if you think standards sucks good for you, but wiki will run based on standardsLiterally just read what I said about this lmao
Question about layered hax limit
For the sake of someone off site I wanted to ask these questions regarding layered hax Can a character with layered 3D hax ever outhax someone with baseline 4D hax/resistances? Or do layers =/= dimensional difference? As far as I am aware, a character can have an infinite amount of layered hax...vsbattles.com
You know why I made Teyvat being a planet-sized only as the main point of this CRT, basically? It's because other than this, the justification for CM1 through True Will and BDE1 refers to them as an "Universe" even if Teyvat is literally established as a planet.
This is literally the entire reason, but you guys just misinterpret what I said everytime even when you guys don't even understand how all this gets accepted and the main reason behind them all.. Let's be honest for a second, we know all this wouldn't pass if it wasn't for Teyvat being refered as "Universe" even if it's actually planet-sized only, that's why THIS matters.
Dude what are you even saying
That's in the case of Leyline being actual concept. Despite being called "conceptual network", all I can see from Leyline is just Information Manipulation at best. For a concept to qualify, doesn't said concept need to be associated with a certain object?
Yeah, this is obvious because they only need to govern all parts of reality that they govern
That being said though, it must pertain for them to be the fundamental building block of a reality like they participate in serving as the building block of reality/what the reality is composed of. Obviously you don't have to be universal, but you have to be the building block of reality. Not just the building block of Teyvat, Teyvat doesn't pertain to reality since Teyvat is only a planet inside a solar system inside the Universe (Abyss). CM2 here is as simple as IM2 in which it must be the fundamental building block of reality, like reality itself is composed of them. Size doesn't matter, again, this is obvious except if you're just trying to strawman
Then, it's about whether we consider Teyvat as a seperate reality from the Universe or not. Me personally consider Teyvat as a seperate reality since the inner working mechanism are brought forth by the four shades and Heavenly Principles. Not to mention Teyvat has its own laws. Leylines being able to modify information of entire planet without affecting the rest, etcc.......Even something as simple as "weight" was created by Heavenly Principles. But is it conceptual manipulation for leyline? I'm not sure of this part since it's just dubbed as "conceptual network" without showing any object associating with its concept.
Well, Phanes separated Teyvat from the Universe back in Before Sun & Moon, hence the "False Sky" protecting Teyvat. So..
You think it's not a type 2 concept because it only supports the planet Teyvat, the leyline supporting the reality of Teyvat is already classified as a type 2 concept, not a type 3, type 3 is a specific concept, not supporting reality, so what's the problem? This is clearly a type 2 concept
Man
bro leyline is explained as a concept network not an information network haha
Does one off statement about "concept network" enough to grant CM? Then, what type of objects are associated to this so called "concept network"? Looking from the working mechanism of Leylines, it's more of Information Manipulation than Conceptual manipulation.
of course, because changing the leyline would change the whole world
Not actually though. It only changes the information. It's explained by Mage N after wanderer removed himself from Irminsul effectively removing his past.
It's clear that it's information manipulation rather than conceptual manipulation. Mind showing instances where it actually changes the world explictly instead of name dropping "world changing"?
will get both, because leylines are expressed as a concept network and contain information
This is from conceptual manipulation page. For leyline to be qualified as a concept, you need to prove which object is linked with Leyline as a concept and how changing leyline can change every objects linked to it
Okay but that still doesn't disprove the entire thread given there's one staff agreeing with the downgrade, even if it was for a completely different reason which was there's simply no concept being manipulated at all. Plus, the independence being flawed, a quick glance at the current state of the Elemental Manipulation page and you'd know they were wanked so much to the point they were refered as an "Universe" or universal even if we all knew that's wrong
All concept types, fundamentally speaking, working in the same way. The difference is the scope they governs, personal concept govern over individual stuff, universal concept govern all stuffs across the entire reality. Both type 2 and 1 are universal concepts, difference is type 2 dependent on the stuffs they govern while type 1 is independent
The way Type 2 and Type 1 concepts work are almost definitely not the same. They might share some similarity in their scope but that’s about where that similarity ends.
Was this looked at by Translation Helpers?
Leylines cannot change anything physically since it can do is limited to information. Even if you changed the history via Irminsul, the events that already happened will happen one way or another depending on how you remember it.
So i don't understand why CM2 is getting removed from Ley Lines Manipulation, as it is stated in the Original Text that Ley Lines are Conceptual Network, therefore, Manipulating the Ley Lines would also get Conceptual Manipulation.
I think some ppl already said it doesn't need to be a literal universe in size before.
CM2 is removed because there's simply no concept being altered, it's not correlated with Teyvat being planetary or not tbh. Which is why I said it's similar to what Firestorm808 has said, those concepts being manipulated ≠ those concepts being altered
Yes, I really don't understand why he holds on to that.
I literally said on the summarization that CM2 there is removed for similar reasons as CM1: Meaning, it's because there's no concepts being altered — Firestorm808 quoted it already. Teyvat being universal/planetary has no correlations whatsoever with Ley Lines being CM2 if you don't get it. Cause I already gave up on that type of argument the moment Dereck explained it, I think this is blatant on the first page
It doesn't mean it cannot have CM2, its basically nobody has ever change any concept using the Ley Lines.
Reweaving the leyline doesn't mean altering those concept, they only manipulated it. If you alter a concept, then leyline as a "concept" must be altered to something else that the world would fit into that description. Take an apple for example, you altered the concept of apple to a banana. Hence, the world fits into the description that an apple simply doesn't exist. Because it's altered as "banana". This is whats outlined on the page
