Arkansalter2
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It's a pocket dimension in the middle of where-the-f***-am-I-at?
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Muzan Kibutsuji (King of Demons) Vs Ken Kaneki (King of Ghouls) (Demon Slayer Vs Tokyo Ghoul) [14-4-3]
- Thread starter CastoriceTheFifth
- Start date
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Kakuja gives a power boost to the oneshot of the one who was suppressing him before, not RE gives him the ability to raise to 7-A. Their necks just won't survive it.
Arkansalter2
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So if he gets left in the pocket dimension we call a Castle, then what?
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He simply finds Nakime and kills her. He has far more tools and chances than the Hashira, who managed to do the job.
Arkansalter2
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Good luck finding her in a seemingly limitless structure which can literally shift at any time that Nakime wants.
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bruh
someone please summarize both sides cuz I ain't reading 7 pages
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Yes, of course, because this didn't happen in the manga
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Muzan has BFR, numerical advantage and Douma's cryokinesis.
Kaneki has a kakuja with speed and AP amp, RE and AD and a shockwave that will destroy a demon in one hit
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Basically, this is the last match, but Muzan has 12 Moons.
Kaneki, in turn, knows about the regeneration of demons, so he uses an area attack that is guaranteed to kill them.
Also if he takes damage from Kizuki and doesn't die, he will become too strong and stop taking damage.
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It’s in Douma’s profile
Arkansalter2
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Plot.
She can control the entire fortress at will and just teleport Kaneki away if Kaneki ever does get close.
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The limitations of her abilities and her character. Of course, her potential is much greater, but she has not revealed it.
Arkansalter2
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She can detect where Kaneki is at all times and killing intent. Soo... good luck.
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I’m busy doing something but for the muzan side atleast he has
Daki: BFR Sleep Hax
Gyokko: transmutation and fish spam
Enmu: Clones and Sleep Hax
Douma: 6 clones and -196c BDA ice
Nakime: BFR and IF control
Muzan: BFR and IF Control
This is his if control justification now
- Spatial Manipulation& BFR (By controlling Nakime remotely, he can freely control the entire Infinity Fortress Dimension and trap others into it. Manipulated the Infinity Fortress in order for Tanjiro to fall to his death and blocked him off. Pushed Sanemi and Obanai out of the Infinity Fortress)
- Teleportation (By controlling Nakime remotely, he can teleport himself or Demons into, across, or teleport them outside of the Infinity Fortress)
- Portal Creation (By controlling Nakime remotely, he can summon portals in various different form such as a tatami sliding door that can spawn in any direction or giant gateways)
- Gravity Manipulation (By controlling Nakime remotely, he can manipulate the gravity for individual beings inside of the Infinity Fortress)
- Limited Telekinesis (By controlling Nakime remotely, he can make objects in the Infinity Fortress hover in mid-air)
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So, uhhh.... I'll start this slow cuz it's a ton
Muzan and Nakime are taken out the same way the last thread went (Kaneki has much better options than the Hashira to evade said BFR, can nuke the place if left alone for too long or will just find Nakime the same way Mitsure and Obanai did and then just kill her) while Muzan is just a matter of bio-hax vs Kaneki's resistances or if Kaneki has adapted/gone Kakuja he just nukes Muzan.
Muzan starts with every moon or is he alone? That is what determines this match after all.
Muzan and Nakime are taken out the same way the last thread went (Kaneki has much better options than the Hashira to evade said BFR, can nuke the place if left alone for too long or will just find Nakime the same way Mitsure and Obanai did and then just kill her) while Muzan is just a matter of bio-hax vs Kaneki's resistances or if Kaneki has adapted/gone Kakuja he just nukes Muzan.
Muzan starts with every moon or is he alone? That is what determines this match after all.
Catbowtie
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Muzan For Reasons Above.
I will say, Muzan's first move is to use Nakime to BFR Kaneki to Infinity Castle.
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yeah, yeah, we went over that last time, my question is if every upper moon is with Muzan the moment the match starts or is it inside the castle waiting for him?
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He starts off alone and then proceeds to summon more and more kizuki members to his position to help fight Kaneki. In this case, Kaneki is going to piss off muzan quickly so its gonna be fast
Also is every single Muzan Vs Kaneki match destined to being over 10 pages of yap every single time
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Also after the IF justifications changes happened, an omni direction portal bfr is possible
Catbowtie
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This is because Nakime's intent was to help the demon Obanai and Sanemi are chasing after to escape. In a situation where she wants to trap someone, she can just as easily manipulate the space around Kaneki to trap him. She did so with Muzan.
For context, Muzan is completely immobile due to a special ability preventing movement. At 3:13, we see Muzan and Tamayo (the girl) on a platform. This means Nakime had warped the space where Muzan was to transport him to the Infinity Castle.
Kaneki's Shockwave didn't do this, actually. Right after, it was perfectly fine.
Kaneki fell to the ground.
I do not see the point in determining whether or not Kanao has resistance Doma's ice, because Kaneki himself does not have resistance to Ice. It is a moot point.
Avoiding the Infinity Castle is not possible for reasons I have laid out earlier (Infinity Castle will warp space around Kaneki to transport him inside of it)
(I assume you mean "Kaigaku") Kaigaku has ESP to sense Kaneki is coming from him, and he is not easy to kill. If Kaneki goes for Lower Moons like Enmu, he will be put to sleep and then quickly killed by the rest of the Kizuki. This is without mentioning Nakime can bail any of the Lower Moons out by teleporting them away from Kaneki.
Muzan's Shockwave didn't actually hit the demon slayers. It was the manifested Lightning/Nerve attack.
That is an anti-feat for the Dragon, not a feat for the shockwave. Natural phenomenon, like lightning and sound, are always assumed to be moving within their regular travel speeds. If a character could dodge lightning, yet gets hit by sound attack, it wouldn't be reasonable to say the sound attack is "MHS+" In the same vain, a Mach 2 shockwave traveling faster than a MHS+ character could dodge is a glaring shortcoming of that character, is it not?
Can you provide scans for this?
Yes, Gyokko can create pots out of nowhere.
You are misunderstanding how Hantengu works. Hantengu's main body will be away from the battle, while Zohakuten will be at the battle's location. Zohakuten is impossible to kill without destroying Hantengu's main body. Even if Zohakuten is obliterated, he will regenerate from the main body.
How so? It is very likely Doma wouldn't get into range, and use 6 mikos to freeze Kaneki to death from a distance. This is also ignoring how, if like you've proposed (which is, Kaneki never gets trapped in the Infinity Castle), Nakime can simply teleport the Kizuki into the Infinity Castle before the Shockwave can kill them.
Yes. We both agree on that point.
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The hashiras found Muzan and Nakime in an never ending shifting massive fortress because the Ubuyashiki family sent dozens upon dozens of crows with BDA enhanced senses that can see anything invisible and had possibly hundreds of demon slayer hunters all with extrasensory perception trying to track both of them down. It took over 5 hours with that much man power to find them.
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Btw I proposed Kanao being capable of resisting -196 Ice BDA in a CRT and it got flat out rejected so no Kaneki cant resist it either
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It seems like Muzan has quite a good list of win-cons. I personally think unequalizing speed would be fair game with how many insta-win options he has thanks to the updates to his page. But I think it's pretty far in now so 
. I may vote later if the thread somehow doesn't get traction.
. I may vote later if the thread somehow doesn't get traction.
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We need Muzan to enter a 7-C tournament after that crazy ass buffIt seems like Muzan has quite a good list of win-cons. I personally think unequalizing speed would be fair game with how many insta-win options he has thanks to the updates to his page. But I think it's pretty far in now so
Also is it possible to find the value of Muzan's heat resistance. He also has that too from the buff now
- Resistance to Fire Manipulation (When Sanemi doused him in oil and set him ablaze, he was unaffected by the fire)
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Possible but not the first move, which will get Kaneki enough time to analyze the opponents abilities. Not really that useful unless every demon is alongside Muzan tho
I was asking because something similar happens in the manga. For context, the CCG sends their top investigators to deal with Goat (Kaneki's organization) while he is away, Kaneki has a bad feeling and rushes back to HQ. Here he finds Suzuya and Hanbee and after helping a friend of his run he immediately goes Kakuja as he knows Juuzou & Hanbee and how powerful they are.
In this case, he knows of Muzan personally and if there are others alongside him then he will use the Kakuja asap. From there on he just needs to nuke everyone and everything and he wins.
Nao, nao.Kaneki's Shockwave didn't do this, actually. Right after, it was perfectly fine.
Kaneki fell to the ground.
If you saw the manga then you know they took him to the air and there they formed a sort of cocoon in which they were devouring him, he goes Kakuja and nukes everything and when he falls all of that is completely gone.
I mean... The Hashira all were BFR'd by opening a door/trap below them which gives ample time to Kaneki to realize what's going on and maneuver around it for as long as possible.
IDK how canon the movie is nor do I really care but if the whole "omnidirectional BFR portal" is actually a thing then they can get Kaneki in there eventually but by the time that happens Kaneki has had enough time to play with Muzan or whoever is outside.
He is talking about the dragon tentacles
.
Now, I have 2 takes on how the fight goes and both depend on how many moons are with Muzan.
1) If Muzan starts alone then Kaneki will just go with his regular Kagune just how he did with Furuta, will likely evade some of the door BFR and annoy the hell out of Muzan. From that point either the "omnidirectional bfr portal" happens and Kaneki gets jumped by the 12 moons alongside Muzan and he gets haxed before he can nuke everything. Sleep hax is the main wincon as that just leaves Kaneki completely defenseless for the rest of haxes or the AP jumping if he hasn't outstated already.
2) Muzan brings the Moons asap which will prompt Kaneki to go Kakuja ending the fight in that instant with the shockwave nuke thing.
Realistically I have no ******* idea what Muzan will do (he never did this in the manga either lacking the moons or by getting jumped/surprised by the Hashiras forcing him to retreat) so it's a toin coss.
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Would this be like an Incon Vote. Btw the anime is actively worked on by Gotouge herself stated in multiple articles. The KNY profile also uses anime improvements such as the new flame breathing techniques showcased in the Mugen train movie or how the infinity fortress functions
Also Movie 1 possibly brings up some contentions against some of Kaneki’s counters against the infinity fortress so there’s that
Arkansalter2
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YOU KNOW WHO ELSE-
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Just Google the temp of gasoline fires. I imagine it's super accessible cuz anyone can create one even in their home (Obviously don't do that tho lol)
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John EBG Vs Muzan. Put up the fisticuffs
Arkansalter2
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Nah I don't feel like it.
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Ehhh, sure. I can see this going either way.
Manga >>>>>>> Movie tho :v
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Can we all appreciate how both Muzan and Kaneki mog the crap out of Sukuna
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Kaneki FRA
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Kaneki FRA due to kakuja, range and better BIQ. Having a demon army doesn't change the result when their durability is 8-B while Kaneki's AOE attacks are 7-C and above.
Arkansalter2
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YOU KNOW WHO EL-
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If the match changed to unequalize speed then Kaneki gets my vote
If speed is equalized then Muzan FRA
Sorry for late response I passed out
If speed is equalized then Muzan FRA
Sorry for late response I passed out
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- #278
Kaneki Vs Muzan matchups are always destined to get over 10 pages of yap
Catbowtie
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This only proves Kaneki's shockwave is dangerous at point blank range. How do you know that the range was 100 meters? Was Kaneki at 7-A at this moment? Or was he High 7-C? I would like to know.
In the two scans, you've posted characters killing nameless, comparatively fodder enemies. Shockwaves are an entirely DC-based ability. I fail to see how this strengthens your point, because these types of abilities can easily be deadly when demonstrated on vastly weaker opponents. I can just as easily post an example of Rui instantly shredding a demon slayer with his threads and calling them "deadly." That does not mean it is deadly to people who are comparable to him.
You've just admitted a Mach 2 Shockwave blitzed a MHS+ character. Again, natural phenomenon like sound cannot go faster than they already are. There is no such thing as "Speed of Light sound," like how there's no such thing as "MHS+ Shockwaves."
Nakime doesn't need to use portals. We see that with Muzan. I will repeat my previous justification here:
This is not happening due to the fact Kaneki's shockwave has never performed what you claimed previously it has. Therefore, my Inverse Square Law and Energy Dissipation argument is back into play. Doma will casually survive the shockwave due to the power behind said shockwave being drastically weakened the further it travels.
Did you concede that Gyokko can dodge Kaneki's Shockwave AOE? I wanted to make sure so I'm not assuming things.
Okay. I see. I went to the chapter this was in, and read the previous chapters and the next chapters. Kaneki did not gain a blitz amp here. Instead, what happens is that Kaneki was in a weaker form, and successfully unlocked his full power.
He was at 50% of his full power, and, in the scans Nik has posted, had regained his actual power.
Nakime's Portal Creation is her doors. Spatial Manipulation is something else entirely. It is exactly like the one in the Obanai and Sanemi imgur stuff. I will reproduce it again for your ease of access:
I've just explained that AP and DC are not connected. Do you have any empirical evidence proving me wrong? If not, I will dismiss your argument off of Hitchen's Razor ("what can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence")
I will say here, that it depends on the AP of shockwave. A simple High 7-C shockwave will not kill the Kizuki. The upmost maximum shockwave would do is fragment their bodies (this is assuming Kaneki does it at point blank range). This is not enough to kill them past High-Mid Regeneration. If the shockwave were to be 7-A, then I concede the Kizuki and Muzan will surely die if they are caught in the immediate origin point.
This is not a problem. Doma creates more.
Here, I will mention that after Kaneki uses his Shockwave, he will be rendered completely helpless.
Kaneki could not use his Kagune, and was completely incapable of out-running the Dragon's fluid. He nearly drowned because of it, and had to be saved by an ally to survive.
In addition to the shockwave not being spammable, how is Kaneki going to continue to fight after he uses the shockwave? It uses a significant portion of his energy, and it's not guaranteed to kill all of the Kizuki due to the various reasons I have laid out (Nakime teleporting away, Inverse Square Law and Energy Dissipation, and High-Mid Regeneration)
I assume you are referring to Kaneki's shockwave? If so, A High 7-C Shockwave will not kill Akaza as I've said before. But if it's a 7-A shockwave and Nakime, for some reason, is unable to rescue Akaza, then yes, I agree with this point.
This is missing the full context. Kaneki wasn't being overpowered.
What was happening is Kaneki's head wasn't in the game, and got beat up because of it, and then in the latter last scan you've posted, Kaneki finally resolves to use his strength to win. There was not an amplification Kaneki underwent to become more powerful. Kaneki simply decided to try.
The quantity of opponents here is bigger than the quantity of opponents Arima fought. Arima fought 3 opponents who are not inherently dangerous to him. Kaneki has to fight 7 enemies, most likely 12 (due to Doma's mikos), all with abilities that can easily kill him. This does not help your case.
When the attacks in question are effectively instant loss scenarios (Sleep Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Water Manipulation), it's extremely hard to say that Kaneki could reactively evolve before being killed. Has Kaneki shown to be able rapidly evolve within seconds of getting hurt? Regardless, he needs time to grow in strength, and the Kizuki will simply not allow that due to the fact most abilities they will use will quickly win them the battle.
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Btw Enmu's sleep hax doesnt have a travel speed. All Kaneki has to do is look at Enmu’s eyes that has the word Dream for it to activate. (If Enmu actually pulls this off)
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