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Berserk: Speed Upgrades

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LegendariumOfLies said:
No he dodged multiple times and was hit once. Also, using an old+outffsite calc while we have an on-site calc which proves Serpico moves far faster.
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It only shows Guts reacting once, looking closely at the second panel, there is no evidence that Guts is dodging others, the lightning bolts are falling at the same time, however then Guts is being struck by lightning, even though he knew the lightning was coming.
LegendariumOfLies said:
And he was proven wrong 3 times. He also Ganishka couldn't be harmed and that turned out to be untrue. You are appealing to an authority that is unreliable.
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"The problem here is that Daiba didn't know about the Dragon Slayer, unlike his speed, where he is able to react and mark Guts on some occasions, If he is said to not be able to be faster than lightning, with Guts it would be no different."

I had already answered this, where is the other one? (Apart from the possible speed limit)

LegendariumOfLies said:
Leaving out the context, Serpico was in front of Guts. Guts didn't need a reason to move in the moment, he later is shown dodging lightning quite easily
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I've also answered this before, there was no reason for Guts not to dodge, the beam hits in an area, and it hit both Guts and Serpico, it was stated that it would kill him, Guts saw what the lightning did to Daiba, and yet, Guts having 23% more speed than the Lightning did not run away.
Guts didn't dodge easily, literally Guts is moving a few Meters while the lightning moves dozens of meters.

LegendariumOfLies said:
Then counterpoint, in the final arc of Demon Slayer, Kokushibo is unable to dodge shotgun pellets. Does that mean the entire verse should be downgraded?
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No?
Kokushibo is immobilized, and being constantly robbed of his power, Kokushibo deflects the bullets, they just bounce back, Kokushibo previously has a feat of being a few times faster than a bullet, the Verse has 2 Mhs+ feats, and several Mhs, by the regulations, this way there is no way to downgrade the verse to Supersonic.
The problem here is that Guts has a single Mhs+ feat, he was hit (I didn't say he should jump off Zodd, but rather that Guts could attract the lightning with his sword using speed).
LegendariumOfLies said:
Are we also ignoring the part were Zodd dodged lightning point-blank or is this an outlier to?
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I'm not seeing Mhs+ here 🗿
Lightning doesn't have a fixed trajectory, Zodd could simply not have dodged it, I even saw a member of the calculations saying that.
 
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Xaropadob3ta said:
It only shows Guts reacting once, looking closely at the second panel, there is no evidence that Guts is dodging others, the lightning bolts are falling at the same time, however then Guts is being struck by lightning, even though he knew the lightning was coming.

"The problem here is that Daiba didn't know about the Dragon Slayer, unlike his speed, where he is able to react and mark Guts on some occasions, If he is said to not be able to be faster than lightning, with Guts it would be no different."

I had already answered this, where is the other one? (Apart from the possible speed limit)


I've also answered this before, there was no reason for Guts not to dodge, the beam hits in an area, and it hit both Guts and Serpico, it was stated that it would kill him, Guts saw what the lightning did to Daiba, and yet, Guts having 23% more speed than the Lightning did not run away.
Guts didn't dodge easily, literally Guts is moving a few dozen centimeters while the lightning moves dozens of meters.


No?
Kokushibo is immobilized, and being constantly robbed of his power, Kokushibo deflects the bullets, they just bounce back, Kokushibo previously has a feat of being a few times faster than a bullet, the back has 2 Mhs+ feats, and several Mhs, by the regulations, this way there is no way to downgrade the verse to Supersonic.
The problem here is that Guts has a single Mhs+ feat, he was hit (I didn't say he should jump off Ganishka, but rather that Guts could attract the lightning with his sword using speed).

I'm not seeing Mhs+ here 🗿
Lightning doesn't have a fixed trajectory, Zodd could simply not have dodged it, I even saw a member of the calculations saying that.
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I have made my arguments clearly and repeatedly. You seem insistent to use Appeal to Authority and Appeal to Incredulity to downplay Berserk.
 
Xaropadob3ta said:
No?
Kokushibo is immobilized, and being constantly robbed of his power, Kokushibo deflects the bullets, they just bounce back, Kokushibo previously has a feat of being a few times faster than a bullet, the back has 2 Mhs+ feats, and several Mhs, by the regulations, this way there is no way to downgrade the verse to Supersonic.
The problem here is that Guts has a single Mhs+ feat, he was hit (I didn't say he should jump off Ganishka, but rather that Guts could attract the lightning with his sword using speed).
Click to expand...
To be fair, even if you are immobilized, it is not an excuse for this.
With a perception of 2000 mach, even a bullet with a speed of 2 mach will fly for you so long as if minutes pass.

It is just plot stupidity
 
Xaropadob3ta said:
No one answered me about this, Guts was marked 3 other times, dodged once (where results are not Mhs+, but around Mach 100) and reacted to this one, which for some reason is Mhs+.
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He got attacked by lightning 3 times, the first time Serpico blocked it, the second Guts dodged but since the lightning splits into a lot of directions he got hit afterwards from behind, Serpico also dodged the second and also blocked it again afterwards, and the third is the one where he stuck the sword into the ground. After that Zodd is also shown to dodge a lightning once.
Xaropadob3ta said:
And currently the speed difference between Guts and Serpico is about 6×, previously Guts was saved by him.
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Serpico just scales to Guts
 
ElJoaki5 said:
He got attacked by lightning 3 times, the first time Serpico blocked it, the second Guts dodged but since the lightning splits into a lot of directions he got hit afterwards from behind, Serpico also dodged the second and also blocked it again afterwards, and the third is the one where he stuck the sword into the ground. After that Zodd is also shown to dodge a lightning once.

Serpico just scales to Guts
Click to expand...
We got 1 admin vote by the way. We need one more before GRACE starts
 
Chariot190 said:
Tldr me.
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Sea God part has been accepted, so I'll side step that. The real debate is about upgrading Guts' Speed,
  • Upgrading Guts to MHS+ based on this calc, and this as a supporting calc. There are others but OP hasn't posted them
  • Current contention are the following:
Thats basically it. We have 1 agree, and 1 agree to Sea God upgrade but neutral towards Guts upgrade
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
Guts got tagged by lightning here therefore MHS+ is an outlier
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Why is Guts mid jump getting tagged by something from behind that is like the same speed as him a anti-feat?
He wouldn't be a fuckton quicker, the calc says he's only 1.6k, lightning itself can even go up to 7k. He'd be lightning speed all the same, there's nothing wrong with being hit by something you're like the same speed as, especially if context or circumstances justify it.

Would be like yapping a mach 1 dude can get hit with a bullet if he isn't careful. Or even a mach 100 dude chilling and then some random dude slaps them in the back of the head. Context matters, when Guts is actually focused on it, he, Zodd and Serpico all avoid Ganishka's bolts after they're fired.
LegendariumOfLies said:
And whatever this is (idk his argument. It seems to be Guts moving faster than his cannonball is somehow bad)
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The armcannon packed with so much bullshit that it's basically an explosion with enough KE to obliterfuck demons that can rip through buildings in one shot?
That he like exclusively uses point-blank and as a surprise attack and never at long-range?

His armcanon doesn't have an actual speed, it can be whatever speed it wants to be, it'd just scale if a fast character got tagged by it as it isn't a conventional cannon.

But the fact that isn't even true and I don't think it's ever tagged anyone worth a damn when not literally shoved up their ass this is not a metaphor it wouldn't matter?
Yeah Guts probably is faster than his armcannon, and if he used it at like 10m range against say Zodd, you'd bet your ass Zodd would Matrix that shit if I had to presume. It's like saying he has a crossbolt so he can't be faster than a arrow, even though he uses the crossbolt exclusively against fodder that he can't reach, and we know for a fact he can effortlessly blitz arrows as far back as Golden Age.

Lightning slop isn't a outlier for current manga.
If you were to try to backscale to say Golden Age or early Black Swordsman yeah it'd be sus, but now?
 
NikHelton said:
I have already given my consent to the update. Why haven't you made the changes to the profiles yet?
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Probably because need staff approval.
This shit is NOT a democracy even if it looks like one 👮‍♂️
 
We need one more staff and we're good. Technically, we already have approval for the Sea God Stuff, but let's be honest, Guts is the main stuff here.
 
Are we doing any specifications on these feats? I can see the Sea God one as Perception, Reaction, and Movement Speed. As for the Guts thing, Perception and Reaction Speed should be fine,
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Are we doing any specifications on these feats? I can see the Sea God one as Perception, Reaction, and Movement Speed. As for the Guts thing, Perception and Reaction Speed should be fine,
Click to expand...
Id say the movement in the Guts one is large enough to consider it combat speed. He has to stand, lift his sword and stab it into the ground.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
This kind of thing was supposed to be clarified in this CRT, which, of course, no one ever got around to.

@Damage3245 @FinePoint

Since you guys agreed on this, what do you think?
Click to expand...
Were it just stabbing his sword into the ground, I'd say Reaction Speed makes sense, but given he also had to get up first, it's probably fine for Combat Speed.
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
So, just to clear up who exactly scales to MHS+? Just Guts or are we going to try to scale the others as well?
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I'd think Serpico (at least downscales, he isn't to far off), Zodd (obvious), Skull Knight (murks Zodd) and Femto (Can react to both Guts and Skull Knight with zero issue).
Anyone else either doesn't, downscales a bit to much to be in the same ballpark or probably do just lack the feats tho (Like Slan) so unknown or possibly.
 
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