the original calculation as well, so I don't really understand the point of the recalc. You didn't make extra arguments for it nor changed anything with the calculation itself, just changed the distance to inflate the feat further. Strictly disagree. I don't even understand how it got accepted in the first place.

Also, a Calc Group Discussion Thread i made is still going on atm, which would downgrade the entire PTJ verse to Subsonic speeds if it gets accepted. Subsonic to MHS upgrade is pretty much an outlier if there's no other feats that are close to MHS.

That wasn't rejected, but Dmua just chose a low-end Transonic, which was a safe bet, but the calculation was wrong, and I did a new calculation, and Dmua finally agreed. In addition, there are several calculations accepted by CGMs for motion at rest, such as this calculation or this calculation

Since your CRT has not yet reached a definite conclusion, it cannot be applied for now. Moreover, the PTJ Universe has repeatedly shown that its characters can easily dodge bullets, which can be interpreted to mean they should be at least supersonic in speed

I will also forward this CRT to CGM to see what their opinion will be

 

[Viott]

Also, a Calc Group Discussion Thread i made is still going on atm, which would downgrade the entire PTJ verse to Subsonic speeds if it gets accepted. Subsonic to MHS upgrade is pretty much an outlier if there's no other feats that are close to MHS.

If the number of velocity calculations is low, MHS can be used.

As another example, there is a significant difference between Sub-Relativistic and Mftl+ in the Mashle verse, but it is still used.

 

[Viott]

I will also forward this CRT to CGM to see what their opinion will be

Problems related to calculations are intended for calculation group discussions.

Therefore, this needs to stay in the CRT.

 

[Dinozxd]

That wasn't rejected, but Dmua just chose a low-end Transonic, which was a safe bet, but the calculation was wrong,

That's not an excuse to using an already rejected method. The fact that he saw the method you used, and still chose the low-end means that he rejected the method you used.

and I did a new calculation, and Dmua finally agreed

It's probably because he forgot why he rejected the original calculation and didn't look much into this one, especially considering how many versions of this calc there is in the site. It happens.

In addition, there are several calculations accepted by CGMs for motion at rest, such as this calculation or this calculation

These don't mean anything.

Moreover, the PTJ Universe has repeatedly shown that its characters can easily dodge bullets, which can be interpreted to mean they should be at least supersonic in speed

You don't need to move at Supersonic speeds to dodge bullets. It changes from feat to feat. The distance you move in comparison to the bullet is what makes bullet dodging feats scale massively higher than bullet speed, or scale massively lower.

If the number of velocity calculations is low, MHS can be used.

Yeah I straight up didn't understand what you said here.

As another example, there is a significant difference between Sub-Relativistic and Mftl+ in the Mashle verse, but it is still used.

It's a case by case basis. For this one, the next highest feat in the series will probably be Akira's Subsonic feat. While Sinu should be massively above Akira, the difference in speed can't really be argued to be this much, especially when the technique Sinu's using in the "MHS feat" isn't even supposed to be fast. It's a kick that he uses to attack from blind spots of his opponent's. That's not even FTE.

 

[Viott]

It's a case by case basis. For this one, the next highest feat in the series will probably be Akira's Subsonic feat. While Sinu should be massively above Akira, the difference in speed can't really be argued to be this much, especially when the technique Sinu's using in the "MHS feat" isn't even supposed to be fast. It's a kick that he uses to attack from blind spots of his opponent's. That's not even FTE.

No. It's not that he only attacks blind spots — it's a rare and unique fighting style that involves attacking an opponent's blind spots extremely quickly and accurately. Also, Akira's speed feat is travel speed, while Sinu's feat is combat speed.

Sinu being far superior to Akira is enough for the speed gap between them to be this large.

 

[Dinozxd]

No. It's not that he only attacks blind spots — it's a rare and unique fighting style that involves attacking an opponent's blind spots extremely quickly and accurately.

Accurately, yes. Quickly, no. Sure, it's a quick attack but the attack being "invisible" doesn't have to do anything with speed. It's just that it's a relatively fast kick to the blind spots.

Also, Akira's speed feat is travel speed, while Sinu's feat is combat speed.

You're right about that. The best combat speed feat is pretty much Taehoon's combat speed statement of 136 mph, which is like 60 m/s. There's also Jay's statement that was a bit higher, but it was performed with weapons so it's kinda irrelevant.

Sinu being far superior to Akira is enough for the speed gap between them to be this large.

Not really, considering that he performed the "MHS feat" aganist

 

[Vzearr]

Toughest viott vs dino debate.

 

[Dinozxd]

Toughest viott vs dino debate.

It had to happen eventually

 

[Viott]

Accurately, yes. Quickly, no. Sure, it's a quick attack but the attack being "invisible" doesn't have to do anything with speed. It's just that it's a relatively fast kick to the blind spots.

This technique doesn’t just strike the blind spot, it is also stated to be a fast kick.

You're right about that. The best combat speed feat is pretty much Taehoon's combat speed statement of 136 mph, which is like 60 m/s. There's also Jay's statement that was a bit higher, but it was performed with weapons so it's kinda irrelevant.

These are the speeds mentioned in much earlier chapters; you should know that the characters are much faster now than they were before.


Also, Manager Kim cut a bullet effortlessly.

Not really, considering that he performed the "MHS feat" aganist

That's how things are going.

 

[Dinozxd]

This technique doesn’t just strike the blind spot, it is also stated to be a fast kick.

Do you have the scan for that statement? Also I do agree that it's a fast kick, kicks are supposed to be fast. The reason this kick is called the "Invisible Kick" isn't because of it's speed, it's because it's a kick that comes from the blind spots. There's nothing that indicates this kick is unusally faster than other kicks.

These are the speeds mentioned in much earlier chapters; you should know that the characters are much faster now than they were before.

They aren't quantifiably faster, so it's kinda worthless.

Also, Manager Kim cut a bullet effortlessly.

I don't see that feat being accepted in the verse page so whatever. I'm sure the feat has an inflated calc just like other speed calcs for this verse lmao

That's how things are going.

?

 

[Pxnd_013]

That's not an excuse to using an already rejected method. The fact that he saw the method you used, and still chose the low-end means that he rejected the method you used.

It's probably because he forgot why he rejected the original calculation and didn't look much into this one, especially considering how many versions of this calc there is in the site. It happens.

In short, you think that Dmua forgot that he had rejected it, even though I posted the link to the old calculation for him to see

These don't mean anything.

Why, when this is accepted and Dmua is the one who accepted it?

You don't need to move at Supersonic speeds to dodge bullets. It changes from feat to feat. The distance you move in comparison to the bullet is what makes bullet dodging feats scale massively higher than bullet speed, or scale massively lower.

I know, but usually you can give them Supersonic.

It's a case by case basis. For this one, the next highest feat in the series will probably be Akira's Subsonic feat. While Sinu should be massively above Akira, the difference in speed can't really be argued to be this much, especially when the technique Sinu's using in the "MHS feat" isn't even supposed to be fast. It's a kick that he uses to attack from blind spots of his opponent's. That's not even FTE.

It is not just about striking blind spots, but it also requires speed. For example, Seongji could not keep up with James Lee’s speed, but once he achieved a transcendence of speed, he was able to catch up to James Lee and nearly defeat him. Thus, speed transcendence elevates the user from one level of speed to another far greater level

 

[Viott]

Do you have the scan for that statement? Also I do agree that it's a fast kick, kicks are supposed to be fast. The reason this kick is called the "Invisible Kick" isn't because of it's speed, it's because it's a kick that comes from the blind spots. There's nothing that indicates this kick is unusally faster than other kicks.

The wiki states that he attacks the opponent’s blind spot at high speed and that this level can only be reached by those with superhuman speed.


Hitting a blind spot does not mean that the calculation cannot be used.

They aren't quantifiably faster, so it's kinda worthless.

Since they continuously improve themselves through training, this is possible. For example, in The Boxer, Yu is initially subsonic but later jumps to hypersonic, so this argument doesn’t hold.

I don't see that feat being accepted in the verse page so whatever. I'm sure the feat has an inflated calc just like other speed calcs for this verse lmao

The supersonic calculation already exists. However, since the bullet moves less, the result will come out higher.

 

[Dinozxd]

In short, you think that Dmua forgot that he had rejected it, even though I posted the link to the old calculation for him to see

It's possible.

Why, when this is accepted and Dmua is the one who accepted it?

They're calcs from other verses. They have no relevance here.

I know, but usually you can give them Supersonic.

These are regular users replying to the question, not calc group members. It's just answers they think are right, which doesn't really mean anything on a wide scale.

You don't get bullet speed combat speed for bullet dodging feats unless you move the same distance as the bullet. Let's say, a bullet gets fired from 5 meters away, and in the timeframe it takes for the bullet to move 5 meters, the character moves 5 meters as well. That's not the case for a lot of the bullet dodging feats Lookism have. The bullets move far more distance than the character who dodges it, which means that the bullet is much faster than the character. The Q&A thread you linked only applies for feats where characters can see bullets moving clearly, react to it(and PTJ doesn't have a feat like this as far as I know) and dodge it, which wouldn't even be qualify them for Supersonic combat speed for the reason i just talked about. It would just qualify for Supersonic reactions.

It is not just about striking blind spots, but it also requires speed. For example, Seongji could not keep up with James Lee’s speed, but once he achieved a transcendence of speed, he was able to catch up to James Lee and nearly defeat him. Thus, speed transcendence elevates the user from one level of speed to another far greater level

They're not the same character so this doesn't hold up. We know that James Lee uses invisible kick much better than Sinu does, anyway.

The wiki states that he attacks the opponent’s blind spot at high speed and that this level can only be reached by those with superhuman speed.

The wiki itself states that the attack is only invisible because it's used from blind spots. Also, requiring Superhuman speeds to use doesn't mean shit when the entire verse is full off superhumans. Idk what else to tell you.

Hitting a blind spot does not mean that the calculation cannot be used.

That's right actually. It's not even my main argument.

Since they continuously improve themselves through training, this is possible.

Again, this isn't a quantifier.

For example, in The Boxer, Yu is initially subsonic but later jumps to hypersonic, so this argument doesn’t hold.

It's a different series.

The supersonic calculation already exists. However, since the bullet moves less, the result will come out higher.

The POV and angles really mess the pixel scaling up for this, but it isn't really an accepted calc anyway so whatever.

 

[Viott]

The wiki itself states that the attack is only invisible because it's used from blind spots. Also, requiring Superhuman speeds to use doesn't mean shit when the entire verse is full off superhumans. Idk what else to tell you.

Hitting in blind spots doesn’t mean it can’t be done at MHS speed. What are you talking about?

Again, this isn't a quantifier.

This isn't important; it's a speed that was mentioned 302 chapters ago. The characters are now much faster than before due to training. So, you can't say "They aren't quantifiably faster"—things don't work that way.

It's a different series.

It’s not important.

The POV and angles really mess the pixel scaling up for this, but it isn't really an accepted calc anyway so whatever.

The POV in the first panel is quite good. Therefore, it doesn’t distort the pixel scaling.

 

[Dinozxd]

Hitting in blind spots doesn’t mean it can’t be done at MHS speed. What are you talking about?

Why r u changing your arguments so much? Just stay on one point mate.

Also, I never said that. I just said that the Invisible kick doesn't even require too much speed which I admit isn't really related to the topic. But it's more so you guys' fault for focusing on that while ignoring most of my other arguments for the feat lmao.

This isn't important; it's a speed that was mentioned 302 chapters ago. The characters are now much faster than before due to training. So, you can't say "They aren't quantifiably faster"—things don't work that way.

That doesn't mean they went from Subsonic to MHS.

It’s not important.

It is. I'm not talking about that god forbidden wank ahh verse, I'm talking about this... god forbidden wank ahh verse.

The POV in the first panel is quite good. Therefore, it doesn’t distort the pixel scaling.

This isn't the place to talk abt that though (I was referring to the second panel btw, the first panel doesn't even use angsizing).

 

[Viott]

Why r u changing your arguments so much? Just stay on one point mate.

Also, I never said that. I just said that the Invisible kick doesn't even require too much speed which I admit isn't really related to the topic. But it's more so you guys' fault for focusing on that while ignoring most of my other arguments for the feat lmao.

When did I change my arguments? Also, I didn’t ignore any of your arguments.

That doesn't mean they went from Subsonic to MHS.

The characters are the best example of initially being subsonic and later becoming fast enough to cut a bullet.

It is. I'm not talking about that god forbidden wank ahh verse, I'm talking about this... god forbidden wank ahh verse.

Just according to you. Lol

This isn't the place to talk abt that though (I was referring to the second panel btw, the first panel doesn't even use angsizing).

The POV in the second panel isn’t broken. Anyway, I won’t change the subject.

 

[Pxnd_013]

It's possible.

And don't you think about the possibility that he won't forget and accept it?

They're calcs from other verses. They have no relevance here.

You yourself said that "Moving in frozen time" was rejected, and then when I brought up another calculation, you said it was a different matter, even though in the end it was also "Moving in frozen time", and this calculation in the first feat was accepted.

These are regular users replying to the question, not calc group members. It's just answers they think are right, which doesn't really mean anything on a wide scale.

You don't get bullet speed combat speed for bullet dodging feats unless you move the same distance as the bullet. Let's say, a bullet gets fired from 5 meters away, and in the timeframe it takes for the bullet to move 5 meters, the character moves 5 meters as well. That's not the case for a lot of the bullet dodging feats Lookism have. The bullets move far more distance than the character who dodges it, which means that the bullet is much faster than the character. The Q&A thread you linked only applies for feats where characters can see bullets moving clearly, react to it(and PTJ doesn't have a feat like this as far as I know) and dodge it, which wouldn't even be qualify them for Supersonic combat speed for the reason i just talked about. It would just qualify for Supersonic reactions.

I'll let Viott talk to you about this instead, since in the latest episode of Manager Kim, a lower-level character in the story was able to see the movement of the bullets being fired, and Manager Kim cut them off.

They're not the same character so this doesn't hold up. We know that James Lee uses invisible kick much better than Sinu does, anyway.

But it is the same technique. What I want to emphasize is that those with transcendence speed gain a significant buff to their speed, as in the example I mentioned earlier. Furthermore, it is possible that the scene where Sinu delivers a kick was simply him using transcendence speed alone, since the old man was struck directly in the face. Can that really be called a blind spot

 

[CatLover313]

Only thing I'm going to say here is that since the Transonic end of the feat was accepted, you needed to make a CRT first about figuring out which feat between yours and the others should be accepted. A Calc Group Discussion would then be made between the Calc Group Members (though in this case, since DMUA evaluated both feats, he would choose the feat which is better). They might've likely forgot they already evaluated the same feat but in the end, it still needs to be chosen whether your MHS or Transonic end is more reliable before any Verse Upgrades can be done.

 

[Lethalr]

Yeah I straight up didn't understand what you said here.

I think what he was trying to say is that if the total number of Speed calculations the verse has is low, then it's fine to use the results of this one if accepted.

It's a case by case basis. For this one, the next highest feat in the series will probably be Akira's Subsonic feat. While Sinu should be massively above Akira, the difference in speed can't really be argued to be this much, especially when the technique Sinu's using in the "MHS feat" isn't even supposed to be fast. It's a kick that he uses to attack from blind spots of his opponent's. That's not even FTE.

The technique Sinu uses in this feat is definitely supposed to be fast. Not sure why no one has simply linked a scan that explicitly states this yet, but here. Verbatim that only those who are fast enough can do it

 

[Pxnd_013]

Only thing I'm going to say here is that since the Transonic end of the feat was accepted, you needed to make a CRT first about figuring out which feat between yours and the others should be accepted. A Calc Group Discussion would then be made between the Calc Group Members (though in this case, since DMUA evaluated both feats, he would choose the feat which is better). They might've likely forgot they already evaluated the same feat but in the end, it still needs to be chosen whether your MHS or Transonic end is more reliable before any Verse Upgrades can be done.

In my calculations, I have already explained why I said the old calculations were wrong, and Dmua agreed with it as he accepted it.

 

[Pyro9278]

I see it possible for the verse to climb to MHS with the direction it's currently taking, and yet, this shouldn't even come close to applying to those who aren't tops in the verse. Much of what would be generation 2 (if they are not tops like Crews Leader or Perfect Daniel) should not scale because it would completely break the distinction between God and the High levels with the rest of the verse.

So, for the moment my opinion is not against the calculation, but rather regarding the scaling of some characters.

 

[CatLover313]

In my calculations, I have already explained why I said the old calculations were wrong, and Dmua agreed with it as he accepted it.

Yes, but you should still get a verbal (or in this case, a text) agreement that they thoroughly looked at both calcs. Thats why this feat and thread was created for the same reason. The evaluator may have just forgotten or skimmed through it (often said) so they should know which feat is better by taking the time and really choosing which feat they believe is better and reliable for the verse (I.e., in the recalc rules page, they can ask knowledgeable verse members for info). This has happened for other recalcs too approved by the same person (Examples: 1 and 2).

 

[Pxnd_013]

I see it possible for the verse to climb to MHS with the direction it's currently taking, and yet, this shouldn't even come close to applying to those who aren't tops in the verse. Much of what would be generation 2 (if they are not tops like Crews Leader or Perfect Daniel) should not scale because it would completely break the distinction between God and the High levels with the rest of the verse.

So, for the moment my opinion is not against the calculation, but rather regarding the scaling of some characters.

Sinu is not a particularly strong character. His attacks were countered in time by Eli and Warren during the The Hunt for Big Deal Arc, and they were able to fight him on even terms. At present, both Eli and Warren have grown significantly stronger compared to that period, so there are several characters who can scale accordingly.

Additionally, Warren and Vin Jin during the 2nd Affiliate Arc were also able to respond to Sinu’s attacks

 

[Pxnd_013]

Yes, but you should still get a verbal (or in this case, a text) agreement that they thoroughly looked at both calcs. Thats why this feat and thread was created for the same reason. The evaluator may have just forgotten or skimmed through it (often said) so they should know which feat is better by taking the time and really choosing which feat they believe is better and reliable for the verse (I.e., in the recalc rules page, they can ask knowledgeable verse members for info). This has happened for other recalcs too approved by the same person (Examples: 1 and 2).

So, should I create a Calc Group Discussion then?

 

[Rynizenz]

Im not too sure if vzearrs comments mean much where he later admitted that he is not sure especially for that killer pietro feat. Feats similar to that kp feat are like very weird if it’s one timeframe or multiple different timeframes.

I’ll say it’s much better for the sinu feat all happening in the same timeframe cause he hit 5 different people instead of just one person where u can easily say they are stunned.

 

[CatLover313]

So, should I create a Calc Group Discussion then?

I would recommend it and ideally, DMUA quickly clears up the confusion on which calc taking proper time. Other knowledgeable members could also provide extra info if needed. It wouldn’t be the first time someone made a recalc, it was “approved”, just for the original calc to be preferred again. But typically, I see all sorts of recalcs only be accepted through a proper thread first.

 

[Pyro9278]

Sinu is not a particularly strong character. His attacks were countered in time by Eli and Warren during the The Hunt for Big Deal Arc, and they were able to fight him on even terms. At present, both Eli and Warren have grown significantly stronger compared to that period, so there are several characters who can scale accordingly.

Additionally, Warren and Vin Jin during the 2nd Affiliate Arc were also able to respond to Sinu’s attacks

The verse usually always shows the fighters on equal terms at times, although it is assumed that their rival is vastly stronger than them, either by being relative in skill or by being more cunning, such as when Allieds went to fight against the second generation in Busan, or current James Lee "lost" against Taeso Ma only to later defeat him with little effort.

 

[Pxnd_013]

Im not too sure if vzearrs comments mean much where he later admitted that he is not sure especially for that killer pietro feat. Feats similar to that kp feat are like very weird if it’s one timeframe or multiple different timeframes.

I’ll say it’s much better for the sinu feat all happening in the same timeframe cause he hit 5 different people instead of just one person where u can easily say they are stunned.

I think it could potentially be countered. Perhaps the character could react in time by seeing an ally being attacked, which might cause worry and disrupt their timing to dodge

 

[Pxnd_013]

I would recommend it and ideally, DMUA quickly clears up the confusion on which calc taking proper time. Other knowledgeable members could also provide extra info if needed. It wouldn’t be the first time someone made a recalc, it was “approved”, just for the original calc to be preferred again. But typically, I see all sorts of recalcs only be accepted through a proper thread first.

I’ll try asking him in the calculation, in case he responds

 

[Pxnd_013]

The verse usually always shows the fighters on equal terms at times, although it is assumed that their rival is vastly stronger than them, either by being relative in skill or by being more cunning, such as when Allieds went to fight against the second generation in Busan, or current James Lee "lost" against Taeso Ma only to later defeat him with little effort.

That already shows that the characters fighting are at a similar level in terms of speed. However, when considering strength, durability, and other attributes, they cannot be compared equally

Also, I don’t recall when James Lee lost to Taesoo Ma, but in that fight, James Lee simply wasn’t going all out from the beginning, which caused him to be pushed back initially. In this CRT, however, Eli and Warren can truly match Sinu, to the point that even Sinu himself acknowledges Eli and Warren as formidable opponents.

 

[Pxnd_013]

I’m going to take a nap now, and I’ll reply to you all when I wake up

 

[Rynizenz]

I think it could potentially be countered. Perhaps the character could react in time by seeing an ally being attacked, which might cause worry and disrupt their timing to dodge

The only instance of that maybe happening is the scene where oldman expression changes but again it only changed after he got hit. Also if that’s second half of the ally seeing oldman get hit first and dodge be true it would have been shown but they weren’t any extra panels besides them being hit in the air

 

[Dinozxd]

When did I change my arguments?

Like, couple of times. Whatever.

The characters are the best example of initially being subsonic and later becoming fast enough to cut a bullet.

That's just one character. Also I don't think MK was initially Subsonic to begin with. Isn't he a high tier?

Just according to you. Lol

Sure. Many people agreeing with something doesn't make it correct to begin with.

And don't you think about the possibility that he won't forget and accept it?

It's just weird how he accepted a "recalc" that was exactly the same as the original calc he rejected and didn't even give any reason why he accepted it.

ou yourself said that "Moving in frozen time" was rejected, and then when I brought up another calculation, you said it was a different matter, even though in the end it was also "Moving in frozen time", and this calculation in the first feat was accepted.

It being another calculation doesn't matter. It being a calc from another verse does. It's like bringing up DBZ calcs while discussing about JJK calcs.

I'll let Viott talk to you about this instead, since in the latest episode of Manager Kim, a lower-level character in the story was able to see the movement of the bullets being fired, and Manager Kim cut them off.

I checked the calc you're refering to here. The dude is NOT reacting to the bullet mate. He just sees it coming for a split second and closes his eyes because he knows he can't dodge that.

urthermore, it is possible that the scene where Sinu delivers a kick was simply him using transcendence speed alone, since the old man was struck directly in the face. Can that really be called a blind spot

Well the visual effects heavily imply that they're invis kicks.

I think what he was trying to say is that if the total number of Speed calculations the verse has is low, then it's fine to use the results of this one if accepted.

1. The total number of speed calculations are not low lmao. There are about 10 or more accepted speed calcs for PTJ verse on the verse page.
2. Even if it was low, having support calculations for higher speed feats is pretty much a must have.

The technique Sinu uses in this feat is definitely supposed to be fast. Not sure why no one has simply linked a scan that explicitly states this yet, but here. Verbatim that only those who are fast enough can do it

The statement itself says that the technique is only invis because it comes from blindspots and "fast enough" doesn't mean anything without further context.

 

[Lethalr]

The statement itself says that the technique is only invis because it comes from blindspots and "fast enough" doesn't mean anything without further context.

You're really making me question whether or not your argument is in good faith rn, because that's not at all what it says. It verbatim states "It's a level that only those who are fast enough can reach. They attack their opponent's blindspots so quickly... It seems as though their attacks are invisible." And in the case of this feat specifically, blindspots weren't even attacked, their faces were. That's like the least blindspot of all places you could possibly attack. "Only invisible because it comes from blindspots" couldn't be any more incorrect

"fast enough" doesn't mean anything without further context.

I'll provide some for you:

• The statement comes from Taesoo Ma, a First-Generation King. Directly after explaining Invis Attacks, he says that only two fighters have been able to reach that level, Pre-Gen's Elite and First-Gen's James Lee. He then alludes to the possibility of a Second-Gen fighter reaching that level, because well this is Sinu we're talking about.
• In this arc specifically, no one was able to react to Sinu's IA, except for Jake Kim who gets his infamous cheat code that is Gapryong Kim genes. Contextually, this means Sinu is massively faster than pre-amp Jake, who is faster than Daniel, who is faster than the rest of Gen 2, which includes Vin Jin who is massively faster than Akira.

 

[Viott]

That's just one character. Also I don't think MK was initially Subsonic to begin with. Isn't he a high tier?

I’m talking about most of the characters in the 2nd generation, for example the Allied Crew. Even though they were Subsonic at first, they’re now as fast as Manager Kim.

I won’t respond to two of your answers because they’re unnecessary.

 

[Pxnd_013]

The only instance of that maybe happening is the scene where oldman expression changes but again it only changed after he got hit. Also if that’s second half of the ally seeing oldman get hit first and dodge be true it would have been shown but they weren’t any extra panels besides them being hit in the air

He might have changed because he saw his allies being attacked, just like I mentioned. It can be interpreted in different ways. As for why they couldn’t dodge, it goes as I’ve already explained