[MCU] Arishem & Celestials Update

[RoTt35]

Arishem should have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) since he caused the Big Bang that created the Infinity Stones, which are the physical embodiments of concepts. He should also have Technology Manipulation as he built and programmed the Eternals as synthetic beings and Extrasensory Perception as he was able to accurately locate Sersi, Kingo, and Phastos across Earth, plus all the abilities and resistances of the Celestials, who should have Life Manipulation since they can create living beings and Resistance to Matter Manipulation and Deconstruction since they can wield the Power Stone and are unaffected by being at point-blank range of its shockwaves, which can atomize its target

Currently, they have "Unknown, likely Infinite" Stamina, which I think should be straight up Infinite based on the following:

Celestials are the most powerful energy generators in the universe and have infinite cosmic energy, which they have used to create new suns since the dawn of creation across the universe, as part of a constant exchange of energy in an infinite cycle of creation and destruction

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Arishem should have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) since he caused the Big Bang that created the Infinity Stones, which are the physical embodiments of concepts.

Ok no, did you see Conceptual Manipulation page? It say:

Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat-applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly. However, through this power, one can change the universe's fundamental principles on the highest level.

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.

He don't really created or manipulated these concepts directly, it's just created universe and thus those concept to be exist (which is not qualify).

 

[RoTt35]

He don't really created or manipulated these concepts directly, it's just created universe and thus those concept to be exist (which is not qualify).

The concepts already existed before the universe as six Singularities, through the Big Bang Arishem condensed them and created the Infinity Stones from their remnants as the physical embodiments of said concepts

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

The concepts already existed before the universe as six Singularities, through the Big Bang Arishem condensed them and created the Infinity Stones from their remnants as the physical embodiments of said concepts

Can you show me scan/statement?

 

[KaramcaS]

He causes something, it does not create it directly.

He indirectly creates the Universe by enabling the Big Bang to occur, and the formation of the Universe causes the formation of the Infinity stones.

 

[Ptumri9]

Can you show me scan/statement?

The collector from GOTG 1:

Before creation itself... there were 6 singularities... then the universe exploded into existance and the remnants were formed into concentrated ingots.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

The collector from GOTG 1:

Yh, he doesn't create it directly, it needs statement like "concept/natural are created by Gods"

 

[Ptumri9]

Yh, he doesn't create it directly, it needs statement like "concept/natural are created by Gods"

Yeah, I'm not really an expert on how conceptual manipulation works, so I just shared the statement without adding any comment

 

[KaramcaS]

The collector from GOTG 1:

So, Arishem didn't create the Infinity Stones. The Remnants existed before the universe, they just took stone form with the Big Bang. This has nothing to do with Arishem.

 

[Ptumri9]

So, Arishem didn't create the Infinity Stones. The Remnants existed before the universe, they just took stone form with the Big Bang. This has nothing to do with Arishem.

I mean, technically he did, maybe not directly, but he still caused the concepts themselves to take shape and be condensed into small stones.

 

[RoTt35]

The scans are already in the Imgur album:

Before creation itself, six singularities existed. When the universe exploded into existence, the singularities' remnants were forged into concentrated ingots capable of manipulating the fundamental aspects of the new reality.

From the dawn of the universe, there was nothing. Then, boom! The Big Bang sent six elemental crystals hurtling across the virgin universe. These Infinity Stones each control an essential aspect of existence.

The Infinity Stones are the condensed remains of six singularities that existed long before the current universe. Every stone holds a power so vast that it lies beyond mortal comprehension. Each controls a primordial aspect of the universe: space, reality, time, power, mind, and soul.

Wong revealed the history of the Infinity Stones-how the Big Bang created six stones containing the universe's elemental energies: time, power, reality, soul, space and mind.

These stones defy all science of which I'm familiar. The power they possess is unparalleled. If I am to understand correctly, at the time the cosmos formed, six elemental crystals were also formed. The impact of the "Big Bang" sent those stones across the known universe. Each of them possessed an essential aspect of existence—space, reality, power, soul, mind, and time—before they were scattered

The Big Bang creates six objects of indescribable potency. Each represents a different aspect of existence: power, reality, mind, soul, space, and time.

Arishem creates both the universe and the Infinity Stones through the Big Bang, the latter are the remnants of six Singularities older than the universe that were concentrated into physical concepts that possess/represent their respective aspect, each capable of manipulating it. Tbh I don't know if turning a concept into something physical that embodies it qualifies as Conceptual Manipulation, if not could it be something else?

 

[Ptumri9]

The scans are already in the Imgur album:






Arishem creates both the universe and the Infinity Stones through the Big Bang, the latter are the remnants of six Singularities older than the universe that were concentrated into physical concepts that possess/represent their respective aspect, each capable of manipulating it. Tbh I don't know if turning a concept into something physical that embodies it qualifies as Conceptual Manipulation, if not could it be something else?

I think it could fit type 2 conceptual manipulation?

• Concept Alteration: The ability to manipulate, alter, or change concepts. By using this ability, concepts themselves can be changed in a variety of ways. The concept can have an object added to it, an object taken from it, or change the current principle of the concept. If a concept is changed, the world is altered in some way to fit this new conceptual definition, though the extent of this varies by the type of concept being manipulated.

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump. Also, the artbook states the following about the Celestials:

Later on, we shifted to a more grounded approach. Since their births were now going to result in the death of their incubator/planet, I thought it would be interesting if each Celestial looked as if they had been made of the stone/mantle of the planet from which they would emerge. Having the metallic and geometric exoskeletons around the stone lent itself to the idea that there's intelligence behind the creation of their corporeal forms.

While a guidebook states that their bodies are made of cosmic energy. I don't know if that would imply that the true body of the Celestials is cosmic energy while their corporeal form or exoskeleton is made of the stone and mantle of a planet

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[Thermor]

Conceptual manip works here ig (but specifically for creation)

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[FentyBeauty]

i’m too slow for the concept stuff but everything looks cool

While a guidebook states that their bodies are made of cosmic energy. I don't know if that would imply that the true body of the Celestials is cosmic energy while their corporeal form or exoskeleton is made of the stone and mantle of a planet

omg also here’s a much clearer pic of this if u want to use it just in case

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[FinePoint]

Arishem should have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) since he caused the Big Bang that created the Infinity Stones, which are the physical embodiments of concepts.

Probably not. They represent aspects of reality, and even control them, but I don't see any evidence they're actually abstract concepts.

He should also have Technology Manipulation as he built and programmed the Eternals as synthetic beings

I guess.

and Extrasensory Perception as he was able to accurately locate Sersi, Kingo, and Phastos across Earth, plus all the abilities and resistances of the Celestials,

Sure.

who should have Life Manipulation since they can create living beings

I guess.

and Resistance to Matter Manipulation and Deconstruction since they can wield the Power Stone and are unaffected by being at point-blank range of its shockwaves, which can atomize its target

Is it actually targeting them, though?

Currently, they have "Unknown, likely Infinite" Stamina, which I think should be straight up Infinite based on the following:

I don't mind it.

 

[RoTt35]

Probably not. They represent aspects of reality, and even control them, but I don't see any evidence they're actually abstract concepts.

I see, creating the Infinity Stones would grant something?

Is it actually targeting them, though?

Just by being in contact with the Power Stone is enough, and the shockwave destroyed all the planet's surface where the Celestial was

 

[FinePoint]

I see, creating the Infinity Stones would grant something?

Perhaps their abilities.

 

[Isaacbobanka]

Should the race "Celestials" not also have like Arishem that they have the power of Eternals and Deviants?

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Everything but Conceptual Manipulation, I agree with.

 

[RoTt35]

If I discard the rejected concept stuff, is the rest simple enough to be applied with two staff agreements considering the low interest of the thread?

 

[Godernet]

Conceptual Manip aside this looks good

 

[RoTt35]

I already applied the accepted changes so the thread can be closed now

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I already applied the accepted changes so the thread can be closed now

Neato! I will ask someone to close this thread.