Super Saiyan forms Upgrade (Dragon Ball Toei)

[RedReaper616]

Bump.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP seems reasonable to me.

 

[RedReaper616]

Bump

Question for thou. Which version of the multiplier do you find more reasonable?

The one I ended up with or the revised one? (I ask because you didn't really put in any input during the prior argument/discussion.)

 

[StarShooter80]

The one I ended up with or the revised one? (I ask because you didn't really put in any input during the prior argument/discussion.)

I feel like I should just ditch the revised SSJ4 multiplier, i never expected it to start an argument like this and the goal of the thread was just to implement the grade 3 multiplier into it. For now I’ll just revert it to the og, I’m still confused on the back and fourth

 

[AwkguyDB]

Bump

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

This CRT dead in the dumps bro

 

[StarShooter80]

This CRT dead in the dumps bro

Not if we keep tryin

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Not if we keep tryin

I passed 4 CRTs in the span of this CRTs lifetime bro

 

[StarShooter80]

I passed 4 CRTs in the span of this CRTs lifetime bro

NOT IF WE KEEP TRYIN

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I passed 4 CRTs in the span of this CRTs lifetime bro

 

[AwkguyDB]

BUMP

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I had literally just remembered a few minutes ago that Chōzenshū 4 confirms that the Super Kaio-ken is a combination of Kaio-ken and Second Grade Super Saiyan—even clarifying that after powering up to Second Grade, he unleashed even more of his abilities—which strongly suggests that Second Grade is superior in combat ability to Fourth Grade.

 

[Shar122]

Bump

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Looks simple enough.

 

[Ultimuru]

This thread itself should get NEP...


Anyway, I agree with OP.

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

shit's wild

 

[Nami_Kami]

El Manga Legendario is not a valid source. On the back it says EML has the rights to translate guides by Shueisha, not to make up new information. The x10 statement is something not found anywhere in any guide provided by Shueisha, as far as I'm aware.

Even in the Toeiverse MSSJ GT Goku is said to be only x50 base. Unless you want to argue that for some reason GT Goku doesn't have the mastered SSJ anymore.

 

[StarShooter80]

El Manga Legendario is not a valid source. On the back it says EML has the rights to translate guides by Shueisha, not to make up new information. The x10 statement is something not found anywhere in any guide provided by Shueisha, as far as I'm aware.

The ten times statement is in every translation of the legendary manga it’s not something made up in the ELM version

Even in the Toeiverse MSSJ GT Goku is said to be only x50 base. Unless you want to argue that for some reason GT Goku doesn't have the mastered SSJ anymore.

It’s talking about Grade 1 hence why it’s referring to the battle against Frieza, only in the last sentence does it talk about different types like Grade 2 and 3

 

[Nami_Kami]

The ten times statement is in every translation of the legendary manga it’s not something made up in the ELM version

All of the languages of TLM only have translation rights. Besides If we are using manga guides, I think this one ( SEG ) saying SSJ2 is x2 specifically the x50 SSJ is more reliable.

It’s talking about Grade 1 hence why it’s referring to the battle against Frieza, only in the last sentence does it talk about different types like Grade 2 and 3

Yeah but the guide also says that's the form GT Goku used, along with everyone else in GT.

 

[StarShooter80]

All of the languages of TLM only have translation rights.

What about them only having translation rights? That doesn’t dismiss them from being used

Besides If we are using manga guides, I think this one ( SEG ) saying SSJ2 is x2 specifically the x50 SSJ is more reliable.

It doesn’t directly say it’s 2x the 50x Grade 1 version, just that it’s 2x Super Saiyan, which both Grade 1 and 4 are referred to as

Yeah but the guide also says that's the form GT Goku used, along with everyone else in GT.

Again it’s not just referring to a specific version of SSJ1 the whole time, it first talks about Grade one, then mentions the other grades. To say the version of SSJ the GT cast use is Grade 1 is just wrong

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Was the whole Super Kaioken being Kaioken + Grade 2 ever addressed?

 

[Nami_Kami]

What about them only having translation rights? That doesn’t dismiss them from being used

As far as I am aware, nowhere is it ever said that Grade 3 is x10 in any guide or magazine by Shueisha. I believe that this'd make the X10 statement from TLM something they made up and wrote themselves, which their license does not extend to, not something they translated from a Shueisha guide.

Again it’s not just referring to a specific version of SSJ1 the whole time, it first talks about Grade one, then mentions the other grades. To say the version of SSJ the GT cast use is Grade 1 is just wrong

The guide literally says that this is the exact form that GT Goku uses. Right above, it says it will list the forms used by the GT cast. Right in the sub-section of the SSJ1 category, which they explicitly say is x50, they say this is the form GT Goku used vs Rildo, Baby and others. They also list Vegeta and Gohan. So unless GT Goku uses G1, which I believe isn't the case, I think the description accounts for Grade 4 too.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

As far as I am aware, nowhere is it ever said that Grade 3 is x10 in any guide or magazine by Shueisha. I believe that this'd make the X10 statement from TLM something they made up and wrote themselves, which their license does not extend to, not something they translated from a Shueisha guide.

Occam's razor; if the official publishing and translation rights license was granted by Shueisha, the license holders then translated and published "Original Text and Design ... created ... by Shueisha", and the ten-times statement appears in all known versions of the infobooks (including the original French translations), then the statement is legit. If their license "does not extend to" the ten-times statement, why can they include the statement in their official translations? They reportedly cannot legally "make up" statements, but they also "make up" statements without any repercussion?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Honestly, we wouldn't have these kinds of problems if we didn't insist on using manga-based guidebooks in revising TV anime-based profiles.

 

[StarShooter80]

As far as I am aware, nowhere is it ever said that Grade 3 is x10 in any guide or magazine by Shueisha. I believe that this'd make the X10 statement from TLM something they made up and wrote themselves, which their license does not extend to, not something they translated from a Shueisha guide.

That’s just legitimately false, ELM is just the translation of the original text of TLM with all other translations having the same statement, it’s consistent and there’s no reason to assume otherwise or that all of these translations decided to add BS or of the sort.

The guide literally says that this is the exact form that GT Goku uses. Right above, it says it will list the forms used by the GT cast. Right in the sub-section of the SSJ1 category, which they explicitly say is x50, they say this is the form GT Goku used vs Rildo, Baby and others. They also list Vegeta and Gohan. So unless GT Goku uses G1, which I believe isn't the case, I think the description accounts for Grade 4 too.

Again it doesn’t, it describes the forms first appearance in Grade 1, then the 50x multiplier, afterwards the other types, and in a separate paragraph the appearances the form makes throughout GT.

 

[Overvoid69]

7 Whole months FOLK

 

[StarShooter80]

7 Whole months FOLK

Don't bump threads that have been inactive for 3 months, I'll ask for this to be locked

 

[Just a Random Butler]

Closing this.