Deactivating Anti-Hypertime annihilation mechanism limiter... | Sonic Cosmology Downgrade Part ?: Hypertimelines

[Telomera]

Sorry, but they are wrong. Gerald was just assuming

Gerald's assumption is an educated guess based on his study of time. It's far more plausible than your hypertimeline headcanon, and it makes far more sense for Crisis City to be an echo that was left of the erasure of Mephiles's timeline than for Eggman to specifically stop his rampage across spacetime to restore a location he didn't even know existed (when Mephiles's timeline was erased, Eggman was left with zero memory of it). It's not even an entire spacetime continuum, it's literally just a 3D city without any dimension of time, because you have to recall that everything pulled into White Space has no time until Sonic restores it.

So even if you agree that Mephiles wasn't restored by the Time Eater, Crisis City HAD to have been. Eggman sents Blaze there BEFORE destroying Time and Space.

It's an echo of time being altered to erase Mephiles's timeline from existence, Time Eater didn't restore it and it makes literally zero sense for him to go out of his way to restore a city that he didn't even have any memory of.

 

[Theuser789]

and it makes far more sense for Crisis City to be an echo that was left of the erasure of Mephiles's timeline

You would be right IF Crisis City wasn't show to be a different timeline from the 06 one that was also erased, but it is. ESP Silver being a separate Silver basically shows that they're two different things.

zero sense for him to go out of his way to restore a city that he didn't even have any memory of.

Except he already goes out of his way to send Blaze to it.

To make it clearer, I circled Crisis City from Time Eater's portal among the rest.

I feel like this should clearly show that Crisis City was restored directly by the Time Eater's involvement.

So he already selectively targeted it. Meaning your argument from incredulity doesn't work. Keep in mind that this is all BEFORE he destroys all of space and time. Meaning there can't be any "echos" because Gerald said it was caused by the DESTRUCTION of time.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

It is implied to be a time dimension as flying through it is treated as the same as flying through the end of time, even when the space-time of the rest of the multiverse was erased, making it a different time dimension than the rest of cosmology.

That's literally a non sequitur.

P1 (implicit): If a scenario is called the 'end of time' and characters 'fly through' it after the rest of spacetime has been erased, then that scenario is necessarily a distinct time dimension.
P2: Scenario X is called the 'end of time,' and characters fly through it after the rest of spacetime has been erased.
C: Therefore, X is a distinct time dimension.

In this case the leap lies in P1; there’s no justification for those two narrative conditions to necessarily imply the existence of an additional time axis.

The rest doesn’t even support the point you’re trying to defend at all.

 

[Telomera]

To make it clearer, I circled Crisis City from Time Eater's portal among the rest.

I feel like this should clearly show that Crisis City was restored directly by the Time Eater's involvement.

Time Eater opening a portal to a world doesn't mean that Time Eater was the one that actually restored it. That's a false cause fallacy, it's a stupid assumption to make.

Since it's an echo of Mephiles's erased timeline, it already existed by the time that Time Eater actually did anything.

So he already selectively targeted it. Meaning your argument from incredulity doesn't work.

No, that's also just your headcanon. It opening up portals to random places doesn't mean that he was selectively targeting anything.

 

[Theuser789]

Time Eater opening a portal to a world doesn't mean that Time Eater was the one that actually restored it. That's a false cause fallacy, it's a stupid assumption to make.

This was before he erased Time and Space. Gerald straight you says echoes were caused by the instability of time. He HAS to have erased, don't call it stupid. You're using a fallacy fallacy here.

No, that's also just your headcanon. It opening up portals to random places doesn't mean that he was selectively targeting anything.

Eggman LITERALLY says that he sent Sonic's friends through time to bait traps. Literal, BLATANT dialogue. Why would he randomly send Blaze to an erased timeline? Was he lucky in the gachapull? Or did he do the exact thing he said, laid TRAPS for Sonic?

 

[Robo432343]

No it literally doesn't??

It's taken of out-of-context. Tails was speaking about the mainline Multiverse, that has multiple alternative universes throughout the series, with the alternative realities created with every possibility of what could have happened. The total number of realities being "possibly infinite"

bro what
im not talking about the number of realities
i agree there are infinite realities but that does not change the fact that there is 1 time dimension
you know how the real world has 1 time dimension?
there is a big confusion here
you think that im saying that there is only 1 universe, im saying there is only 1 temporal dimension in sonic just like how the real world has 1 temporal dimension

 

[Telomera]

This was before he erased Time and Space. Gerald straight you says echoes were caused by the instability of time. He HAS to have erased, don't call it stupid. You're using a fallacy fallacy here.

They were "stirred up" by the instability in time. That's not the same thing. Also, why are you assuming that Time Eater didn't cause any spatiotemporal anomalies beforehand?

Eggman LITERALLY says that he sent Sonic's friends through time to bait traps. Literal, BLATANT dialogue. Why would he randomly send Blaze to an erased timeline? Was he lucky in the gachapull? Or did he do the exact thing he said, laid TRAPS for Sonic?

"He set up traps" therefore he randomly decided to restore a timeline that he had no memory of? That is some of the worst logic I've ever seen. Would it hurt to have an actual argument that's not a non-sequitur for once?

I don't even know why you're getting so hung up on this when you still have to prove that Crisis City's partial restoration (it wasn't a full timeline) was caused by time travel, which isn't even remotely implied by anything.

 

[Starsprite53]

Can the opposition stop spreading objectively false information, please?

The english version is objectively the original one;

 

[Theuser789]

They were "stirred up" by the instability in time. That's not the same thing. Also, why are you assuming that Time Eater didn't cause any spatiotemporal anomalies beforehand?

Gerald literally states and I quote: "The DAMAGE done to the time stream may be stirring past alterations". If there's no damage, then it can't be stirring anything. It was all the Time Eater. Ironically, assuming he is causing random anomalies off-screen is actual headcanon.

"He set up traps" therefore he randomly decided to restore a timeline that he had no memory of? That is some of the worst logic I've ever seen. Would it hurt to have an actual argument that's not a non-sequitur for once?

Argument from incredulity is ironically the non-sequitur here. Eggman blatantly says he picked up where to send his friends, we see ON-SCREEN he making a portal for Crisis City. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I don't even know why you're getting so hung up on this when you still have to prove that Crisis City's partial restoration (it wasn't a full timeline) was caused by time travel, which isn't even remotely implied by anything.

It was literally caused by Time Travel, it has to be caused by Time Travel because Eggman says he used its ABILITY to travel through time to undo his previous defeats. Yet again, BLATANT, LITERAL dialogue. And ESP Silver shows Crisis City is a full fledged alternative timeline, as well.

The english version is objectively the original one;

It's not. Do your research and stop spreading misinformation. Lost World is the only game Pontaff wrote as the original script.

 

[NeonTxme]

bro what
im not talking about the number of realities
i agree there are infinite realities but that does not change the fact that there is 1 time dimension
you know how the real world has 1 time dim

Why are you basing your argument on real-world physics where time is treated as a single axis alongside 3 spatial ones?

Sonic's cosmology is built around structures which behave in ways incompatible with a single temporal axis.

Let me explain why this matters: ITD explicitly exists and operates after the erasure of all space-time, yet it continues to persist and contains temporal flow distinct from the base reality.

If everything (space and time included) was destroyed, and yet this place still functions with time-like properties, then logically it must represent a separate structure of time; not just a continuation on the same axis.

Also things like the Time Eater warping / pausing / reversing the temporal flows independent of what happens in the main Multiverse and structures is evidence for a another framework (which is a second time axis or Hypertime structure where the causal progression of erased timelines is still observable and manipulable.)

That's literally a non sequitur.

P1 (implicit): If a scenario is called the 'end of time' and characters 'fly through' it after the rest of spacetime has been erased, then that scenario is necessarily a distinct time dimension.
P2: Scenario X is called the 'end of time,' and characters fly through it after the rest of spacetime has been erased.
C: Therefore, X is a distinct time dimension.

In this case the leap lies in P1; there’s no justification for those two narrative conditions to necessarily imply the existence of an additional time axis.

The rest doesn’t even support the point you’re trying to defend at all.

So you're claiming that:
"Being called 'the end of time' and having characters fly through it doesn't justify another time axis."?

You may be right if we were talking about a metaphor.

Your attack on P1 being a "leap" assumes that the conclusion relies solely on the label "end of time" and the imagery of "flying through." That's not the full picture to begin with.

Here's what your syllogism should be revised to:

P1. If a realm persists and operates after the complete erasure of all timelines and temporal flow, yet still allows traversal, alteration, and manipulation of what were once time-embedded events, then that realm must exist outside and independently of the primary time axis.

P2. The ITD and TEL persist and function after all timelines (space and time included) have been erased, and allow both characters and the Time Eater to manipulate events and causality in ways distinct from the erased temporal framework.

C. Therefore, the ITD and TEL operate within or represent a distinct temporal axis (a second time dimension / hypertime structure).

So your argument actually misrepresents the premise.

The justification does exist, and it's based on behavior:
• Time was erased.
• The Time Eater still moves, manipulates, slows down time after this erasure.
• Sonic and C. Sonic can still experience cause and effect.
• Objects from other timelines drift into the ITD, which is functionally infinite and outside the erased cosmology.

In cosmological modeling, this necessitates a higher or additional temporal dimension. Whether it's a hypertime, orthotime, or anything else.

 

[Telomera]

Gerald literally states and I quote: "The DAMAGE done to the time stream may be stirring past alterations". If there's no damage, then it can't be stirring anything. It was all the Time Eater. Ironically, assuming he is causing random anomalies off-screen is actual headcanon.

Stirring up isn't the same as creating. And the one who's making up headcanon is you here, I'd trust Gerald's statements over your hypertimeline headcanon.

Argument from incredulity is ironically the non-sequitur here. Eggman blatantly says he picked up where to send his friends, we see ON-SCREEN he making a portal for Crisis City. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

He did not say that he chose where Sonic's friends would be sent, why are you lying?

It was literally caused by Time Travel, it has to be caused by Time Travel because Eggman says he used its ABILITY to travel through time to undo his previous defeats. Yet again, BLATANT, LITERAL dialogue.

Mephiles's timeline being erased wasn't a defeat, and Eggman didn't even remember it.

 

[Robo432343]

Why are you basing your argument on real-world physics where time is treated as a single axis alongside 3 spatial ones?

because tails literally stated there is one dimension of time just like us and the existence of 1 time dimension was heavily implied by eggman

 

[JJSliderman]

because tails literally stated there is one dimension of time just like us

He said time is one dimension of reality, it doesn’t remove the possibility of hypertime being an extra dimension of reality. It’s just no verse is really going to mention hypertime as a concept because it’s pretty much a fanmade vs term. And Crisis City/Kingdom Valley being there, even if they’re echoes, means that erased timelines still exist within the multiverse and time eater’s crossing through time put him in contact with them to put them in white space, seeing as there are Iblis minions and Eggman robots specifically from ‘06 in there, meaning these locations are specifically from the Solaris crisis and not just facsimiles

 

[NeonTxme]

because tails literally stated there is one dimension of time just like us and the existence of 1 time dimension was heavily implied by eggman

...

So I'd assume you missed the very first part of my premise, Tails was explaining the ACTUAL, MAIN, Multiverse.
Which is based of a singular temporal axis + endless possiblities of alternative spaces.

The whole point of their conversation was to explain The Multiverse, a Multiverse that contains infinite possibilities. Not to examine the ENTIRE cosmology and determine if another axis exists or not.

 

[Theuser789]

Stirring up isn't the same as creating. And the one who's making up headcanon is you here, I'd trust Gerald's statements over your hypertimeline headcanon.

Did you give up on actual arguments? Gerald straight up says that the DAMAGE is what makes the "echoes" appear. No damage, no echoes. Calling it headcanon doesn't stop it from being a fact.

He did not say that he chose where Sonic's friends would be sent, why are you lying?

Yes, he did say that. He said he laid traps for Sonic. For you to lay traps, you have to send people where you put them. You can't lay a trap if you are randomly sending people to places you don't even know (supposedly). Genuinely, just concede in this point.

Mephiles's timeline being erased wasn't a defeat, and Eggman didn't even remember it.

Crisis City isn't Mephiles's timeline... and 06 was a defeat for Eggman anyways. And says who that Eggman doesn't remember it? Sonic does. Blaze (in this game, mind you) does. Eggman purposely summoned it, so he clearly does remember it.

 

[Starsprite53]

So he already selectively targeted it. Meaning your argument from incredulity doesn't work. Keep in mind that this is all BEFORE he destroys all of space and time. Meaning there can't be any "echos" because Gerald said it was caused by the DESTRUCTION of time.

You do realize that Time Eater was already tearing through stages and causing havoc across time before it supposedly "destroyed all of time", right? That was the whole reason behind Rouge and G.U.N invetigating the topic. It was doing that in the very first cutscene of Generations before he came to Sonic's party. So claiming that it sent Blaze to Crisis City and then destroyed it doesn’t make sense, the shit was already being disrupted before that point
Heck, Tails literally said the same thing "Modern Tails: But the more your monster tears through the timeline, the more damage you do to it!"

 

[Starsprite53]

Time Eater opening a portal to a world doesn't mean that Time Eater was the one that actually restored it. That's a false cause fallacy, it's a stupid assumption to make.

Since it's an echo of Mephiles's erased timeline, it already existed by the time that Time Eater actually did anything.

Literally this, We have a reason why Crisis City appeared which is said by Gelard

 

[Theuser789]

You do realize that Time Eater was already tearing through stages and causing havoc across time before it supposedly "destroyed all of time", right? That was the whole reason behind Rouge and G.U.N invetigating the topic. It was doing that in the very first cutscene of Generations before he came to Sonic's party.

No, he wasn't. The two links you showed literally have nothing to do with your point. Rouge and GUN took that information from an Eggman base, because Eggman was missing. The Classic Sonic thing was when he destroyed the timeline, since he was sent to White Space. You're making shit up because you realized you can't apply the echo stuff to justify Eggman sending Blaze to Crisis City.

Tails literally said the same thing "Modern Tails: But the more your monster tears through the timeline, the more damage you do to it!"

Tails says this DURING the FINAL battle, why are you using this as evidence for any actions BEFORE the time and space destruction?

 

[JJSliderman]

I mean regardless, Time Eater was able to interact with a version of the Solaris crisis timeline despite it being erased, seeing as the timeline is colorless and within white space, just like the rest of the stages. That and the BradyGames guide notes it to be there because of Time Eater. If crisis city was there just because of damage to the timeline and not because of time eater, it wouldn’t have its dimensional energy sucked away in the same manner as all the other stages.

 

[Theuser789]

BradyGames guide notes it to be there because of Time Eater.

Post the scan, because this single-handedly debunks the entire opposition.

 

[JJSliderman]

Oh I misremembered, it says it’s due to the doorway through reality in white space and not Time Eater. My bad.

 

[JJSliderman]

But I still do think time eater was involved because of the fact crisis city is restored by Sonic in the same vein as all the other stages, meaning it’s dimensional energy was sucked away, and time eater is the main entity that does that.

 

[Starsprite53]

No, he wasn't. The two links you showed literally have nothing to do with your point. Rouge and GUN took that information from an Eggman base, because Eggman was missing. The Classic Sonic thing was when he destroyed the timeline, since he was sent to White Space. You're making shit up because you realized you can't apply the echo stuff to justify Eggman sending Blaze to Crisis City.

Elaborate why Specifically Time Eater? Espacially when Eggman encountered him directly after Sonic colors, where that was the first time Eggman met him and discovered his abilities.
No, He literally did that before he came to Sonic's present, in fact his action didn't affect the present proves he was doing that locally.
Please watch the cutscene and stop twisting the context.

 

[Starsprite53]

But I still do think time eater was involved because of the fact crisis city is restored by Sonic in the same vein as all the other stages, meaning it’s dimensional energy was sucked away, and time eater is the main entity that does that.

Crisis City was already erased Since 06.

 

[Starsprite53]

Tails says this DURING the FINAL battle, why are you using this as evidence for any actions BEFORE the time and space destruction?

THE heck are you talking about? Time Eater tearing THROUGH time was THE FIRST thing he did in the game, how do you think Tails came up with this conclusion MID- game? Tails was talking about what was he doing, in fact Eggman literally implied he haven't erased the timeline YET

 

[JJSliderman]

Crisis City was already erased Since 06.

Yes but time eater erases things by specifically removing dimensional energy from them, it’s different from a timeline being removed by time paradox.

 

[Theuser789]

But I still do think time eater was involved because of the fact crisis city is restored by Sonic in the same vein as all the other stages, meaning it’s dimensional energy was sucked away, and time eater is the main entity that does that.

Yeah, I found the scan. It says it's an alternative timeline, so that part is solved.

Crisis City was already erased Since 06.

Stages being white is a direct consequence of their dimensional energy being sucked in by the Time Eater, as your precious Ian Flynn said:

So Crisis City being white MEANS it HAS to have been affected by the Time Eater. This pretty much solves that Crisis City being here has to have been Time Eater's fault, no buts or ifs about it.

 

[Starsprite53]

Yes but time eater erases things by specifically removing dimensional energy from them, it’s different from a timeline being removed by time paradox.

Both end up in the same results, dimensional energy removed = time erased
Tails literally continue this by saying "The Sonics are the one constant here. Their speed is restoring space-time!"
And what happened to crisis city after the paradox in 06? It was erased.

 

[Starsprite53]

Yeah, I found the scan. It says it's an alternative timeline, so that part is solved.

Bold of you to assume I give a single **** about what a third party guide says, the game holds priority.
Also this you?

Prima Guides aren't super reliable, and even so, Solaris would still exist through all of time.

At least Please be consistent

 

[Telomera]

The Classic Sonic thing was when he destroyed the timeline, since he was sent to White Space.

It happened before Time Eater pulled Blaze into the portal as we can clearly see in the cutscene. Time Eater didn't just destroy all of spacetime all at once, Tails made it pretty clear in his dialogue with Eggman that Time Eater was continually rampaging through spacetime.

 

[Theuser789]

Both end up in the same results, dimensional energy removed = time erased

Tails straight up says it's the Time Eater's doing

Stages being white is a direct consequence of their dimensional energy being sucked in by the Time Eater, as your precious Ian Flynn said:

So Crisis City being white MEANS it HAS to have been affected by the Time Eater. This pretty much solves that Crisis City being here has to have been Time Eater's fault, no buts or ifs about it.

You can't really deny this.

 

[JJSliderman]

Bold of you to assume I give a single **** about what a third party guide says, the game holds priority.
Also this you?

At least Please be consistent

Crisis city being an alt timeline is supported by speed simulator, where esp silver’s offshoot of the crisis city timeline count as its own dimension, so it would make sense crisis city is as well.

 

[KLOL506]

People, calm down. This is not the kind of behavior we tolerate over here. Either chill out, or take a break from this thread.

 

[Starsprite53]

Stardust Speedway, an alternative "Bad future"

It's not an alternative bad future.

several Special Stages.

Sonic goes to them using the warp rings that lead to other dimensions, that literally proves they weren't destroyed.

 

[Starsprite53]

• Objects from other timelines drift into the ITD, which is functionally infinite and outside the erased cosmology.

This kills your own argument of it being a higher causality/dimension of time.

 

[Theuser789]

It happened before Time Eater pulled Blaze into the portal as we can clearly see in the cutscene. Time Eater didn't just destroy all of spacetime all at once,

Time Eater is accepted to have destroyed all of space and time here:

And we see him showing up in multiple places at the same time:


That scene with Classic Sonic was when he destroyed all of space and time. Anything else is headcanon.

 

[Starsprite53]

Crisis city being an alt timeline is supported by speed simulator, where esp silver’s offshoot of the crisis city timeline count as its own dimension, so it would make sense crisis city is as well.

And an alternate dimension is the same as previous erasd timeline because??
Honestly conceding that it's an alt timeline and that it exists kills your hypertime even more.

 

[JJSliderman]

It's not an alternative bad future.

In the context of CD, which is when the fight is taking place as it’s specifically classic metal sonic, yes this is an alternate bad future. The good future, the likely canon one, is more brightly colored

 

[JJSliderman]

And an alternate dimension is the same as previous erasd timeline because??
Honestly conceding that it's an alt timeline and that it exists kills your hypertime even more.

What I’m saying is crisis city on its own being a timeline is supported, not that it’s an alt timeline that still exists.

 

[Robo432343]

also the fact that the game features no entirely separate universes from Sonic's world. Instead, any alternate settings that appear are timelines within the main universe further shows time eater didn't erase the entire cosmology