Deactivating Anti-Hypertime annihilation mechanism limiter... | Sonic Cosmology Downgrade Part ?: Hypertimelines

[Starsprite53]

Doesn’t matter, if you get a good future for the zone the third act is always in the good version, even during the Metal race.

And how do we know he got the good future? Espacially when the good ending can still be acquired even if some zones got bad future.

 

[JJSliderman]

And how do we know he got the good future? Espacially when the good ending can still be acquired even if some zones got bad future.

No, you can’t. Getting all the time stones automatically gives you a good future, robot generators be damned.

The good ending is obviously the canon one, because no Sonic game would ever have multiple endings and have a bad one be canon, plus Little Planet is in space again and Eggman doesn’t have the time stones in the next game so it’s more likely the good ending is canon. And if the good ending is canon, that means all the futures are good because you can’t get the good ending otherwise

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

P1. If a realm persists and operates after the complete erasure of all timelines and temporal flow, yet still allows traversal, alteration, and manipulation of what were once time-embedded events, then that realm must exist outside and independently of the primary time axis.

That doesn’t make it a hypertimeline, by the way.

P2. The ITD and TEL persist and function after all timelines (space and time included) have been erased, and allow both characters and the Time Eater to manipulate events and causality in ways distinct from the erased temporal framework.

Define what this part means: 'and allow both characters and the Time Eater to manipulate events and causality in ways distinct from the erased temporal framework.'

What the Time Eater actually does during the fight is simply slow down and stop time in the area.

C. Therefore, the ITD and TEL operate within or represent a distinct temporal axis (a second time dimension / hypertime structure).

What this syllogism demonstrates is that the “End of Time” is a separate form of time, not a hypertimeline.

And it only does so if we assume that the entire continuous space-time of the multiverse is still destroyed at that point of the story, which it isn’t, and that directly contradicts the actual plot of Generations.

So basically, it doesn’t challenge the core point of my argument.

• Time was erased.
• The Time Eater still moves, manipulates, slows down time after this erasure.

Yeah, and all of this happens after Sonic has already restored life and temporal flow to all the zones present in the white void (1 | 2 | 3 | 4 etc )

Sonic’s entire mission is precisely to repair the space-time that the Time Eater destroyed.

Today is Sonic's birthday! Sonic the Hedgehog has been entertaining people and saving the world for a long time. But just as he's about to enjoy a nice relaxing day, picnicking with his friends, a mysterious new villain tears a hole in the fabric of space-time. With reality as we know it destroyed, Sonic must navigate the White Space, a strange realm between dimensions that holds the universe together. In this mysterious place, he finds doorways to familiar places and moments from the past and present. Sonic must use these doorways to determine what happened to reality, and put things back the way they were.

So there’s no such thing as a hypertime here.

Anyway, I stand firmly by my point.

In cosmological modeling, this necessitates a higher or additional temporal dimension. Whether it's a hypertime, orthotime, or anything else.

No.

 

[Theuser789]

I'm not sure how or why Qawsed shifted to agree.

Because of Gerald's theory of Mephiles not being brought back because of the Time Eater:
https://browniehideout.wordpress.co...rations-character-profiles-npc-conversations/

So you encountered a foe you don’t remember? Perhaps the damage done to the passage of time has triggered echoes of past historical alterations.…Well, I’ve only dabbled in time manipulation theory. This is just an inference based on what I’ve learned at my desk.

However, I believe this theory is contradicted by Tails saying the lifeless void is because of the Time Eater:

With the camera even showing Crisis City as an example of it.

 

[JJSliderman]

Sonic didn’t actually restore everything erased by time eater prior to the final battle, the zones we see in the game are not the only aspects erased by time eater.

 

[Starsprite53]

No, you can’t. Getting all the time stones automatically gives you a good future, robot generators be damned.

Really?

The good ending is obviously the canon one, because no Sonic game would ever have multiple endings and have a bad one be canon, plus Little Planet is in space again and Eggman doesn’t have the time stones in the next game so it’s more likely the good ending is canon. And if the good ending is canon, that means all the futures are good because you can’t get the good ending otherwise

And when did I say it isn't? See this is your problem, strawming me and add mucho texto to it as if it's a debunk.
"you can’t get the good ending otherwise" And I literally showed two evidences of you having the good ending with some zones getting bad ending and a CUTSCENE showing that present stardust was under his influence.

However, I believe this theory is contradicted by Tails saying the lifeless void is because of the Time Eater:

That's not contradiction when Shadow generations was made years after sonic generations, and you know damn well that Sega rn is trying to make sense of Sonic lore currently with adding new context or retconning stuff.

 

[JJSliderman]

Really?

And when did I say it isn't? See this is your problem, strawming me and add mucho texto to it as if it's a debunk.
"you can’t get the good ending otherwise" And I literally showed two evidences of you having the good ending with some zones getting bad ending and a CUTSCENE showing that present stardust was under his influence.

Your evidence doesn’t mean much, the game will not allow you to have bad futures and also have the good ending, both methods to get the good ending also gives you good futures in all the zones, that’s just how the game works. Unless they changed it in a rerelease.

 

[Theuser789]

That's not contradiction when Shadow generations was made years after sonic generations, and you know damn well that Sega rn is trying to make sense of Sonic lore currently with adding new context or retconning stuff.

You're right, it's not a contradiction, because Gerald is simply saying a theory he himself says is unfounded, since he doesn't know what actually happened and why everything happened. Meanwhil,e Tails knows that the monster is the real reason they're all there.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Sonic didn’t actually restore everything erased by time eater prior to the final battle, the zones we see in the game are not the only aspects erased by time eater.

The zones in the white void are fragments of the timeline that the Time Eater ripped out of space-time and drained of life.

When that thing goes through time it tears space apart, leaving the areas empty and dead and sticking them in this weird white limbo.
When it moves through time and space in that manner, the flow of time gets erased and those places get turned into pure white worlds.

Sonic’s mission is to go through those stages precisely to restore the proper flow of the timeline.

When the Sonics accelerate through time they fix space, returning color and life!

By the time the final battle happens, Sonic has already restored time to a large extent (all the zones in the white void).

The End of Time is just another zone like the others. Not a hypertimeline.

 

[MysticMania]

Really?

I know nothing about timelines and stuff so I can't comment at all but I have beaten Sonic CD a bunch, so I can vouch: Yes, getting all 7 Time Stones automatically turns every Zone's Future Acts into Good Futures. You can get the Good Ending to Sonic CD without ever interacting with the time travel mechanic at all, thus. This is the case for every single release of Sonic CD, including the most recent version in Sonic Origins.

 

[Starsprite53]

You're right, it's not a contradiction, because Gerald is simply saying a theory he himself says is unfounded, since he doesn't know what actually happened and why everything happened. Meanwhil,e Tails knows that the monster is the real reason they're all there.

You have no reason to dismiss something that's basically a wise owl for the player unless you bring a good argument.

 

[Starsprite53]

Yes, getting all 7 Time Stones automatically turns every Zone's Future Acts into Good Futures.

Actually

 

[MysticMania]

Actually

I did say "all 7 Time Stones".

 

[Theuser789]

You have no reason to dismiss something that's basically a wise owl for the player unless you bring a good argument.

Yes, so we shouldn't dismiss Tails. I am happy you finally agree.

Actually

He said ALL, dude. ALL.

 

[JJSliderman]

Actually

Can you link the part that’s actually relevant it’s kind of annoying to scroll through.

The zones in the white void are fragments of the timeline that the Time Eater ripped out of space-time and drained of life.



Sonic’s mission is to go through those stages precisely to restore the proper flow of the timeline.

By the time the final battle happens, Sonic has already restored time to a large extent (all the zones in the white void).

That’s not even like 1% of time in Sonic, they are just what the game is letting you see. All of space time was affected, which spans across infinite timelines.

The End of Time is just another zone like the others. Not a hypertimeline.

A zone that exists beyond the reach of white space, a realm that itself is a bulk space between the multiple infinite (sometimes 5-D) multiverses of Sonic.

 

[Starsprite53]

I did say "all 7 Time Stones".

When was this stated?
Also that doesn't matter when recent stuff holds priority anyways.

 

[MysticMania]

In my comment.

 

[JJSliderman]

It doesn’t really hold priority with Generations, the game that is entirely dedicated to revisiting the stages as they were in their respective games. All that matters with stardust in Gens is how it was portrayed in CD, and in CD the good future is the canon one.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

That’s not even like 1% of time in Sonic, they are just what the game is letting you see. All of space time was affected, which spans across infinite timelines.

So we’re just going to ignore what explicitly happens in the games to run with a personal headcanon?

If Sonic has to restore space-time by running through all the zones (and by the end of the game we see everything return to normal) then it necessarily follows that Sonic did, in fact, go through all the zones.

I don’t recall a single mention anywhere stating that the Time Eater ripped out infinite pieces from infinite timelines. That’s pure speculation not grounded in the actual narrative of Generations.

A zone that exists beyond the reach of white space, a realm that itself is a bulk space between the multiple infinite (sometimes 5-D) multiverses of Sonic

^ Never stated anywhere, btw. And the white space isn’t some higher-dimensional bulk, it’s just the absence of time and space. That’s all it is. It’s quite literally nothing.

 

[Theuser789]

When was this stated?
Also that doesn't matter when recent stuff holds priority anyways.

Yes, getting all 7 Time Stones automatically turns every Zone's Future Acts into Good Futures.

Read before you post, please.

 

[MysticMania]

In my comment.

I genuinely do not mean this rudely, but the "all 7 Time Stones" part of my sentence is even in the quote of my comment that you replied to.

 

[Theuser789]

I don’t recall a single mention anywhere stating that the Time Eater ripped out infinite pieces from infinite timelines.

It's literally what's accepted in the pages:

 

[Starsprite53]

Read before you post, please.

I said when was this stated, not when he stated it.

 

[Theuser789]

I said when was this stated, not when he stated it.

It's stated in the game? Star... have you genuinely never played CD?

 

[MysticMania]

I said when was this stated, not when he stated it.

This doesn't show it off the best, but I can try to record gameplay later myself, if my PC will let me.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I said when was this stated, not w

This doesn't show it off the best, but I can try to record gameplay later myself, if my PC will let me.

The game doesn't directly state that, but the point still remains and anyone who played CD knows that getting the Time Stones automatically makes all the stages the Good Future versions of them

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

It's literally what's accepted in the pages:

What’s accepted on the pages is that the Time Eater destroyed space-time, which is entirely possible to do without needing to break it into infinite pieces.

 

[JJSliderman]

So we’re just going to ignore what explicitly happens in the games to run with a personal headcanon?

If Sonic has to restore space-time by running through all the zones (and by the end of the game we see everything return to normal) then it necessarily follows that Sonic did, in fact, go through all the zones.

I don’t recall a single mention anywhere stating that the Time Eater ripped out infinite pieces from infinite timelines. That’s pure speculation not grounded in the actual narrative of Generations.

Never is it said base Sonic restores all of space time, he restores enough to recover the emeralds and his friends and then jumps to the final battle. The chaos emeralds are what finished the job according to Gene 3DS. Time Eater affecting all of space time is said in the same TailsTube where it’s noted that space consists of endless possibilities, possibilities being alternate dimensions, so Time Eater did affect the entire multiverse according to that.

^ Never stated anywhere, btw. And the white space isn’t some higher-dimensional bulk, it’s just the absence of time and space. That’s all it is. It’s quite literally nothing.

White space is said to be infinite in a Sonic Twitter post, plus it contains all the spacetime time eater erased according to lore, which would be all of space time.

 

[Robo432343]

As stated before though, that is the only evidence that fits. The other generations' stuff and Sonic Prime absolutely do not count in my mind.

so should the generations stuff and sonic prime examples be removed from the blog since they don't count
since solaris being erased from the timeline is the only evidence that qualifies for a hyper timeline

 

[Theuser789]

What’s accepted on the pages is that the Time Eater destroyed space-time, which is entirely possible to do without needing to break it into infinite pieces.

Read the link. What's accepted is that the Time Eater destroyed ALL of time and space. ALL of it.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Snip

I'm not sure if Tweets can be used on VSBW nowadays. It's kind of a gray area, I think.

 

[Starsprite53]

The game doesn't directly state that, but the point still remains and anyone who played CD knows that getting the Time Stones automatically makes all the stages the Good Future versions of them

I got the last time stone very late in the game so I didn't notice that, my bad

 

[McFriesGuy075]

I'm not sure if Tweets can be used on VSBW nowadays. It's kind of a gray area, I think.

To my knowledge, only if it's a leading question. Sonic Twitter often puts descriptions on their images that add context to what it indicates.

 

[JJSliderman]

I don’t need to use the tweet, white space is a bulk space because it exists between all dimensions and can store all the space time Time Eater erased via lore.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Never is it said base Sonic restores all of space time, he restores enough to recover the emeralds and his friends and then jumps to the final battle. The chaos emeralds are what finished the job according to Gene 3DS. Time Eater affecting all of space time is said in the same TailsTube where it’s noted that space consists of endless possibilities, possibilities being alternate dimensions, so Time Eater did affect the entire multiverse according to that.

Also for it to contain an infinite sized multiverse it would also have to be logically infinite in size, like what the Twitter says

 

[KLOL506]

Im assuming it'll take another 24 hours for the thread to be closed?

No, like I said, rejected threads are closed outright, no grace period for them. Though Qawsedf agreeing with OP complicates things.

That being said, the vote count is still 3 people disagreeing (DDM, Glass, Mav) and just one agreeing (Qawsedf).

Elizhaa, Planck, Starter are yet to respond, and Firestorm808 hasn't given any concrete vote yet, someone should focus on answering his question.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

To my knowledge, only if it's a leading question. Sonic Twitter often puts descriptions on their images that add context to what it indicates.

Actually speaking of it, is this Standard ever laid out in one of our pages?

 

[KLOL506]

I'm not sure if Tweets can be used on VSBW nowadays. It's kind of a gray area, I think.

Case-by-case basis. As long as it's not a leading question in the form of a battleboarder-esque way.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Read the link. What's accepted is that the Time Eater destroyed ALL of time and space. ALL of it.

Yeah. Read again what I wrote, space-time is already a totality. Adding 'all' is just a way of emphasizing that totality; it’s a redundant specification.

You can destroy a totality without needing to break it into infinite pieces.

Again:

If Sonic has to restore space-time by running through all the zones (and by the end of the game we see everything return to normal) then it necessarily follows that Sonic did, in fact, go through all the zones.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Actually speaking of it, is this Standard ever laid out in one of our pages?

To be honest, I don't know. I saw it mentioned in a thread or two, but I've never heard of an actual written rule about it.