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Yuta Okkotsu vs Fern (Jujutsu Kaisen vs Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End)

Sky manipulation does help in reflecting the beams so it does help him in that regard
Dude, he isn't reflecting countless, nonstop attacks, from every direction, front, top, behind, etc, that are also like 3x faster than him.
You'd be lucky if he could block even a dozen, total.
She doesnt even have curse resistance on her profile. How is she gonna survive yuta saying "get crushed"?
Ignoring the fact she does and even has an example listed on her profile showing curse res that's hundreds of times greater than the average person, so pretending she doesn't is just kind of ignorant, the fact he doesn't lead with that anyway, and if he doesn't lead with that in like, the first actual second, it's never gonna happen because she'd be so far out of range it isn't even funny?
And that's assuming the noise pollution doesn't invalidate it anyway given her attacks ain't exactly quiet.
 
Ignoring the fact she does and even has an example listed on her profile showing curse res that's hundreds of times greater than the average person, so pretending she doesn't is just kind of ignorant, the fact he doesn't lead with that anyway, and if he doesn't lead with that in like, the first actual second, it's never gonna happen because she'd be so far out of range it isn't even funny?
And that's assuming the noise pollution doesn't invalidate it anyway given her attacks ain't exactly quiet.

He may not start with it but once he realizes he cant dodge all the zoltraak spam he's going to use it pretty quickly. Why wouldnt he be able to catch up to her? he can have rika throw him, use sky manipulation to fly to her while reflecting her attacks. And yes he can reflect those beams, ryu was able to split his granite blast into several different ones and was still unable to hit uro. Or he could use jacob's ladder to cover himself in power null to protect him from the beams while he gets close.


You'd have to prove zoltraak is consistently loud enough to the point speech cant be heard between two opponents for noise pollution to be valid. I dont remember zoltraak being deafening
 
Dude, he isn't reflecting countless, nonstop attacks, from every direction, front, top, behind, etc, that are also like 3x faster than him.
You'd be lucky if he could block even a dozen, total.

Ignoring the fact she does and even has an example listed on her profile showing curse res that's hundreds of times greater than the average person, so pretending she doesn't is just kind of ignorant, the fact he doesn't lead with that anyway, and if he doesn't lead with that in like, the first actual second, it's never gonna happen because she'd be so far out of range it isn't even funny?
And that's assuming the noise pollution doesn't invalidate it anyway given her attacks ain't exactly quiet.

While he isnt reflecting all obviously, he can still deflect some to gain some breathing room and additionally he doesnt go for ranged combat often as he prefers CQC. Additionally for the curse res it doesnt show on the profile as resistance to sleep and curse manipulation but to only sleep manip (the description says its a curse but the profile is mid so a CRT for that is probably gonna need to happen). Additionally Yuta does not need to use the sleep version of Curse speech as he can use dont move, the limited body puppetry to make her move towards him and or use get crushed to simply crush her.
 
Does Yuta even kill in-character? He didn't kill Ryu or Uro when they were out for blood. Closest case we got is Sukuna, Kenjaku, and the Cockroach, but Yuta already knew how evil those guys were. I don't see him whipping out Cursed Speech "Die" on Fern because he's slightly pressed about Danmaku.
 
Does Yuta even kill in-character? He didn't kill Ryu or Uro when they were out for blood. Closest case we got is Sukuna, Kenjaku, and the Cockroach, but Yuta already knew how evil those guys were. I don't see him whipping out Cursed Speech "Die" on Fern because he's slightly pressed about Danmaku.
I dont think yuta is going to let himself get bombarded to death while the attacker flies in the air. He may try "dont move" first though which should work since fern has sleep manip resistance not paralysis resistance.
 
I dont think yuta is going to let himself get bombarded to death while the attacker flies in the air. He may try "dont move" first though which should work since fern has sleep manip resistance not paralysis resistance.
Okay how does Yuta know to use "Don't move" instead of "Sleep"?
 
Does Yuta even kill in-character? He didn't kill Ryu or Uro when they were out for blood. Closest case we got is Sukuna, Kenjaku, and the Cockroach, but Yuta already knew how evil those guys were. I don't see him whipping out Cursed Speech "Die" on Fern because he's slightly pressed about Danmaku.
I mean, you can kinda assume he didn't kill them for the points... on the other hand Yuta isn't about killing on sight as others sooo...

Also, he can just as easily tell her to stop or any other command and from there on he can close the distance
 
How does that disprove Yuta choosing sleep manip over paralysis manip?
Because he's never done that, not even when he's not trying to kill. And the only cursed speech user who's actually done that used it on a grade 3. Is there a reason you think he'd use that specific command he's never used?
 
While he isnt reflecting all obviously, he can still deflect some to gain some breathing room and additionally he doesnt go for ranged combat often as he prefers CQC.
If he isn't reflecting all, he's not reflecting enough. Breathing room? Lad, there's gonna be a dozens per instant, as in the instant he even attempts to dodge one, 12 more take its place, and she can control each shot, he deflects them, and they 180 back because she can control their trajectory, all while more still come.

Him wanting to CQC doesn't matter, she actively avoids CQC, and it's she who has flight and the range advantage and the danmaku spam that limits his ability to even attempt to stop her from creating distance.
Additionally for the curse res it doesnt show on the profile as resistance to sleep and curse manipulation but to only sleep manip (the description says its a curse but the profile is mid so a CRT for that is probably gonna need to happen).
The sleep is due to a curse, mages resist curses so she could resist it for hours, Frieren is a stronger mage so she resisted it for like a day, and the priest is immune to curses so he just wasn't put to sleep.
You acknowledge it's a curse, why are we pretending otherwise? Yeah I'll make a CRT for it, hell it isn't even the only curse she's resisted, but let's not be ignorant.

Doesn't matter tho because Yuta doesn't lead with this it isn't even a topic of discussion.
Additionally Yuta does not need to use the sleep version of Curse speech as he can use dont move, the limited body puppetry to make her move towards him and or use get crushed to simply crush her.
Which he doesn't lead with, she has to actually hear in the first place for it to work (which she wont given the range advantage), or even just noise pollution given her attacks can explode into huge km sized blasts?
Right.. and to conclude the noise pollution argument.
All previous abilities enhanced plus:
That's literally below her range, microphones like that only increase one's vocal range to a few hundred meters, there wouldn't even need to be noise pollution for that not to work. The fact there is just invalidates it anyway.

Also are you actually suggesting Yuta leads with a cursed speech into microphone against an unknown foe?

Would also like to remind everyone Fern is almost triple his speed, casually, she's getting her stuff out first, every time.
 
The sleep is due to a curse, mages resist curses so she could resist it for hours, Frieren is a stronger mage so she resisted it for like a day, and the priest is immune to curses so he just wasn't put to sleep.
You acknowledge it's a curse, why are we pretending otherwise? Yeah I'll make a CRT for it, hell it isn't even the only curse she's resisted, but let's not be ignorant.
Im not saying otherwise, im saying that we have to look at what the wiki gives for the character, if the character does not have curse resistance then for now it will be seen as the character not having it on the wiki. Make a CRT so that Fern does have Curse resistance in the wiki

Hell if postponing the match so that Fern does actually have her profile up to date and has everything that she should have then so be it. But for now the wiki does not outline her as having curse resistance

No hard feelings but make a CRT for Fern having Curse resistance so that we dont have to be stuck in this conversation about it
 
The sleep is due to a curse, mages resist curses so she could resist it for hours, Frieren is a stronger mage so she resisted it for like a day, and the priest is immune to curses so he just wasn't put to sleep.
You acknowledge it's a curse, why are we pretending otherwise? Yeah I'll make a CRT for it, hell it isn't even the only curse she's resisted, but let's not be ignorant.
Meanwhile every sorcerer has basic curse resistance and cursed speech is still effective on them. Not even sukuna was able to fully shrug off inumaki's cursed speech and he's multiple tiers stronger than him. If you think cursed speech wouldnt work on her due to "curse resistance" then thats unfounded.

Doesn't matter tho because Yuta doesn't lead with this it isn't even a topic of discussion.
You describe:
Fern fires dozens of beams at him per second. These beams are faster than him and pack a punch. He's also seeing her flying up in the air away from him. And you think he isnt going to resort to his 5 mins mode to use his copied cts?
Which he doesn't lead with, she has to actually hear in the first place for it to work (which she wont given the range advantage), or even just noise pollution given her attacks can explode into huge km sized blasts?
Does fern fly as fast as her attack speed? If its even near her physical movement which is average human, then yuta would have already assessed he needs to not allow her to make too much distance before she reaches too high and would either:
Use rika to launch him up
Fly up with sky manipulation(though i concede this wouldnt work but he would simply go to another option)
Use jacob's ladder to power null the beams while rika brings him
or use cursed speech before she exists his range.

If her flight is as fast as her attack speed none of this matters though.

Also are you actually suggesting Yuta leads with a cursed speech into microphone against an unknown foe?

Would also like to remind everyone Fern is almost triple his speed, casually, she's getting her stuff out first, every time.
Attack speed and reaction sure. But im not arguing a quick draw. Im arguing that yuta will quickly assess what his options are and act accordingly.
 
Uh, she's actually withstood gravity manip before from someone who far outclasses her and it didn't kill her
He may not start with it but once he realizes he cant dodge all the zoltraak spam he's going to use it pretty quickly.
If he doesn't start with it, he loses.
By the time he realizes he should've, she's already in the stratosphere and he's being carpet bombed.
Why wouldnt he be able to catch up to her?
3x faster than him, danmaku, and hilariously outranges.
he can have rika throw him,
And then he gets shot down by 100 attacks. And being thrown isn't going to magically make him faster.
use sky manipulation to fly to her while reflecting her attacks.
About 3x slower, and he literally can't reflect all her attacks, characters who are triple Yuta's speed can't even reflect or block all her attacks, her whole gimmick is overwhelming from all sides at such a speed people can't keep up.
And yes he can reflect those beams, ryu was able to split his granite blast into several different ones and was still unable to hit uro.
Bad example.
She not only fires way more, but they're also way faster than Ryu.

So no, he can't, he never reflected dozens of attacks at a constant rate (tbh dozens is misleading, given her speed gap, it's gonna be more like 40, and quickly increase exponentially due to the gap) all at once which can be controlled freely (meaning even if he does reflect it, they just turn back around), all much faster than him anyway.
Or he could use jacob's ladder to cover himself in power null to protect him from the beams while he gets close.
The beams actually pierce protection.
It's mentioned on Frieren's and the magic page (which is linked on Fern's as stuff she has). Not withstanding she's way faster so, ya know. Also she can just move further away so he can never get close enough?
You'd have to prove zoltraak is consistently loud enough to the point speech cant be heard between two opponents for noise pollution to be valid. I dont remember zoltraak being deafening
Dude, it could be as quiet as someone just talking, and it's already an issue at a handful of meters away.
Also, the fact that if they're not nullified


Big boom
Im not saying otherwise, im saying that we have to look at what the wiki gives for the character, if the character does not have curse resistance then for now it will be seen as the character not having it on the wiki. Make a CRT so that Fern does have Curse resistance in the wiki
"I'm not saying otherwise but actually am".
Hell if postponing the match so that Fern does actually have her profile up to date and has everything that she should have then so be it. But for now the wiki does not outline her as having curse resistance
If I overhaul Fern it's not gonna be a day or two, it's gonna be done right and probably take a month, ya know I was more concerned with finishing he JoJo one but what's an extra few months ig.
No hard feelings but make a CRT for Fern having Curse resistance so that we dont have to be stuck in this conversation about it
Ya know the ****** up thing is this isn't even an argument either way.
Yuta doesn't lead with it. And he's not going to be able to anyway given Fern is triple his speed, avoids CQC at all costs, actively creates distance against foes she outranges, and noise pollution is going to invalidate it anyway, all of which is going to happen before Yuta even considers this an option.
h
 
Big boom

"I'm not saying otherwise but actually am".

If I overhaul Fern it's not gonna be a day or two, it's gonna be done right and probably take a month, ya know I was more concerned with finishing he JoJo one but what's an extra few months ig.

Ya know the ****** up thing is this isn't even an argument either way.
Yuta doesn't lead with it. And he's not going to be able to anyway given Fern is triple his speed, avoids CQC at all costs, actively creates distance against foes she outranges, and noise pollution is going to invalidate it anyway, all of which is going to happen before Yuta even considers this an option.
h
I mean I could help with the Frieren thing if your busy

but yeah curse speech likely isnt gonna be as much of a factor
 
Meanwhile every sorcerer has basic curse resistance and cursed speech is still effective on them. Not even sukuna was able to fully shrug off inumaki's cursed speech and he's multiple tiers stronger than him. If you think cursed speech wouldnt work on her due to "curse resistance" then thats unfounded.
I'd think it wouldn't work because she can resist it magnitudes better than other characters who already resist curses but ya know
Fern fires dozens of beams at him per second. These beams are faster than him and pack a punch. He's also seeing her flying up in the air away from him. And you think he isnt going to resort to his 5 mins mode to use his copied cts?
I think he doesn't have a choice, she's faster than him, she's getting way more attacks off, she can attack and fly simultaneously. The fact he even has to realize that is already a window of time she gets a handful of actions off.
And that's IF he sees her flying away anyway given the huge AOE.
Does fern fly as fast as her attack speed?
Modern Fern should be about that yeah.
If its even near her physical movement which is average human,
It isn't.
then yuta would have already assessed he needs to not allow her to make too much distance before she reaches too high and would either:
It isn't, idk why this was even a thought that crossed your mind, why would magic be as slow as her without magic?
Use rika to launch him up
Not as fast as her, still has to deal with danmaku.
Fly up with sky manipulation(though i concede this wouldnt work but he would simply go to another option)
As above.
Use jacob's ladder to power null the beams while rika brings him
The beams actually have res to stuff designed to nullify them.
Also isn't that CE null? Fern doesn't use CE, and we sure as hell don't equalize them.
Also again mind you, numerous every instance at speeds he can barely recat to.
or use cursed speech before she exists his range.
Unless the giant explosions compromise that or she does so before he decides to do that.
If her flight is as fast as her attack speed none of this matters though.
I mean given we're being ignorant and whatnot, that's what the profile says ig
Attack speed and reaction sure. But im not arguing a quick draw. Im arguing that yuta will quickly assess what his options are and act accordingly.
And she wouldn't? In the time it takes him to even think of what to do, she's already done 3 actions.
Mind you the danmaku is 1 action itself, the fact she can do it simutaneously rapid fire is a notable trait.
Whats this sequence from? I wanna see the context for why she flew way up there.

From a fight with some demons?
The scan even has the context? She flew up high enough so her foes couldn't react to her attacks? Frieren literally tells you why she did it.
This is something she does multiple times throughout the manga, does it against Solitar, does it against an assassin, technically more but those other ones arent tens of km away.
 
From a fight with some demons?
The scan even has the context? She flew up high enough so her foes couldn't react to her attacks? Frieren literally tells you why she did it.
This is something she does multiple times throughout the manga, does it against Solitar, does it against an assassin, technically more but those other ones arent tens of km away.
I just checked the chapter.
Fern did not see the demon and immediately fly kilometers away like you're suggesting she will do here. She did that because of the fog which made her unable to sense the demon's attacks and because the fog also acted to alert the demon of her attacks allowing them to block it.

I also just skimmed the solitar fight. Fern shot her from maximum range as a sneak attack, to make sure she didnt sense it coming after she thought fern was dead. When she first encountered he while she flew it was not nearly at such heights that was first presented. It may not be in character for yuta to just look at his opponent and say die first thing but is it actually in character for fern to look at her opponent and fly kilometers away? From the three presented examples she had actual reasons to do so for two of them(idk which chapter she fights this assassin), reasons she wouldnt have with yuta. Meanwhile yuta has a reason to use cursed speech due to the dozens of zoltraaks that are faster than him per second.
 
I just checked the chapter.
Fern did not see the demon and immediately fly kilometers away like you're suggesting she will do here. She did that because of the fog which made her unable to sense the demon's attacks and because the fog also acted to alert the demon of her attacks allowing them to block it.

I also just skimmed the solitar fight. Fern shot her from maximum range as a sneak attack, to make sure she didnt sense it coming after she thought fern was dead. When she first encountered he while she flew it was not nearly at such heights that was first presented. It may not be in character for yuta to just look at his opponent and say die first thing but is it actually in character for fern to look at her opponent and fly kilometers away? From the three presented examples she had actual reasons to do so for two of them(idk which chapter she fights this assassin), reasons she wouldnt have with yuta. Meanwhile yuta has a reason to use cursed speech due to the dozens of zoltraaks that are faster than him per second.
Wouldnt change much tbh, if it seems consistent that Fern would go for range and dip out as fast as she can to do range spam then she will likely start off with that. especially since shes like Mach 7 w magic so she's zooming out of the place
 
Wouldnt change much tbh, if it seems consistent that Fern would go for range and dip out as fast as she can to do range spam then she will likely start off with that. especially since shes like Mach 7 w magic so she's zooming out of the place
It does change alot though. The amount of range she decides to create is the difference on if she's in the range of yuta's win con.

If she does this (when she's not sneak attacking an opponent that thinks she's dead) Yuta can still tell her to get crushed.
 
Yeah honestly seeing that there is a good case for Fern might vote for her

Additionally might work on a CRT for the verse/characters if its missing stuff like the resistance to curse manipulation
 
I just checked the chapter.
Fern did not see the demon and immediately fly kilometers away like you're suggesting she will do here.
Of course she didn't, she couldn't untill she got a chance to, a chance she'd have right away here because her foe is slow af compared to her and lacks the means to actually prevent her from doing what she wants.
She did that because of the fog which made her unable to sense the demon's attacks and because the fog also acted to alert the demon of her attacks allowing them to block it.
And Yuta has sensing and deflection does he not? If you're gonna argue the long range mage who always stays just out of her foe's range if possible won't actually do so because "she only went like 20km because of this", that actually still applies here.
So what's her go to against characters that can sense and block her attacks?
You guessed it, you even elaborated.
I also just skimmed the solitar fight. Fern shot her from maximum range as a sneak attack, to make sure she didnt sense it coming after she thought fern was dead.
Please for the love of god don't say skimmed. I can't take you seriously, you legit just outed yourself in ignorance anyway by saying Sol thought she was dead.
You say sneak attack while ignoring why it worked to begin with, that being "attack from a distance your foe cant sense or react to you". And why did she do it? So Sol couldn't react to it, because she was out of Sol's range.

And no, Sol knew Fern was alive, in fact she had already beat the shit out of both Fern and Stark together previously, and she knew that were out there still because El Dorado was undone. She just lied to Frieren about them being dead to piss her off. Fern simply got the attack off because she was out of Sol's detection range, so she couldn't react in time.
When she first encountered he while she flew it was not nearly at such heights that was first presented. It may not be in character for yuta to just look at his opponent and say die first thing but is it actually in character for fern to look at her opponent and fly kilometers away?
If possible yeah. She tries to stay out of her foe's range, that isn't always possible if she's blindsided or fighting characters with even greater range than her own, but if given the chance, that's her go to. Saves on mana from making shields, puts her at safety, she's weak against CQC fighters such as assassins as they usually hold stat advantage in physicals, etc.
From the three presented examples she had actual reasons to do so for two of them(idk which chapter she fights this assassin), reasons she wouldnt have with yuta.
She'd have even more with Yuta actually, she's been trained to stay out of range of CQC fighters as much as possible. Straight up never let them get close to her type deal, otherwise she'd die, is what she's been taught.
Meanwhile yuta has a reason to use cursed speech due to the dozens of zoltraaks that are faster than him per second.
And Fern has reason to do the thing she does constantly, I gave you examples of kms, but her creating distance and flying away? Happens almost every fight she's ever been in, the demon and sol fight just happen to be the biggest examples that eclipse Yuta's range by literal 100x tho, but you could just read the manga or watch the anime to see how she usually opts to go ranged.

But nah, your argument is legit, "Yuta uses cursed speech to-", when the battlefield is gonna be constantly carpet bombed so have fun hearing what's being said.
You assume he can do this despite a hefty speed gap giving her ample time to react to and even retaliate accordingly to anything he attempts to do, and all while he still has to deal with countless attacks that might even one shot him if she decides to damage boost before he can go max output, which you'd know if you just skimmed Sol's fight, that shit is hefty boost.
You mentioned Ladder but that only works on CE, which isn't equalized to mana, and her attacks have piercing to that stuff anyway by 1 layer, which is, in fact, listed on the magic page.
And the rest doesn't even make sense because she's just so much faster than him that any other argument doesn't really work.
 
TOf course she didn't, she couldn't untill she got a chance to, a chance she'd have right away here because her foe is slow af compared to her and lacks the means to actually prevent her from doing what she wants.
And Yuta has sensing and deflection does he not? If you're gonna argue the long range mage who always stays just out of her foe's range if possible won't actually do so because "she only went like 20km because of this", that actually still applies here.
So what's her go to against characters that can sense and block her attacks?
You guessed it, you even elaborated.
You argued that he cant block it or deflect it though, so is she gonna see an opponent thats getting overwhelmed by her zoltraak spam and still decide to go 20km away? I also admitted that he cant deflect or block it.

And no, Sol knew Fern was alive, in fact she had already beat the shit out of both Fern and Stark together previously, and she knew that were out there still because El Dorado was undone. She just lied to Frieren about them being dead to piss her off. Fern simply got the attack off because she was out of Sol's detection range, so she couldn't react in time.
I may have been wrong about soltiar thinking fern is dead but the point is that she only sniped her from kms away as a sneak attack not when she first encountered her face to face. She did also create distance there by flying, but not nearly as much as when she sniped her. Both against solitar and against the demon, the examples given of her creating kilometers of distance are examples where her opponent already showed her they can deal with her standard attacks. Yuta cannot do this.
If possible yeah. She tries to stay out of her foe's range, that isn't always possible if she's blindsided or fighting characters with even greater range than her own, but if given the chance, that's her go to. Saves on mana from making shields, puts her at safety, she's weak against CQC fighters such as assassins as they usually hold stat advantage in physicals, etc.

She'd have even more with Yuta actually, she's been trained to stay out of range of CQC fighters as much as possible. Straight up never let them get close to her type deal, otherwise she'd die, is what she's been taught.

And Fern has reason to do the thing she does constantly, I gave you examples of kms, but her creating distance and flying away? Happens almost every fight she's ever been in, the demon and sol fight just happen to be the biggest examples that eclipse Yuta's range by literal 100x tho, but you could just read the manga or watch the anime to see how she usually opts to go ranged.

But nah, your argument is legit, "Yuta uses cursed speech to-", when the battlefield is gonna be constantly carpet bombed so have fun hearing what's being said.
You assume he can do this despite a hefty speed gap giving her ample time to react to and even retaliate accordingly to anything he attempts to do, and all while he still has to deal with countless attacks that might even one shot him if she decides to damage boost before he can go max output, which you'd know if you just skimmed Sol's fight, that shit is hefty boost.
You mentioned Ladder but that only works on CE, which isn't equalized to mana, and her attacks have piercing to that stuff anyway by 1 layer, which is, in fact, listed on the magic page.
And the rest doesn't even make sense because she's just so much faster than him that any other argument doesn't really work.
I did watch the anime but havent read the manga, and im not denying she will create range, what im questioning is if this range will be kilometers away at first sight against an opponent that cant deflect or block her standard attacks. Anyways you convinced me yuta doesnt have a wincon, voting fern.
 
You argued that he cant block it or deflect it though, so is she gonna see an opponent thats getting overwhelmed by her zoltraak spam and still decide to go 20km away? I also admitted that he cant deflect or block it.
Yep because he's blocking "some" and tanking the others, right? Even if he's going to get chipped eventually, why risk it?
She's fast enough to get away, she knows to get away from CQC fighters (especially after Frieren just recently explained as much to her), as she's been taught any warrior worth a damn would kill her instantly if she got close to them, even a few tens meters.
I may have been wrong about soltiar thinking fern is dead but the point is that she only sniped her from kms away as a sneak attack not when she first encountered her face to face.
Of course she didn't, she was with Stark? And was protecting a caravan? She literally couldn't run away, it'd defeat her whole goal of "stall this demon and don't let her encroach the civs".
Man this is why you don't skim shit.
She did also create distance there by flying, but not nearly as much as when she sniped her.
Well yuh huh, she couldn't? She was keeping her there so she wouldn't go after Frieren and the civs or interfere with bro.
Both against solitar and against the demon, the examples given of her creating kilometers of distance are examples where her opponent already showed her they can deal with her standard attacks. Yuta cannot do this.
If Yuta can't do anything he dies so what are you even attempting to argue here?
I did watch the anime but havent read the manga, and im not denying she will create range, what im questioning is if this range will be kilometers away at first sight against an opponent that cant deflect or block her standard attacks. Anyways you convinced me yuta doesnt have a wincon, voting fern.
It isn't always KM, it's just "outside her foe's range", in this case it's hundreds of meters to like a km. In cases where it needs to be km, it will be kms, in case where it's like 50m, it'll be like 60m, Yuta is in the "kms" though. She usually figures it out as she goes tho given she attacks and flies simultaneously, like she's only gonna stop when Yuta stops.
 
I was arguing that what is likely to happen given her past actions and the information available to her, fern will fly above yuta and bombard him with her standard zoltraak. Since the zoltraaks are more than twice his speed, firing at the dozens per second and can track him he wont be able dodge or deflect this. Hence fern wont decide to go kms away and will still be in the effective range of cursed speech, and yuta who is still getting bombarded will be able to hang on long enough to summon a megaphone and yell something since he has higher durability than her attacks plus healing and fern wont have a reason to increase the density of her zoltraak. But since a standard megaphone is lower than a standard explosion (since yuta is on the ground and not flying the zoltraaks will be hitting the ground hence making alot of noise) it wont reach anyways. Or she could just fly away from the sound, either way you convinced me she wont get taken out by cursed speech(which is the only thing he can use to really affect her) so she stomps.
 
The arguments in Fern’s favor don’t seem particularly convincing.

It’d be appreciated if people knowledgeable about Frieren could provide a scan showing how many beams Fern often fires at once, and how continuously she can do so, to get a better sense of what Yuta is up against.

Some of Yuta’s wincons would be: JL, DE, Sky Manipulation, and Cursed Speech.

Considering the difference in AP and CE reserves while Rika is fully manifested, Cursed Speech could eliminate the threat of Fern’s range by it stopping her incoming beams. If the situation becomes dire, Sky Manipulation would also allow Yuta to deflect attacks and camouflage within the sky to get close to Fern and launch a sneak attack.

Yuta executing his domain after approaching Fern via Sky Manipulation is also unavoidable.
 
Some of Yuta’s wincons would be: JL, DE, Sky Manipulation, and Cursed Speech.
This is wrong.

Jacob's Ladder only works on Cursed Spirits. Sky Manipulation is too small of a range to work. Same thing with Cursed Speech. It's range isn't big enough to catch Fern. Domain Expansion isn't big enough to catch Fern, either.
Considering the difference in AP and CE reserves while Rika is fully manifested, Cursed Speech could eliminate the threat of Fern’s range by it stopping her incoming beams. If the situation becomes dire, Sky Manipulation would also allow Yuta to deflect attacks and camouflage within the sky to get close to Fern and launch a sneak attack.
Chariot has literally already been over the fact that Yuta isn't going to deflect all of Fern's danmaku. You know, the literal dozens of dozens of beams. Miles long Clairvoyance senses whatever "sneak attack" Yuta thinks up in his head. Nothing is stopping Fern from just walking away with a 3x speed advantage. Only way Yuta can win is to start with Cursed Speech, which isn't something Yuta does because he isn't in 5 minute mode, his triumph card.
Yuta executing his domain after approaching Fern via Sky Manipulation is also unavoidable.
No, it's not 😭

Yuta still needs to, y'know, get past all the dozens of danmaku to even use Domain Expansion. He isn't doing that.
 
I was arguing that what is likely to happen given her past actions and the information available to her, fern will fly above yuta and bombard him with her standard zoltraak.
The fact she doesn't have much info is partially why she would create distance, she wouldn't "fly above" him, that'd require getting closer to him, the exact opposite of how she fights.

Fern doesn't use standard zoltraak's, she uses the enhanced version.
Since the zoltraaks are more than twice his speed, firing at the dozens per second and can track him he wont be able dodge or deflect this.
Did ya'll not argue he would manage to deflect at least a few? If he's shon deflecting even one she's getting tf out of there to be safe, and probably getting tf out of there anyway if her first one doesn't instantly kill him which would alert her he's built diff or isn't human.
Hence fern wont decide to go kms away and will still be in the effective range of cursed speech,
Doesn't have to be kms, just has to be out of range, whether that is kms or just hundreds of meters, she can figure out on the fly, as she flies.
Also bro cursed speech kinda sucks, her attacks explode too. They usually don't because defense magic has runes that unravel enemy magic and undoes them so they fizzle out, but Yuta doesn't have that, they're gonna either pierce through him, of he's durable enough to tank some so they'll explode (kinda like how dbz ki attacks explode when they hit something that they dont just eat), and at that point, he ain't speaking louder than a giant ass explosion.
since he has higher durability than her attacks plus healing and fern wont have a reason to increase the density of her zoltraak.
The fact he didn't die from the first dozen is literally reason enough?
Like you LITERALLY explained why she would in the same sentence you said she wouldn't.

It’d be appreciated if people knowledgeable about Frieren could provide a scan showing how many beams Fern often fires at once, and how continuously she can do so, to get a better sense of what Yuta is up against.
Literally the first post,
Some of Yuta’s wincons would be: JL, DE, Sky Manipulation, and Cursed Speech.
Jl does literally nothing, it only works on CE according to the profile.
DE isn't a lead, and lacks the range Fern has so even if he wanted to use it she'd be long gone, Sky manipulation isn't stopping danmaku from every direction far faster than he is, and cursed speech is kinda shitty when even just a big noise invalidates it
Considering the difference in AP and CE reserves while Rika is fully manifested,
Damage Boost that enables one shotting characters that can otherwise invalidate her attacks
Cursed Speech could eliminate the threat of Fern’s range by it stopping her incoming beams.
3x faster, countless beams, can control them even after they're fired, they can explode anyway with km AOE.
If the situation becomes dire, Sky Manipulation would also allow Yuta to deflect attacks and camouflage within the sky to get close to Fern and launch a sneak attack.
Fern has 20km clairvoyance, he isn't sneak attacking anyone or anything.
Yuta executing his domain after approaching Fern via Sky Manipulation is also unavoidable.
You seem to forget she massively outranges him and is also multiple times faster than him.
 
This is wrong.

Jacob's Ladder only works on Cursed Spirits.
This is also wrong. Jacob’s Ladder is the max output version of Technique Extinguishment which shuts off Jujutsu in JJK. This includes, Cursed Tools, Innate Techniques and Curse Techniques. It also does wipe out Cursed Spirits.

If Yuta has no win con then this may be a stomp. Guess I’ll equalise speed
 
This is also wrong. Jacob’s Ladder is the max output version of Technique Extinguishment which shuts off Jujutsu in JJK. This includes, Cursed Tools, Innate Techniques and Curse Techniques. It also does wipe out Cursed Spirits.
It isn't just Cursed Spirits, but it is CE.
If Yuta has no win con then this may be a stomp.
He has winconditions, he's just not getting them off before Fern gets her's off. Kinda just how matches work.
Guess I’ll equalise speed
Dude is not equalizing speed 100 posts in because bro is losing.
 
He has winconditions, he's just not getting them off before Fern gets her's off. Kinda just how matches work.

Dude is not equalizing speed 100 posts in because bro is losing.
From the way points have been presented it looks like he can’t do anything.

I’m equalising speed because Yuta doesn’t seem to have a chance. Like from what I’ve heard, match starts and he gets shot to death from 20km away.
 
Speed equalized does nothing. Fern just does the same thing as before, but slower.
 
Im voting Yuta, starting distance is 10 meters, Fern having range advantage gives her nothing here, she wont be able to utilize it effectively, Yuta already fought opponents with similiar attack patterns(Ryu), superior Ap, way more abilities and tons of versatility unlike fern
Yuta goes for cqc, tanks and regens through any and all of her tanks, then breaks her barriers with physical strikes and kills her, if needed just forces restrains her with partially manifested Rika
If he somehow gets overwhelmed, he puts the ring on, pops domain and Fern is getting fried by sure hit Jacob's ladder/killed by Thin ice breaker that can bypass defenses, or just curbstomped by Rika and Yuta's amped physicals from 2 sides.
 
From the way points have been presented it looks like he can’t do anything.
He has options, they just aren't gonna happen before she does her own, which is why she wins.
If he did his wincons first, he would win, that's legit just how matches go.
I’m equalising speed because Yuta doesn’t seem to have a chance. Like from what I’ve heard, match starts and he gets shot to death from 20km away.
She has to actually move that distance, that's his chance, he has to play his cards right, will he? Probably not he's being carpet bombed as she moves, but it is what it is. Idk what you want me to tell you here? "She wins so he loses, so let's handicap her instead", ain't the play, at that point why even make the match? At that point why not handicap Yuta too, make it so he doesn't have CE?
If a character has an advantage that enables them to win, you don't take it away because "oh the other dude is losing now", like hypothetically if the tables turn and Yuta starts winning now, you gonna remove the thing that gives him an edge so it 180's again? I would expect so given you're attempting to do it now.

It makes no sense, if you aren't satisfied with the outcome, don't make the match in the first place just to change it after wasting everyone's time for 100 posts, you should've equalized speed from the first few posts in, not after the match is decided.
 
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