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Genius fights a Genius

Vzearr

Vapour
He/Him
VS Battles
Retired
Messages
4,239
Reaction score
4,084

Kiyotaka Ayanokoji vs Yu -- RETRIAL


Rules:
  • Speed is not equalised.
  • Starting Distance: 15 meters
  • Location:
UFC Ring
main-qimg-df083421ae47e5fd312c3a0c7efe1a4d-lq

  • No prep time. No prior knowledge
  • Current Ayanokoji. Equipment: None
  • Start of Series Yu. Equipment: Boxing Gloves
  • Both are in character but willing to kill.
  • Ayanokoji's Stats:
    • AP: 13.2 Kilojoules
    • Speed: 72++ m/s
  • Yu's Stats:
    • AP: 7.77 - 9.92 Kilojoules
    • Speed: 34.3++ m/s, higher reaction speed
I assume these stat's stayed the same since the fights are still on the profile.
 
Skill - Ayanokouji is far more skilled in combat, skilled in multiple pieces of combat, not just boxing, which collapses when kicks are bought into the game. Ayanokouji has been training since he was a child and has had hundreds more fights than Yu has had. He's also so skilled he could take on multiple guards with a simple baton, not only that, but he was 9 at the time of doing so. Which means his AP not only massively upscales due to human biology but speed too (although the speed here is his teen version).

Reaction time - Yu has superior reaction time, but that doesn't change much considering Ayanokouji has Analytical prediction and that of a superior index. Ayanokouji can determine each and every possibility to visualize the future to some extent. Which is way above the league of "is stronger than a guy who can predict attacks for a short amount of time". Hell this isn't even Ayanokouji's best anpr feat and yet it outskills Yu, drastically. It's basically pre-cog!

Let's sit down and visualise.

Yu throw's a punch, only for it to be dodged, Ayanokouji throws a punch for it to just barley be dodged due to his superior speed. Ayanokouji predicting it would be dodge via anpr would set up a counter, ending the exchange.
 
My man came back and started spamming "ayanokoji vs X character" where he lost...
Is it against the rules? There is no need to derail here, I just want the site to be as accurate as possible. After this I'll have a phase to set new destruction values for different material.

But that requires me to build a machine so it'll take a month or so.
 
Ayanokouji is far more skilled in combat, skilled in multiple pieces of combat, not just boxing, which collapses when kicks are bought into the game. Ayanokouji has been training since he was a child and has had hundreds more fights than Yu has had. He's also so skilled he could take on multiple guards with a simple baton, not only that, but he was 9 at the time of doing so. Which means his AP not only massively upscales due to human biology but speed too (although the speed here is his teen version).
We went over this in the last match. Knowing more martial arts is not inherently as impressive as being massively skilled in just one. In fact, it's even less impressive than someone who massively specializes in a single skillset. Yu doesn't even train in Boxing, he was born inherently that good and passively becomes the best at any physical activity he does. Yu has also literally faced kicks in story and has dodged them, something he can do by reading his opponent's shadow, their heartbeat, their blood flow, the nerves firing in their body... Koji is not more skilled. He is an entire dimension below a level where he can even hope to graze Yu's aura. Koji is a peak human, Yu is a superhuman.
Yu has superior reaction time, but that doesn't change much considering Ayanokouji has Analytical prediction and that of a superior index. Ayanokouji can determine each and every possibility to visualize the future to some extent.
This is nothing impressive. We simply know that he can consider variables to predict the future, but Yu can also do that. He massively upscales from people who can do that. This isn't a feat to be gassed up, analytical prediction is inherently visualizing the future. Yu's analytical prediction, skill, precision, and everything is constantly growing without him even having to apply any effort. He also resists analytical prediction.

All of this was covered in the last match, except this time, I'm far more certain. Ayanokouji has zero chance of defeating Yu. This is a stomp match. Nothing's changed from last time.
 
Last edited:
This match should probably be put on hold as Yu's profile is in the middle of being revised, but either way, Yu wins easily.
 
We went over this in the last match. Knowing more martial arts is not inherently as impressive as being massively skilled in just one. In fact, it's even less impressive than someone who massively specializes in a single skillset. Yu doesn't even train in Boxing, he was born inherently that good and passively becomes the best at any physical activity he does.
No, fundamentally, a fighter with extended knowledge on multiple sports, would beat someone with impossibly good knowledge in one sport. It's not like Ayanokoji didn't excel in the martial arts he trained in. If he just knew them I would agree, but he's skilled in them and has several years of training with them, hundreds more fights than Yu has had, etc.
Yu has also literally faced kicks in story and has dodged them, something he can do by reading his opponent's shadow, their heartbeat, their blood flow, the nerves firing in their body... Koji is not more skilled. He is an entire dimension below a level where he can even hope to graze Yu's aura. Koji is a peak human, Yu is a superhuman.
It's not like he faced kicks from a kick boxer lol, he faces kicks from a boxer who wouldn't know the first thing about kicks.

Ayanokoji is literally superhuman, extraordinary genius level.
This is nothing impressive. We simply know that he can consider variables to predict the future, but Yu can also do that. He massively upscales from people who can do that. This isn't a feat to be gassed up, analytical prediction is inherently visualizing the future. Yu's analytical prediction, skill, precision, and everything is constantly growing without him even having to apply any effort. He also resists analytical prediction.
His resistance doesn't even work that well lol.

Ayanokouji outlasts Yu.
 
No, fundamentally, an fighter with extended knowledge on multiple sports, would beat someone with impossibly good knowledge in one sport. It's not like Ayanokoji didn't excel in the martial arts he trained in. If he just knew them I would agree, but he's skilled in them and has several years of training with them, hundreds more fights than Yu has had, etc.
It's definitely an advantage, but inherently, it doesn't guarantee that you will win against an opponent who specializes in a single martial art. There is no inherent advantages that guarantee victory. And like I said, experience doesn't really matter, Yu eclipses the entirety of boxing history with no effort on his part, he was born with the perfection of technique that can allow him to master anything and become skilled in whatever he does. He's basically constantly training simply by existing, he doesn't need anything beyond that.
It's not like he faced kicks from a kick boxer lol, he faces kicks from a boxer who wouldn't know the first thing about kicks.
Wasn't the point. The point is that Yu isn't inherently vulnerable to kicks. And if he's not inherently vulnerable to them, that means he can dodge them—you pointed out that kicks dismantle Yu's boxing style, I pointed out they inherently don't, so it then comes up to who's the better fighter. Which is Yu, by far. Like I said, he's reading countless physical factors at once, it's not going to be difficult to just move out of the way of a kick he's seen coming a hundred times already. His acrobatics are also insanely nutty since they can circumvent near-probability manipulation level luck, so at any moment he can bust out unconventional moves to just out-move Ayano.
Ayanokoji is literally superhuman, extraordinary genius level.
As a general intellect, yes. But it's not a math battle. It's a fight. And as a fighter, Ayano is not superhuman.
His resistance doesn't even work that well lol.
On the contrary, it works quite well, since it can resist Siha's prediction (something Yu himself also has but unfathomably better), which is far more combat-oriented than Ayano's, who has relatively little combat feats in favor of deductive reasoning feats.
Ayanokouji outlasts Yu.
Not possible, Yu is bombarding him with blows he can't predict from basically every angle which drill through his guard aiming for the weakest points of his body with practically microscopic precision. He's getting knocked out.
 
It's definitely an advantage, but inherently, it doesn't guarantee that you will win against an opponent who specializes in a single martial art. There is no inherent advantages that guarantee victory. And like I said, experience doesn't really matter, Yu eclipses the entirety of boxing history with no effort on his part, he was born with the perfection of technique that can allow him to master anything and become skilled in whatever he does. He's basically constantly training simply by existing, he doesn't need anything beyond that.
You just conceded it's an advantage, and that's all Ayanokouji needs to win. Anyhow, you're never guaranteed a win in a fight, so that makes no sense.
Wasn't the point. The point is that Yu isn't inherently vulnerable to kicks. And if he's not inherently vulnerable to them, that means he can dodge them—you pointed out that kicks dismantle Yu's boxing style, I pointed out they inherently don't, so it then comes up to who's the better fighter. Which is Yu, by far. Like I said, he's reading countless physical factors at once, it's not going to be difficult to just move out of the way of a kick he's seen coming a hundred times already. His acrobatics are also insanely nutty since they can circumvent near-probability manipulation level luck, so at any moment he can bust out unconventional moves to just out-move Ayano.
That's just not true, you never pointed that out. Yu can't be the "better" fighter, if you conceded that Ayanokouji has an advantage, then it's Kouji who is the better fighter.
As a general intellect, yes. But it's not a math battle. It's a fight. And as a fighter, Ayano is not superhuman.
He beat 4 people by pure skill, and stated that he could take on much more, he is superhuman.
Not possible, Yu is bombarding him with blows he can't predict from basically every angle which drill through his guard aiming for the weakest points of his body with practically microscopic precision. He's getting knocked out.
Doesn't work as Koji has anpr, Yu doesn't have Kouji's stamina.
 
You just conceded it's an advantage, and that's all Ayanokouji needs to win. Anyhow, you're never guaranteed a win in a fight, so that makes no sense.
That's just not true, you never pointed that out. Yu can't be the "better" fighter, if you conceded that Ayanokouji has an advantage, then it's Kouji who is the better fighter.
This just in, but, having an advantage in one (1) area, does not make you, a better fighter than the person you are fighting.
He beat 4 people by pure skill, and stated that he could take on much more, he is superhuman.
If it's beating multiple people with skills, people far, far below Yu do this. His own trainer is a former militant who can kill dozens of people on his own.
Doesn't work as Koji has anpr
Yu resists.
Yu doesn't have Kouji's stamina.
Irrelevant, he doesn't need it because he's putting Kouji down in a few minutes tops.
 
This just in, but, having an advantage in one (1) area, does not make you, a better fighter than the person you are fighting.
You conceded that he has an advantage in fighting, how does that no mean you're not a better fighter when you have an advantage in fighting, ie, skill.
If it's beating multiple people with skills, people far, far below Yu do this. His own trainer is a former militant who can kill dozens of people on his own.
90 percent sure, Ayanokouji beat several professional fighters to a pulp as a kid.
Yu resists.
He hasn't seen anyone with Ayanokouji's intellect and skill.
Irrelevant, he doesn't need it because he's putting Kouji down in a few minutes tops.
On what basis.
 
You conceded that he has an advantage in fighting, how does that no mean you're not a better fighter when you have an advantage in fighting, ie, skill.
I said he had an advantage due to having a wider variety of techniques to draw on. In no message did I even utter the words "Ayanokouji is a better fighter than Yu." I just said he knows more martial arts. But knowing more martial arts doesn't equate to superior fighting skill if you can't utilize them effectively.
90 percent sure, Ayanokouji beat several professional fighters to a pulp as a kid.
Cool, Yu had this level of skill from the day he was born with no training or tutelage.
He hasn't seen anyone with Ayanokouji's intellect and skill.
Doesn't prove anything, Ayano's prediction is nothing superior to what Yu can resist.
On what basis.
Not possible, Yu is bombarding him with blows he can't predict from basically every angle which drill through his guard aiming for the weakest points of his body with practically microscopic precision. He's getting knocked out.
Already explained. Yu hits him with superhuman precision and knocks him out. His accuracy and punching power is also constantly improving.
 
I said he had an advantage due to having a wider variety of techniques to draw on. In no message did I even utter the words "Ayanokouji is a better fighter than Yu." I just said he knows more martial arts. But knowing more martial arts doesn't equate to superior fighting skill if you can't utilize them effectively.
And Ayanokouji can't? That'd be an absurd claim.
Cool, Yu had this level of skill from the day he was born with no training or tutelage.
And?
Doesn't prove anything, Ayano's prediction is nothing superior to what Yu can resist.
Prove that. Let's establish that Yu hasn't come across anpr superior to Koji.
Already explained. Yu hits him with superhuman precision and knocks him out. His accuracy and punching power is also constantly improving.
Yu after beating Goku.
 
And Ayanokouji can't? That'd be an absurd claim.
Against Yu, yeah, he can't. It only qualifies as an absurd claim if you prove that Ayano's skills live up to this hype, but if they don't, Yu will demolish him.
Ayano had to train to get to a level realms below Yu. Yu had to do nothing to get where he is and is passively improving. Not a complicated thought process.
Prove that. Let's establish that Yu hasn't come across anpr superior to Koji.
I've already laid out the potency of his prediction several times. You've not done the same for Ayano. Not my job to argue your own point.
Yu after beating Goku.
If Ayano's Goku, Yu is Azathoth.
 
Against Yu, yeah, he can't. It only qualifies as an absurd claim if you prove that Ayano's skills live up to this hype, but if they don't, Yu will demolish him.\
I mean he literally beat multiple skilled fighters as a kid. How is that not living up to it's hype.
Ayano had to train to get to a level realms below Yu. Yu had to do nothing to get where he is and is passively improving. Not a complicated thought process.
That doesn't lead to the conclusion Yu is more skilled and would win.
I've already laid out the potency of his prediction several times. You've not done the same for Ayano. Not my job to argue your own point.
His profile is self explanatory, he's a supergenius who can predict the future to an extent.
 
I mean he literally beat multiple skilled fighters as a kid. How is that not living up to it's hype.
Because, as I've already explained, people in The Boxer can beat multiple people at once as well, and they are not even close to being close to Yu's skill level. It's not living up to the hype because to Yu, a feat like that doesn't even qualify as rudimentary.
That doesn't lead to the conclusion Yu is more skilled and would win.
Yes, it does. Ayano at his pinnacle can do things Yu can do at his lowest. That is a very clear and definitive gap in combat prowess that would lead to a victory.
His profile is self explanatory, he's a supergenius who can predict the future to an extent.
He's not a supergenius, and this is still not an impressive feat of combat analytical prediction, as I've already explained. Does he have any other feats of value? If not, then he's never grazing Yu.
 
Reaction time - Yu has superior reaction time, but that doesn't change much considering Ayanokouji has Analytical prediction and that of a superior index. Ayanokouji can determine each and every possibility to visualize the future to some extent. Which is way above the league of "is stronger than a guy who can predict attacks for a short amount of time". Hell this isn't even Ayanokouji's best anpr feat and yet it outskills Yu, drastically. It's basically pre-cog!
Why, for Ayanokouji's Analytical Prediction, are you proposing a pure statement that, as far as I'm aware, isn't even related to combat?

These are the feats, based on the profile:
Ayanokouji was able to determine that Manabu was aiming to throw his sister when he was still pinning her and even asked him to confirm it, on hearing the predictions, Manabu also asks Ayanokouji on how was he able to figure out what he was trying to do. Ayanokouji can out-predict his opponents after he completely understands their upper limit, this has been displayed when Ayanokouji misreads Ryuuen's upper limit and then corrects it, it has been confirmed when Tsukishiro and Shiba deliberately tried to hide their abilities to prevent Ayanokouji from gaining an advantage. However, He can use his intuition to read his opponents and also determine their abilities as well. Ayanokouji also analyzes Hōsen from the sides and predicts that he was aiming to harm himself, something which cannot be predicted from the posture Hōsen was in

and he also resists this:

Not saying he is Yu's level or not, but using the "every possibility" statement for a combat match is bad, especially since the maximum extent is unsure without further context. + Based on the scan alone, we can't determine the formulation speed of all those possibilities; it might not even be applicable WHILE fighting.
 
Skill - Ayanokouji is far more skilled in combat, skilled in multiple pieces of combat, not just boxing,
Quantity vs quality. Having a wider range moveset is a plus but does not even remotely imply superior combat skill in general.
I fear not the man who has trained 10,000 kicks once, but a man who has trained a single kick 10,000 times - Hitmonlee

Also him having a larger moveset can actually be bad for him. It would allow Yu to copy him and become even more skilled mid-combat since his profile notes become a master at whatever he learns.
which collapses when kicks are bought into the game. Ayanokouji has been training since he was a child and has had hundreds more fights than Yu has had.
Experience means nothing on its own, especially without context.

Reading their profiles Yu seems far more impressive as a fighter since it actually mentions impressive feats while Ayanokoujis basically just says "knows some martial arts, beat up people".

Even dismissing profiles and just focusing on what people in the thread said, I'd definitely lean more towards Azontr since most of your arguments hinged on taking something he said out of context in order to push a factually incorrect idea (that quantify of martial arts you know supersedes the quality of a single martial art)
 
Also him having a larger moveset can actually be bad for him. It would allow Yu to copy him and become even more skilled mid-combat since his profile notes become a master at whatever he learns.
Er, that's not technically in-character outside of specific scenarios where he's ordered to copy his opponent's moves to disrespect them :3 or if he's about to lose and has to draw on copied moves.
 
Er, that's not technically in-character outside of specific scenarios where he's ordered to copy his opponent's moves to disrespect them :3 or if he's about to lose and has to draw on copied moves.
Oh alright. Should still at least mean it can work as a safety net for him if he were to actually need it
 
If he ever needed to, yeah. But Ayano's never going to even graze him let alone push him to the brink, so just using his normal out-boxing style will work fine.
 
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