Deactivating Anti-Hypertime annihilation mechanism limiter... | Sonic Cosmology Downgrade Part ?: Hypertimelines

[Telomera]

Qawsedf234 implied he disagrees since his first post, by saying that hypertimeline was still valid for these reasons. So that's 2 staff disagreements.

First off, implication isn't enough on its own. Secondly, that was before I made my counterarguments.

 

[Theuser789]

First off, implication isn't enough on its own. Secondly, that was before I made my counterarguments.

Even after you made them, he still disagreed with and agreed with hypertimeline.

This was the accepted justification with Solaris. That since the time was erased and time manipulation was used to resummon it, you get the needed logic for a hypertimeline.

If Solaris was never erased however, there is no justification for a hypertimeline in Sonic.

Making counterarguments doesn't mean staff have to change their opinions. But sure, he can go ahead and give a clear disagreement or agreement if you really need it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Making counterarguments doesn't mean staff have to change their opinions. But sure, he can go ahead and give a clear disagreement or agreement if you really need it.

Originally, I agreed with the OP. The only source for Hypertimelines is the Sonic Generations stuff with Sonic 06. The implication that they can recall previous states of the multiverse through time travel was enough for me to count and the OP raised a sufficent enough issue with it that I agreed it doesn't seem to fit.

After the following comment however:

He was. I'm assuming you're talking about Generations, right? Mephiles straight up says he "wants to exist" in that game.

Time Eater restored him, thus hypertimeline.

It seems like there is confirmation that Solaris (and therefore the game) was erased from the timeline. So the Time Eater recalling them counts as a hypertimeline in my view, so I disagree with the OP's final conclusion.

As stated before though, that is the only evidence that fits. The other generations' stuff and Sonic Prime absolutely do not count in my mind.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I suppose we should get more staff opinions before this carries on for 10 pages and becomes unreadable

@DarkDragonMedeus @Firestorm808

 

[JJSliderman]

An uncountably infinite amount of snapshots (which is not proven) would be necessary for higher dimensional tiering

I mean respectfully how does one show an uncountable infinite amount of snapshots, like there is evidence to believe there is one snapshot per time point, and there would be an infinite amount of time points. It’s not just universes at these time points, it’s entire separate timelines and time axes, so is that not just an infinite amount of temporal snapshots?

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Well this escalated quickly

The arguments presented through time travel also make the case of a hypertimeline solid compared to what the opposition says.

 

[JJSliderman]

Me who still doesn’t really get hypertime

 

[KLOL506]

I suppose we should get more staff opinions before this carries on for 10 pages and becomes unreadable

@DarkDragonMedeus @Firestorm808

@Planck69 @Elizhaa @Starter_Pack Help us. Mav already called the cavalry, but still.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Isn't the standard assumption that all timelines or whatever have uncountably infinite points unless proven otherwise?

 

[Theglassman12]

Disagree with the thread, the supporters make more sense.

 

[Telomera]

After the following comment however:

It seems like there is confirmation that Solaris (and therefore the game) was erased from the timeline. So the Time Eater recalling them counts as a hypertimeline in my view, so I disagree with the OP's final conclusion.

But recallling an erased timeline is just two snapshots: one where it was erased, and one where it was not erased. There is no need for there to be an uncountably infinite development of timelines between those two snapshots. In fact, the Tiering System FAQ explains a scenario where entire timelines are rewritten, going from one snapshot to an entirely different snapshot, just like what Solaris did, but only a finite amount of snapshots are involved. It still has to be proven that the development of the timelines is time-like, which the opposition has not done. The recalling of mephiles/solaris was not done through time travel or any other time-like process.

 

[Telomera]

Isn't the standard assumption that all timelines or whatever have uncountably infinite points unless proven otherwise?

Yes, but that only works for this scaling if there even is a higher timeline in the first place, which hasn't been proven.

 

[Theuser789]

Disagree with the thread, the supporters make more sense.

3 staff disagreements now. How many are needed until it's fully rejected?

 

[Voidnether]

3 staff disagreements already, is it even really necessary to continue this thread anyway?

 

[JJSliderman]

Yes, but that only works for this scaling if there even is a higher timeline in the first place, which hasn't been proven.

End of Time exists as a higher order level of time than the rest of the multiverse and all its timelines.

 

[Telomera]

3 staff disagreements now. How many are needed until it's fully rejected?

3 staff disagreements already, is it even really necessary to continue this thread anyway?

There's a grace period of 48 hours, but we should also get evaluation from "staff members who possess a reasonable level of genuine understanding and expertise" in tier 1. Theglassman is listed as one of them but only in terms of Low 1-C

 

[Theglassman12]

@Telomera That doesn't make my vote less relevant here. I've made my vote and 3 votes is needed for any noteworthy CRT to be accepted or rejected.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Yes, but that only works for this scaling if there even is a higher timeline in the first place, which hasn't been proven.

Ok so are you saying that:
If there is not a hypertimeline = No scaling
If there is a hypertimeline = Scaling

 

[KLOL506]

There's a grace period of 48 hours, but we should also get evaluation from "staff members who possess a reasonable level of genuine understanding and expertise" in tier 1. Theglassman is listed as one of them but only in terms of Low 1-C

There is no grace period for threads that get overwhelmingly rejected regardless of tiers involved. In those cases they get shut down outright. And you cannot retry them for at least 3 more months unless you have new evidence.

We have two admins (DDM voted disagree after this comment, Qawsedf changed his vote to agree) and one thread mod disagreeing (Also you are in no position to invalidate Glass's vote regardless of his expertise being only in that realm, nobody, not even staff, can invalidate another staff member's votes). We get two more votes on disagreement and this thread is as good as dead.

 

[OrangeFR]

Because that's headcanon made up to simply take away Sonic's 6D rating.

Lowkey kinda what I was doing

 

[AyOgUyS]

Anyway, if all we need to keep the hypertimeline is proof that hypertime is a thing then I disagree with OP as I'm 99% sure there are instances of characters time traveling despite time being erased, requiring an additional temporal dimension.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I don't think this thread is a fruitless endeavor.

If agreed, I can add to the hypertimeline blog that Mephiles was explicitly stated himself to have been erased from existence through implication.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I got the same thoughts as Qawsed basically. His most recent post.

 

[AyOgUyS]

I don't think this thread is a fruitless endeavor.

If agreed, I can add to the hypertimeline blog that Mephiles was explicitly stated himself to have been erased from existence through implication.

I agree, no reason we shouldn't add more evidence.

 

[JJSliderman]

I imagine it should be made more clear that “time being reset” from the Encyclospeedia is referring to time traveling to before time was erased to get an unerased version of time, with hypertime being kept. I feel like it’s very easy to take the quote as more referring to time being restored because it got fixed directly.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But recallling an erased timeline is just two snapshots: one where it was erased, and one where it was not erased.

I'm taking it as the following:

Aside from direct statements, the easiest way to confirm that the line is comprised of uncountably infinitely many points/"snapshots" is to show that the development of the timelines is time-like. I.e. typically one would want a statement indicating that the alteration of the timelines is subject to its own flow of time, or that special time travel can go to prior versions of the timelines instead of the past. The keyword in the latter case is time travel, as that specifies that the action happens through movement through something like time. Note that such statements can be considered contradicted if the fiction specifies that new versions of the timeline, i.e. additional snapshots, are only created when the timeline is altered or similar.

If it was just "State 1 is erased, they're in State 2" like with Sonic Prime I agree that isn't enough. But they're using explicit time travel powers to reach that erased state, which implies a hypertime line to me. It's why Solaris is the sole reason why Sonic qualifies for a hypertime line in my view. A cosmology is erased, and time travel is shown to bring a portion of it back.

In my view Sonic Prime should just be removed from the blog as it's not a hypertime line in my view.

 

[AyOgUyS]

I'm taking it as the following:

If it was just "State 1 is erased, they're in State 2" like with Sonic Prime I agree that isn't enough. But they're using explicit time travel powers to reach that erased state, which implies a hypertime line to me. It's why Solaris is the sole reason why Sonic qualifies for a hypertime line in my view. A cosmology is erased, and time travel is shown to bring a portion of it back.

In my view Sonic Prime should just be removed from the blog as it's not a hypertime line in my view.

evidence is still evidence

 

[Qawsedf234]

evidence is still evidence

Its not evidence though. It's like if you detailing a person's history of tax fraud and mention a time he stole a cat. The cat is just unrelated to the tax fraud case.

 

[Telomera]

But they're using explicit time travel powers to reach that erased state, which implies a hypertime line to me.

You'd have a point if that was true, but that's not explicit or confirmed at all. You can go through the opposition's posts and ask them for a scan, but just like all of the other cases, there's nothing actually saying that "time travel powers" were used by Time Eater to reach Mephiles's erased existence and restore it

But there is something pretty important that is more explicit: It is stated both here and here that there is just one singular dimension of time.

 

[Theuser789]

I got the same thoughts as Qawsed basically. His most recent post.

This makes 4 disagreements, then. One more until the thread is fully rejected, right?

 

[Theuser789]

It is stated both here and here that there is just one singular dimension of time.

None of those scans say there's only one singular dimension of time. None.

 

[Omegabronic]

None of those scans say there's only one singular dimension of time. None.

In fact, the second clip heavily implies there is more, as he says time is "only ONE OF" the dimensions of reality

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

This makes 4 disagreements, then. One more until the thread is fully rejected, right?

No, Qawsedf are agree with OP, and I disagree with OP

 

[Starsprite53]

None of those scans say there's only one singular dimension of time. None.

Time is just one dimension of reality, for the love of god.

 

[Starsprite53]

In fact, the second clip heavily implies there is more, as he says time is "only ONE OF" the dimensions of reality

Yeah because one dimension of time and three dimensions of space.

 

[Telomera]

In fact, the second clip heavily implies there is more, as he says time is "only ONE OF" the dimensions of reality

What that clip "heavily implies" is that the other dimensions are not time, but are instead spatial dimensions (which is why Tails immediately follows up by talking about the "endless possibilities of space"). If there were other temporal dimensions he would've said "our flow of time/time as we know it is just one dimension of reality" but instead he just said that "time" in general is just one dimension of reality.

 

[Wankbreaker]

You'd have a point if that was true, but that's not explicit or confirmed at all. You can go through the opposition's posts and ask them for a scan, but just like all of the other cases, there's nothing actually saying that "time travel powers" were used by Time Eater to reach Mephiles's erased existence and restore it

But there is something pretty important that is more explicit: It is stated both here and here that there is just one singular dimension of time.

Do you have the original language versions of the game dialogue (and the video if applicable)

“The dimension of time” seems like heavily implicating the existence of only 1 time dimension, but meh.

 

[Starsprite53]

"our flow of time/time as we know it is just one dimension of reality" but instead he just said that "time" in general is just one dimension of reality.

What????
Both are pratically the same sentence, I guess it could have been "Time is two dimensions" or something.

 

[Starsprite53]

Do you have the original language versions of the game dialogue (and the video if applicable)

This is actually the re-written english version by Ian Flynn.

 

[Wankbreaker]

This is actually the re-written english version by Ian Flynn.

Oh, so he’s like, the actual main writer for Shadow Generations? Thought he just took an assistant role.

In that case, I’m still of the belief that the scans in question imply the existence of only one time dimension.