Need help revamping block tales

So after playing block tales i decided to check the wiki because i was curious on its scaling. Unfortunately the verse page seems to have disappeared and the only thing here was an outdated page for the player. I decided i'd scale the verse myself(currently making a page for the player) and found some feats that seem to have alot of potential however i need someone to calc them (i don't feel like calcing them).

Cruel king makes a mountain spanning snowstorm: The ice king is implied to have used the ice dagger to cause a massive snowstorm in roadtown. The interesting thing about this is that in the objective page at 40:32 we can see the mountain that roadtown is on is covered in snow and if you look at the backround you can see other mountains covered as well.

Red and blue make a crater offscreen: The crator looks fairly massive and was implied to be caused by red and blue fighting shedletsky offscreen.

uncharged dynamite explosion 1: although this is chapter 2 because the dynamite used here isn't being charged i figured it would be ok to use since it should scale to the player in chapter 1

uncharged dynamite explosion 2:

The player dodges an ice explosion: lots of movement here. Could definitely see this qualifying for beyond baseline supersonic.



Anyone available?

 

[IDK3465]

Just a question tho, are you guys still interested in scaling block tales?

We’ve been discussing this thing with you for hours at this point, why the hell wouldn’t we be interested in having the verse on-site?

(I do have to say though, I will be pretty busy over the next week or so, so I won’t really be able to help with calcs or profiles for a good while, sorry about that)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Doesn’t a day-night cycle imply the existence of a sun? Wouldn’t that put the dream world at 4-C?

Technically yes, but I didn't wanna go all in on that since stars aren't shown more than implied so some people would find it iffy

at the very least it proves things like it having rotation and some form of space along with possibly a moon supporting 5-B+

 

[AppleMaker]

I'll try to calc some TNT feats and maybe Cruel King's storm

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I'll try to calc some TNT feats and maybe Cruel King's storm

The dynamite feats would be nice for early game but one feat I feel strongly passionate about needing to be calced is this feat

Feat: player dodges point blank ice explosions

Feel like its calcable since with the dodge animation we can assume the player leaps outside the explosions radius.

we also see no movement until the moment of impact further boosting the scaling

Personally this is at least hypersonic in my opinion but we need actually accepted calcs so until then its just supporting evidence for supersonic+ block tales

 

[AppleMaker]

Honestly I have no idea how to calc weather feats and area of snow, since it covered only top of the mountains (I guess I could count amount of mountains, pixel scale how much snow have covered it and add it to standard snow storm calc from common feats)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Honestly I have no idea how to calc weather feats and area of snow, since it covered only top of the mountains (I guess I could count amount of mountains, pixel scale how much snow have covered it and add it to standard snow storm calc from common feats)

Anything that works

 

[AppleMaker]

The dynamite feats would be nice for early game but one feat I feel strongly passionate about needing to be calced is this feat

Feat: player dodges point blank ice explosions

I guess it should be treated as an average explosion, or maybe something like a timeframe for liquid nitrogen to freeze something

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I guess it should be treated as an average explosion, or maybe something like a timeframe for liquid nitrogen to freeze something

Just try making seperate calcs for both to see what happens

I'll work on fixing the players LS since ball feats don't seem as consistent and simple anymore. I also have some skill feats to add for their analytical prediction

 

[AppleMaker]

I guess it should be treated as an average explosion, or maybe something like a timeframe for liquid nitrogen to freeze something

Unfortunately I have to get rid of explosion method, since in official "Explosion speed calculation" said that it not applicable for supernatural powers

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Unfortunately I have to get rid of explosion method, since in official "Explosion speed calculation" said that it not applicable for supernatural powers

That sucks

Use the other method ig

 

[IDK3465]

Wouldn’t it be best if this got moved to general discussion? As this thread is it isn’t really a CRT, so it’ll probably be better there

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Wouldn’t it be best if this got moved to general discussion? As this thread is it isn’t really a CRT, so it’ll probably be better there

Yeah (I made this back when I was newer to the wiki and was curious on roblox scaling so mb for the placement)

 

[AppleMaker]

Also I found a new calc method for this ice explosion. Basically use this as a reference for timeframe (since liquid nitrogen is not that instant)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Also I found a new calc method for this ice explosion. Basically use this as a reference for timeframe (since liquid nitrogen is not that instant)

Seems like a better basis since this is ice we're talking about here

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Fixed the players LS justifications (I think)

Basically used the idea that they can block attacks while both maintaining their stature (not getting block broken) and not getting flung away from taking city or even planet lvl Mountains of force

 

[IDK3465]

Fixed the players LS justifications (I think)

Basically used the idea that they can block attacks while both maintaining their stature (not getting block broken) and not getting flung away from taking city or even planet lvl Mountains of force

I’ve said this once and I’ll say it again, Calc Stacking

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I’ve said this once and I’ll say it again, Calc Stacking

While using ball could be argued as calc stacking, blocking shouldn't be considered calc stacking since its more of a direct feat that doesn't rely on anything beyond strictly ap.

There's no assumptions involved or anything. All that's needed is to prove the ancients have planet lvl ap and they do through scaling to the firebrand.

 

[IDK3465]

While using ball could be argued as calc stacking, blocking shouldn't be considered calc stacking since its more of a direct feat that doesn't rely on anything beyond strictly ap.

There's no assumptions involved or anything. All that's needed is to prove the ancients have planet lvl ap and they do through scaling to the firebrand.

That isn’t the problem here. The problem is using results from a completely unrelated feat to justify the results of another, and unless if a result is completely consistent and doesn’t change, (like the sizes of characters/objects) then it isn’t usable in other calcs.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

That isn’t the problem here. The problem is using results from a completely unrelated feat to justify the results of another, and unless if a result is completely consistent and doesn’t change, (like the sizes of characters/objects) then it isn’t usable in other calcs.

But the problem tho is that it doesn't change. They've always been able to block attacks from enemies comparable to them from prologue.

The only exceptions are gags (like the turkeys gun move) and attacks that the game itself acknowledges are way too strong to be tanked (like hatreds charge attack)

 

[IDK3465]

But the problem tho is that it doesn't change. They've always been able to block attacks from enemies comparable to them from prologue.

The only exceptions are gags (like the turkeys gun move) and attacks that the game itself acknowledges are way too strong to be tanked (like hatreds charge attack)

I’m not referring to the fact that the player can block attacks, I’m referring to the AP of the enemies.

You can’t confirm how much actual energy is displayed in a given attack the same way you can’t confirm exactly how fast a character runs at a given time without some kind of statement. You simply can’t use scaling as a justification in calcs, you just have to go with what the feat itself shows you, no amount of “oh, but he’s comparable to this guy who did this thing against this other guy-“ can be used in a calc. Again, READ THE CALC STACKING PAGE, that explains in much better detail than I can regarding why this is wrong

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I’m not referring to the fact that the player can block attacks, I’m referring to the AP of the enemies.

You said it wasn't a consistent metric to use blocking attacks when they've been shown to operate this way since the very beginning

You can’t confirm how much actual energy is displayed in a given attack the same way you can’t confirm exactly how fast a character runs at a given time without some kind of statement.

Yes you can that's what feats and ap are for...in their case though it's technically through statements and scaling since the attacks through statements would be that strong

You simply can’t use scaling as a justification in calcs,

yes you can we do this with other metrics as well

for example one can find statements and scaling to get an atk to ftl and then calc a character based an their reactions to said attack and as long as the character in question has established consistency with scaling above the attack its viable on the wiki

you just have to go with what the feat itself shows you,

the feat itself shows me a character blocking a planet lvl+ attack through physicals...

no amount of “oh, but he’s comparable to this guy who did this thing against this other guy-“ can be used in a calc.

The arg is that the atk is exerting planet+ lvl amounts of force which when converted gives class Y. Since the player deflects this with physicals they scale to it.

Again, READ THE CALC STACKING PAGE, that explains in much better detail than I can regarding why this is wrong

the calc stacking page doesn't say much of anything to suggest this is actually even calc stacking tho?

- We're using a consistent metric that would correlate to their LS

- Said feat isn't a one off feat since they do this to any character with any attack reletive to their ap

- The verse acknowledges when an attack can't be blocked with something that serves as good reason

- This method of scaling is ridiculously simple and isn't long at all which contradicts the nature of calc stacking

- the verse has already been shown to operate this way

 

[IDK3465]

You said it wasn't a consistent metric to use blocking attacks when they've been shown to operate this way since the very beginning

Yes you can that's what feats and ap are for...in their case though it's technically through statements and scaling since the attacks through statements would be that strong

yes you can we do this with other metrics as well

for example one can find statements and scaling to get an atk to ftl and then calc a character based an their reactions to said attack and as long as the character in question has established consistency with scaling above the attack its viable on the wiki

the feat itself shows me a character blocking a planet lvl+ attack through physicals...

The arg is that the atk is exerting planet+ lvl amounts of force which when converted gives class Y. Since the player deflects this with physicals they scale to it.

the calc stacking page doesn't say much of anything to suggest this is actually even calc stacking tho?

- We're using a consistent metric that would correlate to their LS

- Said feat isn't a one off feat since they do this to any character with any attack reletive to their ap

- The verse acknowledges when an attack can't be blocked with something that serves as good reason

- This method of scaling is ridiculously simple and isn't long at all which contradicts the nature of calc stacking

- the verse has already been shown to operate this way

Y’know what, just ask a calc group member about this and see what they think, even though I’m 99% sure this is wrong, I’m just too tired to keep arguing about this, so just ask one on their message wall and come back to me later about what they say.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Y’know what, just ask a calc group member about this and see what they think, even though I’m 99% sure this is wrong, I’m just too tired to keep arguing about this, so just ask one on their message wall and come back to me later about what they say.

mk

 

[Delusionaltx2]

@AppleMaker What the progress for the calc looking like?

 

[AppleMaker]

Well, I haven't done anything yet, sorry

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Well, I haven't done anything yet, sorry

That's fine just askkng

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Gonna need the dynamite explosions to get calced. Anyone available?

 

[AppleMaker]

Probably gonna do it tomorrow or after few hours (if I won't fall asleep)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Mk made some changes

Dunno if the class Y stuff will even be accepted but I decided it would be better to just stick with the other stuff (like the puzzles) for now since the whole thing with blocking looks alot more assumption based than I realized (at least from the. creatos POV)

if it does get accepted then i'll list it with a "possibly" behind it

Also changed prologue to 9B since that feels more consistent

 

[Delusionaltx2]

@AppleMaker Calc this instead dw abt the cruel king stuff

Afterwards calc these 3 dynamite explosions

they'll be useful for demo 1

 

[AppleMaker]

Tomorrow I'll be BFR'd for 1 day at least. My family decided to go for a trip

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Alright so I have a list of basically all the feats that need to get calced

Prologue: Red and blue make a massive crater,
Demo 1: Supreme ant used dig! (LS Feat), Sentient Statue KE (Ap feat), Sentient Statues crushing weight (LS feat that relies on the speed of the previous calc), Dynamite explosion 1, Dynamite explosion 2, Cruel kings Mountain spanning snowstorm (AP feats)
Demo 2: Tree golem jump slam(LS feat), Greifer tendrills the ground (LS feat)
Demo 3: Player pushes around some stone statues(LS feat)
Demo 4: Player moves a giant cube(LS feat), Temple guardian breaks the floor(Potential LS feat)


Might have a possibly class Z feat (them surviving the warping of mental world without being crushed or even effected) for demo 3

Would only be a possibly feat tho

 

[Delusionaltx2]

@IDK3465 since apple maker is gonna be unavailable for a bit I want ur opinion on this

 

[IDK3465]

@IDK3465 since apple maker is gonna be unavailable for a bit I want ur opinion on this

Uh, ok

• Red and Blue’s feat isn’t the most reliable as we don’t know how long they were fighting for or how the crater was actually made, could’ve easily been done in multiple hits.
• I don’t really know if you can properly calculate the Supreme Ant’s and the Griefer’s feats, and even if you could, it probably wouldn’t be that impressive.
• The Temple Guardian’s feat wouldn’t really apply to LS as it’s more of a strike than actually pushing or crushing the floor.
• The Dream world thing is straight up false as it wasn’t actually destroyed (you can literally go back there any time you want after chap. 3) and even if it was, we’d have no idea how it got destroyed, so we have no reason to believe it was crushed.

Other than that though, all these feats are legit and can be calced.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Uh, ok

• Red and Blue’s feat isn’t the most reliable as we don’t know how long they were fighting for or how the crater was actually made, could’ve easily been done in multiple hits.

The fight lasted just short enough to where not everyone was able to escape roblox hq in that time although we don't actually know how much hits it took so maybe they downscale?

• I don’t really know if you can properly calculate the Supreme Ant’s and the Griefer’s feats, and even if you could, it probably wouldn’t be that impressive.

On vsb you can calc digging feats for LS and in supreme ants case she's digging through frozen rock which i could def see reaching class 39 or smth but yeah ur right its not that impressive

• The Temple Guardian’s feat wouldn’t really apply to LS as it’s more of a strike than actually pushing or crushing the floor.

 hmm I figured since he was smashing the ground you could apply this feat to LS

• The Dream world thing is straight up false as it wasn’t actually destroyed (you can literally go back there any time you want after chap. 3) and even if it was, we’d have no idea how it got destroyed, so we have no reason to believe it was crushed.

yeah It wasn't destroyed just warped

The point is that since giving in makes the world itself literally revolve and spin around you then its gravity would also be effected and since the player is uneffected by this they could potentially scale in LS

although again bcuz of how insane the jump is and how much harder it seems to justify compared to ap its more of a possibly feat than anything

Other than that though, all these feats are legit and can be calced.

thanks for the input

 

[IDK3465]

The fight lasted just short enough to where not everyone was able to escape roblox hq in that time although we don't actually know how much hits it took so maybe they downscale?

I suppose that’s fair, but it would probably only be listed as a “possibly” in that case. Still a decent support feat, but is still kinda vague in various ways.

On vsb you can calc digging feats for LS and in supreme ants case she's digging through frozen rock which i could def see reaching class 39 or smth but yeah ur right its not that impressive

Actually, now that i think of it a little more, I think it can probably be calculated via the tensile strength from tearing the edges of the hole apart, but idk. Again, the feat’s just a little vague for me to be 100% sure

 hmm I figured since he was smashing the ground you could apply this feat to LS

There’s a BIG difference between LS and SS and, while there isn’t a proper consensus on what that is, I tend to define it as weather or not the force is initially applied directly on the object in question.

For example, jumping does count for LS because the force of the character’s legs starts off directly against the ground, compare this to kicking the ground and using the recoil to propel oneself, which doesn’t count because the force is being applied before the character touches the ground. In the Gaurdian’s case, the force being applied isn’t initially upon the ground, but in mid-air only to crash into the ground. You could probably use the force of the Guardian jumping up, but that’s probably it tbh.

yeah It wasn't destroyed just warped

The point is that since giving in makes the world itself literally revolve and spin around you then its gravity would also be effected and since the player is uneffected by this they could potentially scale in LS

although again bcuz of how insane the jump is and how much harder it seems to justify compared to ap its more of a possibly feat than anything

Yeah, that’s much more fair, but it still would just be a “possibly” due to the line not being clear on if it’s to be taken literally, or just a flowery way of saying the player’s getting dizzy.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I suppose that’s fair, but it would probably only be listed as a “possibly” in that case. Still a decent support feat, but is still kinda vague in various ways.

Kinda where I was originally going with this but glad to see you agree

Actually, now that i think of it a little more, I think it can probably be calculated via the tensile strength from tearing the edges of the hole apart, but idk. Again, the feat’s just a little vague for me to be 100% sure

yeah something like that could work

There’s a BIG difference between LS and SS and, while there isn’t a proper consensus on what that is, I tend to define it as weather or not the force is initially applied directly on the object in question.

For example, jumping does count for LS because the force of the character’s legs starts off directly against the ground, compare this to kicking the ground and using the recoil to propel oneself, which doesn’t count because the force is being applied before the character touches the ground. In the Gaurdian’s case, the force being applied isn’t initially upon the ground, but in mid-air only to crash into the ground. You could probably use the force of the Guardian jumping up, but that’s probably it tbh.

Hmm guess that makes sense. (might not be that impressive tho)

Yeah, that’s much more fair, but it still would just be a “possibly” due to the line not being clear on if it’s to be taken literally, or just a flowery way of saying the player’s getting dizzy.

Considering how everytime this happens the world literally changes I think its def fair to consider this as literal

The player can also walk into the residences of each emotion perfectly fine so its very unlikely they were actually dizzy

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Moving on ig we can move on with abilities

Delusionaltx2/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

I basically have all of them down accept stuff for their Analytical prediction (not finished yet)

@IDK3465

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Also ignore the picture for jbt i'm fixing it atm

edit: fixed

 

[IDK3465]

Moving on ig we can move on with abilities

Delusionaltx2/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

I basically have all of them down accept stuff for their Analytical prediction (not finished yet)

@IDK3465

I've gone through the blog, and I think you did a great job overall with everything. However, I have some minor nitpicks:

• The general info about them, rather than just listing as Unknown, should be listed as Varies (depending on player choice), and all their nicknames shouldn't be in the classification area, but in the name section.
• This is kinda minor, but the way the different keys are laid out implies that the player is the same level of strength for all of chapters 1, 2, and 4 respectively, when that is certainly not the case (ex: the player in chapter 1 grows from 9-A, being comparable to dynamite, to 7-B due to fighting the king)
  • The way I'd go about this is something like: Prologue | Early - Mid Demo 1 | Late Demo 1 - Mid Demo 2 | Late Demo 2 - Demo 3 (Pre-ghost walker) | Demo 3 (Post-ghost walker) - Mid Demo 4 | Late - Post Demo 4
• For all the times the profile says "look at this blog for more info," it'd probably be better to have that in a Notes section so as not to clutter the page
• A few issues with some abilities and where they're listed:
  • The player doesn't have weapon creation, just hammerspace
  • Stuff like healing, explosion manip, size manip, sword energy, etc., should be moved from base to with items/swords
  • Prologue player should have Accelerated Development already due to being able to gain exp at all points in-game
  • Making explosion sounds doesn't mean you have explosion manip
  • Analytical Prediction doesn't really work as like, anyone can aim-dodge, you don't need some superhuman sense of prediction to step out the way of a moving train.
  • I'm on the fence about High-Godly, as simply having AE doesn't inherently mean that you get that level of regen; in fact, it's the opposite. It's having High-Godly regen that helps get you AE, and in the case of Hatred, it's not the regen that helps grant AE, it's their immortality (hence why the player can still fight Hatred in Nirvana despite already killing and cleansing themselves of them)
  • Adding to this, there's no real reason for Hatred to be conceptual in nature. The way we define concepts on-site is basically something that defines the fundamental nature and qualities of whatever things it is connected to/applies to. Based on this, it's not true to say that Hatred is conceptual, as they never are implied to be the thing that defines hatred, they quite simply just ARE hatred.
• I also believe that the player post chapter 3 should straight up be 4-C, as not only is the Dream World confirmed to have a day and night (implying the existence of a sun), but Flocci is also stated to have "power amongst the stars", so it's pretty consistent