Deactivating Anti-Hypertime annihilation mechanism limiter... | Sonic Cosmology Downgrade Part ?: Hypertimelines

[Theuser789]

I am simply claiming that there are no cases where time travel is the direct method by which separate "snapshots" of timelines AKA "hypersnapshots" are accessed.

But they do use timetravel to access different timelines, explicitly. Your point is that they aren't because they aren't.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Shake and NeonTxme's arguments make more sense to me, so I disagree with the OP.

 

[OrangeFR]

The argument against was that there was no proof of an uncountable infinite amount of temporal snapshots so I was contributing to the idea there might be, when combined with Tails statement of endless/infinite possibilities corresponding to dimensions within the multiverse.

How are different universes snapshots of a hypertimeline tho? Wouldn’t them combined just be a tier 2 cosmology?

 

[JJSliderman]

How are different universes snapshots of a hypertimeline tho? Wouldn’t them combined just be a tier 2 cosmology?

It’s more like, traveling through time is equivalent to traveling through timelines, which I assumed was the mechanism behind how a hypertimeline worked.

 

[OrangeFR]

It’s more like, traveling through time is equivalent to traveling through timelines, which I assumed was the mechanism behind how a hypertimeline worked.

That would just be traveling between multiple Low 2-C constructs, no?

 

[Theuser789]

How are different universes snapshots of a hypertimeline tho? Wouldn’t them combined just be a tier 2 cosmology?

The idea is that all of time and space was erased, but that timeline still exists anyways because they travelled to it. Thus, a hypertimeline. The main thing that holds here is the fact that the Time Eater can summon the erased 06 timeline in White Space, showing there's a higher time dimension that encompasses everything that was erased.

 

[OrangeFR]

The idea is that all of time and space was erased, but that timeline still exists anyways because they travelled to it. Thus, a hypertimeline. The main thing that holds here is the fact that the Time Eater can summon the erased 06 timeline in White Space, showing there's a higher time dimension that encompasses everything that was erased.

Or the Time Eater just recreated it. Seems like a possibly or likely 6-D to me

 

[JJSliderman]

Time Eater doesn’t create time, he erases it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Time Eater doesn’t create time, he vores it.

Fixed

 

[JJSliderman]

But there is an idea that different points in time constitute different timelines, there are an infinite amount of different timelines (which might satisfy the idea of uncountable infinite time snapshots when combined as time travel is still treated as going back to a previous state of the timeline), and the hypertimeline encompasses erased timelines as well going off crisis city.

 

[JJSliderman]

That said I’m still not uber confident in hypertime so take what I say with a tiny salt grain.

 

[OrangeFR]

Time Eater doesn’t create time, he erases it.

Playing devils advocate here, what if that’s just usable as reasoning for TE to get creation

 

[JJSliderman]

The problem is literally every other thing about time eater’s methodology is him destroying or obliterating elements. At best we get Eggman saying that he would alter history, but that’s not time eater directly creating new timelines.

 

[OrangeFR]

The problem is literally every other thing about time eater’s methodology is him destroying or obliterating elements. At best we get Eggman saying that he would alter history, but that’s not time eater directly creating new timelines.

Still doesn’t make it impossible

 

[Telomera]

Except this is a constant issue with you in any Sonic thread. Rather than speaking to somebody like somebody mature, you hide behind coy comments and an attitude you perpetually deny is condescending.

Also to @Telomera, I think we'll just agree to disagree since I think any further debate will lead into running in circles and just occupying more replies. T'was a fun debate with you, we'll let staff judge and whatnot. Hopefully there's no bad blood, buddy

The main disagreement is on whether these cases were demonstrations of altered states of timelines (AKA "hypersnapshots") being accessed directly by time travel along one flow of time, right? Us agreeing on that could help the judges out

And to clarify, me saying "along one flow of time" is because a lot of these cases are obviously going from one point in time to another, which you could call "time travel." I just think that it's a discrete jump from one point in time in one flow of time to another point in time in another flow of time, whereas you think that they are time traveling from one point in time along a hypertimeline to another point in time along that same hypertimeline.

Here are my illustrations of what I mean:

This is your interpretation where the altered state/"hypersnapshot" is accessed directly by time travel along one flow of hypertime:

This is my interpretation where the timeline goes from a snapshot of being broken to a second snapshot where it is reset, and then Sonic travels back in time after the timeline is reset:

Would you say that this accurately represents our interpretations?

 

[Telomera]

Shake and NeonTxme's arguments make more sense to me, so I disagree with the OP.

I pretty clearly explained that NeonTxme still didn't resolve the issue that the examples he cited don't support the existence of a time-like development of uncountably infinite snapshots of timelines at all since rewriting timelines doesn't indicate anything more than a finite number of "snapshots". Same with Shake's arguments

In the case that you're willing to respond, what made you think their arguments made more sense?

 

[Telomera]

Except this is a constant issue with you in any Sonic thread. Rather than speaking to somebody like somebody mature, you hide behind coy comments and an attitude you perpetually deny is condescending.

Also to @Telomera, I think we'll just agree to disagree since I think any further debate will lead into running in circles and just occupying more replies. T'was a fun debate with you, we'll let staff judge and whatnot. Hopefully there's no bad blood, buddy

By the way, I ask because it would be better for us to sum up our arguments and counterarguments in an easy-to-understand way to help the staff evaluate.

 

[OrangeFR]

Here are my illustrations of what I mean:

This is your interpretation where the altered state/"hypersnapshot" is accessed directly by time travel along one flow of hypertime:

This is my interpretation where the timeline goes from a snapshot of being broken to a second snapshot where it is reset, and then Sonic travels back in time after the timeline is reset:

Would you say that this accurately represents our interpretations?

I agree with the second one

 

[JJSliderman]

Still doesn’t make it impossible

Yes but him recreating crisis city doesn’t really make sense when Eggman has never showcased he even remembers it. More likely time eater can just interact with the erased timelines and bring them to white space.

 

[Telomera]

And to clarify, I'm not necessarily saying that Sonic literally "moved" to the second snapshot. We know for a fact that he was in a damaged timeline, and then he was in a reset timeline. Me illustrating both the damaged timeline and the reset timeline in one image is not me saying anything about whether or not they coexisted or not or whether they are in any sense separate. It could be a single timeline going from one state to a second state while Sonic is in it, or it could be Sonic moving from one timeline to another. My interpretation is neutral on that matter. Either way, no more than 2 snapshots are required.

 

[JJSliderman]

Well I’d argue that there are more than 2 snapshots overall because it’s established that different points in time in Sonic are considered snapshots outside of just ‘06.
And Tails notes that there are an infinite amount of possibilities, which means an infinite amount of snapshots.

 

[OrangeFR]

Well I’d argue that there are more than 2 snapshots overall because it’s established that different points in time in Sonic are considered snapshots outside of just ‘06.
And Tails notes that there are an infinite amount of possibilities, which means an infinite amount of snapshots.

Infinite amount of possibilities just reads to me like a 2-A statement

 

[Telomera]

This was the accepted justification with Solaris. That since the time was erased and time manipulation was used to resummon it, you get the needed logic for a hypertimeline.

If Solaris was never erased however, there is no justification for a hypertimeline in Sonic.

By the way, from this scan, it seems that Solaris was still in the process of destroying time ("destroys" is present tense) while he fought them rather than already having erased all of time.

 

[Telomera]

Well I’d argue that there are more than 2 snapshots overall because it’s established that different points in time in Sonic are considered snapshots outside of just ‘06.
And Tails notes that there are an infinite amount of possibilities, which means an infinite amount of snapshots.

An uncountably infinite amount of snapshots (which is not proven) would be necessary for higher dimensional tiering

 

[PedjaTarzan]

An uncountably infinite amount of snapshots (which is not proven) would be necessary for higher dimensional tiering

ismt this automatically assumed for timeline in general? or was that just proposed for the updated tier 2 being destroying any sized timeline due to uncountably infinite snapshots
in one time
theres also destroying part of time being high 3-A due to that portion still holding inf snapshots

 

[Voidnether]

An uncountably infinite amount of snapshots (which is not proven) would be necessary for higher dimensional tiering

I think you just misunderstood that an uncountably infinite amount of snapshots refers to the existence of higher/multiple temporal dimensions with the latter being a hypertimeline. I don't see why this would be necessary for higher dimensional tiering when HDE isn't even being brought up, if you destroyed multiple temporal dimensions in which there exist a temporal dimension that governs our space-time continuum then it would already be 5-D

 

[Telomera]

ismt this automatically assumed for timeline in general? or was that just proposed for the updated tier 2 being destroying any sized timeline due to uncountably infinite snapshots
in one time
theres also destroying part of time being high 3-A due to that portion still holding inf snapshots

I'm more specifically talking about an uncountably infinite amount of snapshots (you can call these "hypersnapshots") where each of those uncountably infinite snapshots contains a 4D timeline which itself contains an uncountably infinite amount of 3D snapshots. A hypertimeline has hypersnapshots which each have snapshots. That is not something you'd automatically assume when talking about timelines going from one state/snapshot to another.

In fact, entire timelines can be rewritten without any need for infinite snapshots of those timelines.

 

[Telomera]

I think you just misunderstood that an uncountably infinite amount of snapshots refers to the existence of higher/multiple temporal dimensions with the latter being a hypertimeline. I don't see why this would be necessary for higher dimensional tiering when HDE isn't even being brought up, if you destroyed multiple temporal dimensions in which there exist a temporal dimension that governs our space-time continuum then it would already be 5-D

The guy who I replied to said that Tails mentioning infinite possibilities may warrant higher dimensional tiering. But that's not enough, it has to be an uncountably infinite amount.

At the same time, there is no proof of a higher temporal dimension existing anyways, which was something I explained above in this thread

 

[Voidnether]

The guy who I replied to said that Tails mentioning infinite possibilities may warrant higher dimensional tiering. But that's not enough, it has to be an uncountably infinite amount.

At the same time, there is no proof of a higher temporal dimension existing anyways, which was something I explained above in this thread

Infinite possibilities in the sense that it's 2-A already warrants it more than enough, when a higher temporal dimension that governs our space-time continuum (Low 2-C) would already be Low 1-C given the very "space-time continuum" itself would consist of infinite snapshots already. I do recall that Sonic's case is similar like Tensura where it's extradimensional, isn't that enough?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I'm more specifically talking about an uncountably infinite amount of snapshots (you can call these "hypersnapshots") where each of those uncountably infinite snapshots contains a 4D timeline which itself contains an uncountably infinite amount of 3D snapshots. A hypertimeline has hypersnapshots which each have snapshots. That is not something you'd automatically assume when talking about timelines going from one state/snapshot to another.

In fact, entire timelines can be rewritten without any need for infinite snapshots of those timelines.

ok but that isnt even explained why? like how is making new timeline trough tome travel just 2 to 3 snapshots how did they go to uncountably infinite snapshots to just TWO

 

[Telomera]

I do recall that Sonic's case is similar like Tensura where it's extradimensional, isn't that enough?

No. The higher tiering is based on entirely different stuff that I debunked in this thread.

 

[Telomera]

ok but that isnt even explained why? like how is making new timeline trough tome travel just 2 to 3 snapshots how did they go to uncountably infinite snapshots to just TWO

My point is that there never were uncountably infinite snapshots to begin with. It's an entirely unnecessary assumption, I already explained that only two are necessary to describe what happened with the timeline being restored.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

My point is that there never were uncountably infinite snapshots to begin with. It's an entirely unnecessary assumption, I already explained that only two are necessary to describe what happened with the timeline being restored.

nah not that i ask abt tiering FaQ itself, why is it assumed like that since i dont see explanation abt it in same FaQ

 

[Theuser789]

Playing devils advocate here, what if that’s just usable as reasoning for TE to get creation

Because that's headcanon made up to simply take away Sonic's 6D rating.

 

[Theuser789]

an easy-to-understand way to help the staff evaluate.

2 staff already evaluated the thread and disagreed. Let's not pull the card that they didn't really understand you or anything similar.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Timelines are assumed to be infinite by default unless proven otherwise, not the other way around. The snapshot thingy doesn't change that.

 

[Telomera]

nah not that i ask abt tiering FaQ itself, why is it assumed like that since i dont see explanation abt it in same FaQ

I mean, why would there have to be uncountably many snapshots in between? It's better to go with Occam's razor and discard explanations that require a bunch of unnecessary assumptions. It's the same logic as us tiering Saitama at 3-C rather than universal or some other higher tier: it's possible and would be consistent that Saitama is way stronger, but we don't tier him all the way there because it would require a bunch of assumptions we have no proof of.

But they do use timetravel to access different timelines, explicitly. Your point is that they aren't because they aren't.

It's not explicit at all. Whenever time travel is mentioned, it's either something that helps the protagonists fix timelines (it's not the method by which they access an alternate timeline snapshot) or something unrelated (helping Sonic eat a chili dog while it's still warm). You haven't cited any instances that actually prove your point.

2 staff already evaluated the thread and disagreed. Let's not pull the card that they didn't really understand you or anything similar.

Only Maverick_Zero_X disagreed so far.

 

[Telomera]

Timelines are assumed to be infinite by default unless proven otherwise, not the other way around.

I never disputed that

 

[Theuser789]

When we talked about this last time, this was the major point of evidence. Sonic 06 was erased from the timeline and doesn't exist, but was still able to be recalled by the Time Eater. Being able to travel to non-existent timeline implies a secondary snapshot of the multiverse which supports a hypertimeline.

The Sonic Prime and Generation stuff was never good enough on their own without the Spnic 06 stuff.

Qawsedf234 implied he disagrees since his first post, by saying that hypertimeline was still valid for these reasons. So that's 2 staff disagreements.

Only Maverick_Zero_X disagreed so far.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I mean, why would there have to be uncountably many snapshots in between? It's better to go with Occam's razor and discard explanations that require a bunch of unnecessary assumptions. It's the same logic as us tiering Saitama at 3-C rather than universal or some other higher tier: it's possible and would be consistent that Saitama is way stronger, but we don't tier him all the way there because it would require a bunch of assumptions we have no proof of.

that…doesnt answer my question like genuenly, making new timelines wether trough time traveling or with ur power would generally also make them with uncountably infinite snapshots, like why assume the og timeline of universe has uncountably inf snapshots and others do not, thats what im asking for, why do they drop from that to just two to three, and thats whats missing in faq explanation