Deactivating Anti-Hypertime annihilation mechanism limiter... | Sonic Cosmology Downgrade Part ?: Hypertimelines

[Telomera]

Sonic as well as the other god-tiers of the Sonic game continuity are currently rated as having 6D AP due to scaling to a cosmology with one extra spatial dimension on top of the already existing 3+1 dimensions, as well as an additional extra dimension via a "hypertimeline" that encompasses the Sonic multiverse. In this thread, I will demonstrate that the given justification for asserting the existence of such a "hypertimeline" in the Sonic verse is invalid and flagrantly misinterprets any reasonable set of standards for what constitutes a "hypertimeline." Thus, I propose that this line of scaling be nuked from the Sonic verse entirely.

Introduction and Standards​

First off, let's (quickly) discuss what a hypertimeline is and how the blog attempts to prove it. A hypertimeline operates along an extra dimension of time and is a collection of multiple "snapshots" of entire timelines or even sets of timelines (let's call these "hypersnapshots") with all of these hypersnapshots coexisting in the hypertimeline. Additionally, these hypersnapshots are connected in a continuous, "time-like" manner; as a result, there are an uncountably infinite amount of these hypersnapshots contained by the hypertimeline. The existence of such a hypertimeline can be proven by citing a case where someone in the verse uses some sort of "time travel" to travel from one "hypersnapshot" to an entirely different hypersnapshot (We can call this "hypertime travel") (time travel is assumed to be movement along a "time-like" series of snapshots, which I accept and will not contend).

Now let's make a checklist of how to prove that a hypertimeline exists via a concise checklist as well as discuss examples of what does not count as sufficient proof of the existence of a hypertimeline:

Checklist

1. Cite an instance where someone travels from one hypersnapshot to another
2. Method must specifically be time travel ("Hypertime travel")

Disqualifiers

1. Snapshots do not encompass an entire timeline, but are simply subsets of a timeline (they're not "hyper")
2. Method of going from one hypersnapshot to another not being time travel

Evaluating the Supposed Evidence​

1. Sonic x Shadow Generations​

Now, the blog attempts to prove the existence of a hypertimeline by pointing to three cases where time travel is allegedly used to travel from one hypersnapshot to another. However, none of these examples hold up. The first given example is that of the two Sonics restoring the multiverse in Sonic Generations. However, time travel is never said or indicated to be the method Sonic uses to restore his multiverse. The game explains that the two Sonics are restoring spacetime by using their speed to restore the dimensional energy that was drained by the Time Eater. While they do run back in time, that's not them using time travel to go to an entirely different "hypersnapshot" where the timelines weren't destroyed yet, not even close. The fact that they're piecing reality together bit by bit (as opposed to as a whole all at once) with nothing being reversed outside of those comparably tiny bits also contradicts the idea that they're using some sort of hyper time travel to get to an entirely different hypersnapshot where the multiverses are still intact. The idea that the Sonics used "hypertime travel" falls even further apart under this very simple question: If they really were using hyper time travel, why didn't they just rewind to a hypersnapshot before Time Eater absorbed all of the dimensional energy? And even if they had some convoluted reason not to do so, then why didn't they use this hypertime travel at the end of the game? The timelines were still broken when the classic and modern characters were partying together, so they had not in fact traveled to a previously existing "hypersnapshot" where the timelines were fixed. It makes no sense.

Now, I will point out that the blog cites the fact that Sonic says "Time travel!" at the end of the game when reflecting on the fact that even after all the stuff he did over the course of Generations, his chili dog was still warm. But does that mean that time travel was the method used to go from one hypersnapshot to another? No, that's a huge stretch and there's no reason to interpret it that way. All this means is that all the weird things Sonic did running through time made it so that he looped back to the same moment in time (not an entire hypersnapshot, but a normal snapshot, as the timelines were still damaged as I pointed out above) even though it felt like a long time from his perspective. The fact that the timeline is still damaged directly contradicts the idea that Sonic just used hypertime travel to get back to the same hypersnapshot to eat his chili dog while it was still warm because it actually wasn't the same hypersnapshot.

Since there is no proof that any sort of hypertime travel occurred, there is no proof of a hypertimeline either in this case.

2. Sonic '06​

This one's simpler to explain. The blog says that since the story, which involved the repairing of damaged timelines, was referred to as a time travel story, it must have been time travel that caused the repair of the damaged timelines. But that interpretation doesn't really make any sense. Time travel occurs multiple times throughout the game without repairing the timelines Ex: Eggman sending Sonic to the future, Silver traveling back to the present, and Shadow traveling to the past. When time travel happens, it doesn't repairs the timelines. On the contrary, it's them blowing out Solaris's flame that restores the timeline. Even right before they blew out Solaris's flame in the past, the timelines were still damaged. There was no point in the story where they just used "hyper time travel" to go back to a hypersnapshot in hypertime where the timelines were still intact. And as an aside, the hypertimeline interpretation of Sonic '06 really does pose the same problem as in Generations where if hypertime travel really was a thing, they could just reverse any and all bad things that happen during the story.

Since there is no proof that any sort of hypertime travel occurred, there is no proof of a hypertimeline either in this case.

3. Sonic Prime​

This one's the easiest to cover. In Sonic Prime, Sonic uses the Paradox Prism to restore his universe before its spacetime was messed up. But this simply isn't time travel, it's just using magic to restore a multiverse. That's obviously not proof of a hypertimeline.

The underlying issue with all of these arguments​

Underlying all of the bad arguments that the blog makes is the assumption that a change to timelines in the verse must have been done through time travel, even if no causal link was established. It's a false cause fallacy. In cases where Sonic mentions time travel to explain why his chili dog is still warm, where time travel is mentioned as an important part of the story, and even in cases where the blog can't even cite any mentions of time travel, the blog assumes without good reason that time travel must have also been the mechanism by which timelines were restored in these stories.

Last words​

None of these three instances serve as evidence for a hypertimeline in the Sonic verse. As such, this 6D scaling for game Sonic needs to be nuked.

Edit: Other information I found​

Mephiles wasn't brought back by the Time Eater through time travel, he was more likely a residual echo of his erased timeline. It definitely makes more sense than TIme Eater just deciding to bring back an erased timeline for no reason. (The "past" being mentioned isn't proof of hypertime btw as multiple factors such as Sonic, Shadow, and even time healing itself were restoring parts of time, allowing for the "past" to exist).

On top of that, the fact that only echoes are left of Mephiles's timeline being erased contradicts the claim of a hypertimeline, because if there was a hypertimeline, the erasure of Mephiles's timeline would be nothing more than a movement from one snapshot to another. Mephiles's timeline would still exist in its entirety as a past snapshot. The fact that only echoes are left of Mephiles's timeline contradicts this. This is further supported by the fact that Gerald confirms that if Shadow were to change his past, it would also rewrite his future and that all the things he did in the timeline originally would cease to be, which is absolutely not how a hypertimeline works.

Also, it's outright confirmed both here and here that there is just a singular dimension of time, that time is only one dimension.

Staff evaluation:​

Agree: Qawsedf234
Disagree: Maverick_Zero_X, Theglassman12, DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral:

 

[Osemere]

agree

(…and good luck)

 

[Robo432343]

 

[SweetDao]

OP is never stopping the downgrade streak...

 

[Robo432343]

Hey OP does this also affect the 5-D cosmology the verse has right now?

 

[Hayato5652]

following

 

[Telomera]

OP is never stopping the downgrade streak...

Can't stop, won't stop, will never stop

Hey OP does this also affect the 5-D cosmology the verse has right now?

No, 5-D is from the argument that one of Eggman's worlds has a tesseract in it (4D spatial + 1D temporal). It's not really related to the hypertimeline stuff (but it is something I plan to target after this thread)

 

[SweetDao]

Anyway, I'll wait to see the supporters' opinion, so for now I'll be neutral.

 

[Telomera]

Anyway, I'll wait to see the supporters' opinion, so for now I'll be neutral.

I just messaged a bunch of staff listed as knowledgeable on Tier 1, most of the staff listed as Sonic supporters, and the writers of the Sonic blogs

 

[Alexander]

what if we just remove the hypertimeline stuff for every verse (like i always been saying that i hate hypertimeline)

 

[NeonTxme]

I heavily disagree.

You claim a Hypertimeline must consist of "hypersnapshots" of timelines connected through a higher temporal axis, and that the only "proof" acceptable is a character explicitly performing "hypertime travel."

This isn't a formal standard. lol
it's your own checklist born of circular reasoning. You've created a standard no example from another verse could pass unless you arbitrarily approve it. It's gatekeeping with no authority behind it.

Let me explain what a Hypertimeline actually is:

A hypertimeline is a higher-order temporal construct, often represented in fiction through narratives where multiple entire timelines (not just "snapshots" or branches) are treated as mutable, accessible objects. It transcends the linear continuity of past, present, and future, operating instead on an extratemporal axis where timelines themselves become "locations" on a more expansive coordinate system.

Higher-dimensional time in physical models like 2T Physics, where a second temporal dimension allows for reconfigurations of reality not bound by singular progression. Hypertime exists when characters move between wholly separate timelines without causally following one another, or when states of existence outside time influence, collapse, or restore timelines.

This is exactly what Sonic games demonstrate repeatedly.

Claiming Sonic doesn't qualify because he doesn't "hyperjump" between snapshots. Sonic literally does exactly that in Sonic CD, where he reaches light speed on his own, traverses time without chaos emeralds or external tech, and warps to eras that are causally detached. He intentionally shifts between discrete, fully-formed timelines (Bad Future, Good Future, and Past) influencing entire worldlines, not isolated events.

This is not simple causality; it's time travel layered onto timeline alteration and with each shift, the timeline overwrites itself. That's hypertime traversal by definition.

In Generations, Time Eater devours the timeline in all directions: past, present, and future simultaneously.

What replaces it? A pure void, also known as the White Space, devoid of time, space, and concepts.

That's a state prior to existence of all space-time. M. Sonic and C. Sonic run through the absent time, restoring not events but entire structural constants of reality. They accelerate through broken spacetime and restores existence itself.
And the timeline isn't reversed, it's reinstantiated. Sonic literally rebuilds causal architecture with speed alone.

Also, about Sonic '06 and Solaris. The lad wasn't just destroying timelines, he was collapsing existence across all timeframes simultaneously. The present, future, and past all crumble.

Crisis City, an entire timeline segment that no longer exists is still targeted and annihilated in both scenarios. Solaris exists in a state of atemporal simultaneity, meaning all time happens to him at once, and he acts across that spread. This isn't also theoretical; it's stated outright. The only way to beat him was to blow out his flame at the very inception of time, thus nullifying every thread he ever touched.
It wasn't just about "restoring" everything, but rather defeating Solaris (who was overpowering them.)

Also, Sonic doesn't require anything for time travel. He has done so independently, as CD proves. When he does use them in Generations or 06, it's either to amplify his power or to coordinate with others (like Shadow and Silver)

It's no different than CC Goku time-traveling via speed. Or nobody cries foul about B. Goku using a time ring to explore Hypertimeline.

As well in higher-dimensional modeling of time, as used in theoretical physics and metaphysics, we distinguish between:

Discrete time: tn = t0 + nΔt — every "tick" is separate, indexed like points in a database. Think of standard branching timelines.

Continuous time: t ∈ ℝ — infinitely divisible, no gaps, allows infinite values between t1 and t2. A timeline becomes a manifold.

Hypertime: The very set of timelines {t0, t1, ..., tn} becomes itself an indexable structure (a timeline of timelines.) You are no longer within time, you are operating on time.

You may know that lower dimensions cannot fully express the higher ones, they are shadows. Sonic operating in hypertime is a higher-order, influence and restructure the reality (as his actions a feat only possible from a position outside of time-bound causality.)

You claimed if Sonic had true hypertime access, he'd use it like a reset button. But that assumes time is a game mechanic—it's not. Sonic's stories are written to preserve tension. And that's the argument from silence fallacy, you argue from lack of abuse, not lack of ability. Sonic is not Bulma or any average person. He doesn't need a capsule to beat a concept.

Anyways, that's all about it. I'll be folowing to see the results Ig?

 

[Theuser789]

I heavily disagree.

You claim a Hypertimeline must consist of "hypersnapshots" of timelines connected through a higher temporal axis, and that the only "proof" acceptable is a character explicitly performing "hypertime travel."

This isn't a formal standard. lol
it's your own checklist born of circular reasoning. You've created a standard no example from another verse could pass unless you arbitrarily approve it. It's gatekeeping with no authority behind it.

Let me explain what a Hypertimeline actually is:




Higher-dimensional time in physical models like 2T Physics, where a second temporal dimension allows for reconfigurations of reality not bound by singular progression. Hypertime exists when characters move between wholly separate timelines without causally following one another, or when states of existence outside time influence, collapse, or restore timelines.

This is exactly what Sonic games demonstrate repeatedly.

Claiming Sonic doesn't qualify because he doesn't "hyperjump" between snapshots. Sonic literally does exactly that in Sonic CD, where he reaches light speed on his own, traverses time without chaos emeralds or external tech, and warps to eras that are causally detached. He intentionally shifts between discrete, fully-formed timelines (Bad Future, Good Future, and Past) influencing entire worldlines, not isolated events.

This is not simple causality; it's time travel layered onto timeline alteration and with each shift, the timeline overwrites itself. That's hypertime traversal by definition.

In Generations, Time Eater devours the timeline in all directions: past, present, and future simultaneously.

What replaces it? A pure void, also known as the White Space, devoid of time, space, and concepts.

That's a state prior to existence of all space-time. M. Sonic and C. Sonic run through the absent time, restoring not events but entire structural constants of reality. They accelerate through broken spacetime and restores existence itself.
And the timeline isn't reversed, it's reinstantiated. Sonic literally rebuilds causal architecture with speed alone.

Also, about Sonic '06 and Solaris. The lad wasn't just destroying timelines, he was collapsing existence across all timeframes simultaneously. The present, future, and past all crumble.

Crisis City, an entire timeline segment that no longer exists is still targeted and annihilated in both scenarios. Solaris exists in a state of atemporal simultaneity, meaning all time happens to him at once, and he acts across that spread. This isn't also theoretical; it's stated outright. The only way to beat him was to blow out his flame at the very inception of time, thus nullifying every thread he ever touched.
It wasn't just about "restoring" everything, but rather defeating Solaris (who was overpowering them.)

Also, Sonic doesn't require anything for time travel. He has done so independently, as CD proves. When he does use them in Generations or 06, it's either to amplify his power or to coordinate with others (like Shadow and Silver)

It's no different than CC Goku time-traveling via speed. Or nobody cries foul about B. Goku using a time ring to explore Hypertimeline.

As well in higher-dimensional modeling of time, as used in theoretical physics and metaphysics, we distinguish between:








You may know that lower dimensions cannot fully express the higher ones, they are shadows. Sonic operating in hypertime is a higher-order, influence and restructure the reality (as his actions a feat only possible from a position outside of time-bound causality.)

You claimed if Sonic had true hypertime access, he'd use it like a reset button. But that assumes time is a game mechanic—it's not. Sonic's stories are written to preserve tension. And that's the argument from silence fallacy, you argue from lack of abuse, not lack of ability. Sonic is not Bulma or any average person. He doesn't need a capsule to beat a concept.

Anyways, that's all about it. I'll be folowing to see the results Ig?

I disagree with OP for the reasons in this post, and to add up:

then why didn't they use this hypertime travel at the end of the game?

Classic Sonic and Tails literally do time travel to their time to fix everything, even the Tails dialogue you linked says they need to go back to their time to restore their timeline:

 

[ShakeResounding]

Your standards for hypertime are wrong in several places, such as your use of terminology, so I'm not going to put to much time into this. I'm just going to debunk some very dubious claims you're making.

Evaluating the Supposed Evidence​

1. Sonic x Shadow Generations​

The first given example is that of the two Sonics restoring the multiverse in Sonic Generations. However, time travel is never said or indicated to be the method Sonic uses to restore his multiverse. The game explains that the two Sonics are restoring spacetime by using their speed to restore the dimensional energy that was drained by the Time Eater. While they do run back in time, that's not them using time travel to go to an entirely different "hypersnapshot" where the timelines weren't destroyed yet, not even close.

This entire section is pointless because you misunderstood where I'm claiming the Time Travel is happening.

The TT relevant to this situation doesn't take place when they're running, it happens between the defeat of the Time Eater and the restoration of reality. If Sonic declares "Time travel!", then I'm going to actually listen to what's said and inferred in the game.

The idea that the Sonics used "hypertime travel" falls even further apart under this very simple question: If they really were using hyper time travel, why didn't they just rewind to a hypersnapshot before Time Eater absorbed all of the dimensional energy?

Uh... because jumping back in time to fix the problem doesn't actually deal with the monster that caused it to begin with??

And even if they had some convoluted reason not to do so, then why didn't they use this hypertime travel at the end of the game? The timelines were still broken when the classic and modern characters were partying together, so they had not in fact traveled to a previously existing "hypersnapshot" where the timelines were fixed. It makes no sense.

Because of what Professor Gerald stated in Shadow Generations. Time was beginning to heal itself after the Time Eater's defeat because most of the work was already done for it by Sonic, Classic, and Shadow.

There's no need to travel further in time, the problem is literally already solved and the rest of the work is out of their hands now.

These last two issues are literally irrelevant, you're just posing the question of "Why didn't they do THIS?" except the answer to both is self-explanatory.

Now, I will point out that the blog cites the fact that Sonic says "Time travel!" at the end of the game when reflecting on the fact that even after all the stuff he did over the course of Generations, his chili dog was still warm. But does that mean that time travel was the method used to go from one hypersnapshot to another? No, that's a huge stretch and there's no reason to interpret it that way.

So instead of believing a character that actually lived through the experience, I should just listen to your interpretation.

What User said here...

I disagree with OP for the reasons in this post, and to add up:

Classic Sonic and Tails literally do time travel to their time to fix everything, even the Tails dialogue you linked says they need to go back to their time to restore their timeline:

... is more than enough here.

All this means is that all the weird things Sonic did running through time made it so that he looped back to the same moment in time (not an entire hypersnapshot, but a normal snapshot, as the timelines were still damaged as I pointed out above) even though it felt like a long time from his perspective. The fact that the timeline is still damaged directly contradicts the idea that Sonic just used hypertime travel to get back to the same hypersnapshot to eat his chili dog while it was still warm because it actually wasn't the same hypersnapshot.

Those aren't contradictory. Time itself was erased, and Shadow Gens confirms that it can start healing the more that Sonic/Classic/Shadow run around

The verse already establishes that messing with time in such a severe way will cause untold issues that the timeline must repair itself from (with help).

2. Sonic '06​

This one's simpler to explain. The blog says that since the story, which involved the repairing of damaged timelines, was referred to as a time travel story, it must have been time travel that caused the repair of the damaged timelines. But that interpretation doesn't really make any sense. Time travel occurs multiple times throughout the game without repairing the timelines Ex: Eggman sending Sonic to the future, Silver traveling back to the present, and Shadow traveling to the past. When time travel happens, it doesn't repairs the timelines.

Because there's... nothing to repair.

Secondly: You shift and start making a false claim that the interpretation listed is that Time Travel itself should always heal the timeline. But that is just not at all true, nor accurate.

The argument is that time travel was used after Solaris was blown out of existence to undo any effects either Mephiles or Iblis had on Sonic's timeline. Evidenced by Princess Elise and the entire ending of her forgetting Sonic.

Seriously, why are you listing false scenarios that don't make any logical sense?

On the contrary, it's them blowing out Solaris's flame that restores the timeline. Even right before they blew out Solaris's flame in the past, the timelines were still damaged. There was no point in the story where they just used "hyper time travel" to go back to a hypersnapshot in hypertime where the timelines were still intact.

That wasn't my argument so this doesn't help you. You're arguing against a ghost.

And as an aside, the hypertimeline interpretation of Sonic '06 really does pose the same problem as in Generations where if hypertime travel really was a thing, they could just reverse any and all bad things that happen during the story.

You would be the shittiest hero ever.

Just because you jump forward or backwards in time doesn't mean you are actually STOPPING the things that are CAUSING the issues of the plot. Especially considering Mephiles can Time Travel to follow??

Again, this is just saying "Why did the heroes not just up and run away from their problems?", which is a stupid question.

3. Sonic Prime
This one's the easiest to cover. In Sonic Prime, Sonic uses the Paradox Prism to restore his universe before its spacetime was messed up. But this simply isn't time travel, it's just using magic to restore a multiverse. That's obviously not proof of a hypertimeline.

"Using magic to restore a multiverse" is your unfounded headcanon with even less explanatory power.

The ending of the show and the reversal of the Shatterverse's existence is a plain by the ending, as none of Sonic's friends seem to be too mad about Sonic destroying reality. Waving your hand and saying "It was magic" is unironically worse.

In cases where Sonic mentions time travel to explain why his chili dog is still warm, where time travel is mentioned as an important part of the story, and even in cases where the blog can't even cite any mentions of time travel, the blog assumes without good reason that time travel must have also been the mechanism by which timelines were restored in these stories.

It doesn't take that much looking to figure out that yes, these methods were done via time travel and it's blatantly obvious that it did when factored in with the plot of the stories mentioned. You just have logical issues with it.

I am questioning the legitimacy of this thread when you've repeatedly misconstrued arguments used to try and make people look stupid.

Either you have no idea what you're talking about because you rushed through the explanations, or you're trying your best to topple a strawman.

 

[KLOL506]

@Maverick_Zero_X @Planck69 @Starter_Pack @Elizhaa @ElixirBlue @CloverDragon03 @Eseseso @Starbrand_Fan @Migue79 Your input here would be appreciated

 

[JJSliderman]

I agree with the OP that the evidence from Shadow Gens doesn’t really hold up, the game makes it more likely that Sonic is literally recreating time rather than time traveling back to earlier snapshots.

The Sonic Prime instance is weird, because the prism clearly did affect time (what with the shatterspaces all having different flows of time), so the fact that the prism’s restoration could rewind the universe back to the original flow of time could be an instance of traveling to a new hypersnapshot, but it could also just be seen as restoring time, so idk.

The ‘06 thing I think is fine as hypertime evidence though, they specifically time traveled back to a point before Solaris wiped out “all of space-time” in order to blow out a younger version of Solaris, a version that existed prior to the boss form of Solaris (despite that version of Solaris existing along all of time), meaning they did travel to a hypersnapshot prior to the the timeline they were in.

I’m not really that much of an expert on hypertime but; based on other verses that have it here I’d say it’s…decent; as it stands. I’m neutral, leaning towards disagree with removing it, but I understand the concerns.

 

[JJSliderman]

No, 5-D is from the argument that one of Eggman's worlds has a tesseract in it (4D spatial + 1D temporal). It's not really related to the hypertimeline stuff (but it is something I plan to target after this thread)

I think I have more evidence for that, Crossworlds coming out might either add an extra dimension via aleph-1 or at least solidify the existing one.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Disagree FRA

 

[Eseseso]

Neon and Shake make sense.

 

[SneakyTurtle-0]

Disagree FRA

 

[Alexander]

The Sonic Prime instance is weird, because the prism clearly did affect time (what with the shatterspaces all having different flows of time), so the fact that the prism’s restoration could rewind the universe back to the original flow of time could be an instance of traveling to a new hypersnapshot, but it could also just be seen as restoring time, so idk.

Time was not broken, it was the universe that was broken, the paradox prism fixed the universe (and also, allowed the other universes to exists)

 

[Starsprite53]

Claiming Sonic doesn't qualify because he doesn't "hyperjump" between snapshots. Sonic literally does exactly that in Sonic CD, where he reaches light speed on his own, traverses time without chaos emeralds or external tech, and warps to eras that are causally detached. He intentionally shifts between discrete, fully-formed timelines (Bad Future, Good Future, and Past) influencing entire worldlines, not isolated events.

This is not simple causality; it's time travel layered onto timeline alteration and with each shift, the timeline overwrites itself. That's hypertime traversal by definition.

What the heck are you talking about here? All of this is just basic as frog time travel shenanigans.
"Without external tech" and then your own scan proceeds to say "When you run into the warp standby state, Sonic will draw a tail of light. When you reach lightspeed for a period of time, the warp panel will flicker and if you sustain it, the warp will begin"
"Fully-formed timelines" multiple sources including your own scan talk about simple time travel within a singular timeline, saying they are alternate timelines will make the lore of the game contradictory. Sonic’s time travel in CD is linear, his actions in the past directly alter the future of the same timeline (The game explicitly states that changing the past rewrites the future), not "worldlines" like what are you saying. Destroying Robotnik’s machines in the past creates a Good Future, and ailing to do so locks in the Bad Future (And let's not forget that Silver's future is constantly changing depending on what's happening in the present).

That's a state prior to existence of all space-time. M. Sonic and C. Sonic run through the absent time, restoring not events but entire structural constants of reality. They accelerate through broken spacetime and restores existence itself.
And the timeline isn't reversed, it's reinstantiated. Sonic literally rebuilds causal architecture with speed alone.

First, this is restoration
Second, "accelerating through time" is no longer a thing anymore due to the fact it's absent in the japanese version and the re-written english version, it's just happening because Sonic is moving (One of the Chao mini manga panels shows Sonic restoring the stages via riding a rocket, idk what else to say)
Third, even if it was the case, it's irrelevent to hypertimeline bs.

Also, about Sonic '06 and Solaris. The lad wasn't just destroying timelines, he was collapsing existence across all timeframes simultaneously. The present, future, and past all crumble.

That's temporal omnipresence + irrelevent.

annihilated in both scenarios

Crisis city existed in 06, did you check what you wrote you just wrote that for the sake of the argument? Also 06 stages were already non-existent, what brought there is a chain reaction caused by Time Eater damaging the time stream.

The only way to beat him was to blow out his flame at the very inception of time, thus nullifying every thread he ever touched.

"Very inception of time" and it's just the time period where Elise's father was working on project Solaris.

 

[Rutæhh]

what if we just remove the hypertimeline stuff for every verse (like i always been saying that i hate hypertimeline)

nobody on this wiki actually knows what a hypertimeline is, they just make stuff up

 

[Qawsedf234]

The ‘06 thing I think is fine as hypertime evidence though, they specifically time traveled back to a point before Solaris wiped out “all of space-time” in order to blow out a younger version of Solaris, a version that existed prior to the boss form of Solaris (despite that version of Solaris existing along all of time), meaning they did travel to a hypersnapshot prior to the the timeline they were in

When we talked about this last time, this was the major point of evidence. Sonic 06 was erased from the timeline and doesn't exist, but was still able to be recalled by the Time Eater. Being able to travel to non-existent timeline implies a secondary snapshot of the multiverse which supports a hypertimeline.

The Sonic Prime and Generation stuff was never good enough on their own without the Spnic 06 stuff.

 

[Alexander]

nobody on this wiki actually knows what a hypertimeline is, they just make stuff up

more like what bothers me is the fact that they have to go with that amount of interpretation instead of finding something MORE SOLID.
like a actual statement for it, instead of a massive interpretation that requires to many assumptions and not just admit, that maybe, just maybe, the creator is just bad at dealing with time travel shit (like any sensible creator of any fictional work, is).
same problem with dragon ball for me, and any other verse, we assume that this is intentional and is not just a plot problem (like the 12 universes having their own space-times and still all of them are affected by time travel...HYPERTIMELINE, they say, instead of admitting that the creator made a mistake)

 

[Theuser789]

"When you run into the warp standby state, Sonic will draw a tail of light. When you reach lightspeed for a period of time, the warp panel will flicker and if you sustain it, the warp will begin"

The time posts are just gameplay mechanics, they aren't the reason Sonic can time travel. At best, they are just guides on what time period Sonic is time travelling to, not the reason he can time travel in the first place.

 

[StormAcci]

We should remove Hypertimelines, NOW! Shake's arguments make sense to me, leaning towards disagreeing with OP.

 

[JJSliderman]

"Very inception of time" and it's just the time period where Elise's father was working on project Solaris.

Either way they had to travel to a period before Solaris evolved, even though Solaris was a temporally omnipresent being so there wouldn’t be a period like that anymore unless they went to an earlier version of the entire timeline. Which is hypertime, I believe.

 

[Alexander]

When we talked about this last time, this was the major point of evidence. Sonic 06 was erased from the timeline and doesn't exist, but was still able to be recalled by the Time Eater. Being able to travel to non-existent timeline implies a secondary snapshot of the multiverse which supports a hypertimeline.

or is just implies that there is a non-existent realm (aka, White space)for that, somehow being non-existent implies there is a higher dimension of time even when it is said that it is non-existent?

 

[Qawsedf234]

or is just implies that there is a non-existent realm (aka, White space)for that, somehow being non-existent implies there is a higher dimension of time even when it is said that it is non-existent?

Having a higher time axis is still a hyper timeline. As you're have an infinite snapshot of infinite snapshots. The FAQ talks about it with different snapshots of the multiverse being traveled to or recalled.

 

[JJSliderman]

I would agree Solaris is the best and really main viable evidence for hypertime, yeah. His higher dimensional nature lends himself to things like that.

 

[Starsprite53]

The Sonic Prime instance is weird, because the prism clearly did affect time (what with the shatterspaces all having different flows of time), so the fact that the prism’s restoration could rewind the universe back to the original flow of time could be an instance of traveling to a new hypersnapshot, but it could also just be seen as restoring time, so idk.

I really don't understand how Sonic Prime is used as an evidence when there is no indication of Time Traveling, espacially when we know their universe was already restored.

The ‘06 thing I think is fine as hypertime evidence though, they specifically time traveled back to a point before Solaris wiped out “all of space-time” in order to blow out a younger version of Solaris, a version that existed prior to the boss form of Solaris (despite that version of Solaris existing along all of time), meaning they did travel to a hypersnapshot prior to the the timeline they were in.

It's funny because it was stated that time was restored/reset before Elise and Sonic went to the past, but I already thought that when a paradox happened after Elise soloing Solaris via wind manipulation, it was obvious it's within a singular linear timeline.

 

[Alexander]

Having a higher time axis is still a hyper timeline. As you're have an infinite snapshot of infinite snapshots. The FAQ talks about it with different snapshots of the multiverse being traveled to or recalled.

again, is just a non-existent realm, not a higher time realm, which just again, shows me that the hypertimeline thing is flawed and it only works if the work itself leans into that idea (by, i don't know, don't leave it ambiguous a weird?).

 

[Starsprite53]

Solaris was a temporally omnipresent

Yeah, and Solaris was also destroyed so....

 

[YmTheSuper]

nobody on this wiki actually knows what a hypertimeline is, they just make stuff up

I'd say it's more so an issue with wiki policy where people justify plot holes related to time travel or writers not understanding how time travel and timelines work with the verse having a hypertimeline despite the fact it's never mentioned or implied within the verse's Canon.

Although going by what's currently accepted this seems to fit the definition of a hypertimeline in the wiki.

 

[Alexander]

I really don't understand how Sonic Prime is used as an evidence when there is no indication of Time Traveling, espacially when we know their universe was already restored.

Sonic was sent a few seconds before he broke the paradox prism instead of being sent after he broke it

 

[Alexander]

I'd say it's more so an issue with wiki policy where people justify plot holes related to time travel or writers not understanding how time travel and timelines work with the verse having a hypertimeline despite the fact it's never mentioned or implied within the verse's Canon.

Although going by what's currently accepted this fits the definition of a hypertimeline.

THANK YOU, GRACIAS, MERCI, ありがとう

 

[Starsprite53]

recalled by the Time Eater.

It wasn't recalled by Time Eater (At least not directly, I guess)
But eitherway I won't care much about how this thread goes, I have two other threads in my priority.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, and Solaris was also destroyed so....

He was not, he still existed just without a consciousness.

 

[Starsprite53]

Sonic was sent a few seconds before he broke the paradox prism instead of being sent after he broke it

Yeah because the universe was restored due to Paradox prism getting fixed (said thing also effects time), and both Sonic and Shadow cannot Time travel on their own so...
Saying it's time travel is speculation and needs evidence because we only saw a scene of Shadow and Sonic entering the gateway of their world.

 

[SweetDao]

I'd say it's more so an issue with wiki policy where people justify plot holes related to time travel or writers not understanding how time travel and timelines work with the verse having a hypertimeline despite the fact it's never mentioned or implied within the verse's Canon.

Although going by what's currently accepted this seems to fit the definition of a hypertimeline in the wiki.

goated