The Galaxy Cauldron: High 1A+ Upgrade

[TiltedFN]

I have marked you down for disagree and I am ending my responses to you. You are obviously not acting in good faith and I am not wasting my time. If you don't know the basic facts of sailor moon and refuse to actually read the scans provided, then don't comment on a higher tier thread where people have to discuss complex topics. You can either read the cosmology blog, or make a question thread to ask these basic questions about the series.

This seems like extremely unwarranted behavior. I have seen nothing from MeiouHades but legit responses and concerns to your claims. You can't even engage in an argument without getting emotional. This is bad faith if I've ever seen it.

 

[Robo432343]

i agree with most of what you said but another cauldron springing into existence is not an anti feat...

 

[AsterReal]

This seems like extremely unwarranted behavior. I have seen nothing from meiouhades but legit responses and concerns to your claims. You can't even engage in an argument without getting emotional. This is bad faith if I've ever seen it.

Considering that most of the people commenting on the thread saw at least Low 1-A. I wouldn't say OP is in error. Meiou asked quite a few questions that showed he had no real context of the verse. It is basic knowledge that the Starseeds/Sailor Crystals come from the Galaxy Cauldron but Meiou for some reason asked if that is proven.

 

[TiltedFN]

Considering that most of the people commenting on the thread saw at least Low 1-A. I wouldn't say OP is in error. Meiou asked quite a few questions that showed he had no real context of the verse. It is basic knowledge that the Starseeds/Sailor Crystals come from the Galaxy Cauldron but Meiou for some reason asked if that is proven.

Appeal to popularity fallacy. More people agreeing doesn't mean they are right. You can not debate like that in good faith. Either address his arguments or its a concession. If hades is asking legit questions to get more context that can possibly sway his opinions, then those questions need to be answered.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

This is getting into derailing territory. Let's not lose sight of the actual debate.

 

[MeiouHades]

i agree with most of what you said but another cauldron springing into existence is not an anti feat...

It's more so that for a new one to spring into existence would mean the previous one has been destroyed which is the real anti-feat. Also not to mention that a "new" Cauldron, a space that supposedly predates everything, is still a pretty weird thing

 

[TiltedFN]

This is getting into derailing territory. Let's not lose sight of the actual debate.

It was only derailed when unanimous attacked hades for no reason at all. Instead of actually addressing his arguments. It doesn't have to be derailed if you actually engage in a conversation.

 

[MeiouHades]

Considering that most of the people commenting on the thread saw at least Low 1-A. I wouldn't say OP is in error. Meiou asked quite a few questions that showed he had no real context of the verse. It is basic knowledge that the Starseeds/Sailor Crystals come from the Galaxy Cauldron but Meiou for some reason asked if that is proven.

That was a minor edit in my comment that I immediately realized was stupid but forgot to remove it, to act like that's all that my responses have been when one of them was literally analyzing line-by-line the BDE page and comparing it to the evidence presented is beyond disingenuous. If this is what I'm being presented with then I have no reason to conclude anything other than the fact that the OP simply has no counter and scans to back up the claims that I've questioned and the questions I've raised.

 

[AsterReal]

Edit 2: Also, what evidence is there of the Cauldron creating the silver crystal? Is there actual evidence behind it that you didn't post or is it just an inference, and if it's the latter, what's it based off of?

In answer to your question the answer is yes. Every Starseed in the verse, even the Sailor Crystals exist because they were born from the Galaxy Cauldron. Sailor Moon's Sailor Crystal (The Silver Crystal/Silver Moon Crystal) even has the direct statement of containing power inherited from the Galaxy Cauldron as it "inherited the power of light from the beautiful Cauldron."

It is also stated by several characters that everything was born there. The Galaxy Cauldron also governs the System of rising and falling stars (Starseeds). When something dies it returns to the Galaxy Cauldron, the place from which that something "arose in the first place."

 

[HenshinIntervention]

It was only derailed when unanimous attacked hades for no reason at all. Instead of actually addressing his arguments. It doesn't have to be derailed if you actually engage in a conversation.

This is what I am talking about.

It's more so that for a new one to spring into existence would mean the previous one has been destroyed which is the real anti-feat. Also not to mention that a "new" Cauldron, a space that supposedly predates everything, is still a pretty weird thing

This is fairly simple to understand, I'm not sure why you're confused. If the Cauldron is somehow compromised, everything in the verse falls apart. Then somewhere and sometime else, a New Cauldron will appear and will make new histories.

Also this never actually happened so...

 

[AsterReal]

That was a minor edit in my comment that I immediately realized was stupid but forgot to remove it, to act like that's all that my responses have been when one of them was literally analyzing line-by-line the BDE page and comparing it to the evidence presented is beyond disingenuous. If this is what I'm being presented with then I have no reason to conclude anything other than the fact that the OP simply has no counter and scans to back up the claims that I've questioned and the questions I've raised.

Well, you have already been added as disagreeing, your arguments will be taken into account when the staff evaluates the thread. And I'm sorry if I offended you by how I referred to your arguments. But since your argument is presented. I think it is right for the staff to decide how to proceed.

 

[TiltedFN]

This is what I am talking about.

This is such a joke of a reply. When you know the reason it was derailed in the first place, was because of a user being passive aggressive for no reason. Anyways, maybe engage in a formal debate and that won't happen. But for now, hades seems to make the most sense here.

 

[MeiouHades]

In answer to your question the answer is yes. Every Starseed in the verse, even the Sailor Crystals exist because they were born from the Galaxy Cauldron. Sailor Moon's Sailor Crystal (The Silver Crystal/Silver Moon Crystal) even has the direct statement of containing power inherited from the Galaxy Cauldron as it "inherited the power of light from the beautiful Cauldron."

It is also stated by several characters that everything was born there. The Galaxy Cauldron also governs the System of rising and falling stars (Starseeds). When something dies it returns to the Galaxy Cauldron, the place from which that something "arose in the first place."

I've gotten my answer to that, read my response.

 

[AsterReal]

I've gotten my answer to that, read my response.

I sent this, before you replied. But I saw no reason to delete it. And yes, I did read the reply to my post.

 

[Robo432343]

It's more so that for a new one to spring into existence would mean the previous one has been destroyed which is the real anti-feat.

huh
what do you mean has been destroyed
it never got destroyed in the first placed
it says, "Even if this galaxy is destroyed...A new cauldron is sure to spring into existence somewhere else."

The spring into existence part supports the fact that its a fundamental structure of the universe no?
The scan is describing its importance not that its weak

Also not to mention that a "new" Cauldron, a space that supposedly predates everything, is still a pretty weird thing

how is that 'weird'

 

[AsterReal]

It's more so that for a new one to spring into existence would mean the previous one has been destroyed which is the real anti-feat. Also not to mention that a "new" Cauldron, a space that supposedly predates everything, is still a pretty weird thing

Well actually we don't even know if it can be destroyed. Sailor Moon is supposed to be able to destroy it because she inherited its power, and destroying it required her to use all her power. But later Sailor Cosmos (who asked Sailor Moon to destroy the Galaxy Cauldron.) She claims that no one can actually destroy it.

 

[MeiouHades]

This is fairly simple to understand, I'm not sure why you're confused. If the Cauldron is somehow compromised, everything in the verse falls apart. Then somewhere and sometime else, a New Cauldron will appear and will make new histories.

Also this never actually happened so...

Yeah no, I don't understand how you don't see why this is an anti-feat. A galaxy being destroyed would take down the Cauldron as well, a Low 1-A structure? Also I don't really see anything in those scan talking about new histories so I'm not sure what you mean by that. It doesn't say anything about everything in the verse falling apart, it merely talks about "this galaxy...." (which is oddly consistent with this scan that only talks about creation in this galaxy specifically, not even the whole universe) so I don't believe that's right either.

Also it never having happened is irrelevant, the fact that it's even a possibility is all we need to know that it's an anti-feat

 

[MeiouHades]

huh
what do you mean has been destroyed
it never got destroyed in the first placed
it says, "Even if this galaxy is destroyed...A new cauldron is sure to spring into existence somewhere else."

You really don't understand what this implies?

 

[Robo432343]

You really don't understand what this implies?

The fact that a new cauldron can spring into existence anyway even if the galaxy is destroyed shows its importance
your own scan proves it NOT being an anti feat...

 

[MeiouHades]

The fact that a new cauldron can spring into existence anyway even if the galaxy is destroyed shows its importance
your own scan proves it NOT being an anti feat...

Robo, read this very, very, VERY slowly. Why would a NEW Cauldron need to spring into existence?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

These scans right here basically state that the destruction of the galaxy will bring about the destruction of the Cauldron as well,

It literally does not. It says, "even if this galaxy is destroyed..." That does not imply what you're saying. Also the very scan you posted, says, "Ending everything". The galaxy would be included in everything.

 

[MeiouHades]

It literally does not. It says, "even if this galaxy is destroyed..." That does not imply what you're saying.

No I think it implies exactly that. What else would it imply exactly?

Also the very scan you posted, says, "Ending everything". The galaxy would be included in everything.

Right, my bad for not seeing that. And what would "everything" be here? The galaxy? The whole universe? The entire cosmology?

 

[AsterReal]

No I think it implies exactly that. What else would it imply exactly?

Right, my bad for not seeing that. And what would "everything" be here? The whole universe? The entire cosmology?

Well, unless I'm wrong. When someone talks about "everything" they mean every existing thing. Unless you specifically specify something, I don't know like "all boys or all girls" but when you say everything you mean every single thing.

 

[MeiouHades]

Well, unless I'm wrong. When someone talks about "everything" they mean every existing thing. Unless you specifically specify something, I don't know like "all boys or all girls" but when you say everything you mean every single thing.

Yeah, you're wrong here because for a verse you need some more specific context. For instance, it clearly talks about a galaxy here. Also, "ending" is not necessarily the same as destruction (it uses the term destruction in the same panel so clearly there's a distinction being made here) so "ending everything" can refer to many things. Also, a NEW Galaxy Cauldron would pop up..... where? At the center of another galaxy.... because it's a galactic center? Regardless, this is largely irrelevant because the fact that its destruction is even possible via the destruction of the galaxy alone is enough of an anti-feat.

Also, there still hasn't been any evidence or scans posted to back up the claims that I initially questioned. You can only achieve BDE Type 2 for a realm if it itself has either been stated to transcend all of space time OR has been stated to be utterly superior to or exceeding all dimensions. A statement like the former (though not the same, since it doesn't say ALL of space time) in the context of an object like the Silver Crystal is nigh-meaningless here. Don't debate me on this because these are just the standards I copy and pasted from the BDE page for you, you can either post scans to support this or realize it's a flawed line of scaling

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Yeah, you're wrong here because for a verse you need some more specific context. For instance, it clearly talks about a galaxy here. Also, "ending" is not necessarily the same as destruction (it uses the term destruction in the same panel so clearly there's a distinction being made here) so "ending everything" can refer to many things.

This is why I said I'm not responding to you anymore, and this will be my last response. The scan literally says, "ending everything" then says, "to let fall the scythe of death" and then talks about the galaxy being destroyed, and you want to say we need specific context for the use of the word, "ending"? Enough is enough.

 

[MeiouHades]

This is why I said I'm not responding to you anymore,

Because you have utterly no clue of how to respond to the questions I raised about you following the BDE Type 2 standards? That's fine but a better strategy, IMO, is to simply admit you're wrong.

The scan literally says, "ending everything" then says, "to let fall the scythe of death" and then talks about the galaxy being destroyed, and you want to say we need specific context for the use of the word, "ending"? Enough is enough.

That is specific context, yes, I was posing that as a rhetorical question and also in response to the person who claimed that its destruction would collapse the entire verse which is just not supported by the context on the panel which you've also laid out here. That was my point.

 

[Robo432343]

Robo, read this very, very, VERY slowly. Why would a NEW Cauldron need to spring into existence?

Just because a new instance of something can appear doesn't mean the original was fragile???? The Cauldron springing into existence again shows the the power of its existence not the weakness of it...Destroying ONE does not invalidate its power...in fact its literally the opposite...it proves that reality itself will spawn another, because it must exist...
And this is ignoring the fact that no one has actually destroyed the cauldron. Even Chaos resides within the Cauldron because it is quite literally unable to destroy it from the outside

everything else is fine ig

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Because you have utterly no clue of how to respond to the questions I raised about you following the BDE Type 2 standards? That's fine but a better strategy, IMO, is to simply admit you're wrong.

That is specific context, yes, I was posing that as a rhetorical question and also in response to the person who claimed that its destruction would collapse the entire verse which is just not supported by the context on the panel which you've also laid out here. That was my point.

The very next scans



Mention the universe twice in scope and that Sailor Moon encircles everything. This shows that everything in the previous scan was of universal scale.

 

[MeiouHades]

Just because a new instance of something can appear doesn't mean the original was fragile????

No..... it means the original was destroyed.... by the destruction of the galaxy.....

The Cauldron springing into existence again shows the the power of its existence not the weakness of it...Destroying ONE does not invalidate its power...in fact its literally the opposite...it proves that reality itself will spawn another, because it must exist...

Which doesn't change what I said.

And this is ignoring the fact that no one has actually destroyed the cauldron. Even Chaos resides within the Cauldron because it is quite literally unable to destroy it from the outside

That is entirely irrelevant

 

[Robo432343]

No..... it means the original was destroyed.... by the destruction of the galaxy.....

Which doesn't change what I said.

That is entirely irrelevant

why do you keep saying the original was destroyed
The Cauldron is never shown or stated to have been destroyed
what you are referring to is a hypothetical

Even if this galaxy is destroyed... a new Cauldron is sure to spring into existence elsewhere.

If you are saying that the galaxy destroyed = Cauldron destroyed then thats just wrong because the cauldron works beyond just a galaxy. It births star seeds which are accepted as type 1 concepts so it obviously has a greater role than than just a galaxy.

 

[MeiouHades]

The very next scans



Mention the universe twice in scope and that Sailor Moon encircles everything. This shows that everything in the previous scan was of universal scale.

The first scan is just describing a few metaphysical elements that make up a universe, the second one does seem more relevant since it refers to the future of this universe but regardless, as I said, this point is irrelevant and was mostly rhetorical in order to question the claim of it destroying everything in the verse

Now, are you going to debate the actual concerns I've raised regarding your adherence to BDE standards and post the scans/statements that support your claim, or not?

 

[MeiouHades]

why do you keep saying the original was destroyed

I NEVER said it was destroyed, I'm restating the hypothetical laid out in the manga itself. The destruction of the galaxy would destroy the Cauldron thereby prompting a new one to spring up. Why are you being obtuse here?

what you are referring to is a hypothetical

Color me shocked.

If you are saying that the galaxy destroyed = Cauldron destroyed then thats just wrong because the cauldron works beyond just a galaxy.

I am not saying that, the manga is

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The destruction of the galaxy would destroy the Cauldron thereby prompting a new one to spring up. Why are you being obtuse here?

Again. This is never stated.

 

[MeiouHades]

Again. This is never stated.

Yeah no, this is the DIRECT deduction that one can make from that panel, you're gonna need some hard evidence to refute this anti-feat.

Also PLEASE address the standard issues I've raised, it's insane how I have to practically beg the OP to defend their argument

 

[TiltedFN]

why do you keep saying the original was destroyed
The Cauldron is never shown or stated to have been destroyed
what you are referring to is a hypothetical

Its weird because you've done this to me as well. Why do you keep attacking a point that was NEVER made? You need to read the replies more carefully robo, it gets repetitive.

 

[MeiouHades]

Also for the record I don't care if the majority of the people here were fine with Low 1-A. I am not, and given the extreme liberties OP took with the standards (read: basically ignored them) just serves as more evidence of why that's an extremely fallacious measure to evaluate this or any CRT. Just means the majority were wrong and all the more reason for this thread to receive as much scrutiny as can be had, preferably from some staff now that are well verse in Tier 1 standards

 

[Robo432343]

I NEVER said it was destroyed, I'm restating the hypothetical laid out in the manga itself. The destruction of the galaxy would destroy the Cauldron thereby prompting a new one to spring up. Why are you being obtuse here?


Color me shocked.

I am not saying that, the manga is

but you are quoting a hypothetical scenario but treating it as if its a confirmed event tho??
when that wasnt shown to be the case because the cauldron actually ends up surviving

 

[MeiouHades]

buit you are quoting a hypothetical scenario but treating it as if its a confirmed event tho??

We use hypotheticals (events that have not occurred but are hinted at) all the time, both as feats and anti-feats. They're called statements, pretty important in power scaling.

 

[Robo432343]

We use hypotheticals (events that have no occurred) all the time, both as feats and anti-feats. They're called statements, pretty important in power scaling.

i agree with that but the problem lies with how you interpret the hypothetical which is what's going on here
that hypothetical statement is not supported by any actual feat of the cauldron being destroyed

 

[MeiouHades]

i agree with that but the problem lies with how you interpret the hypothetical which is what's going on here
that hypothetical statement is not supported by any actual feat of the cauldron being destroyed

I am interpreting nothing. I am quoting the manga statement and making a very direct, most basic deduction from that statement. No interpretation or implication is necessary here.

Galaxy (which contains the Cauldron) destroyed = NEW Cauldron
Therefore, we deduce that the current one must've been destroyed or at least rendered non-functional to the point an entirely new one is needed.

This is basic stuff, stop this.