(Accepted) Revival of the Strongest Magical Girl #1 | Endless Hell of Tetrahedra

[ExcelsisBerny]

Introduction​

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Heya. This is the first part of my revision series on the megucas verse.

A bit of context: this topic has already been discussed twice; however, as if under a curse, the thread always ends up dying and we never reach a definitive conclusion.

This time I will try to present the refined argument hoping that we can finally reach a clear conclusion on the scaling of these scans.

Preliminary Information​

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As already established in the previous threads, the argument for High 1-B PMMM comes from the labyrinth of tetrahedra present in the light novel «Null Magical Girl» (scans of the full scene)

For quick context:

In the story Kosane Kiriha (the protagonist) receives a letter sent by her sister Eruna from the epicenter of destiny. It serves as a «ticket» to something called «Time Railroad», with «ticket» in this context simply being the means by which one can access that plane of existence.

He pulls something white out of my wound. I grab it and study

it carefully. It really is a letter, no matter how you look at it. A letter neatly enclosed in a stamped envelope, just like the ones postal workers deliver every morning. Is it a letter from whoever stole my brain?

Perplexed by this oddity, I finally read the writing on the envelope.

"Dear big sister,

From your sister Eruna"

I feel chills run through my body. I am helplessly scared. Eruna should've died 24 years ago. The echo of her, my imaginary friend, disappeared too, ten years ago. After all this time, why has she appeared before me again?

With trembling hands, I open the envelope and take out the letter inside. The letter is written on notebook paper that has a strange, dotted line

In decorative letters, there is a message:

"Big sister, long time no see. It's been 24 years in your time. Anyways, I'll be waiting for you at the epicenter of fate.

P.S. If you fold this letter along the dotted line, you can use it as a train ticket on the Time Railroad."

I see.

But I don't understand. I know it would be wrong to expect random letters that come out of my head to make sense, but if I don't understand everything about it, I feel like I don't understand anything at all

--Null Magical Girl Vol 1

What is that? Wait, I've seen this somewhere before.

I search my mind for the memory. It's the letter, the letter that was literally in my head. By receiving this letter, I boarded the Time Railroad and traveled 800,000 years into the future. That journey made me who I am now. It made us.

Eruna lets go of the letter. Drifting in the air, it is blown away by winds of fate.

"This is the place where destiny begins-the epicenter of fate"

The circle of time is complete. The serpent of reincarnation swallows its own tail.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 3

So basically this letter originates at the highest point of the cosmology presented in the novel, with God Eruna letting it fall into the multiverse, guided by the winds of destiny.

Eruna created this letter so that Kosane could access the plane of the Time Railroad and thus travel through time.

Now then, before proceeding, what kind of plane is the Time Railroad, exactly?

It is a plane of existence that can be reached only by crossing a realm where existence and nonexistence alternate at a dizzying pace, arriving at a train platform where all of infinite time can be seen as a path with infinite trains and infinite routes.

I take the Kyubeys with me and lead them into the heart of the Time Railroad. Like Othello, I run through a realm where existence and non-existence alternate at a dizzying pace.

And thus, we overcome many challenges to reach our goal-a station platform. From the infinite future, the track stretches to the infinite past. On the tracks, infinite trains with infinite routes are parked.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 3

Therefore, the nature of the plane as a whole is quite simple: it is the temporal axis itself (4D), and this can be seen directly when Kosane absorbed the Time Railroad and its railway into her being due to an accident, rising beyond three dimensional limitations, being able to observe from a higher plane and travel along the entire temporal axis.

Who am I?

Kosane Kiriha. I am the human body indicated by that name, that is my identity.

Ah yes, that was me. But not now. Not anymore. On the platform of the Time Railroad, I was transformed with the explosion of the time locomotive's boiler. I fused with several Kyubeys and absorbed the locomotive and track itself.

Combining the temporal wisdom of the Time Railroad with the spatial intuition of Kyubey's computational power, I escaped the yoke of the three-dimensional world.

I find myself looking down on a timeline of the three-dimensional world. I see 800,000 years of struggle between Homo sapiens and Homo magica, a battle between old and new humans. This is the tragic history of the Magi Wars that Coeurl had mentioned, now unfolding before me.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 3

In that state she is even able to physically interact with the time flow itself, which is consistent given that the Time Railroad itself operates using literally temporal «coal».

The time shock wave which had swept me backwards has already decayed over my 800,000-year journey. I am no longer being pulled away by the past. I cling to this part of the timeline, digging my ten fingers into time in an attempt to stay in the present.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 3

With a shout, I throw some kind of temporal "coal" into the furnace, and time, which has become brittle and eroded by endless time loops, begins to crystalize again. A fire is lit in the boiler. Pressure wells up, and the time train slowly begins to advance. Too slow! At this rate, Eruna will catch up with me! In my haste, I shovel more "coal" into the furnace.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 3

To summarize, the preliminary information we have so far is as follows:

-) God Eruna, from the epicenter of destiny, the highest plane of existence in the cosmology presented in the novel, created a special letter for Kosane. It reached her by following the «winds of destiny», entering the multiverse.

-) The letter created by Eruna allows Kosane to reach the plane of existence known as «Time Railroad».

-) The «Time Railroad» plane is four dimensional in nature, since it spans the entire temporal axis.

This is consistent with the fact that the letter itself is a three dimensional section of a four dimensional object which, as we will see later, has the ability to break three dimensional reality and allow a person to evolve to reach the «Time Railroad» (a 4-D reality).

"This letter seems to be a three-dimensional slice of a fourdimensional structure. Could you try folding it along the line?

The finished product is a three-dimensional object composed of four equilateral triangles. In other words, it’s a tetrahedron.

“What kind of railroad company would accept this as a ticket?”

--Null Magical Girl Vol 1

Therefore, the letter grants Kosane an ontological upgrade that lets her access the «Time Railroad» plane.

This is an important point to keep in mind for the next part of the thread.

Endless Layers​

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Now that we know the purpose of the letter created by Eruna, how does it work and what effects does it have on reality?

The tetrahedron formed through the «ticket» begins to emit a blue light in all directions, overtaking its surroundings and flooding everything with blue.

That same light, emitted by the tetrahedron, paradoxically penetrates the tetrahedron itself, forming shadows within it which, instead of being cast as a two dimensional shape, emerge as three dimensional objects.

When I look closely at the tetrahedron, I notice a faint, blue light leaking from it. Since the only material used was paper, it's odd that there's light coming from it. The light gets stronger and stronger as I look at it. The intense, blue light illuminates the surroundings and dominates them in its blueness. I notice the light penetrates the tetrahedron, creating shadows inside. I'm not really sure if we can call them shadows though. They aren't projected onto a flat surface like a normal shadow, but instead emerge as three-dimensional objects.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 1

It is important to keep in mind that although the shadow appears as a three dimensional object inside the tetrahedron, it is still a shadow, that is, the absence of light in a region that takes on a shape determined by the light source.

In other words, a two dimensional shadow cast by a three dimensional object has no three dimensional properties such as volume, which is only natural, since the shadow’s shape is merely a physical phenomenon determined by external factors and not a concrete existence itself.

Continuing with the artifact’s effects, the shadow inside the tetrahedron forms another, smaller tetrahedron, which in turn forms an even smaller one, and so on ad infinitum, creating an endless series of layers within each tetrahedron and emanating another endless series outside it, surrounding it at every level.

In practical terms, this essentially means that each level is an infinite kaleidoscope, and there are infinitely many levels or layers in that «labyrinth».

The shadow forms a smaller tetrahedron inside the original tetrahedron. Upon closer inspection, I can see even smaller and smaller tetrahedrons inside it. Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest. Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 1

Upon observing the tetrahedron, Kosane realizes that her own three dimensional reality is itself a tetrahedron, and by decomposing reality in that way, all material support disappears and she falls into that void of infinite layers.

I, too, realize I'm in my own kaleidoscope. I remember the sensation of falling. The scaffolding that had supported me in this world suddenly disappeared from beneath me. I'm filled with an indescribable anxiety.

Where am I falling to?

Into the tetrahedron, eternally downward into infinite layers

--Null Magical Girl Vol 1

Let us recall the purpose of the artifact, namely to modify Kosane’s ontology from 3D to 4D, evolving her so she can access that plane.

That is precisely what happens. As Kosane falls into the void, she begins to undergo a metamorphosis: every point of her three dimensional nature becomes infinitely large, transfiguring her into a singularity.

From within endless deepness, a tetrahedron rises and scatters to a limitlessly distant place.

From each point of my body, a tetrahedron evolves, both infinitesimally small and boundlessly large, transfiguring me into a singularity.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 1

At this point, the metamorphosis to the next level concludes, and Kosane reaches the plane of the «Time Railroad», allowing her to board the train and travel 800,000 years into the future.

From far away in the labyrinth of tetrahedrons soaked in blue light, I can hear a faint, high-pitched reverberation. The noise gradually grows louder as a small dot penetrates the edge of my vision. The sound and dot slowly expand in front of me.

Ah, I know what it is.

It's a train, a steam locomotive that belches out black smoke as its whistle cries out in its jet-black advance. The train arrives with a deafening noise.

I suddenly find myself on a station platform. The station was a stylish brick building, but it didn't look like it was maintained very well. Here and there were holes in the structure.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 1

In summary:

The artifact essentially allows one to «decompose reality into tetrahedra», enabling the being who uses the letter to undergo a physical evolution in order to reach a higher plane.

Scaling​

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Why do I think the above proves the cosmology is High 1-B?

Simple. As I showed above, the material world in which Kosane exists and the Time Railroad, respectively a three dimensional plane and a four dimensional plane, are tetrahedra within that labyrinth. However, the point is that the labyrinth is not limited to those two levels.

As we already saw, there is explicitly an infinite number of levels, an eternal hierarchy that goes «upward» and «downward».

Each level in that hierarchy not only transcends the previous one by a transfinite quantitative difference, as shown by the explanation of Kosane’s evolution, but they also trivialize one another as shadows, which is a qualitative difference. Therefore, this is a clear dimensional difference, just like that between the third and fourth dimensions.

From each point of my body, a tetrahedron evolves, both infinitesimally small and boundlessly large, transfiguring me into a singularity.

I notice the light penetrates the tetrahedron, creating shadows inside. I'm not really sure if we can call them shadows though. They aren't projected onto a flat surface like a normal shadow, but instead emerge as three-dimensional objects.

So High 1B seems fairly straightforward and easy to me.

If anyone still has doubts about planes beyond the Time Railroad, the verse explicitly has a super-time, that is, a higher temporal dimension, which Kosane accesses by raising her ontology once she is already a goddess.

Until now, I was bound by the timeline. No matter how far I moved into the past and future, I was nothing more than an insect crawling on the dimension of time. But now I am transcending time!

With all my strength, I push in the direction of super-time and rise above 2021.

I know that there is a tremendous existence there. It's a thread-countless versions of 2021, thousands of variations of my corpses, being pulled and rolled up into a spinning spool.

--Null Magical Girl Vol 4

Therefore, this should put to rest any remaining doubts on the matter.

Addressing counter arguments​

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1) Kosane fell toward a lower tetrahedron that was seen as shadows, so it should be 2D instead of 4D.

This argument is weak because it presupposes that the notions of «up» and «down» Kosane experiences in the scene are the same as ours.

«Up» and «down» are nothing more than human concepts created through a reference point, so they are variable rather than immutable. A person at the North Pole and a person at the South Pole will have two different concepts of «up» because their reference points differ.

At that moment Kosane had lost all material support and found herself in a chaotic kaleidoscopic labyrinth with no reference points, so taking the mention that she «fell into the tetrahedron» as an allusion to a process of involution rather than evolution makes no sense, especially when we know the purpose of the letter is to make Kosane evolve into a four dimensional being and we see her existence become so immense that every point of her body becomes infinite, turning her into an infinite singularity (so the act of falling involves increasing her own physical magnitude instead of viceversa).

So basically this argument makes no sense in the context of the scene and is essentially a Nirvana fallacy that demands a 1:1 narration of how we, as beings lower than the plane Kosane is experiencing, perceive reality, while ignoring everything else.

2) «The letter is 3D so everything caps at 3D» or «the letter is a tridimensional slice of a tetradimensional structure so the epicenter of destiny caps at 4D»

Both arguments are very weak. Leaving aside that they ignore and do not address the entire logical process up to this point, their own premise makes no sense.

It is obvious that when Eruna created the letter at the epicenter of destiny it was not three dimensional or four dimensional, because that plane is at least a world beyond the timeline 4D and the supertime I showed earlier 5D, a realm of existence so elevated that it perceives all possible time as flowing rivers.

The sound of great rivers echo all around us. An infinite number of rivers are flowing, swelling, and surging.

This is time. I know it intuitively. Chain links of events flow together as time.

There are certain things hanging over the river of time. I know it's a fundamental error to call them trees. But it's impossible to describe them without using such a metaphor.

As I showed above, I have demonstrated that the gods Kosane and Eruna can alter their ontology and create objects capable of altering a person’s ontology, so the letter simply descended from outside the universe and ultimately ended up inside Kosane’s head.

There is no great mystery, occam's razor.

Conclusion​

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The cosmology gets upgraded to High 1-B. I'm gonna adress the concrete scaling of the characters in the next thread.

Votes​

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Agree: @Mr_Lumbago - @Robo432343 - @Lycenum_lycopersicum - @Tzimtzumim - @Wankbreaker - @Kaltias - @RaveeCPN - @BestMGQScalerEver - @Phoenks - @DaimDB - @SomebodyData - @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless - @Maverick_Zero_X - @DarkDragonMedeus (Leaning towards agreeing) - @Qawsedf234 - @Reiner04

Disagree: @Telomera

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

It sounds quite straightforward, I agree FRA.

 

[Tzimtzumim]

Also agree with this. Hopefully this doesn't die like the past ones.
Following.

 

[Wankbreaker]

meguca.

At first glance, I don’t see any holes in your logic, so I agree

 

[Robo432343]

disagree for @MeiouHades reasons

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

disagree for @MeiouHades reasons

What?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Anyway, I can see where this is headed, but I would appreciate it if, unless you have something to contribute to the thread, you refrain from posting trolling or derailing the discussion. If you want someone to come in and argue, share the thread on their profile.

 

[Kaltias]

The revision is fine, i agree

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

sure i agree

 

[Phoenks]

Following. Read through it and seems fine.

My third time agreeing to this thread.

 

[MeiouHades]

disagree for @MeiouHades reasons

I won't be participating, I have a life too

 

[DaimDB]

Looks fine, Following.

 

[SomebodyData]

I agree with the revision (also appreciate how much more straightforward it is this time)

Well @Robo432343, you could just copy and paste the argument here.

 

[Jinsye]

Someone brought up these counterpoints on Discord and I thought it will be worthy to bring them here just so people have a clear picture. I do generally agree with the revisions but for the sake of having at least some kind of dissent for a healthy discussion I'll bring them up for clarity's sake.

You can respond to these arguments but I will not be responding back because these are not my arguments.

Scenario 1: The letter is the infinite-dimensional structure and Kosane gets sucked into the letter

It is pretty blatantly described as 4-D. There isn't really a way around that, the letter itself is described as something that would not constitute infinite dimensions. Thus, it is likely that the "endless layers" are not dimensional gaps in that sense and way more likely to mean something else. Your interpretation relies on some vague descriptor that doesn't necessarily disprove the direct statement that the letter is 4-D.

Scenario 2: The letter is not literally an infinite-dimensional structure and she falls through reality which is infinitely layered.

In order to get High 1-B, you need multiple things to be true that aren't very likely. It all comes from the one statement. "Into the tetrahedron, through infinite layers"

This requires you to:

A)take that “into the tetrahedron” is a metaphor (more likely than not)

B)take that the rest of that sentence isn’t a metaphor (way less likely, maybe enough to cancel out the likelihood of it being a metaphor)

C)Take that the infinite layers are upwards rather than downwards even though when you really look into it there isn’t any evidence supporting that (less likely)

A is because reality itself is NOT described as a tetrahedron, it is only described as it's own separate kaleidoscope. There isn't anything in the text that suggests that Kosane's reality and the tetrahedron reality are fundamentally the same structure. Thus "into the tetrahedron" is most likely a metaphor for how she sees the world. Because unless you take the first interpretation of her being literally sucked into the tetrahedron, then this does not work.

B needs to be taken into account because the only tetrahedron described as said is the letter, not reality. As a result, if one part of the statement that implies that reality is a metaphor, then it is likely the infinite layers are a metaphor too, described as a set of trippy visuals rather than a literal ontological difference.

C needs to be taken into account because there is not necessarily anything describing this hierarchy as upwards. The shadows "surround" it, they don't necessarily means they're going upwards. Consider it says “inside each is an endless series of them” after talking about the layers of tetrahedrons. Could this be talking about endless shapes within a layer in a sense? Or how a layer is constructed of infinite shapes?

Also consider that it explicitly states elsewhere that the letter is a 3-D slice of a 4-B object. It therefore seems pretty clear that the tetrahedrons surrounding it are the other 3-D slices. This also means you aren’t contradicting the blatant description of the tetrahedron as 4-D.

Hopefully I phrased those arguments properly.

 

[First_Witch]

The revision is fine, i agree

I agree with the revision (also appreciate how much more straightforward it is this time)

Well @Robo432343, you could just copy and paste the argument here.

What the **** is going on, first Azzy returns out of nowhere for a pitstop and now the Madoka goons??

 

[Kaltias]

What the **** is going on, first Azzy returns out of nowhere for a pitstop and now the Madoka goons??

Nice to see you too

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I would appreciate it if people could please read the thread before presenting any counterarguments, because those two arguments literally do not refute anything in the thread.

Argument 1​

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It is pretty blatantly described as 4-D. There isn't really a way around that, the letter itself is described as something that would not constitute infinite dimensions.

This is a straw man. At no point did I say the «letter» is infinitely dimensional. At the moment Kosane activates the mechanism it is three dimensional, as Kyubey mentions.

What I did say is that the letter’s original nature, meaning when it was created, cannot be three dimensional, because its nature comes from God Eruna, who resides on a plane that, even lowballed to the minimum, is 6D. So obviously the letter also underwent an evolution before ending up in Kosane’s head.

Unless you are implying that a three dimensional piece of paper, which a three dimensional being can touch and interact with, can exist on a plane beyond the timeline and supertime. In that case the burden of proof rests on the person making that claim.

Thus, it is likely that the "endless layers" are not dimensional gaps in that sense and way more likely to mean something else. Your interpretation relies on some vague descriptor that doesn't necessarily disprove the direct statement that the letter is 4-D.

There are at least two claims here that are not justified by any logical reasoning. You have not shown how «the description is vague», and you have not shown that the layers are not referring to higher dimensions, despite the direct examples I provided with the Time Railroad and supertime.

Tell the person to come here to the thread to discuss it if they disagree.

Argument 2​

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A)take that “into the tetrahedron” is a metaphor (more likely than not)

A is because reality itself is NOT described as a tetrahedron, it is only described as it's own separate kaleidoscope. There isn't anything in the text that suggests that Kosane's reality and the tetrahedron reality are fundamentally the same structure. Thus "into the tetrahedron" is most likely a metaphor for how she sees the world. Because unless you take the first interpretation of her being literally sucked into the tetrahedron, then this does not work.

All this coping falls apart instantly with this

Citing:

Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest. Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it.

Citing:

I, too, realize I'm in my own kaleidoscope. I remember the sensation of falling. The scaffolding that had supported me in this world suddenly disappeared from beneath me. I'm filled with an indescribable anxiety.

Where am I falling to?

Into the tetrahedron, eternally downward into infinite layers

--Null Magical Girl Vol 1

Analyzing the text, Kosane states that she is inside her own kaleidoscope, yet she had not begun her fall through the infinite layers of the labyrinth. This consequently means that each layer of the labyrinth is a kaleidoscope, because otherwise Kosane would not claim to be in her own kaleidoscope before falling.

It is amusing how the person in question literally ignores the entire line of reasoning and cherry picks the fact that I mentioned the material reality being decomposed as a tetrahedron rather than a kaleidoscope, as if both things were mutually exclusive.

B)take that the rest of that sentence isn’t a metaphor (way less likely, maybe enough to cancel out the likelihood of it being a metaphor)

B needs to be taken into account because the only tetrahedron described as said is the letter, not reality. As a result, if one part of the statement that implies that reality is a metaphor, then it is likely the infinite layers are a metaphor too, described as a set of trippy visuals rather than a literal ontological difference.

This person is not arguing in good faith, and this part of the message makes it crystal clear to me.

The «layers» in question are literally the tetrahedra that manifest as shadows in an ad infinitum cycle.

Citing:

When I look closely at the tetrahedron, I notice a faint, blue light leaking from it. Since the only material used was paper, it's odd that there's light coming from it. The light gets stronger and stronger as I look at it. The intense, blue light illuminates the surroundings and dominates them in its blueness. I notice the light penetrates the tetrahedron, creating shadows inside. I'm not really sure if we can call them shadows though. They aren't projected onto a flat surface like a normal shadow, but instead emerge as three-dimensional objects.

Physical reality itself ceased to exist due to the effects of the letter, and I repeat, this was before the fall. Therefore, implying that everything takes place inside the letter and that reality has nothing to do with it, or that the description is metaphorical, directly goes against the source material.

Citing:

I, too, realize I'm in my own kaleidoscope. I remember the sensation of falling. The scaffolding that had supported me in this world suddenly disappeared from beneath me. I'm filled with an indescribable anxiety.

The rest of the message is made up of empty, self-contradictory conclusions that do not logically follow from the initial premise, so it is a no sequitur.

And to top it off, the premise is wrong.

C)Take that the infinite layers are upwards rather than downwards even though when you really look into it there isn’t any evidence supporting that (less likely)

C needs to be taken into account because there is not necessarily anything describing this hierarchy as upwards. The shadows "surround" it, they don't necessarily means they're going upwards.

I already refuted this. Yet another piece of evidence that the person who made those arguments didn’t read the thread.

1) Kosane fell toward a lower tetrahedron that was seen as shadows, so it should be 2D instead of 4D.

This argument is weak because it presupposes that the notions of «up» and «down» Kosane experiences in the scene are the same as ours.

«Up» and «down» are nothing more than human concepts created through a reference point, so they are variable rather than immutable. A person at the North Pole and a person at the South Pole will have two different concepts of «up» because their reference points differ.

At that moment Kosane had lost all material support and found herself in a chaotic kaleidoscopic labyrinth with no reference points, so taking the mention that she «fell into the tetrahedron» as an allusion to a process of involution rather than evolution makes no sense, especially when we know the purpose of the letter is to make Kosane evolve into a four dimensional being and we see her existence become so immense that every point of her body becomes infinite, turning her into an infinite singularity (so the act of falling involves increasing her own physical magnitude instead of viceversa).

So basically this argument makes no sense in the context of the scene and is essentially a Nirvana fallacy that demands a 1:1 narration of how we, as beings lower than the plane Kosane is experiencing, perceive reality, while ignoring everything else.

And lastly....

Consider it says “inside each is an endless series of them” after talking about the layers of tetrahedrons. Could this be talking about endless shapes within a layer in a sense? Or how a layer is constructed of infinite shapes?

Each tetrahedron is a layer. The tetrahedron itself forms a kaleidoscope through a play of light and shadow, creating infinite levels beneath it. This process repeats endlessly

Tetrahedron 1 → Inside it you see the entire lower hierarchy as an infinite series of shadows → Tetrahedron 2 → Inside it you see the entire lower hierarchy as an infinite series of shadows ....... (ad infinitum)

It’s the equivalent of having an infinite R>F hierarchy but in this case dimensional

And so on through every level. That is why each tetrahedron is a kaleidoscope.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with the revision.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Added

 

[First_Witch]

Nice to see you too

Good to see you in good health, even if your visit is (probably) short

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Please stay focused on the topic of the thread and avoid messages that do not contribute to its conclusion.

 

[Telomera]

I'm going to have to disagree.

Initially, all we see here is that every point of Kosane's body is expanding to an infinite extent one by one, with tetrahedrons expanding to infinity over and over and over again until Kosane "falls" to the time railroad. By itself, this would just be an infinite multiplier, debatably an uncountably infinite one bringing her to 5D rather than High 1-B. But of course, that isn't all we're going off of.

​

Issues with treating the endless labyrinth as an extension of Kosane's evolution from 3D to 4D​

As I showed above, the material world in which Kosane exists and the Time Railroad, respectively a three dimensional plane and a four dimensional plane, are tetrahedra within that labyrinth. However, the point is that the labyrinth is not limited to those two levels.

As we already saw, there is explicitly an infinite number of levels, an eternal hierarchy that goes «upward» and «downward».

Basically, the 4D Time Railroad is just the second step along this endless series of tetrahedrons. Since the following steps are practically the same, we can assume this process of evolving into a "dimensionally superior" level of reality continues with each of these levels, right? These steps aren't just points of her existence expanding to infinity, they're entire steps up in terms of "dimensional superiority." It's actually sound logic. I'd agree... if it weren't for the fact that the Time Railroad is NOT the second layer of this infinite labyrinth of tetrahedrons; on the contrary, it is actually the FINAL stage of it.

OP got the order all wrong: these tetrahedrons aren't continuations of Kosane's evolution towards the 4D Time Railroad, they're just intermediate stages. Reading the passage in order makes this quite clear. First, Kosane evolves through these infinite tetrahedrons in the top half of page 35. After that, she hears the Time Railroad and catches a glimpse of it at the end of the infinite series of shadowy tetrahedrons in the middle of page 35. It is only after falling through all of those infinite tetrahedrons that that she reaches the Time Railroad at the bottom of page 35.

And since those infinite tetrahedrons are only intermediate stages, mere infinitesimally tiny subsets of her evolution towards the higher dimensional Time Railroad rather than extensions of it, we obviously cannot assume that each of these stages is equivalent to the same higher dimensional growth that she experiences over all of them together. That's entirely backwards.

In fact, OP's explanation has a major problem: it describes Time Railroad as simply being 4D despite it being the final stage of Kosane's supposedly-High 1-B evolution. This is blatantly self-contradictory if taking the approach that each stage of the labyrinth is "dimensionally superior" to its antecedent.

​

Issues with the shadow/qualitative difference argument​

But that's not the only thing that's backwards here. OP further tries to justify the claim that each of these stages is equivalent to evolution to a "dimensionally superior" level of existence arguing this:

Each level in that hierarchy not only transcends the previous one by a transfinite quantitative difference, as shown by the explanation of Kosane’s evolution, but they also trivialize one another as shadows, which is a qualitative difference. Therefore, this is a clear dimensional difference, just like that between the third and fourth dimensions.

Basically, since the previous layer is trivialized as a shadow, the subsequent layer must be superior by a "qualitative difference," right? Absolutely not.

The layers of the labyrinth do not trivialize the previous ones as if they were shadows. The only time shadows are ever even mentioned in this text is when Kosane is looking deeper into the labyrinth. She is looking at later stages of the labyrinth and seeing them as shadows, not the other way around. It's made quite clear here that there are shadows inside the first tetrahedron that is casting the shadows. It's also made quite clear that Kosane was evolving/falling into the first tetrahedron that was casting the shadows. If we treat "shadow" tetrahedrons as being inferior to the original, non-shadow tetrahedron, then since Kosane is falling into the shadow tetrahedrons that are inside the original tetrahedron, that would inevitably mean that Kosane is falling/evolving into inferior states of being. As OP points out, this makes absolutely no sense in this context:

taking the mention that she «fell into the tetrahedron» as an allusion to a process of involution rather than evolution makes no sense, especially when we know the purpose of the letter is to make Kosane evolve into a four dimensional being and we see her existence become so immense that every point of her body becomes infinite, turning her into an infinite singularity (so the act of falling involves increasing her own physical magnitude instead of viceversa).

OP's assumption about how the shadows work is also backwards. Since the "shadow tetrahedron must be dimensionally inferior to non-shadow tetrahedron" interpretation inevitably leads to the conclusion that Kosane is simply going into qualitatively inferior states of being, which actively contradicts the context of the passage, we must reject this idea. After all, shadows are often portrayed as more than just empty nothingness in fiction, including in this story. The later stages of the endless series of tetrahedrons may look like shadows, but that doesn't mean that they're qualitatively inferior.

Not only that, but all the tetrahedrons inside the original, first tetrahedron are shadows anyways, meaning that there is just one stage that isn't a shadow and then an infinite amount of stages that are all equally shadow, which Kosane can see even before going through her evolution.

And on top of all that, "qualitative difference" is a FAR more loaded claim that simple dimensional superiority. "Qualitative superiority" over baseline 3D reality is inherently outerversal, not just a mere increase in dimensional levels. If OP truly wants to claim that there is a "qualitative difference" between each level of the tetrahedral labyrinth, they would also have to go through all of the baggage of proving that this is a literal indication of the shadows literally not being real compared to the non-shadows rather than a "simple visual portrayal[] of a character viewing the world within some such construct [in this case, shadows]."

What then?​

Now that I have explained that the infinite stages of the tetrahedron labyrinth actually are not extensions of her evolution from 3D to 4D and that there isn't a qualitative difference between those stages, we are now left with zero reason to believe that each stage of this endless labyrinth of tetrahedrons is equivalent to an additional layer of "dimensional superiority," and by extension zero reason to believe that this labyrinth of tetrahedrons is High 1-B.

However, I do think that there is room for 5D. As mentioned by the OP, supertime exists in the verse, which is an additional direction of time that allows Kosane to rise "above 2021." Additionally, growing from an infinitesimally point to an infinitely large size would arguably be an uncountably infinite difference, which further supports Low 1-C.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Okay, I read the text and I disagree with basically everything. I will respond in an hour, I am a bit busy.

I am putting you on the disagree list.

 

[Telomera]

This argument is weak because it presupposes that the notions of «up» and «down» Kosane experiences in the scene are the same as ours.

«Up» and «down» are nothing more than human concepts created through a reference point, so they are variable rather than immutable. A person at the North Pole and a person at the South Pole will have two different concepts of «up» because their reference points differ.

By the way, this counterargument doesn't disprove anything in my argument. No matter the reference point, Kosane falling "into" the tetrahedron would mean her moving towards the inside of it as opposed to away from it.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Forcefully, Madoka and by proxy Akuma Homura will have to scale too, would make zero sense if they didn't.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I will simply say that I'm not gonna start an endless back and forth nor do I want this thread to turn into 10 pages. I'm going to respond to what I believe might be a real attack on my thread and let the rest slide.

Staff members can decide later the conclusion.

Basically, the 4D Time Railroad is just the second step along this endless series of tetrahedrons. Since the following steps are practically the same, we can assume this process of evolving into a "dimensionally superior" level of reality continues with each of these levels, right? These steps aren't just points of her existence expanding to infinity, they're entire steps up in terms of "dimensional superiority." It's actually sound logic. I'd agree... if it weren't for the fact that the Time Railroad is NOT the second layer of this infinite labyrinth of tetrahedrons; on the contrary, it is actually the FINAL stage of it.

OP got the order all wrong: these tetrahedrons aren't continuations of Kosane's evolution towards the 4D Time Railroad, they're just intermediate stages. Reading the passage in order makes this quite clear. First, Kosane evolves through these infinite tetrahedrons in the top half of page 35. After that, she hears the Time Railroad and catches a glimpse of it at the end of the infinite series of shadowy tetrahedrons in the middle of page 35. It is only after falling through all of those infinite tetrahedrons that that she reaches the Time Railroad at the bottom of page 35.

No.

First of all, I never got the sequence wrong. The text in my analysis outlines, step by step, what happens in the scene, and you even show it yourself in the scan you shared.

Your interpretation makes no sense. To begin with, the text says the following:

Where am I falling to?
Into the tetrahedron, eternally downward into infinite layers.

The Japanese text of the scene, along with its translation, is as follows:

どこに落下するっていうの? 正四面体のなかへ。無限の階層
をいつまでも落ち続けている。

Where do you say I’m falling to? Into the interior of a regular tetrahedron. I keep falling forever through infinite layers.

Here the narration stylistically presents an action, falling, within a scenario of infinite time. It asserts that by falling into the labyrinth eternally, Kosane would undergo an infinite evolution across infinite layers. It is simply poetic writing meant to convey that she is falling in that plane with nothing to support her.

I say this because the act of falling does not take infinite time in the scene as described by the text. Therefore Kosane could not traverse every layer of the labyrinth if doing so required falling «forever», and this point is necessary, because otherwise you would have to argue that Kosane fell through infinite layers at infinite speed, which, well, good luck proving something that was never written or implied in the text.

What Kosane actually traversed was a single kaleidoscope/tetrahedron, which essentially represents her evolution from three-dimensional reality to the four-dimensional realm of the Time Railroad.

We witness this gradual transformation as Kosane becomes an infinite singularity.

From within endless deepness, a tetrahedron rises and scatters to a limitlessly distant place.

From each point of my body, a tetrahedron evolves, both infinitesimally small and boundlessly large, transfiguring me into a singularity.

Ergo, that's exactly what I explained in the thread's proposal. If Kosane had gone through all the layers, the narration would not suggest she only passed through one.

The labyrinth does not end after reaching the Time Railroad. At no point is that said or even implied. The letter is simply allows a sort of «noclip» in reality that allows you to evolve your existence.

And since those infinite tetrahedrons are only intermediate stages, mere infinitesimally tiny subsets of her evolution towards the higher dimensional Time Railroad rather than extensions of it, we obviously cannot assume that each of these stages is equivalent to the same higher dimensional growth that she experiences over all of them together. That's entirely backwards.

In fact, OP's explanation has a major problem: it describes Time Railroad as simply being 4D despite it being the final stage of Kosane's supposedly-High 1-B evolution. This is blatantly self-contradictory if taking the approach that each stage of the labyrinth is "dimensionally superior" to its antecedent.

It is self contradictory because you are misinterpreting the text and your premises are wrong. Anyway, I already responded to this part above.

Basically, since the previous layer is trivialized as a shadow, the subsequent layer must be superior by a "qualitative difference," right? Absolutely not.

The layers of the labyrinth do not trivialize the previous ones as if they were shadows. The only time shadows are ever even mentioned in this text is when Kosane is looking deeper into the labyrinth. She is looking at later stages of the labyrinth and seeing them as shadows, not the other way around. It's made quite clear here that there are shadows inside the first tetrahedron that is casting the shadows. It's also made quite clear that Kosane was evolving/falling into the first tetrahedron that was casting the shadows. If we treat "shadow" tetrahedrons as being inferior to the original, non-shadow tetrahedron, then since Kosane is falling into the shadow tetrahedrons that are inside the original tetrahedron, that would inevitably mean that Kosane is falling/evolving into inferior states of being. As OP points out, this makes absolutely no sense in this context:

OP's assumption about how the shadows work is also backwards. Since the "shadow tetrahedron must be dimensionally inferior to non-shadow tetrahedron" interpretation inevitably leads to the conclusion that Kosane is simply going into qualitatively inferior states of being, which actively contradicts the context of the passage, we must reject this idea.

This part of the text can be summarized as «Kosane fell into the shadow of the lower tetrahedron; therefore she is devolving».

I have already debunked this idea in the thread. The fact that Kosane falls downward is irrelevant if it is demonstrated that the lower levels of the hierarchy hold a quantitatively superior difference rather than an inferior one. The way the work depicts this superiority (upwards or downwards) is not important in this case. Even the higher tetrahedrons are emanations of the lower one, so the relationship between «shadow» and «real» of the layers in this case is simply not conventional and functions through a different logic while still retaining the characteristics that allow it to scale (as explained in the difference section). The important stuff here is the difference in magnitudes from one plane to the other.

Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest.

Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it.

After all, shadows are often portrayed as more than just empty nothingness in fiction, including in this story. The later stages of the endless series of tetrahedrons may look like shadows, but that doesn't mean that they're qualitatively inferior.

Nothing supports this interpretation in the text.

Not only that, but all the tetrahedrons inside the original, first tetrahedron are shadows anyways, meaning that there is just one stage that isn't a shadow and then an infinite amount of stages that are all equally shadow, which Kosane can see even before going through her evolution.

I'm gonna repeat myself once more:

Each tetrahedron is a layer. The tetrahedron itself forms a kaleidoscope through a play of light and shadow, creating infinite levels beneath it. This process repeats endlessly

Tetrahedron 1 → Inside it you see the entire lower hierarchy as an infinite series of shadows → Tetrahedron 2 → Inside it you see the entire lower hierarchy as an infinite series of shadows ....... (ad infinitum)

It’s the equivalent of having an infinite R>F hierarchy but in this case dimensional

And so on through every level. That is why each tetrahedron is a kaleidoscope.

And on top of all that, "qualitative difference" is a FAR more loaded claim that simple dimensional superiority. "Qualitative superiority" over baseline 3D reality is inherently outerversal, not just a mere increase in dimensional levels. If OP truly wants to claim that there is a "qualitative difference" between each level of the tetrahedral labyrinth, they would also have to go through all of the baggage of proving that this is a literal indication of the shadows literally not being real compared to the non-shadows rather than a "simple visual portrayal[] of a character viewing the world within some such construct [in this case, shadows]."

A dimensional difference is also qualitative in nature. A qualitative difference does not have to be the kind of brainrot powerscalers are used to. It is a matter of lacking inherent properties tied to a given level of reality X and not being a substantial existence. That is what being a shadow entails. I am not arguing for a 1-A or anything like that.

What then?​

Now that I have explained that the infinite stages of the tetrahedron labyrinth actually are not extensions of her evolution from 3D to 4D and that there isn't a qualitative difference between those stages, we are now left with zero reason to believe that each stage of this endless labyrinth of tetrahedrons is equivalent to an additional layer of "dimensional superiority," and by extension zero reason to believe that this labyrinth of tetrahedrons is High 1-B.

However, I do think that there is room for 5D. As mentioned by the OP, supertime exists in the verse, which is an additional direction of time that allows Kosane to rise "above 2021." Additionally, growing from an infinitesimally point to an infinitely large size would arguably be an uncountably infinite difference, which further supports Low 1-C.

No. Thank you.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Forcefully, Madoka and by proxy Akuma Homura will have to scale too, would make zero sense if they didn't.

Yeah. After this thread I'm making one for Madokami and Homucifer's tier.

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

As far as I read into the thread it seems fine.

also, we gotta chill out with those 'qualititative difference' thing, we already got over using word 'transcendance' to mean anything without proper context. QS underpins specifically the essential difference between spatiotemporality and 1A being, however it is perfectly coherent,intelligible,distinctly conceivable to say there is qualititative difference between material and immaterial,things on micro and macro scales,between distinct dimensional configurations and so on insofar as one exhibits property not possessed by another,thus defining the relationship between them.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The OP makes sense to me.

 

[Kebabbaro.1]

I agree with everthing

 

[Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm]

Meduka still isn't 1-A?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Meduka still isn't 1-A?

Next thread. She definitely scales above all of this.

 

[Telomera]

A dimensional difference is also qualitative in nature. A qualitative difference does not have to be the kind of brainrot powerscalers are used to. It is a matter of lacking inherent properties tied to a given level of reality X and not being a substantial existence. That is what being a shadow entails. I am not arguing for a 1-A or anything like that.

Too bad because that's objectively what the standards are on this site. You can believe whatever you want, but your proposal goes against our standards, and no staff member should cherry pick and ignore this just to upgrade the Puella Magi verse.

The fact that Kosane falls downward is irrelevant if it is demonstrated that the lower levels of the hierarchy hold a quantitatively superior difference rather than an inferior one.

...

Tetrahedron 1 → Inside it you see the entire lower hierarchy as an infinite series of shadows → Tetrahedron 2 → Inside it you see the entire lower hierarchy as an infinite series of shadows ....... (ad infinitum)

Are you admitting that the shadows are actually superior to the non-shadows? That's precisely my point! Shadows in real life obviously aren't "superior" to non-shadows, so they are clearly not comparable at all to the "shadows" that we're told about in this scene.

The way the work depicts this superiority (upwards or downwards) is not important in this case. Even the higher tetrahedrons are emanations of the lower one, so the relationship between «shadow» and «real» of the layers in this case is simply not conventional and functions through a different logic while still retaining the characteristics that allow it to scale (as explained in the difference section).

I have no idea what you mean by "difference section" but at this point you're just cherrypicking. You admit that these shadows are far different from normal shadows. Here, the lower hierarchy, which are shadows, are actually superior to the previous non-shadow stage rather than inferior. That is the precise opposite of the relationship between shadows and non-shadows in real life. We even see that they're different because they're 3-dimensional rather than 2-dimensional, and Kosane doesn't even know if they can really be called shadows. It is evident that the shadows spoken of in this text are not comparable to real shadows at all. Yet you want to specifically keep the quantitative difference that would exist between shadows and non-shadows in real life? That's special pleading. We already know that the "shadows" here are not comparable at all to real life shadows, so we cannot just cherry pick aspects of the relationship between real shadows and real non-shadows and apply them to this situation, especially not if you're just going to apply them in reverse!

Ergo, that's exactly what I explained in the thread's proposal. If Kosane had gone through all the layers, the narration would not suggest she only passed through one.

Your argument for the labyrinth being an infinitely layered extension of her evolution from 3D to 4D is entirely based off of "the narration suggesting she only passed through one" yet it literally doesn't. In fact, she already fell through at least one tetrahedron before getting to the Time Railroad and likely even more considering the fact that the text describes there being a tetrahedron expanding from each point in her body (of which there would be infinitely many) and the fact that the Time Railroad is "far away in the labyrinth of tetrahedrons."

You have literally no proof that the Time Railroad was just the second stage of the labyrinth.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I already addressed all of this so I'm not gonna repeat myself unless a staff member requires an extra explanation. We can wait for more staff input.

 

[Phoenks]

Too bad because that's objectively what the standards are on this site. You can believe whatever you want, but your proposal goes against our standards, and no staff member should cherry pick and ignore this just to upgrade the Puella Magi verse.

They are explicitly not using the current VSBW definition, otherwise they would be upgrading the verse to 1-A. They are stating that "qualitative" here just means a difference in the composition and complexity in the layers, which can also mean a dimensional difference.

In fact, VSBW literally used to define the word in that exact same way. It wasn't until the most recent tiering revision that it changed.

This is a straw-man argument, because you are addressing a claim the OP is not making.

Are you admitting that the shadows are actually superior to the non-shadows? That's precisely my point! Shadows in real life obviously aren't "superior" to non-shadows, so they are clearly not comparable at all to the "shadows" that we're told about in this scene.

Another strawman. You are making up things that nobody has said.

This is not what the OP/supporters are saying at all.

The text quite literally showcases that the lower dimensions are seen as shadows from the higher ones.

When I look closely at the tetrahedron, I notice a faint, blue light leaking from it. Since the only material used was paper, it's odd that there's light coming from it. The light gets stronger and stronger as I look at it. The intense, blue light illuminates the surroundings and dominates them in its blueness. I notice the light penetrates the tetrahedron, creating shadows inside. I'm not really sure if we can call them shadows though. They aren't projected onto a flat surface like a normal shadow, but instead emerge as three-dimensional objects.

Explicitly stating that the shadows of the 4-dimensional tetrahedron emerge as 3-dimensional objects.

And this process continues ad infinitum in both directions.

The shadow forms a smaller tetrahedron inside the original tetrahedron. Upon closer inspection, I can see even smaller and smaller tetrahedrons inside it. Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest. Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it.

I have no idea what you mean by "difference section" but at this point you're just cherrypicking. You admit that these shadows are far different from normal shadows. Here, the lower hierarchy, which are shadows, are actually superior to the previous non-shadow stage rather than inferior. That is the precise opposite of the relationship between shadows and non-shadows in real life. We even see that they're different because they're 3-dimensional rather than 2-dimensional, and Kosane doesn't even know if they can really be called shadows. It is evident that the shadows spoken of in this text are not comparable to real shadows at all. Yet you want to specifically keep the quantitative difference that would exist between shadows and non-shadows in real life? That's special pleading. We already know that the "shadows" here are not comparable at all to real life shadows, so we cannot just cherry pick aspects of the relationship between real shadows and real non-shadows and apply them to this situation, especially not if you're just going to apply them in reverse!

Of course they aren't comparable to real life shadows, dude. It's literally a metaphor for how each layer of the tetrahedron is the progenitor of a lower layer, which in this case are literal geometric dimensions. The comparison to a "shadow" shows a gap in complexity between the layers, because each one is just a lower-emanation of the higher layer. This is extremely common figurative language for explaining these kinds of complexities.

Its like how a 3-dimensional person projects a 2-dimensional shadow onto a plane. Only in this case 4-D structure emits a 3-D structure; 3-D a 2-D structure; and so on. I don't see how this is difficult to grasp whatsoever, frankly.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

This is the important part of my text:

The fact that Kosane falls downward is irrelevant if it is demonstrated that the lower levels of the hierarchy hold a quantitatively superior difference rather than an inferior one. The way the work depicts this superiority (upwards or downwards) is not important in this case. Even the higher tetrahedrons are emanations of the lower one, so the relationship between «shadow» and «real» of the layers in this case is simply not conventional and functions through a different logic while still retaining the characteristics that allow it to scale (as explained in the difference section). The important stuff here is the difference in magnitudes from one plane to the other.

I do not think Telomera is going to change his mind given the user, so I recommend not starting a back and forth so the staff can actually read the thread and give a satisfactory conclusion.

Let us just wait. If any staff member needs further clarification, I can provide it without issues.

I'm confident my messages already addressed his points.

 

[Phoenks]

Okay. Here's some Tier 1 Staff:

@FinePoint
@Reiner04
@Qawsedf234
@ActuallySpaceMan42
@DarkDragonMedeus
@Celestial_Pegasus

 

[Telomera]

They are stating that "qualitative" here just means a difference in the composition and complexity in the layers, which can also mean a dimensional difference.

There's no evidence that it is a dimensional difference here. The only reason you would arrive at that conclusion is by arbitrarily assigning the properties of real shadows to the shadows here, which is obviously not the case here. Contrary to your assertion that OP does not concede that the shadows are superior to the non-shadows, they actually do say this:

Tetrahedron 1 → Inside it you see the entire lower hierarchy as an infinite series of shadows → Tetrahedron 2 → Inside it you see the entire lower hierarchy as an infinite series of shadows ....... (ad infinitum)

I have already debunked this idea in the thread. The fact that Kosane falls downward is irrelevant if it is demonstrated that the lower levels of the hierarchy hold a quantitatively superior difference rather than an inferior one. The way the work depicts this superiority (upwards or downwards) is not important in this case.

If the shadows are the lower levels of the hierarchy and the lower levels of the hierarchy are quantitatively superior, then by transitive logic that would mean that the shadows are quantitatively superior. That much is undeniable. These shadows are simply incomparable to real shadows, you can't arbitrarily decide that a quantitative difference must apply here.

---

Explicitly stating that the shadows of the 4-dimensional tetrahedron emerge as 3-dimensional objects.

You're blatantly misreading the text here. There was no 4-dimensional tetrahedron casting 3-dimensional shadows. The thing that actually casted the shadows was Kosane's letter which she folded into a tetrahedron. Said letter was only a 3-dimensional slice of an original 4-dimensional space. The folded tetrahedron is again stated to be 3-dimensional here. There was no scenario here where a 4-dimensional tetrahedron casted 3-dimensional shadows. It is a case of a 3-dimensional shape casting 3-dimensional "shadows" of itself with equal dimensionality to itself.

And I'm not sure if this is the mistake you're making here, but you do realize that tetrahedrons are 3-dimensional shapes, right? The "tetra-" refers to the number of faces that the shape has, not the number of dimensions.

---

Of course they aren't comparable to real life shadows, dude. It's literally a metaphor for how each layer of the tetrahedron is the progenitor of a lower layer, which in this case are literal geometric dimensions. The comparison to a "shadow" shows a gap in complexity between the layers, because each one is just a lower-emanation of the higher layer. This is extremely common figurative language for explaining these kinds of complexities.

Its like how a 3-dimensional person projects a 2-dimensional shadow onto a plane. Only in this case 4-D structure emits a 3-D structure; 3-D a 2-D structure; and so on. I don't see how this is difficult to grasp whatsoever, frankly.

Then why were only the next steps in her evolution (which are inside the tetrahedron) described as shadows even though they're quantitatively superior? In no part of the text whatsoever are any of the previous stages of the labyrinth even described at all let alone as shadows.

Its like how a 3-dimensional person projects a 2-dimensional shadow onto a plane. Only in this case 4-D structure emits a 3-D structure; 3-D a 2-D structure; and so on. I don't see how this is difficult to grasp whatsoever, frankly.

Except that's not even what happened here. As I already pointed out, it's actually a case of a 3-dimensional shape casting 3-dimensional "shadows." There is no difference in dimensionality here. And "this is extremely common figurative language" is not sufficient proof for scaling.

 

[Telomera]

This is the important part of my text:

"functions through a different logic while still retaining the characteristics that allow it to scale (as explained in the difference section)"

That's quite literally cherry picking and special pleading. You're acknowledging that the logic is fundamentally different, but you're also arbitrarily deciding to keep "characteristics that allow it to scale" just so you can upgrade Madoka.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Yeah whatever, if there isn’t anything more then let's wait for staff members.