Deactivating Anti-Hypertime annihilation mechanism limiter... | Sonic Cosmology Downgrade Part ?: Hypertimelines

[KLOL506]

To be honest, I don't know. I saw it mentioned in a thread or two, but I've never heard of an actual written rule about it.

It's in our Editing Rules section.

• Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements from them that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable.
  • When a statement from a character, guidebook, or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used. For example, if an author says that a character from his work is incapable of shattering planets, even though it has destroyed galaxies on-screen, we will always go with the latter, rather than the former. The statement needs to be consistent with what has been revealed within the fictional franchise itself. Otherwise, it will be considered invalid.
  • Author statements will only be accepted when they clarify what has been shown or implied in the series itself, and will be rejected when they contradict what has been shown to the audience. Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate.
  • Also, generally try to avoid scaling between different fictions via author statements about one character being comparable with another. It will usually be very uninformed assumptions, or hyperbole, and even if both stories have the same author, the portrayal of the different characters' power in relation to each other may still contradict these statements.

Offsite rules as well.

"Do not contact or ask battleboarding questions to the authors of various works on social media, especially not in a manner that pesters or harasses them. They are often bombarded by numerous questions from fans, and thus are rarely interested in giving a serious response. In addition, the statements they give to appease users are often contradictory to the feats in the stories of the works they have written. Thus, it is frowned upon to bother them over these topics."

 

[Theuser789]

Yeah. Read again what I wrote, space-time is already a totality. Adding 'all' is just a way of emphasizing that totality; it’s a redundant specification.

You can destroy a totality without needing to break it into infinite pieces.

Sonic's multiverse is infinite, so Time Eater destroyed an infinity. You can't argue out of this.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Never is it said base Sonic restores all of space time, he restores enough to recover the emeralds and his friends and then jumps to the final battle. The chaos emeralds are what finished the job according to Gene 3DS. Time Eater affecting all of space time is said in the same TailsTube where it’s noted that space consists of endless possibilities, possibilities being alternate dimensions, so Time Eater did affect the entire multiverse according to that.

So I guess space-time just magically reassembled itself on its own from a state of destruction where time cannot flow anymore.

Yeah, that sounds super believable.

Sonic's multiverse is infinite, so Time Eater destroyed an infinity. You can't argue out of this.

Okay??????? Like, how is that even relevant to my point?

 

[KLOL506]

Is there any form of higher causality that encompasses the multiverse?

@Theuser789 @NeonTxme @Omegabronic @CloverDragon03 @Eseseso @Starbrand_Fan @Maverick_Zero_X @Starter_Pack Help with this question would be appreciated.

 

[Mythic381]

Is there any form of higher causality that encompasses the multiverse?

As in something directly stated? No.

 

[JJSliderman]

So I guess space-time just magically reassembled itself on its own from a state of destruction where time cannot flow anymore.

Yeah, that sounds super believable.

No?

I mean, yes time can restore itself to a degree, the big thing though was the chaos emeralds, something Tails noted would be invaluable in the full restoration of space time implicitly in the console game and DIRECTLY in 3DS.

 

[Theuser789]

@Theuser789 @NeonTxme @Omegabronic @CloverDragon03 @Eseseso @Starbrand_Fan @Maverick_Zero_X @Starter_Pack Help with this question would be appreciated.

The best thing would be The End of Time tunnel. It still exists after the Time Eater destroys all of time and space, and it still has its own flow of time.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

No?

I mean, yes time can restore itself to a degree, the big thing though was the chaos emeralds, something Tails noted would be invaluable in the full restoration of space time implicitly in the console game and DIRECTLY in 3DS.

Send the scan. I'm pretty sure the emeralds only were invaluable because the Time Eater is a threat that Sonic cannot defeat in base form, not because he is gonna restore all of time with it.

 

[JJSliderman]

Send the scan. I'm pretty sure the emeralds only were invaluable because the Time Eater is a threat that Sonic cannot defeat in base form, not because he is gonna restore all of time with it.

Here

 

[KLOL506]

The best thing would be The End of Time tunnel. It still exists after the Time Eater destroys all of time and space, and it still has its own flow of time.

@Firestorm808

 

[Starsprite53]

The best thing would be The End of Time tunnel. It still exists after the Time Eater destroys all of time and space, and it still has its own flow of time.

Special stages and movie verse aren't erased and we literally see objects from other periods of time appearing in the stage, plus it's getting damaged overtime, aligning with what Tails said: Modern Tails: But the more your monster tears through the timeline, the more damage you do to it!

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Here

That’s basically what I said, the reason the group needs the Chaos Emeralds is to defeat the Time Eater, since he’s far stronger than base Sonic.

That's a Chaos Emerald!
That monster sure didn't like that Emerald!
The Chaos Emeralds are more powerful when they're together, so...
We need to collect all seven of them!
Once we collect the Chaos Emeralds we'll use them to defeat that monster...
And then we can restore the world to the way it was before!

If the Time Eater isn’t defeated first, time can’t be restored, because he’ll just keep sending zones into the white void.

The way Sonic restores time is by running through the stages again, reestablishing the timeline.

Anyway, I think I’ve contributed enough. I’ll leave it to the staff to make whatever decision they think is best.

 

[JJSliderman]

That’s basically what I said, the reason the group needs the Chaos Emeralds is to defeat the Time Eater, since he’s far stronger than base Sonic.



If the Time Eater isn’t defeated first, time can’t be restored, because he’ll just keep sending zones into the white void.

The way Sonic restores time is by running through the stages again, reestablishing the timeline.

Anyway, I think I’ve contributed enough. I’ll leave it to the staff to make whatever decision they think is best.

Also ignoring that Tails says they’ll restore the timeline after defeating time eater, and also how the chaos emeralds act as the source of vitality for all living things to further back up them being used for restoration.

 

[Omegabronic]

Special stages and movie verse aren't erased

Yes they were, we are literally verbatim stated as much, all of it was destroyed

and we literally see objects from other periods of time appearing in the stage, plus it's getting damaged overtime,

None of the links prove the "overtime" assertion

and the objects that appear are from the moments in time Sonic restored... so it proves nothing

aligning with what Tails said: Modern Tails: But the more your monster tears through the timeline, the more damage you do to it!

They are talking about the Hypertime here, considering how the stages in white space already are other timelines

Plus... as User said, the Time Eater sent Blaze to Crisis City even before doing any damage to the timeline at all, so it doesn't even matter

 

[Omegabronic]

That’s basically what I said, the reason the group needs the Chaos Emeralds is to defeat the Time Eater, since he’s far stronger than base Sonic.



If the Time Eater isn’t defeated first, time can’t be restored, because he’ll just keep sending zones into the white void.

The way Sonic restores time is by running through the stages again, reestablishing the timeline.

Anyway, I think I’ve contributed enough. I’ll leave it to the staff to make whatever decision they think is best.

Nope, they say that with the Emeralds they can restore things, after beating the Time Eater

Again, already accepted as well

 

[ShakeResounding]

So I guess space-time just magically reassembled itself on its own from a state of destruction where time cannot flow anymore.

Yeah, that sounds super believable.

Time is indicated to heal itself within Shadow Gens, it just needed assistance from Classic/Modern in doing so because it was erased (noted by Omega's dialogue in the White Space Hub where he notes the Sonics are restoring time) and for Black Doom to stop his meddling. So yeah... that's kinda what the game says happened lmao

 

[Eseseso]

Kind of feels like the goalposts for a hypertimeline are being constantly moved by the OP's side.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I recommend making summary posts, SHUTTING THE **** UP WHEN THE OTHER SIDE DROPS THEIRS, and calling in a few more mods to see what's going down.

It's now 11 pages, congratulations.

 

[Qawsedf234]

To my knowledge, only if it's a leading question. Sonic Twitter often puts descriptions on their images that add context to what it indicates.

That is correct. If an author just gives information then it wouldn't break any rules.

No, like I said, rejected threads are closed outright, no grace period for them. Though Qawsedf agreeing with OP complicates things.

3:1 is still enough to reject tbf. I think overall there's no any new information to be gleaned from the thread.

so should the generations stuff and sonic prime examples be removed from the blog since they don't count

In my mind Prime should still be removed. Generations is evidence for the hypertimeline since it features Solaris' time stream returning which is where the hypertimeline comes from.

If you meant the non-Solaris stuff then I would say no. It should be listed as supporting evidence rather than primary evidence in my view though.

 

[Starsprite53]

Yes they were, we are literally verbatim stated as much, all of it was destroyed

They weren't, you literally acess them through warp rings and they aren't in white space neither.

None of the links prove the "overtime" assertion

and the objects that appear are from the moments in time Sonic restored... so it proves nothing

I really don't care if you keep saying "no it's not" when you don't give a reason why they aren't.
And the thing you said doesn't help your case at all with arguing The end of time is a higher dimension of time.

They are talking about the Hypertime here,

Prove it, we have two statements of a single dimension of time.

considering how the stages in white space already are other timelines

They aren't, Sonic 4 and Sonic speed simulator say otherwise.

Plus... as User said, the Time Eater sent Blaze to Crisis City even before doing any damage to the timeline at all, so it doesn't even matter

Already debunked that.

 

[Theuser789]

I recommend making summary posts, SHUTTING THE **** UP WHEN THE OTHER SIDE DROPS THEIRS, and calling in a few more mods to see what's going down.

It's now 11 pages, congratulations.

I will wait for the opposition to make theirs first, since their arguments have shifted completely since the OP. Or we can just wait for the grace period to end, too.

 

[Theuser789]

If you meant the non-Solaris stuff then I would say no. It should be listed as supporting evidence rather than primary evidence in my view though.

I am almost certain the blog already did. If it isn't too much of a bother, do you still agree with the OP? Or have the recent arguments involving Time Eater affecting Crisis City change your mind about it?

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

Not that it means much, but after reading both sides, the opposition makes more sense to me so I disagree.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Also ignoring that Tails says they’ll restore the timeline after defeating time eater,

I'm not ignoring that.

If the Time Eater isn’t defeated first, time can’t be restored, because he’ll just keep sending zones into the white void.

and also how the chaos emeralds act as the source of vitality for all living things to further back up them being used for restoration.

You never sent that in the first place, so IDK how do you pretend me to know about it.

Time is indicated to heal itself within Shadow Gens, it just needed assistance from Classic/Modern in doing so because it was erased (noted by Omega's dialogue in the White Space Hub where he notes the Sonics are restoring time) and for Black Doom to stop his meddling. So yeah... that's kinda what the game says happened lmao

Key point: "it just needed assistance from Classic/Modern in doing so because it was erased"

That’s basically what I’m saying, the fact that Sonic helps time heal by running through the zones.

Kind of feels like the goalposts for a hypertimeline are being constantly moved by the OP's side.

Yeah because there are multiple fronts. The "OP side" isn't an organized group. I have my own problems with all of this.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I disagree as well for Shake and User's reasonings.

 

[Telomera]

I'm more neutral now, but still leaning towards a disagree to the OP, time being linear doesn't really make sense to some otherwise important plot points. The ending of 06 is that time was reset so it never happens and yet that's an oxymoron because it also apparently still happened at the same time with other characters still remembering what happened. I'm not sure how or why Qawsed shifted to agree.

Time potentially not being linear isn't the same as there being an entire hypertimeline of uncountably infinite snapshots of entire timelines. The latter is what this thread's about, not the linearity of time. Here, the tiering system FAQ explains a hypothetical scenario where a timeline is rewritten multiple times due to time travel. Regardless, it does not qualify for higher tiering via hypertimelines, so it's pretty clear that you can have some weird time shenanigans going on without the need for higher dimensional tiers.

 

[ShakeResounding]

In my mind Prime should still be removed. Generations is evidence for the hypertimeline since it features Solaris' time stream returning which is where the hypertimeline comes from.

If you meant the non-Solaris stuff then I would say no. It should be listed as supporting evidence rather than primary evidence in my view though.

I can alter the blog as deemed necessary, though I would advocate for Prime be shifted to supporting evidence of a possible time reversal rather than removed (which I still believe is logically inferred albeit not directly stated).

However, I'm ultimately not picky and if it's deemed that still isn't enough then I'll give it the axe.

(This will be my last comment from here to not further the bloat.)

 

[Telomera]

However, I believe this theory is contradicted by Tails saying the lifeless void is because of the Time Eater:

With the camera even showing Crisis City as an example of it.

It's not. The lifeless void is different from Crisis City being restored from nonexistence

 

[Telomera]

I'm more neutral now, but still leaning towards a disagree to the OP, time being linear doesn't really make sense to some otherwise important plot points. The ending of 06 is that time was reset so it never happens and yet that's an oxymoron because it also apparently still happened at the same time with other characters still remembering what happened. I'm not sure how or why Qawsed shifted to agree.

But does this mean you're neutral now or voting to disagree?

 

[Theuser789]

It's not. The lifeless void is different from Crisis City being restored from nonexistence

Crisis City was literally affected by the Time Eater, which is the entire point your side seems to be arguing against. It feels like you're conceding know?

 

[Theuser789]

But does this mean you're neutral now or voting to disagree?

Leans to disagree means leaning to disagree, dude.

 

[Telomera]

Crisis City was literally affected by the Time Eater, which is the entire point your side seems to be arguing against. It feels like you're conceding know?

The "entire point" my side is arguing against is the claim that Time Eater used time travel to access Crisis City and restore it after its timeline was wiped from existence, not that "Crisis City was not affected by the Time Eater." No ground has been ceded, I've been consistent in arguing against that. The "lifeless void" issue is irrelevant to that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The "entire point" my side is arguing against is the claim that Time Eater used time travel to access Crisis City and restore it after its timeline was wiped from existence, not that "Crisis City was not affected by the Time Eater." No ground has been ceded, I've been consistent in arguing against that. The "lifeless void" issue is irrelevant to that.

The entire point of your side is shifting the goalpost repeatedly to try to ensure a downgrade. This is literally what you lot have been doing for... oh, the past two hundred posts or so.

 

[KLOL506]

3:1 is still enough to reject tbf. I think overall there's no any new information to be gleaned from the thread.

Is it? I thought a 2 vote advantage wasn't enough to pass a thread to be accepted or rejected, but oh well.

Some more admin votes still couldn't hurt IMHO.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah because there are multiple fronts. The "OP side" isn't an organized group. I have my own problems with all of this.

Then make your own CRT and don't clutter this damn thread any further. This goes to all of you BTW. Your individual problems are your own, keep it as such.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I thought a 2 vote advantage wasn't enough to pass a thread to be accepted or rejected, but oh well

From how I understand it, it always goes majority vote (barring a veto), but close votes require more intensive discussions (which already has been done here)

 

[JJSliderman]

The "entire point" my side is arguing against is the claim that Time Eater used time travel to access Crisis City and restore it after its timeline was wiped from existence, not that "Crisis City was not affected by the Time Eater." No ground has been ceded, I've been consistent in arguing against that. The "lifeless void" issue is irrelevant to that.

If Time Eater affected it, this means that his ability to cross time and time travel allowed him to find crisis city and erase it, no?
Either that or erased timelines still exist in the multiverse which wasn’t really established.

 

[KLOL506]

From how I understand it, it always goes majority vote (barring a veto), but close votes require more intensive discussions (which already has been done here)

Understood. I'll just tag remaining admins then.

@Planck69 @Elizhaa @Starter_Pack @Firestorm808 @LephyrTheRevanchist

 

[Telomera]

Is there any form of higher causality that encompasses the multiverse?

I mean, there's no statement of such a thing. The closest you get to that is the fact that entire timelines are able to undergo change, but that's obviously possible without higher scaling (you can destroy or rewrite 2-C timelines without the need for any Tier 1 hypertimelines).

The way it works compared to hypertimelines is also quite different. When Mephiles's world was erased from existence, it was able to come back but only as a residual echo. If it was a hypertimeline, it would still exist in its entirety as a snapshot, but that's just not how it is. This is also supported by Gerald confirming that if Shadow were to change his past, it would also rewrite his future, and all his triumphs, all he's learned, all the good he's done he did in the timeline would cease to be as opposed to perpetually existing as a snapshot in hypertime.

In terms of actual time dimensions however, it's confirmed that there is only one dimension of time in the verse.

This was my answer to Firestorm's question, by the way.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Special stages and movie verse aren't erased and we literally see objects from other periods of time appearing in the stage, plus it's getting damaged overtime, aligning with what Tails said: Modern Tails: But the more your monster tears through the timeline, the more damage you do to it!

Completely ignoring all the statements saying that reality has been destroyed