TF2 Upgrade Thread - Some small calc revisions and additions

[Bimbitesthedust]

Excellent. Gentlemen, synchronize your Profiles.
We have seventy hours to live. For most men, no time at all.
We are not most men.

We are mercenaries. We have the resources. The will. To make these hours count!

The clock is ticking, gentlemen. Let's begin.

TF2 has been getting a good amount of feats, either revising previous calcs or making new additions which is in time needed for application. but with no time to waste lets get to the calcs

REVISIONS

• Pyro survives a building explosion (8-C) (a recalc of this, another good physical feat for the mercs alongside people who scale above like Saxton Hale, etc)
• Vaporizing Robots (8-C+) (A recalc of this, should scale to mercs w laser weapons)

New Calcs

• Saxton Hale tanks a Volcano Eruption (8-C) (A new calc for Saxton Hale though it likely would be the bare minimum due to him being capable of killing the yeti that can stomp the mercs around and even in his own gamemode oneshot 7 out of the 9 mercs.
• Bear LS calc (I would say scales to the mercs, best with the heavy since the big man does fight them alongside scout, a naked soldier and pyro)

Current Scaling

So scaling is to keep a couple of things in mind

1) The mercs should have a relative field in ap and dura (with characters obviously differences in whos stronger, faster, etc) but generally the mercs do have atleast shown a good amount of 8-C feats.
2) Saxton Hale alongside other equally powerful characters show scale massively above due to characters like Saxton, The Headless Horseless Horseman and etc being capable of oneshotting the mercs or harming them greatly
3) The LS portion mainly scales to Heavy only

as a bare minimum characters like Saxton Hale, Headless Horseless Horseman should have atleast in their profiles

one thing to note is that the explosion calc on scout was done in the gravel war key meaning that he, the other mercs, etc should be considered more durable, stronger, etc. this may not be the last time but currently these are consistent and should be added and applied

Votes

Votes	Voters
Agree	@LegendariumOfLies, @Diamond_Drone (But LS Specific to Heavy), @DarkDragonMedeus (Staff), @Chritin, @IDK3465, @Rex_Eckles, @LandonTheGuy, @FinePoint (Staff)
Disagree

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

No 7-C?
Jokes aside 100% agree + follwoing.

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

No 7-C?
Jokes aside 100% agree + follwoing.

gotta start small before we go large

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

@Soupywolf5 input on this thread?

 

[LandonTheGuy]

Excellent. Gentlemen, synchronize your Profiles.
We have seventy hours to live. For most men, no time at all.
We are not most men.

We are mercenaries. We have the resources. The will. To make these hours count!

The clock is ticking, gentlemen. Let's begin.

TF2 has been getting a good amount of feats, either revising previous calcs or making new additions which is in time needed for application. but with no time to waste lets get to the calcs

REVISIONS

• Big Rocket Explosion (8-C+) (a recalc of this, should be the major feat currently for the mercenaries in terms of physical stats I.E AP, DURA, STRIKING, ETC)
• Pyro survives a building explosion (8-C) (a recalc of this, another good physical feat for the mercs alongside people who scale above like Saxton Hale, etc)
• Vaporizing Robots (8-C+) (A recalc of this, should scale to mercs w laser weapons)

New Calcs

• Saxton Hale tanks a Volcano Eruption (8-C) (A new calc for Saxton Hale though it likely would be the bare minimum due to him being capable of killing the yeti that can stomp the mercs around and even in his own gamemode oneshot 7 out of the 9 mercs.
• Soldier keeping up with Rockets (the first speed calc that can get the mercs to the level of Subsonic. Scales to most mercs outside of maybe heavy though combat and reaction could be possible)
• Bear LS calc (I would say scales to the mercs, best with the heavy since the big man does fight them alongside scout, a naked soldier and pyro)
• Manmelter Atomization (8-C) (same as the vaporizing robots calc)

Current Scaling

So scaling is to keep a couple of things in mind

1) The mercs should have a relative field in ap and dura (with characters obviously differences in whos stronger, faster, etc) but generally the mercs do have atleast shown a good amount of 8-C feats.
2) Saxton Hale alongside other equally powerful characters show scale massively above due to characters like Saxton, The Headless Horseless Horseman and etc being capable of oneshotting the mercs so ap and dura wise it should be like this

Low End - mercs (0.72 tons of tnt) <<< Saxton, HHH, etc (5.4 tons of TNT)

With the Big Rocket Explosion Calc

mercs (1.768904 tons of tnt) <<< Saxton, HHH, etc (13.26678 tons of TNT, capable of reaching baseline 8-B)

one thing to note is that the explosion calc on scout was done in the gravel war key meaning that he, the other mercs, etc should be considered more durable, stronger, etc. this may not be the last time but currently these are consistent and should be added and applied

Votes

Votes	Voters
Agree	@LegendariumOfLies
Disagree

i think we lack an atomization end of the robots with the manmelter btw

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Big Rocket Explosion (8-C+) (a recalc of this, should be the major feat currently for the mercenaries in terms of physical stats I.E AP, DURA, STRIKING, ETC)

That is NOT a recalc, that's a completely different explosion. I've had thought about for quite a while, my only complaint right now is that it assumes that every soldier in that army fires a rocket to create that massive explosion when there really isn't any indication of that beyond... a sound of what seems to be a singular rocket? (though with the feat occuring outside of our view, it's kinda difficult to discern any number of rockets being fired from such a distance)

Basically, I feel like this calc makes an assumption that allows it to have a "low end" which would also give it some consistency with the other calcs.

Soldier keeping up with Rockets (the first speed calc that can get the mercs to the level of Subsonic. Scales to most mercs outside of maybe heavy though combat and reaction could be possible)

Given how the Soldier moving in tandem is not the focus of the linked feat like... at all, I have a feeling that this might not get accepted here. Thankfully there is a game where rocket scaling works better due to having less projectiles and (thankfully) has a calc already: Team Fortress Classic!

The only problem is... the modern Team Fortress mercs don't fight the classic mercs until their Robot War/Australium Chase key, so it would only be applicable in that key and not in general.

1) The mercs should have a relative field in ap and dura (with characters obviously differences in whos stronger, faster, etc) but generally the mercs do have atleast shown a good amount of 8-C feats.
2) Saxton Hale alongside other equally powerful characters show scale massively above due to characters like Saxton, The Headless Horseless Horseman and etc being capable of oneshotting the mercs so ap and dura wise it should be like this

Low End - mercs (0.72 tons of tnt) <<< Saxton, HHH, etc (5.4 tons of TNT)

With the Big Rocket Explosion Calc

mercs (1.768904 tons of tnt) <<< Saxton, HHH, etc (13.26678 tons of TNT, capable of reaching baseline 8-B)

Is this based off the one-shot gap? 5.4 Tons happens to be 7.5x stronger than the 0.72 Ton feat, which is the old gap for one-shotting. If so then that's not allowed, it says so on it's page:

This gap is only valid in versus threads; it does not apply to in-universe feats of one-shotting other characters, as using it as such a multiplier for powerscaling purposes is considered Calc Stacking.

 

[TheGatememer]

That is NOT a recalc, that's a completely different explosion. I've had thought about for quite a while, my only complaint right now is that it assumes that every soldier in that army fires a rocket to create that massive explosion when there really isn't any indication of that beyond... a sound of what seems to be a singular rocket? (though with the feat occuring outside of our view, it's kinda difficult to discern any number of rockets being fired from such a distance)

Basically, I feel like this calc makes an assumption that allows it to have a "low end" which would also give it some consistency with the other calcs.

I mean if we wanna go the route of assuming it's from a singular rocket, it would be consistent with the 8-B Cow Mangler calc.

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

That is NOT a recalc, that's a completely different explosion. I've had thought about for quite a while, my only complaint right now is that it assumes that every soldier in that army fires a rocket to create that massive explosion when there really isn't any indication of that beyond... a sound of what seems to be a singular rocket? (though with the feat occuring outside of our view, it's kinda difficult to discern any number of rockets being fired from such a distance)

Basically, I feel like this calc makes an assumption that allows it to have a "low end" which would also give it some consistency with the other calcs.

Given how the Soldier moving in tandem is not the focus of the linked feat like... at all, I have a feeling that this might not get accepted here. Thankfully there is a game where rocket scaling works better due to having less projectiles and (thankfully) has a calc already: Team Fortress Classic!

The only problem is... the modern Team Fortress mercs don't fight the classic mercs until their Robot War/Australium Chase key, so it would only be applicable in that key and not in general.

Is this based off the one-shot gap? 5.4 Tons happens to be 7.5x stronger than the 0.72 Ton feat, which is the old gap for one-shotting. If so then that's not allowed, it says so on it's page:

1) I got confused since its explosions in meet the medic and the one that everyone knows is what I thought the calc was for (I will edit it and move it into new calcs
2) if the speed calc is considered iffy but we can use TFC calcs for it thats fine, if its evaluated I could add it in aswell
3) I wasnt aware of the oneshot thing for scaling and I assumed it could be used, still though given how easily characters like saxton hale, HHH, etc can manhandle the entire team w no difficulty it should be atleast or with higher noted after

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Edited out the thread for the calc and other issues however for the team fortress classic calc It doesnt seem to be evaluated @Diamond_Drone

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

BUMP

 

[Rex_Eckles]

The only problem is... the modern Team Fortress mercs don't fight the classic mercs until their Robot War/Australium Chase key, so it would only be applicable in that key and not in general.

Not to cause derailment, but technically the TF2 mercs only fought older versions of the TFC mercs, TFC Heavy points out that they aren't getting any younger, implying they might not be in their primes anymore. So that may cause conflict for scaling them to the young TFC mercenaries.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

Not to cause derailment, but technically the TF2 mercs only fought older versions of the TFC mercs, TFC Heavy points out that they aren't getting any younger, implying they might not be in their primes anymore. So that may cause conflict for scaling them to the young TFC mercenaries.

I don't think it's too far off to think that they still are capable considering they can still put down most of the big mercenary teams in the comics, regardless it should be like this:

Other teams < Team Ajax =< TFC Team (old) < TFC Team (young) =< TF2 Team

I think the old tfc team and team Ajax were really close considering they how tfc heavy regarded them in this way

And the tf2 team should be superior (or at least slightly) due of their equipment advantage (bonk, cow mangler, the ubercharge, the banners etc...)

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Perhaps, although the main contention is if the old TFC mercenaries have the same movement speed as their prime selves, which isn't necessarily required for them to do all of that stuff.

Ultimately, it's not a big deal.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

Perhaps, although the main contention is if the old TFC mercenaries have the same movement speed as their prime selves, which isn't necessarily required for them to do all of that stuff.

Ultimately, it's not a big deal.

Btw i think by the statement the tfc heavy said he meant in his hypotetical future and not now

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Hm, fair point. I suppose the statement is too vague to discredit anything.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

I'm not sure if this violates the multiplier rules, but technically Medic's shield can vaporize multiple robots at once, which could potentially bump up it's attack potency to High 8-C.

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

I'm not sure if this violates the multiplier rules, but technically Medic's shield can vaporize multiple robots at once, which could potentially bump up it's attack potency to High 8-C.

I think it could be a calc but Im not sure

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Even just using the standard Heavy robot value and multiply it by three (like in the video) gets around 2.36 tons of TNT, so there's that.

It probably wouldn't be scaled to anything else though.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

WHERE IS MY BUMP

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

been busy but bump

 

[Rex_Eckles]

What needs to be done?

 

[LandonTheGuy]

WHERE IS MY BUMP

invincible reference

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

we could try to contact CGM's for their opinion on the thread

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Did you try the CRT promotion thread?

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Did you try the CRT promotion thread?

Havent done that no

 

[Rex_Eckles]

It's worth a shot.

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

It's worth a shot.

alright looking at priority should this revision be 3 or 2 for the thread?

I might do 3 because we did have some form of Tier 8 scaling through weapons

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Alright I have submitted this thread to the content revision promotion thread

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Let us hope.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I pretty much agree with DiamondDrone, lots of these feats rely on too much vagueness.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Which ones are particularly problematic?

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

I pretty much agree with DiamondDrone, lots of these feats rely on too much vagueness.

the only calcs/feats that considerably have that problem is relating to is the big rocket explosion calc and the soldier speed calc DiamondDrone hasnt stated that the rest of the calcs have the issue of being too vague

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

There still is other calcs in this thread that have been approved and dont seem to share this issue

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Like Pyro's, Saxton Hale's, Robot vaporizations, and mama bear LS.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

I pretty much agree with DiamondDrone, lots of these feats rely on too much vagueness.

I've only really said that the big rocket explosion was vague, the other calcs do have things that should make them fine to use. Like the Pyro feat recalc calculates the energy to destroy the roof, which further away from the epicenter of the explosion than Pyro is (regardless of whether or not if they jumped down), and that new Volcano feat actually has Saxton being getting hit by the erupting volcano while inside it.

Manmelter Atomization (8-C) (same as the vaporizing robots calc)

Also just remembered that this is actually not new, it has been on the profiles (and verse page) since 2021.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

If the Meet the Medic fear is deemed too vague, it can just be edited out of the OP and saved for another day. That and the Soldier rocket running calc.

Otherwise, is there anything wrong with the remaining proposed feats?

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

If the Meet the Medic fear is deemed too vague, it can just be edited out of the OP and saved for another day. That and the Soldier rocket running calc.

Otherwise, is there anything wrong with the remaining proposed feats?

The manmelter feat is already done actually yeah so minor mistake since the list in the discussion thread mustve had it in

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Alright so Thread is edited to show the feats that havent been considered vague or have already been in the verse page

we currently have two recalcs and two new feats with one being AP and one being LS


@Diamond_Drone

Is there any other calcs that would seem weird or needs questioning?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Alright so Thread is edited to show the feats that havent been considered vague or have already been in the verse page

we currently have two recalcs and two new feats with one being AP and one being LS


@Diamond_Drone

Is there any other calcs that would seem weird or needs questioning?

Do you want to add a part about Medic's shield vaporizing multiple robots or save that for a rainy day?