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Anya fights the genius of the whiteroom

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Vzearr

Vapour
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I believe the first fight these guys had should have ended in Kiyotaka's victory. I wasn't really debating in that thread so here's a retrial.​


a8a1dcb4b8f84e17259e102bd6ead5d7903ad418.jpg


Anya forger

Vs

Kiyotaka Ayanokouji
(Key:- Ayanokouji Kiyotaka (Current - 17 Years old)

SBA
Speed Equalised
 
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WE'RE HAVING A RETRIAL.

Anya can read minds, she will know exactly what Ayano's plan is and will just counter that. She's also stronger in AP & has been in dangerous situations before. I'm not super knowledgable on Spy x Family, but going off of just the profile it seems like she could kill Ayano pretty quickly before stamina becomes an issue. She sees exactly what Ayanokoji plans to do & counters it, boom, win for Anya
Ayano's plan would change as soon as she tries to counter it. This makes no sense, if Ayanokouji threw a punch and Ayna predicted it with a parry and attempt to punch back she wouldn't have seen the future as to how Ayanokouji would change and react to that punch. So no, I do not believe her reading minds will win her the battle.

The rest of the thread consisted of jokes and mumbo jumbo.
 
So what part of this is actually valid for a rematch?
  • Remaking an existing match listed on a profile should generally be avoided, but a "rematch" may be acceptable under certain conditions.
    • Acceptable conditions include:
      • Character information fundamental to the debate has changed due to a CRT.
      • An important piece of information or context was missed entirely or excluded from the debate.
      • A core argument of the previous debate is deemed invalid for some reason.
      • A new argument which is fundamentally different from anything previously stated is brought up.
      • There is a possibility for new conditions for the fight which are significantly different and could make for a valid new conclusion.
    • In some cases, even without a core or fundamental change, multiple modest but relevant changes can stack up to justify the match being made again.
    • If a rematch is made because the previous match is deemed invalid for a logical reason, then the result of the rematch should replace the previous match on the profile. However, if both matches are valid but different (such as different conditions or keys), then they may both be listed with the differences specified.
 
State your new arguments.
Anya got higher ap, mind reading she's basically 2 step ahead, we have gone through same thing over and over for 5pages in previous thread.
 
State your new arguments.
Anya got higher ap, mind reading she's basically 2 step ahead, we have gone through same thing over and over for 5pages in previous thread.

Higher AP doesn't do much when you blatantly get outskilled. I also already told you why she's not actually two steps ahead, right here:
Ayano's plan would change as soon as she tries to counter it. This makes no sense, if Ayanokouji threw a punch and Ayna predicted it with a parry and attempt to punch back she wouldn't have seen the future as to how Ayanokouji would change and react to that punch. So no, I do not believe her reading minds will win her the battle.
 
I provided you an argument that debunks the entire premise as to why she could win.
"I believe" is not an argument that can stack up 20 votes...


Also, to make things worse, you already made this damn argument before.
That's not a reason why she should win, Ayano can predict all of her attacks, even if she reads his mind and changes her attacks position to match what he's planning to do, he would just switch up what he's planning to do in relation to what she plans to do, lets also not forget this wouldn't last long due to Anya's low stamina, and Ayanokouji's stamina advantage.

The new argument really is not looking that different
Ayano's plan would change as soon as she tries to counter it. This makes no sense, if Ayanokouji threw a punch and Ayna predicted it with a parry and attempt to punch back she wouldn't have seen the future as to how Ayanokouji would change and react to that punch. So no, I do not believe her reading minds will win her the battle.
 
"I believe" is not an argument that can stack up 20 votes...


Also, to make things worse, you already made this damn argument before.


The new argument really is not looking that different
Oops, didn't notice that. I still think it'd be good to have a re trial and I didn't full argue my point. Which I think holds substantial value to the results.
 
So you basically doesn't have any new arguments but wants to argue on your existing ones cuz you lost your chance in previous thread. Did i understand it correctly?
 
Oops, didn't notice that. I still think it'd be good to have a re trial and I didn't full argue my point. Which I think holds substantial value to the results.
Look, what I am asking for is to have the match deleted from the profile before remaking it.

This is to make sure the "previous result" is actually invalid for a decent reason, instead of just wasting everyones time and votes.
 
Look, what I am asking for is to have the match deleted from the profile before remaking it.

This is to make sure the "previous result" is actually invalid for a decent reason, instead of just wasting everyones time and votes.
It'd be a waste of my time proving it to staff and having them delete it only to remake it again.

I can do that, if I'm in the wrong then my sincerest apologies.
 
Koji can dodge attacks from point blank distances against people who were comparable to him in his supressed state, pretty sure he can dodge anya with equal speed
 
The skill difference is unbelievably comically stupid. But how does Ayanokoji win seeing the AP/Dura difference? Plus this match is stupid ash, Ayanokoji doesn't have prior knowledge that his opponent can read his mind so he'll literally get caught off guard and end up getting touched once. It doesn't matter how skilled he is, he's going up against someone who can directly read his thoughts through a supernatural ability, not predicting his next moves. Given speed is equalized, Ayna ironically just counters bro.
 
The skill difference is unbelievably comically stupid. But how does Ayanokoji win seeing the AP/Dura difference? Plus this match is stupid ash, Ayanokoji doesn't have prior knowledge that his opponent can read his mind so he'll literally get caught off guard and end up getting touched once. It doesn't matter how skilled he is, he's going up against someone who can directly read his thoughts through a supernatural ability, not predicting his next moves. Given speed is equalized, Ayna ironically just counters bro.
How is she hitting him with speed equal when he can dodge point blank strikes which come from blind spots?

Also stamina wise Koji massacres, he will be able to tank her hits (if she does indeed manage to hit which i doubt)
 
We already went over this in the last thread. I have requested this to be closed, since no new arguments have been presented.
 
Ok, so I don't think there's much to talk about here (but I will still talk ALOT).

Exploring Anya's wincons:
  • Can basically heavily injure him with a single hit.
  • Can read Kiyotaka's mind (telepathic abilities).

All the other wincons go to Kiyotaka's side.

Now, to see the first wincon Anya has, of being able to heavily injure him with a single attack, it's just practically impossible for her to even hit him.
  • Both have same speeds, so Anya's combat attacks would land at the same speed as the ability of Kiyotaka to react to them. So, Kiyotaka will be able to dodge every attack she tried to land.
  • Let's say that Kiyotaka comes under the section like normal humans where he would fail to dodge attacks from people of his speed normally. Even then, he has Analytical Prediction, to the point where Anya can't do crap against him. He scales to direct upper limits reading, where he can easily read someone's upper limits and directly understand sequences of their attacks, and heavily upscales Ichika, a character who can read a series of moves from another character and can develop herself to the point where even newer movesets are ineffective against her. Even if not this, even low level characters like Suzune can analyze micromovements and predict next attacks.

So, FRANKLY, Anya cannot touch Kiyotaka in the slightest.

Now, Anya has one advantage, through which she wouldn't be directly hit very soon, and that is, her telepathic abilities, which are her biggest wincon here, abysmally greater than the wincon her AP/Durability superiority provides.
  • However, this advantage has a very short shortcoming, and that is her telepathic overwhelming, where anything greater than her own brain processing power proves to be heavy information for her to the point where she basically gets blank. Now, a character like Kiyotaka, someone who can add multiple four-digit numbers flashed within less than split seconds (Y1V11), can completely deduce Housen's plan in the timeframe when he's going to attack (Y2V1), can create attack tactics where even his 1% attack thoughts' tactical ability can actually still give him a chance at winning, despite having the rest of the 99% being read by his opponent. So, it's obvious, Anya is not going to be easily able to read Kiyotaka's thoughts, that's just a direct counter which Kiyotaka has to Anya's telepathy.
  • Still, let's assume that telepathic overwhelming doesn't function and Anya still happens to be able to dodge every attack Kiyotaka does at her, but then, the problem which arises is that Anya has a significant stamina disadvantage (Average vs Superhuman). Kiyotaka in Y2V3 defeated a character with high athletic stamina (Nanase) by simply just dodging her attacks and not even attacking her once. Kiyotaka will simply outlast Anya. She can't attack him due to his highly trained reflexes and Analytical Prediction, and let's say that even he doesn't have chances at attacking her, even then, he would simply outlast her, upon his shear stamina.
  • Plus, Anya's mental stamina would also make her give up, probably even before she physically would. Anya is simply a kid, a kid who finds it difficult to continuously concentrate in her academics for some time, and has a very low span for concentration, would give up shortly, even if she can still keep up with his thinking, her mental stamina would heavily drain in a matter of moments.

Anya also has a range disadvantage. While Kiyotaka in V0 did talk about trying to use his smaller body to his advantage, and it's possible, Anya can't do it, because she doesn't possess the Battle Intelligence of that level.

he'll literally get caught off guard and end up getting touched once.
This is just false on many levels.

Kiyotaka doesn't drop his guard even in situations with normal nature.

He didn't drop his guard against Ryuuen (Y1V7) and Nanase (Y2V3), despite both of them having a crazy disadvantage in their abilities to the point where Kiyotaka massively upscaled characters who highly upscaled them.

Kiyotaka was trained to never drop his guard; in simulations, he was attacked with bullets from blindspots in seemingly normal conditions, his food was poisoned many times and he was constantly attacked numerous times (Y2V12.5). There's no way he will drop his guard in a clear combat battle.
image.png


And Kiyotaka himself defeated numerous adults in his childhood itself, he deeply understands and knows that even a kid is not to be undestimated.

OVERALL:
This match is a stomp in Kiyotaka's favor, and giving Anya an AP advantage and telepathy wouldn't significantly overturn that as people seemed to believe earlier in the thread before.
 
We already went over this in the last thread. I have requested this to be closed, since no new arguments have been presented.
Y2V12.5 wasn't even analyzed when the past thread happened. A volume which provided evidence to him not easily losing his guard, which was basically something which everyone believed in the past thread (though I would say that V0 also has plenty of evidence which say otherwise as well).
 
Just being curious, I'm surprised his AD isn't coming up in this conversation.
As a matter of fact it was countered already in previous one
Here 👇
His AD is about learning martial arts and knowledge much faster, in other words, he can easily improve the stuff that requires knowledge much faster, It doesn't allow him to randomly become "stronger".
 
Mental Fatigue + Low stamina + Low LS + Barely fighting knowledge + Low attention span (or concentration) + Almost non existent BIQ

FRA, i will vote Koji

There's nothing Anya can do to counter Koji mainly because of stamina, mental fatigue, non existent multi tasking ability and low attention span
 
ignoring the yap session above me, if Anya's win came from just being able to read minds the the op is very much justified in remaking the match. Simply being able to read his mind doesn't mean she counters everything he can do. It's similar to the debate on Precognition vs Analytical Prediction. Combat wise and in a vacuum, neither is better than the other. It comes down to the decisions both users make and any other abilities in their repertoire that can give them an advantage, simple luck.

In the first place, a person fighting doesn't have to think about literally everything they'll do, to make matters worse, Anya just has telepathy not even precognition nor analytical prediction. Even if she reads his mind, she lacks the skill to keep up not to mention he has analytical prediction and would read whatever move Anya makes based on her telepathy.

This isn't a match, Ayanokouji skill stomps.
 
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I already argued in favor of Koji in the original thread so I'll kinda repeat my past argument here too. Even if Anya has a better level of precog, there is simply no way she can land a hit on Koji considering the combat skill difference. Koji can figure out that Anya has much more AP than him with his info analysis and just work on dodging all her attacks. She would tire herself out much faster than Ayanokouji due to stamina difference. After Anya gets tired enough, Koji can just move in and easily choke her out with his massive Lifting Strength advantage.
 
Just being curious, I'm surprised his AD isn't coming up in this conversation.
Kiyotaka's AD doesn't really come up to be a wincon in a single round matchup to death. His AD is practically not the thing to talk about here, especially when what facilitates his AD is his adaptability, but so, his adaptability would surely come to his huge advantage in this basically a stomp matchup.
Precognition vs Analytical Prediction
Precognition is much better than mind reading.

Precognition would also allow a character to know exact times of attacks happening, and in place, be able to make actual counters.
Mind reading is highly bound by a character's brain processing speed too, which for Anya, is extremely poor, to the point where she ever suffers from telepathic overwhelming and also has a low amount of mental stamina than required to actually go against a character of Kiyotaka's caliber.
So basically same exact matchup as last time and Anya still wins
Elaborate on how? The last thread assumed that Kiyotaka was a careless fighter and would drop his guard against Anya simply because she's a little girl, when in fact, he's trained to have his guard on 24/7 and he himself used to solo adults as a kid and his verse doesn't really base itself upon the thinking that kids cannot fight back adults, he himself did it.

Anya simply has no ways of utilizing her AP advantage due to her high inability to even attack him, and her mind reading mostly does her worse than it does her good as far as I see this.
 
Even if Anya has a better level of precog, there is simply no way she can land a hit on Koji considering the combat skill difference. Koji can figure out that Anya has much more AP than him with his info analysis and just work on dodging all her attacks. She would tire herself out much faster than Ayanokouji due to stamina difference. After Anya gets tired enough, Koji can just move in and easily choke her out with his massive Lifting Strength advantage.
Also to add to this, Ayanokouji's Anpr works by him considering every possibility in his head and planning for each of them. If Anya tries to read his mind, it would even worse for her since she would simply be overwhelmed by Koji's mind lol.
 
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