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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

ShakeResounding said:
Yeah, there is a blaring disconnect between the feats in the games comics for example.
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Do you guys remember that time Silver got knocked out from blocking a room sized explosion and yet during the Mimic arc later he lifted a huge rock formation to casually show off to "Duo"? In IDW the feats aren't even consistent with themselves yet alone with the games lol.
 
Snek said:
Do you guys remember that time Silver got knocked out from blocking a room sized explosion and yet during the Mimic arc later he lifted a huge rock formation to casually show off to "Duo"? In IDW the feats aren't even consistent with themselves yet alone with the games lol.
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Okay, but that seems more like AP =/= DC. Because Tails nearly died from a "wall level" attack from a Badnik in Lost World. And there's Shadow nearly dying from falling from space which would be like wall level if you did the math for it. You can prolly find a lot more "anti-feats" in the game too. I just think it's the AoE not being up to par with the AP tbh.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Okay, but that seems more like AP =/= DC. Because Tails nearly died from a "wall level" attack from a Badnik in Lost World. And there's Shadow nearly dying from falling from space which would be like wall level if you did the math for it. You can prolly find a lot more "anti-feats" in the game too. I just think it's the AoE not being up to par with the AP tbh.
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Vanilla and multiple Flickies tanking an explosion that one-shots Super Sonic is a highlight example in my eyes.
 
Theuser789 said:
Canon is canon, your personal feelings on the matter don't matter.
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b57b959f-c2a8-44a4-829c-2f89afec7370_text.gif
 
MysticMania said:
Vanilla and multiple Flickies tanking an explosion that one-shots Super Sonic is a highlight example in my eyes.
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stuff like this is why I hate when Sonic fans downplay Mario with his own anti-feats while Sonic has just as ridiculous anti-feats and vice versa

Instead of fighting, Sonic and Mario fans should team up to glaze the shit out of each other for an agenda that rivals even Soloku
 
TheStinkeer said:
Thanks for the response, my original message was probably a bit rude in hindsight so I apologize for that
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No problem at all dude! AFAIK you seem to be a newer member on the wiki (correct me if I'm wrong), and it would be hypocritical of me to call you out for that when we all have our bad days.

My recommendation is to think before you post. And this isn't just for your sake, this wiki holds some very annoying people that just know how to push your buttons. So it will always benefit you to make sure you aren't the "bad guy" in a given situation.

(Also I wouldn't call it rude per se, you're just questioning us as you have a right to).
TheStinkeer said:
- I'm aware SEGA considers Prime canon and Speed Simulator canon, although the confirmation for Speed Simulator's canonicity isn't too solid proof from what I've seen, but couldn't you ignore those entirely either way? Or would that be against the site's rules to ignore it?
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Yeah, unfortunately it's site rules to abide by canon. Which means no skipping out on Prime, and incorporating Speed Sim.

It wouldn't surprise me if Sonic Team made Speed Sim non-canon after the whole stunt that Roblox is going through with p3dos, which is why I'm waiting and seeing.
TheStinkeer said:
- tbh I'm less concerned about the feats between the two and moreso just how "disconnected" it feels in terms of story and characters yk? Like I know IDW was said to be canon multiple time but because it's a comic series and not a game, it just feels a bit disconnected if that makes sense. That said Frontiers mentioned Tangle (yay Tangle!!!) So maybe it's not as disconnected, but yk what I mean?
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Oh I getcha, and I agree with you. It's like a constant tonal battle.
 
Semi copy and pasting a thread I made on Twitter about one of the reasons I'm fond of the JP version of The End's fight

One huge difference in the script that makes the JP script for The End much better, in my opinion, is that The End isn't described to be in a weakened state. Lemme explain why this is important: The fight with The End is like a fight with fate and death itself, both in English and Japanese. You are fighting against the very thing that ruined the ancient's lives, as well as countless others, and it threatens to make you part of that countless number. However, the English version, for some reason, stated that The End had to regain its full strength. Of course, it was still superior to all of Sonic's foes, but like... It still kinda sours it? It puts an asterisk on Sonic and Sage defying fate and defeating The End for absolutely no reason. They are supposed to be struggling like all those before them, but succeed anyways, but then it's not the same thing bc The End was weakened? This isn't the same scenario that The Ancients and countless others faced. Unless I completely missed something, the JP version doesn't seem to have this. It's replaced with Sage thinking she needs to seal it again, with Sonic being described as the last hope. The same thing that happened to the Ancients and countless others is happening again with no extra notes, only this time, you destroy this superior being that doesn't understand these "lesser lifeforms" after showing it what life truly is, you break the chains of fate, you defied death itself. That makes the fight as impactful as its ever been, but that's not to say the English version isn't impactful. The characterization and speech there is still phenomenal and the general "fight against fate and death" idea is still there, but the weird asterisk it provides is literally just not needed

Since the Japanese and English versions are more complimentary to each other, especially due to Sonic being a JP IP targeted towards the West with both Japanese and American devs working on the game, The End was probably in a weakened state in the JP version. But isolating them Is when I think the JP version of The End's fight is a lot better for that one small detail, it's probably a nitpick as well but eh lemme yap some
 
TheStinkeer said:
Since the Japanese and English versions are more complimentary to each other, especially due to Sonic being a JP IP targeted towards the West with both Japanese and American devs working on the game
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Actually quick question, I recall some talks about Toyoda saying something about both English and Japanese games being valid but the tweet is unavailable, does anyone have it by any chance if it's actually real?
 
TheStinkeer said:
Actually quick question, I recall some talks about Toyoda saying something about both English and Japanese games being valid but the tweet is unavailable, does anyone have it by any chance if it's actually real?
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We already apply that rule to Sonic, we can use both languages
 
RedReaper616 said:
Sega the very moment Ken Penders passes on (they've been waiting for this moment for YEARS):
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Copyright stays even after the owner's death; it's an inheritable asset. What SEGA could do is talk with the heirs to decide if they want to sell the rights, which isn't certain (Technically, even Penders himself said he was open to give SEGA permission to use his characters if they paid him. SEGA just has no interest in this because they have better things to do).
 
Also, I could be wrong, but wasn't Chronicles the one that had irreparable changes in Sonic's world and had to be positioned as the first part of the chronological end or something like that? (It's not like Sega wouldn't be able to ignore that and put it at some random point without dealing with the game's cliffhanger like it happened with Sonic 4)
 
Sparkive said:
Also, I could be wrong, but wasn't Chronicles the one that had irreparable changes in Sonic's world and had to be positioned as the first part of the chronological end or something like that? (It's not like Sega wouldn't be able to ignore that and put it at some random point without dealing with the game's cliffhanger like it happened with Sonic 4)
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For Archie Sonic, yes. More specifically, when dealing with the Post-SGW chronology, Ian had to explain which games already happened, which were all of them except for Lost World, Unleashed (Which they were making an unique adaptation, in which case the generations version of Post-SGW had Sonic dealing with Unleashed events before they happened) and Chronicle, because as far he knew, that event took place far into the timeline

But, remember these statements were early after the whole reboot stuff and things still were very undecided, so Ian was just working with his own assumptions until SEGA just decided Chronicle wouldn't be canon because it's just not worth the effort.
 
Sparkive said:
Also, I could be wrong, but wasn't Chronicles the one that had irreparable changes in Sonic's world and had to be positioned as the first part of the chronological end or something like that? (It's not like Sega wouldn't be able to ignore that and put it at some random point without dealing with the game's cliffhanger like it happened with Sonic 4)
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Yeah between the game starting with "Eggman finally been beaten for good" with Sonic going solo during a time skip (implied to be years iirc) only for the game to end with an "Eggman wins" cliffhanger after another timeskip (due to time working differently in the Twilight Cage), it's pretty obvious this was ment to be an endgame of sorts.

Personally I believe Chronicles was going to be a transition series that connects the end of Sonic's timeline with the beginning of Silver's but I digress.
 
Lowkey I think I have a small case of Sonic Generations brainrot because I thought of a "what if Sonic Generations had an Undertale DLC" if that makes sense lmfao, basically it'd be the Time Eater erasing space and time in the Undertale universe for some reason and now Frisk, and soon Sonic who came across that area of White Space, has to restore space-time there. Frisk would have to bring back their friends and family via. entering challenging versions of their past fights to restore them with Sonic running through parts of the Underground which are now structured like Sonic zones to restore those

Meanwhile uhhh idk what Classic Sonic, Tails, and Classic Tails are doing during this
 
Just out of curiosity because I know people that have tried arguing for it, but why haven't you guys shot for BDE Type 3 White Space? It's currently BDE Type 1, so are there reasons why it has not been argued or is it planned to arrive later?
 
HenshinIntervention said:
Just out of curiosity because I know people that have tried arguing for it, but why haven't you guys shot for BDE Type 3 White Space? It's currently BDE Type 1, so are there reasons why it has not been argued or is it planned to arrive later?
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We would have to meet the following qualifications:
  • Keep in mind that Type 3 Beyond-Dimensional Existence is not simply a combination of a non-dimensional state of existence and greater raw power than all dimensional structures in a cosmology – though that is a necessary condition to qualify for it, it is not a sufficient one. Instead, the non-dimensional state of existence must be the direct cause of the character/realm's superiority over dimensions. A simple example being a realm that is stated to lack space, time and physicality entirely, but is nonetheless shown as being "vaster" than physical reality in some way. Common imagery of this includes the universe as a small object encompassed in a wider backdrop.
  • A void of nothingness is not necessarily 1-A; it is only 1-A if it encompasses or is vaster than reality in a qualitative manner. For example, imagine a void so distinct from reality that it lacks space-time, not because it’s simply empty, but because it is beyond dimensionality and space-time itself. In comparison, the reality we know would be even lesser than a drop of water in an ocean. In a context like this, the void possesses qualitative superiority, which is why it's referred to as a void of nothingness. no composition from our reality holds significance or meaning within it.
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We seem to come somewhat close in certain regards, but ultimately fail when it comes to needing to provide evidence for qualitative superiority.

So basically what Alexander said., We would need more statements afaik.
 
ShakeResounding said:
We seem to come somewhat close in certain regards, but ultimately fail when it comes to needing to provide evidence for qualitative superiority.

So basically what Alexander said., We would need more statements afaik.
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Makes sense, but it looks to me like you're not that far off from a decent argument
 
ShakeResounding said:
We would have to meet the following qualifications:

We seem to come somewhat close in certain regards, but ultimately fail when it comes to needing to provide evidence for qualitative superiority.

So basically what Alexander said., We would need more statements afaik.
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What about BDE2?
 
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