Deceased by Daybreak - A DBD Downgrade Series (Part 1: Slow Start)

[Soupywolf5]

Hello hello.

Welp, the great FC/OC purge just snapped the neck of my revision series for that wiki (Seriously I had revisions almost ready for 3 separate verses and all of them got moved to Alt Battles) so instead I'll get started on some revisions for the game two of those slaughtered revisions were for fan-games of. Expired by Dayspring No I did not spend several minutes looking up different ways of saying daylight, **** you for asking

Currently all DBD killers (Except for these three lmao) are given Superhuman speed for the following reasoning:

Speed: Superhuman (Killers possess the speed to outpace trained athletes in a fearful run by simply walking after them)

Or some minor variation. Likewise, all survivors are given speed ratings of either Athletic Human, or "Athletic Human to Peak Human" either via "scales to other survivors," which creates a massive circular scaling chain with no start, or scaling to Meg "doesn't have a profile" Thomas, whose backstory depicts her as an athlete

That bit about Meg being athletic is the only reason given for any speed value for any survivor that isn't just "scales to other survivors." As such Peak Human speed has no reason to exist, it comes from nowhere, athletic human speed survivors would be fine, given Meg's backstory and all survivors running at the same speed as her in-game, if it weren't for one thing:

The game literally gives every killer, including things like projectiles, different forms and speed while using abilities that modify it, an exact speed value, in meters per second and then gives that base movement speed a percentage value compared to survivors. (Where the running speed of a survivor is 100%)

And what speed values are given? Well:

• Killers like Springtrap and Meyers at tier 1 have a movement speed of 4.4 meters/second, which is 110% of a survivor's running speed
• While other killers like Trapper and Pig have a movement speed of 4.6 meters/second, or 115%

I listed the wiki for all of those, but all of these values can be found in character bios given in-game. With those percentages, the base running speed of a survivor is 4 meters/second, well below the Athletic Human or Peak Human speed they're all listed as having

Now, this entire argument has been brought up before, (At least I'm pretty sure it has, I can't find the thread for the life of me, but I swear I'm not making this up) and then it was argued that the values given in-game were simply unreasonably slow and should be dismissed (Again, I think. Doctor, I swear these arguments are in the room with us right now) however, not only is this just a blatant argument from incredulity, kinda just saying "well, there's no way they can be that slow," but the in-game values aren't even slow in the first place. The main problem here is that our "average human" speed tier is a little misleading. We have Average Human speed rated as 5-7.7 meters/second, which is 18-27.2 kilometers/hour, or 11.2-17.2 miles per hour. According to we the wiki, this is how fast an average human "moves."

But of course, humans don't just have one static movement speed, so where does that 5-7.7 meters/second come from? Well, it's obviously not walking speed, that's only about 1.4 to, at most 2.5 meters/second, it can't be jogging speed either, average jogging speed is consistently defined as 4, 5 or 6 miles per hour, or 1.78-2.68 meters/second, which overlaps with high-end walking speed, running speed would seem like it'd be what our average speed tier is based on, but that's also a no-go, since average running speed generally hovers just barely above jogging speed at around/above 6 miles per hour, that leaves just one more option, that being sprinting, which as it turns out fits the bill perfectly, while the exact numbers aren't consistent, listed average sprinting speeds are all generally within that 5-7.7 meter/second range. (Some do get a little higher or lower, but not usually by very much) So now that we know that "Average Human" speed is specifically based on sprinting, and isn't how fast a human moves all the time, are the survivors sprinting?

Well, no. All of the killer profiles say they're chasing down survivors in a "fearful run," but the actual survivor running animations only really look like they're jogging, and they're definitely not sprinting, which makes sense, your average non-powerscaling joe can only keep a full-speed sprint up for around 8 or 9 seconds, and an athlete can only do so for a bit longer, meanwhile the survivors need to be able to keep up their 4 meter/second run for minutes at a time, even if they are afraid, in all honesty that's actually pretty fast. You might be tempted to just dismiss the animations as not being indicative of their actual speed and say they should be sprinting since they're running for their lives, but at that point not only are you kind of just ignoring the entire game, but Dead by Daylight has multiple instances of the survivors actually sprinting for real, which are both short, non-sustainable bursts of speed like real sprinting, and are within the "average human" range we'd expect, such as the burst of speed a survivor gets upon being hit, where they briefly reach 6.6 meters/second, or the perk literally called "sprint burst," a running perk which, surprise surprise, comes from Meg "carries survivor speed" Thomas, which lets survivors briefly sprint at 150% speed, which based on the 4 meter/second value for their 100% usual running speed, is 6 meters/second

Ok, that ended up being a lot, and was a whole lot of fluff just to say "hey the game literally says you're wrong" to summarize the changes I'm proposing:

• Change all survivors' speed to Below Average Human, due to their in-game running speed being explicitly listed as 4 meters/second, while reaching Average Human with perks like sprint burst (I suppose they could just be listed as average human since they should be just as capable of sprinting as any other human character who's given average human speed, but 99% of the time the survivors all move at that below average human 4 meter/second speed so idk)
• All killers' movement speed should also be downgraded to Below Average Human, doubly so since their listed 4.4/4.6 meter/second speed is the only speed they ever move at in-game, with exception for killers with attacks/techniques/whatever that are faster and have higher listed speeds, which are:
  • Wraith while cloaked and in a short burst after uncloaking is 6 and 6.9 meters/second respectively, with both of these values being Average Human
  • Hillbilly with his chainsaw revved runs at 10.12 meters/second, which is Peak Human
  • Nurse with her blinks can go as fast as 13.33 meters/second, which is Superhuman
  • Huntress' hatchets have a minimum and maximum speed of 25 and 40 meters/second respectively, which is Superhuman to Subsonic (Waiter! There's an upgrade in my downgrade thread!)
  • Bubba has a maximum speed while using his chainsaw of 5.35 meters/second, which is Average Human
  • Nerf Pig during her ambush dash has a movement speed of 6.9 meters/second, which is Average Human
  • Clown can amp his movement speed through the use of his antidotes to 5.06 meters/second, which is just barely Average Human
  • Spirit can phase walk at 7.04 meters/second, which is Average Human
  • Legion with Feral Frenzy starts at 5.2 meters/second and can increase their speed up to 6.16 meters/second, both of these values, as well as all of FF's intermediate values, are Average Human
  • Plague's vomit (God that's disgusting, I almost forgot she even exists since nobody plays as her) flies at 10.55 meters/second, which is Peak Human
  • Demodog can hit 18.4 meters/second with their shred attack and moves through the Upside Down at 32 meters/second, both of which are Superhuman
  • Oni with his demon dash can run at 7.82 meters/second, meaning he gets to be alone in Athletic Human
  • Blight during his rush moves at 9.2 meters/second, meaning Oni actually gets company in Athletic Human
  • The ankle nibbler Victor moves at 6 meters/second, which is Average Human
  • Trickster can throw his knives at 55 meters/second, which is Subsonic
  • Cenobite's chains start at 10 meters/second and over time ramp up to 40 meters/second, starting at Athletic Human and going up to Subsonic
  • Artist's crows start at 20 meters/second and ramp up to 35 meters/second, starting at Superhuman and going up to Subsonic
  • Onryō can move at 6.9 meters/second for a few seconds after projecting to a TV, which is Average Human
  • Dredge can teleport at 19 meters/second during the day and 38 meters/second during nightfall, which are Superhuman and Subsonic
  • Mastermind moves at 14 meters/second during a virulent bound, which is Superhuman
  • Knight creates patrol paths at 13.8 meters/second, which is Superhuman
  • Singularity shoots biopods at 50 meters/second, which is Subsonic
  • Xenomorph I started this list without using "the" and now I'm just being stubborn and refusing to use it at all moves through their tunnels at 18 meters/second, which is Superhuman
  • Chucky moves at 8 meters/second during his slice and dice attack, which is Athletic Human
  • Lich while flying moves at 8 meters/second, which is Athletic Human, his dispelling sphere has an initial speed of 9.75 meters/second, which is Athletic Human, though over a few seconds it slows to 6.5 meters/second, or only Average Human, and entities spawned by Flight of the Damned have a max flying speed of 9 meters/second, which is also Athletic Human
  • Dracula's pounce attack in wolf form is 13.34 meters/second, which is Superhuman, and as a bat he can fly at 6.5 meters/second, which is Average Human, and teleport at 12 meters/second, which is Superhuman
  • Houndmaster can move at 6 meters/second while traveling along or close to her search path, which is Average Human, and her dog can move at up to 35 meters/second when dashing, which is Subsonic
  • Kaneki can leap at 10-14 meters/second, which is Athletic Human to Superhuman, and can slide at 23 meters/second after a leap, which is also Superhuman
  • And finally, Springtrap throws his axe at 30 meters/second, which is Superhuman

Any killer not listed either doesn't have anything that makes them faster or is already listed properly (Like Deathslinger already having Subsonic attack speed)


Alright, that's the end, thank you all for coming, it's currently like 7AM and I didn't sleep at all last night, goddamn I spent more time on that list than the entire yappuccino above it. I need to go and do something else

Votes​

Agree: 2: SamanPatou, Qawsedf234 (Agrees with changing Survivor speed to Average Human)

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Homie890]

agree.
but...
Kaneki?
Springtrap?
DRaCULa?!
CHUCKY?!
XENOMORPH?!
Since when they were added to the game?

 

[Soupywolf5]

Bump

agree.
but...
Kaneki?
Springtrap?
DRaCULa?!
CHUCKY?!
XENOMORPH?!
Since when they were added to the game?

I think the funniest addition was the entire half-chapter dedicated to adding Nicolas Cage, who’s literally just a real person (They didn’t add, like a character he played or some kind of altered fictional version, they just straight up added the actor Nicolas Cage as a survivor)

 

[SamanPatou]

Agree wholeheartedly, and this also arises the matter that maybe our speed page could use a note or such to address such issues.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Agree wholeheartedly, and this also arises the matter that maybe our speed page could use a note or such to address such issues.

Yeah, I didn't really say such in the OP, but I do think it's at least interesting that "Average Human" speed is based on the absolute top speed that an average person can only actually achieve for seconds at a time

 

[Homie890]

Bump

I think the funniest addition was the entire half-chapter dedicated to adding Nicolas Cage, who’s literally just a real person (They didn’t add, like a character he played or some kind of altered fictional version, they just straight up added the actor Nicolas Cage as a survivor)

NICHOLaS "*******" CaGE?!
THE aCTOR FROM 007?!

 

[Qawsedf234]

The speed section is usually their peak consistent speed. So the survivors being Average human, who don't usually run that fast, is fine in my view since that's more a stamina issue than a speed issue. If you gave one person infinite stamina, for example, they could keep up that 6 m/s speed. So it's not an unreachable value, just one they don't normally move at.

For the Killers, I think all the suggested speed changes are good.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Bump

The speed section is usually their peak consistent speed. So the survivors being Average human, who don't usually run that fast, is fine in my view since that's more a stamina issue than a speed issue. If you gave one person infinite stamina, for example, they could keep up that 6 m/s speed. So it's not an unreachable value, just one they don't normally move at.

For the Killers, I think all the suggested speed changes are good.

just to be sure, you agree with all the proposed killer changes, but think survivors should just be rated as Average Human, right?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I did actually get Killers downgraded to Athletic speed in this thread, I just never actually got to editing the profiles... I did make the Lich and Dark Lord pages though, whom have Athletic speed

I agree with all the projectile/dash speeds. That's one of the many issues of the older pages.

However, I think relying on the in-game speed listings in a bit iffy. I still think Survivors and Killers alike should be Athletic Human, given the lore rather than the gameplay.

Many Survivors are athletic in nature, not just Meg. All of the athletic ones that come to mind are; Meg Thomas, Nea Karlson, Steve Harrington, David Tapp, Jill Valentine, Leon S. Kennedy, Chris Redfield, Claire Redfield, Sheva Alomar, Carlos Oliveira, Ada Wong, Rebecca Chambers, Cybil Bennet, Tubarao, Trevor Belmont, Alucard, and Geralt of Rivia.

All of these characters are either trained military agents, police, noted athletes, or regularly fight speedy creatures like bats or wolves. Them all moving at a mere Below Average Human speed seems like a very clear cut example of game mechanics, given how in lore, they should all be moving well above that. The reason that the in-game speed statistics were disregarded is that they simply don't align with what is supposed to be happening on-screen. In the written lore, we get to see some direct examples of higher speeds;

• "Trevor rises in a flash, thrusting the menace to the ground. Even beneath the red moon, he can scarcely discern any features from the bandit. The bandit cowers on the ground at first, then lunges forward, blade glistening in the light of the moon. Trevor raises his dagger and rushes to meet his opponent. The bandit matches his every move, blades flashing in the night. This man is no ordinary bandit. He's agile. Disciplined." - Dominus
• "Slash tires? Sounds a bit extreme!" Meg regrets showing Coach Jenny how fast she could run during Phys Ed class. She saw something she liked, asked Meg to run, and now she wants her to race at the State Championships. From a virtual nobody to glorified jock almost overnight." - Conviction
• "Before the officers realise what's what, Meg's a bolt of lightning. Her heart's pounding in her throat. Her legs are a blur. The police give chase but eat her dust." - Conviction

I understand that the site's speed values themselves are a bit high, but I can't think of a singular other example where an average human was rated as Below Average Human due to irl speeds. From what I can tell, it is assumed that an average human being gets Average Human stats by default.

Maybe if we adjust the speed values of the whole site, but that doesn't seem easy...

And, not to whataboutism, but another verse with in-game speeds is Marvel Rivals, who's speeds also sit around Average Human and go up to Subsonic or so for projectiles. As the in-game speeds don't align with anything seen in the lore itself, they have been ignored. I think the same should apply here.

I think Survivors and Killers should retain their Athletic speeds, but with the additional speeds of their dashes and projectiles.

I guess I could see certain Survivors getting Athletic while others get Average, but I'd argue that they should be comparable to each other within the Realm. And obviously, Killers should upscale, being Athletic themselves.

I wouldn't mind treated the in-game speed values as gospel, but there seems to be a lot going against them being 100% accurate to what's actually going on. We know from trailers and lore videos that Survivors can fight back against Killers, but of course we never see this depicted in-game.

TL;DR - I think Below Average Human speed is purely a game mechanic and also the site's speed values might need tweaked a bit and I think Athletic speed is much more accurate to the source material

Unless we want to maybe go with "Below Average Human travel speed, higher with Perks, Athletic Human combat and reaction speeds"?

 

[Soupywolf5]

I did actually get Killers downgraded to Athletic speed in this thread, I just never actually got to editing the profiles... I did make the Lich and Dark Lord pages though, whom have Athletic speed

I agree with all the projectile/dash speeds. That's one of the many issues of the older pages.

However, I think relying on the in-game speed listings in a bit iffy. I still think Survivors and Killers alike should be Athletic Human, given the lore rather than the gameplay.

Many Survivors are athletic in nature, not just Meg. All of the athletic ones that come to mind are; Meg Thomas, Nea Karlson, Steve Harrington, David Tapp, Jill Valentine, Leon S. Kennedy, Chris Redfield, Claire Redfield, Sheva Alomar, Carlos Oliveira, Ada Wong, Rebecca Chambers, Cybil Bennet, Tubarao, Trevor Belmont, Alucard, and Geralt of Rivia.

All of these characters are either trained military agents, police, noted athletes, or regularly fight speedy creatures like bats or wolves. Them all moving at a mere Below Average Human speed seems like a very clear cut example of game mechanics, given how in lore, they should all be moving well above that. The reason that the in-game speed statistics were disregarded is that they simply don't align with what is supposed to be happening on-screen. In the written lore, we get to see some direct examples of higher speeds;

• "Trevor rises in a flash, thrusting the menace to the ground. Even beneath the red moon, he can scarcely discern any features from the bandit. The bandit cowers on the ground at first, then lunges forward, blade glistening in the light of the moon. Trevor raises his dagger and rushes to meet his opponent. The bandit matches his every move, blades flashing in the night. This man is no ordinary bandit. He's agile. Disciplined." - Dominus
• "Slash tires? Sounds a bit extreme!" Meg regrets showing Coach Jenny how fast she could run during Phys Ed class. She saw something she liked, asked Meg to run, and now she wants her to race at the State Championships. From a virtual nobody to glorified jock almost overnight." - Conviction
• "Before the officers realise what's what, Meg's a bolt of lightning. Her heart's pounding in her throat. Her legs are a blur. The police give chase but eat her dust." - Conviction

I understand that the site's speed values themselves are a bit high, but I can't think of a singular other example where an average human was rated as Below Average Human due to irl speeds. From what I can tell, it is assumed that an average human being gets Average Human stats by default.

Maybe if we adjust the speed values of the whole site, but that doesn't seem easy...

And, not to whataboutism, but another verse with in-game speeds is Marvel Rivals, who's speeds also sit around Average Human and go up to Subsonic or so for projectiles. As the in-game speeds don't align with anything seen in the lore itself, they have been ignored. I think the same should apply here.

I think Survivors and Killers should retain their Athletic speeds, but with the additional speeds of their dashes and projectiles.

I guess I could see certain Survivors getting Athletic while others get Average, but I'd argue that they should be comparable to each other within the Realm. And obviously, Killers should upscale, being Athletic themselves.

I wouldn't mind treated the in-game speed values as gospel, but there seems to be a lot going against them being 100% accurate to what's actually going on. We know from trailers and lore videos that Survivors can fight back against Killers, but of course we never see this depicted in-game.

TL;DR - I think Below Average Human speed is purely a game mechanic and also the site's speed values might need tweaked a bit and I think Athletic speed is much more accurate to the source material

Unless we want to maybe go with "Below Average Human travel speed, higher with Perks, Athletic Human combat and reaction speeds"?

So right away I feel there's a bit of a misconception here, just because we/the wiki rate it as "Below Average Human," doesn't mean 4 meters/second is slow, like I said in the OP, average running speed is only ~2.6 meters/second, the survivors are all running ~1.5x faster than an average person, (That probably doesn't sound like a lot because VS brain rot gets us used to massive stat gaps, but a 1.5x speed difference irl is pretty big) it's only sprinting that actually gets into the 5-7.7 threshold, someone being "fast" and running at 4 meters/second aren't mutually exclusive, that is fast for an average person, so someone being athletic or having a job that would require such wouldn't necessarily require them to possess athletic human speed as we define it (It's entirely possible Behaviour just has a different idea of what a person being fast means)

As for the examples provided, Trevor's is only combat speed, (Which wouldn't scale to anybody else) Meg's first example doesn't offer much beyond saying she's fast, which we already established, her in-game speed is 1.5x faster than average, the third example seems like it'd be something, but it doesn't really contradict anything I proposed, Meg is able to outrun a few cops, in what sounds like a burst from a standstill, (Almost like a sprint burst of some kind) which if anything only corroborates the values we get in-game, since sprint burst, the perk that lets a survivor run at 6 meters/second, the fastest attainable speed outside of on-hit burst, is originally Meg's perk, she's fast, so she has the sprinting perk

Other average humans don't get consistently outrun by people with explicitly stated 4.4/4.6 meter/second speed, I'd probably be ok with listing them as Average Human, given that, like I said before, they should be just as capable of sprinting as any other character listed as Average Human, but they do run at that 4 meters/second speed for 99% of the game

I'm not sure what Rivals does, nor do I care, if they have actual feats higher than their listed speeds, great, DBD doesn't, I'd be fine ignoring the in-game values if they did, but all we've got are a few characters having feats of being vaguely "fast"

If you want us to dismiss the in-game speeds then why should we go back on that and use the listed projectile/additional movement speeds? That'd be cherry picking to use one but not the other, plus several of them would be contradictory towards the idea of killers having Athletic Human speed (I.E. "Wraith's speed buff he gets while cloaked and after decloaking are both Average Human, yet are both faster than his base speed, which is Athletic Human?" Like some of these just can't be "added on" if we ignore the base value to list them as Athletic Human, and if you want to say "well just rate them as "higher with x"" then you're not even using the in-game values period. This whole idea would require being so selective with which listed speeds we do and don't use all for upholding a speed based entirely off a metric we made up)

There's at best one example that might contradict the in-game speeds, (And realistically only supports them) which I don't think is nearly enough to go with our own arbitrarily defined speed tiers over the in-game numbers. I'm not really sure what the part about survivors not fighting back in-game despite doing so in trailers is supposed to mean, plenty of things happen in the trailers that don't in-game Also there technically are a few occasions of survivors fighting back in-game like in Meyers' mori

I see no reason why they'd have Athletic human reaction speed in that case, and especially not combat speed (I did suggest "BAH, AH with perks," given that, again, they only move at that 4 meters/second speed almost the entire time, but I'm not sure where any higher reaction speed would come from)

 

[Comiphorous]

Trevor's is only combat speed, (Which wouldn't scale to anybody else)

Trevor isn't any faster than the other survivors nor the killers. So either the in game movement speed listed are unreliable for lore purposes, or the other characters can scale to Trevor.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Trevor isn't any faster than the other survivors nor the killers. So either the in game movement speed listed are unreliable for lore purposes, or the other characters can scale to Trevor.

Sure, his movement speed scales to everyone else, but the quote provided for him would only be combat speed, (Or reaction speed, the distinction's fuzzy, either way it's a bunch of quick bursts of movement that wouldn't be travel speed) which nobody else has any reason to scale to

 

[Comiphorous]

Sure, his movement speed scales to everyone else, but the quote provided for him would only be combat speed, (Or reaction speed, the distinction's fuzzy, either way it's a bunch of quick bursts of movement that wouldn't be travel speed) which nobody else has any reason to scale to

Yeah i mean, the only reason they'd scale is if there was some like dark lord or vampire as a killer who was stated to have fought Trevor or something..

but i mean that'd be crazy it's not like that'd happen.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Yeah i mean, the only reason they'd scale is if there was some like dark lord or vampire as a killer who was stated to have fought Trevor or something..

but i mean that'd be crazy it's not like that'd happen.

ok, and why would they scale to him? You don't exactly dodge attacks (I know he's got the hellfire attacks which you can kind of dodge, but you aim-dodge those, you can't dodge by reacting to the flames themselves) in this game

 

[ShockingPsychic]

He is shown reacting to Hellfire in comic art

 

[Soupywolf5]

He is shown reacting to Hellfire in comic art

Yeah, Trevor having higher reaction speed is fine since he has an actual feat, which doesn't involve the hellfire at all. (The hellfire is scaling off of him, not the other way around, the only thing for speed in Dracula's profile aside from real animal scaling is "Scales to Trevor") That's great if he can react to it, but the other survivors can't, and they have no reason to scale to Trevor

 

[Comiphorous]

Yeah, Trevor having higher reaction speed is fine since he has an actual feat, which doesn't involve the hellfire at all. (The hellfire is scaling off of him, not the other way around, the only thing for speed in Dracula's profile aside from real animal scaling is "Scales to Trevor") That's great if he can react to it, but the other survivors can't, and they have no reason to scale to Trevor

He's literally blocking it in the image mind you.

 

[Comiphorous]

Also doesn't the singularity have feats of blitzing humans or something?

As far as i recall he has feats of grabbing a woman within moments while he was trying to kill Gabriel, and had charged and pinned a guy against the wall within moments.

The Singularity just moves at these speeds, so even disregarding Dracula, the survivors can run comparably to him. the survivors and killers have some superhuman scaling.

 

[Soupywolf5]

He's literally blocking it in the image mind you.

Yes, I agree, I never argued with Trevor having higher reaction speed, but no other survivor can react to the hellfire, everyone else has to aim-dodge (Even Trevor himself has to aim-dodge it in-game but he can react to it in-lore so whatever) plus Trevor's the one with the feat, the fire is scaling to him, it doesn't even have a listed in-game speed value

 

[Soupywolf5]

Also doesn't the singularity have feats of blitzing humans or something?

As far as i recall he has feats of grabbing a woman within moments while he was trying to kill Gabriel, and had charged and pinned a guy against the wall within moments.

The Singularity just moves at these speeds, so even disregarding Dracula, the survivors can run comparably to him.

It has a nanosecond perception feat, you could probably get some whack MFTL+ perception calc combining that with the statement that he was processing "decillions of lines of code" but rereading his bio, not really? he kills some humans in their sleep, then kills a scientist, the manner of which is completely glossed over, (In the sense of if he blitzed her or not) there's a few parts towards the end that you might be able to interpret as "blitzing," with two instances of Hux pinning a human, with the former described as "within moments" and the latter described as "one quick movement," but idk if we'd actually interpret either as a blitz rather than HUX just overpowering them quickly, and even if we did both would be feats of reaction speed anyway (So nothing for the survivors to scale to)

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Just a heads up, doing some speed calcs. So far I have two BAH (though one is higher than 4.4 m/s... barely) and one Superhuman feat that I need my math checked on.

 

[Comiphorous]

but rereading his bio, not really? he kills some humans in their sleep, then kills a scientist, the manner of which is completely glossed over, (In the sense of if he blitzed her or not) there's a few parts towards the end that you might be able to interpret as "blitzing," with two instances of Hux pinning a human, with the former described as "within moments" and the latter described as "one quick movement," but idk if we'd actually interpret either as a blitz rather than HUX just overpowering them quickly, and even if we did both would be feats of reaction speed anyway (So nothing for the survivors to scale to)

You can't interpret the moment with the medical-officer as him overpowering them quickly, as he explicitly states he was trying to kill gabriel before he changed focus on the officer, and then within moments had her in his grasp. He moved toward them at that speed. That's 100% a speed feat.

Hell you can't even interpret the moment with the guy hiding from him in the shadows as that either, as he again explicitly says they were trying to hide from him, he noticed it with his hearing, and then pinned them against a generator.

Both times he was doing something else, noticed the other human, and ran toward them to attack and kill them. He was never describing himself already focusing on the other human. They're both speed feats of him attacking at speeds Hux was describing.

 

[Soupywolf5]

You can't interpret the moment with the medical-officer as him overpowering them quickly, as he explicitly states he was trying to kill gabriel before he changed focus on the officer, and then within moments had her in his grasp. He moved toward them at that speed. That's 100% a speed feat.

Hell you can't even interpret the moment with the guy hiding from him in the shadows as that either, as he again explicitly says they were trying to hide from him, he noticed it with his hearing, and then pinned them against a generator.

Both times he was doing something else, noticed the other human, and ran toward them to attack and kill them.

Brother I never said it wasn't a speed feat, I said it probably wasn't movement speed. We don't know how close to the officer he was or if he needed to run to grab him (Which really matters if we're trying to decide if this would be reaction or movement speed) and the latter pretty openly says "one quick movement," which sounds like something that we'd lump into reaction speed (Plus, again, no idea how close he was to the guy)

 

[Comiphorous]

We don't know how close to the officer he was

Hux doesn't know the officer is in the room until after he gets ready to kill Gabriel, so they couldn't have been close to Hux.

Unless we wanna argue he's blind as a bat, since if they were close to eachother Hux would've attacked the officer first for being an immediate threat to him compared to gabriel

 

[Soupywolf5]

Hux literally doesn't know the officer is in the room until after he gets ready to kill Gabriel, so they couldn't have been close to Hux.

He literally notices him almost immediately, it takes him like a second, (The sequence of events is: Gabriel tries to kill Hux, Hux moves forwards to kill Gabriel, Hux notices the officer) while he's busy beefing with another android/robot/mech/whatever, that doesn't tell us much about their proximity to each other (And definitely not to say with enough confidence to scale every other character in the game's movement speed to over explicitly listed in-game speed values)

 

[Comiphorous]

Even if you don't agree with The Singularity, the killers also have a few more concrete feats.

Peak Human, Hillbilly can chase down and kill free-range farm animals, including 8 cows.

Athletic human, maybe peak human, Huntress leaps forward and decapitates two russian soldiers with her hatchet without them being able to shoot at her, while they were aimed at her.

Theres probably a lot more, The Archives sometimes bless us with some nice speed feats.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Even if you don't agree with The Singularity, the killers also have a few more concrete feats.

Peak Human, Hillbilly can chase down and kill free-range farm animals, including 8 cows.

Athletic human, maybe peak human, Huntress leaps forward and decapitates two russian soldiers with her hatchet without them being able to shoot at her, while they were aimed at her.

Theres probably a lot more, The Archives sometimes bless us with some nice speed feats.

Hillbilly can charge at ~10.12 meters/second, which is fast enough to catch a cow, (Ignoring that cows aren't long distance runners and only do so in short bursts. Plus while our page on cows list their peak speed as 11.11 meters/second, they usually only run at ~7.6, meaning Hillbilly could have just chased the cows long enough for them to be unable to maintain their barely faster peak speed, we don't know) doesn't scale to his general movement speed, and is much faster than any of the survivors

This one sounds like it'd just be reaction speed and thus wouldn't scale to anyone else, but it probably wouldn't be an especially notable speed feat anyway, given this description of events is wrong, she distracts the soldiers with the head of one of their comrades and then catches them off-guard, they're not pointing their guns at her, they didn't even know she was there before she attacked

 

[Comiphorous]

Hillbilly can charge at ~10.12 meters/second, which is fast enough to catch a cow

It's described as him just chasing them. I feel it's a stretch to assume he was doing his in game charge stuff when that doesn't really seem like that's what's being implied, bur ig he could've been.

This one sounds like it'd just be reaction speed and thus wouldn't scale to anyone else, but it probably wouldn't be an especially notable speed feat anyway, given this description of events is wrong, she distracts the soldiers with the head of one of their comrades and then catches them off-guard, they're not pointing their guns at her, they didn't even know she was there before she attacked

Thats not even what happened? Let's not get it twisted lmao. She literally notes she needed that moment of shock to kill them, because she used the gurgling pain sounds of another soldier to lure them toward her. They were literally facing her because they were walking toward her.

Edit: The oh-reliable video based off the memory also seems to imply she attacked them after they noticed her, considering their guns are pointed at her and charging at her.

I don't think they're Superhuman, I don't think they have enough to concretely place them there. i believe a better scaling would be something like this;

Peak Human (Should be comparable to other killers such as The Huntress or The Singularity which both have been described to being able to kill people in moments or kill people before they can properly react. Can outpace athletes and attack trained soldiers without them being able to fight back.), [Insert specific reaction speed/perception/attack speed scaling for individual characters like Dracula, Singularity, and Springtrap]

 

[Soupywolf5]

It's described as him just chasing them. I feel it's a stretch to assume he was doing his in game charge stuff.

Thats not even what happened? Let's not get it twisted lmao. She literally notes she needed that moment of shock to kill them, because she used the gurgling pain sounds of another soldier to lure them toward her. They were literally facing her because they were walking toward her.

I don't think they're Superhuman, I don't think they have enough to concretely place them there. i believe a better scaling would be something like this;

Peak Human (Should be comparable to other killers such as The Huntress or The Singularity which both have been described to being able to kill people in moments or kill people before they can properly react. Can outpace athletes and attack trained soldiers without them being able to fight back.)

Charging is still chasing? His "in-game charge stuff" is literally just charging, there's no reason to say he couldn't have been using it or that this should scale to his base movement speed over how fast the game blatantly tells us he is when he's already got constant access to movement that would be fast enough to accomplish this feat

It's exactly what happened, the soldiers walk towards the other soldier's gargles, she rolls a head out to distract them, and then she uses the moment of shock to kill two of them, them having their bayonets "up and ready" doesn't mean that they saw and were pointing them at her, they just had their weapons up in general because they knew a threat was present

If she needed the moment of shock to kill them then I don't see why it should be peak human. You can attack someone before they can properly react by taking them off-guard even with regular human speed, (Killers also have no actual reason to scale to each other, they never interact with each other, and the survivors they kill don't scale to them either) and even if the feat was Peak Human, it still would only be reaction speed that wouldn't scale to anyone else

 

[Comiphorous]

them having their bayonets "up and ready" doesn't mean that they saw and were pointing them at her,

The Video based off the memory depicts them having noticed her, so...

It's more notable for the first guy, since he's already aiming at her, and for whatever reason it's inconsistent with it showing the other two unarmed, even though the text says they were armed. Maybe the video not 100% accurate to what happened? not sure. Video shows her killing a guy behind her fast enough to where he couldn't pull out his grenade, and blew himself up, buuuuut who knows if that's what actually happened.

 

[Soupywolf5]

The Video based off the memory depicts them having noticed her, so...

This isn't a video about the specific memory, it's just depicting the entire tome as a whole, it can't be the specific memory since the events don't line up with the sequence of events in the written memory at all (I.e. the number of soldiers is different, the written memory has 4 soldiers, there are 5 here, she never uses a head to distract them, she doesn't use one's gurgles to lure them in, pretty much everything is different)

Regardless, my point was less focused on them not seeing her, and more that, if she needed to distract them to get in and kill them, then I don't see why it should be Peak Human speed

Also, the first two soldiers are just running straight at her despite holding guns, not raised or even attempting to aim them at her, are they stupid? this doesn't really depict her as "killing them before they can shoot despite having their guns aimed at her"

 

[Comiphorous]

are they stupid?

lead poisoning mayhaps?

Also im a bit confused about the proposal, if the demogorgon can move at superhuman speeds already, wouldn't everyone scale to the demogorgon anyways? It's power is literally just moving through the upside down, so it's not supernaturally amping it's speed or doing anything that'd make it faster in anyway.

The same issue is with Xenomorph. The xenomorph is literally just running through a tunnel to reach the other side. that should just scale to it's base speed, which in turn would just scale to the other killers anyways (one way or another, anyways)

Wouldn't everyone stay superhuman due to those two?

 

[Soupywolf5]

lead poisoning mayhaps?

Also im a bit confused about the proposal, if the demogorgon can move at superhuman speeds already, wouldn't everyone scale to the demogorgon anyways? It's power is literally just moving through the upside down, so it's not supernaturally amping it's speed or doing anything that'd make it faster in anyway.

The same issue is with Xenomorph. The xenomorph is literally just running through a tunnel to reach the other side. that should just scale to it's base speed, which in turn would just scale to the other killers anyways.

Wouldn't everyone stay superhuman due to those two?

No. The Demodog and Xenomorph's Superhuman running speed is only ever used in their respective special areas, the survivors never directly interact with that speed, and only ever get slightly outpaced by their 4.6 meter/second usual running speed, realistically they should be able to move at those speeds at any time, just like how survivors can realistically sprint at any time but they never do and so the survivors have no reason to scale to it (And other killers especially don't)

That also goes back to what I said before, we can't just cherry pick which in-game speed values we want to use, every other killer and every survivor's base movement speed is far slower than those movement options according to the same source their speed comes from, we're told and can directly observe that they're far faster than either the survivors or the Xeno/Demo's usual running speed, so we have no reason to say that only the lower values are wrong but the higher ones are good and kosher

 

[Comiphorous]

No. The Demodog and Xenomorph's Superhuman running speed is only ever used in their respective special areas, the survivors never directly interact with that speed, and only ever get slightly outpaced by their 4.6 meter/second usual running speed, realistically they should be able to move at those speeds at any time, just like how survivors can realistically sprint at any time but they never do and so the survivors have no reason to scale to it (And other killers especially don't)

I'm not sure exactly what you're proposing then. If they realistically can move at those superhuman speeds at all times then one way or another the other killers would scale to that. Why would we simply ignore the fact they can realistically do that and downgrade them anyways, and then the rest of the killers who move at comparable speeds to the two? It feels like it's nitpicking those two out of the equation.

 

[Soupywolf5]

I'm not sure exactly what you're proposing then. If they realistically can move at those superhuman speeds at all times then one way or another the other killers would scale to that. Why would we simply ignore the fact they can realistically do that and downgrade them anyways, and then the rest of the killers who move at comparable speeds to the two? It feels like it's nitpicking those two out of the equation.

What? They can, (Maybe, if they could you'd think they'd do so when outside and actually chasing survivors) but they don't, outside of those situations they move at the same 4.6 meters/second as (Almost) every other killer

Why would we simply ignore that their tunnel/upside down speed is blatantly faster than the speed they move at the other 99% of the time? No other killer interacts with Demo or Xeno, nor do they show reason to compare to those specific movement options, and the survivors don't interact with those movements either

Like trying to scale everyone to Superhuman speed from this is like saying because I can sprint at 5 meters/second, but usually walk at some slower speed, then my walking speed is actually as fast as my sprinting because I can do so at any time, completely ignoring that the latter is blatantly faster and thus someone walking at the same speed is actually walking as fast as I sprint, there's no argument here, they're visibly faster and trying to ignore that just leads to circular scaling and is also just ignoring what the game tells us purely for the sake of higher speed scaling

 

[Comiphorous]

What? They can, (Maybe, if they could you'd think they'd do so when outside and actually chasing survivors) but they don't, outside of those situations they move at the same 4.6 meters/second as (Almost) every other killer

Your argument against them scaling to it as a base speed is that the two animalistic creatures, one of which is described as "born of violence, designed to kill." and the other described as "a nightmare of unrestrained, feral rage as it hunts down its prey" both decided to not move at their normal speeds for the ***** 'n giggles, going against key parts of their character? seriously?

Why would we simply ignore that their tunnel/upside down speed is blatantly faster than the speed they move at the other 99% of the time? No other killer interacts with Demo or Xeno, nor do they show reason to compare to those specific movement options, and the survivors don't interact with those movements either

I don't want the survivors to scale to the killers, that'd be ridiculous. I believe only the killers should scale among themselves for either having close to, or the same speed as the rest of them, including the demogorgon.

Like trying to scale everyone to Superhuman speed from this is like saying because I can sprint at 5 meters/second, but usually walk at some slower speed, then my walking speed is actually as fast as my sprinting because I can do so at any time, completely ignoring that the latter is blatantly faster and thus someone walking at the same speed is actually walking as fast as I sprint, there's no argument here, they're visibly faster and trying to ignore that just leads to circular scaling and is also just ignoring what the game tells us purely for the sake of higher speed scaling

This only makes sense if you weren't a nightmare of unrestrained feral rage that has no reason to move around at a slower walking speed when hunting to kill people because it'd go against the key description of your character.

Considering the game makes the demogorgon slow down despite the lore telling us that it would never slow down and should be moving at it's higher speed constantly perhaps that's a sign that the in game movement speeds are simply not accurate to the lore?

 

[Soupywolf5]

Your argument against them scaling to it as a base speed is that the two animalistic creatures, one of which is described as "born of violence, designed to kill." and the other described as "a nightmare of unrestrained, feral rage" both decided to not move at their normal speeds for the ***** 'n giggles, going against key parts of their character? seriously?


I don't want the survivors to scale to the killers, that'd be ridiculous. I believe only the killers should scale among themselves for either having close to, or the same speed as the rest of them.

This only makes sense if you weren't a nightmare of unrestrained feral rage that has no reason to move around at a slower walking speed when hunting to kill people because it'd go against the key description of your character.

Their state of mind doesn't matter when the game itself says they're normally moving slower than their tunnel/upside down, you're trying to scale the speed of those to something that's we can blatantly see and is told to us by the game is much slower

They have the same/similar base movement speed, which the game tells us is 4.4 or 4.6 meters/second, Xeno and Demo being able to move faster in specific areas doesn't change that they're moving at that same base speed for the other 99% of the game

 

[Comiphorous]

Their state of mind doesn't matter when the game itself says they're normally moving slower than their tunnel/upside down, you're trying to scale the speed of those to something that's we can blatantly see and is told to us by the game is much slower

They have the same/similar base movement speed, which the game tells us is 4.4 or 4.6 meters/second, Xeno and Demo being able to move faster in specific areas doesn't change that they're moving at that same base speed for the other 99% of the game

You're getting closer. If the lore of the character, game and in-universe is directly contradicted for the sake of the game's balance, what does that make it...?

 

[Soupywolf5]

You're getting closer. If the lore of the character, game and in-universe is directly contradicted for the sake of the game's balance, what does that make it...?

What lore contradicts the in-game speeds? You've presented, at best, a few feats of Athletic Human to maybe Peak Human reaction speed, none of which would contradict their in-game movement speeds, nor would they even scale to more than the characters who directly perform them, the speeds in-game are all consistent with each other, the Xeno and Demo stuff are the only things that might be contradictions, (And that's assuming they even can move at those Superhuman speeds outside of the tunnels/upside down) but even ignoring the speed values, those movements are still visibly faster than the speed they usually move at, the Xeno's description also wouldn't translate to "moves as fast as it possibly can all the time." Being "designed to kill" doesn't mean incapable of thought or being full bloodlusted, the Xeno didn't immediately go for the kill when it stowed away on Ripley's escape pod, waiting some time before going to do so. The demogorgon's "knows no restraint" and always going for the kill contradicts the very idea of the Demo being a killer preserving its prey to sacrifice them to the entity, clearly it knows some restraint if it does that