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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

A lot of complaints about MHA's animation were complaints about direction that was misattributed to animation.

For example, we got some smooth animation back in Season 6 but they didn't match the vision and feel of the scene in the manga at all, so it was underwhelming.
 
Ngl I'm surprised y'all have even been bothering arguing about this, especially if you've been power scaling for awhile. Author statements are cool and all but most people usually just ignore them and use straight feats or scaling. I've noticed people only really consider author or guidebook statements if it falls in line with calculations or scaling already shown. Most authors don't really do calculations like you do, they usually just go with what they think looks cool. Like yeah they made the series and have an idea on things, obviously, but if you asked them how to calculate the AP of a particular move they'd have no idea what the hell you're talking about
It should be the other way around btw
 
It should be the other way around btw
Not really. Somethings Authors say can completely retcon the story so dramatically that the entire plot would change. For example CW Flash has canonically never ran faster than sound until fighting Girder in ep 6. This statement means everyone in the train derailing scene in ep 4 is dead AF.

Or Goku only being able to lift 8 tons in Base (as a adult with power level in billions no less) means that he would never be able to move the rock Roshi told him to move and thus never complete his training.

There are also Opposite effect of this. Like video game scaling which borders on delusions.

Like Kratos being rated Class Z and Immeasurable despite having multiple and by that I mean in the 10's of dozens instances (scripted for story progression with dedicated dialogues and cutscenes no less) where he has to go on detours and roundabouts because of stuff like boulders in his way.

Or Doom Slayer being rated G class despite requiring key cards for doors and again needing detours due to obstacles. "For killing a titan with bare hands" Where *****, wasn't Dark ages "LORE EXPLORED CINEMATICALLY" I don't see anything past building level without the mech.
 
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New final season trailer shows Armored All Might dodging AFO Radio Waves after they were fired
 
If it's an anime-original scene and not an expansion of a manga-original scene it's not gonna be treated as canon.

Also, the honest answer is that author statements are only taken seriously if it corroborates your own scaling. If it inflates or deflates the scale of a verse it gets rejected.
Although of course most people would look favorably at author statements that makes the verse more powerful. There are verses here which are infamous due to powerscalers pestering the authors with curated powerscaling questions.
 
If it's an anime-original scene and not an expansion of a manga-original scene it's not gonna be treated as canon.

Also, the honest answer is that author statements are only taken seriously if it corroborates your own scaling. If it inflates or deflates the scale of a verse it gets rejected.
Although of course most people would look favorably at author statements that makes the verse more powerful. There are verses here which are infamous due to powerscalers pestering the authors with curated powerscaling questions.
Deku destroys the moon anime only scene when
 
If the anime is supervised by Horikoshi like the movies then you can argue for it.
That's how Bleach got the anime canonized IIRC
 
Well if the value is good for speed then we can argue the canon later. Maybe even Separate the profiles in the speed value difference is far too great as Manga Deku and Bones Deku like DB does for Goku profiles.

The anime has good chance to make us revise everything anyway as final punch's result could drastically change when animated. I consider anime orginial scenes to be canon. It is a official adaptation after all and we consider the movies as canon.
 
Well if the value is good for speed then we can argue the canon later. Maybe even Separate the profiles in the speed value difference is far too great as Manga Deku and Bones Deku like DB does for Goku profiles.

The anime has good chance to make us revise everything anyway as final punch's result could drastically change when animated. I consider anime orginial scenes to be canon. It is a official adaptation after all and we consider the movies as canon.
Really want it to happen so we could use Jirou intercepting EM Waves lol
 
Not really. Somethings Authors say can completely retcon the story so dramatically that the entire plot would change. For example CW Flash has canonically never ran faster than sound until fighting Girder in ep 6. This statement means everyone in the train derailing scene in ep 4 is dead AF.

Or Goku only being able to lift 8 tons in Base (as a adult with power level in billions no less) means that he would never be able to move the rock Roshi told him to move and thus never complete his training.

There are also Opposite effect of this. Like video game scaling which borders on delusions.

Like Kratos being rated Class Z and Immeasurable despite having multiple and by that I mean in the 10's of dozens instances (scripted for story progression with dedicated dialogues and cutscenes no less) where he has to go on detours and roundabouts because of stuff like boulders in his way.

Or Doom Slayer being rated G class despite requiring key cards for doors and again needing detours due to obstacles. "For killing a titan with bare hands" Where *****, wasn't Dark ages "LORE EXPLORED CINEMATICALLY" I don't see anything past building level without the mech.
If Flash could only reach supersonic speeds until Episode 6, that only means the feat performed in Episode 4 requires subsonic to transonic speeds within the lore of its series, not that everyone died in an hypothetical calc accurate version.

If Goku can only lift 8 tons, that only means that within the story, Roshi's Rock was visualized as weighing less than 8 tons in canon. If the story had directly told you "This boulder weighs 6 tons," do you think that would be less valid when estimating how the feat is presented to us compared to just ignoring it and estimating the area?

CW Flash is a bad example in itself because it's especially inconsistent.

The Kratos and Doomslayer examples seem odd to me because I'm sure they're highballed af, due to the logic I already mentioned, but I don't have the energy to argue that with the defenders of the verse.
 
If Flash could only reach supersonic speeds until Episode 6, that only means the feat performed in Episode 4 requires subsonic to transonic speeds within the lore of its series, not that everyone died in an hypothetical calc accurate version.
Then that renders this entire website and community's rules as utterly pointless doesn't it. Ok what it said feat was something way less complex. Like say running a distance in a specified time. But later said speed is unachievable thus making the previous feat along with the plot Impossible to happen "Within the lore" doesn't magically change parameters of the feat itself.
If Goku can only lift 8 tons, that only means that within the story, Roshi's Rock was visualized as weighing less than 8 tons in canon. If the story had directly told you "This boulder weighs 6 tons," do you think that would be less valid when estimating how the feat is presented to us compared to just ignoring it and estimating the area?
It would still be massively invalid as Goku here only has a power level of 80, while the Goku in Z is alteast over 150 million. In the scene that the 8 ton feat happens, he then lifts 40 when in his Super Saiyan form and other than this power level increase amounting to proportional increase in physical strength and speed is stated multiple times within the show, manga and guide books.

This if Goku increase in power level by 1.875 million only increases his strength only by a mere 1.3 times then most things that happen in Z could never happen, breaking the plot itself.
CW Flash is a bad example in itself because it's especially inconsistent.
That is exactly why it is a good example.
The Kratos and Doomslayer examples seem odd to me because I'm sure they're highballed af, due to the logic I already mentioned, but I don't have the energy to argue that with the defenders of the verse.
That was the part where I was talking about the opposite effect of statements breaking the plot with more power that needed for the things to play out like they did. For example, making a whole ass adventure game on a immeasurable speed character by scaling him to another character that died due to a catapult.

Most Video game scaling is puke inducingly stupid.
 
Then that renders this entire website and community's rules as utterly pointless doesn't it. Ok what it said feat was something way less complex. Like say running a distance in a specified time. But later said speed is unachievable thus making the previous feat along with the plot Impossible to happen "Within the lore" doesn't magically change parameters of the feat itself.

It would still be massively invalid as Goku here only has a power level of 80, while the Goku in Z is alteast over 150 million. In the scene that the 8 ton feat happens, he then lifts 40 when in his Super Saiyan form and other than this power level increase amounting to proportional increase in physical strength and speed is stated multiple times within the show, manga and guide books.

This if Goku increase in power level by 1.875 million only increases his strength only by a mere 1.3 times then most things that happen in Z could never happen, breaking the plot itself.

That is exactly why it is a good example.

That was the part where I was talking about the opposite effect of statements breaking the plot with more power that needed for the things to play out like they did. For example, making a whole ass adventure game on a immeasurable speed character by scaling him to another character that died due to a catapult.

Most Video game scaling is puke inducingly stupid.
The first and second examples are fundamentally different because one requires many more assumptions from the creator's vision than the other.

If someone tells you "he can travel 3 kilometers in less than 5 seconds," the author is already giving you factual data with which to interpret the feat. Distance in lore/time in lore = speed in lore. In that case, you're being given another type of feat (speed) very implicitly, to the point that it's like describing the same thing with different words.

If they then tell you that "the character hasn't yet reached speeds above Mach 1.5," it's no different than directly telling you in episode A that the character is supersonic, only to be told in episode B that they've only just reached subsonic speed. An inconsistency (or a retcon, depending on how consistent it remains at this point), but one caused by two explicitly canonical information points. It's no different than a character going from having a blue pet cat to having a blue pet dog. With calcs, the only inconsistencies are between a fandom element and a canonical one, meaning one that doesn't officially exist.

However, in the case where a feat is never described in lore at a specific speed level, but many, much more complex estimates are made to arrive at a value. which then doesn't match what was said in the series, it's a much more complex and dismissible case of extrapolation in terms of the author's vision.

The wiki rules wouldn't be irrelevant (If a character destroys a building or crosses half the city before anyone blinks, there is no reason not to calculate what we know the author wants to show us about what the character can do, which up to this point is only what has been visually represented.) because I'm not saying that calculations have no validity whatsoever, only that they are below the hierarchy of how to understand fiction when an author expresses their understanding of their work.

(Unless it's an absurd case like (for example) Duncan Rouleau, who wasn't the only one involved in Ben 10, commenting 15 years later on something that contradicts what was seen in the show.)

And the Flash example is bad because it's ESPECIALLY inconsistent. I dare say that most modern stories respect their levels of consistency more than Flash CW.

Goku's example isn't that terrible since as far as I remember he can apply more force while not flying, and even if that weren't the case, it's not really like lifting force has been shown in DB to increase uniformly with ki level compared to striking force
 
because I'm not saying that calculations have no validity whatsoever, only that they are below the hierarchy of how to understand fiction when an author expresses their understanding of their work.
That's a fundamentally stupid statement because Author aren't always writing with precision in comparison to a calc. They can and do forget things that audience don't. They forget whole ass characters much less things like speed or power.

It basically makes the whole Battle boarding part utterly pointless if a factually wrong statement aka retcon precedes a calculation. Most of the time Authors have no idea about any of it so their statements and estimates are often very wrong.

And Author's vision is never consistent. Like the Flash. Sometimes there are episode writers who greatly differ. Sometimes whole production crew changes mid season. Author's vision is in no way a valid reason to throw out a calc.

Those complex estimates are still more accurate than just rolling with whatever the author says. Say the whole Train example you said that "In the context of the lore Flash saved those passengers at subsonic speed"

How, No tell me how ? Does saying LORE change The gravity ? Inertia ? This isn't a Youtube poll of a Kratos matchup to just say Lore GG. He couldn't have saved those passengers at subsonic speed. We know it because of Educated Calculations not Estimates. Thus either Barry was moving at Hypersonic speed or the scene goes very different and very darkly. There is no "b..but lore" here.
 
Not really. Somethings Authors say can completely retcon the story so dramatically that the entire plot would change. For example CW Flash has canonically never ran faster than sound until fighting Girder in ep 6. This statement means everyone in the train derailing scene in ep 4 is dead AF.

Or Goku only being able to lift 8 tons in Base (as a adult with power level in billions no less) means that he would never be able to move the rock Roshi told him to move and thus never complete his training.

There are also Opposite effect of this. Like video game scaling which borders on delusions.

Like Kratos being rated Class Z and Immeasurable despite having multiple and by that I mean in the 10's of dozens instances (scripted for story progression with dedicated dialogues and cutscenes no less) where he has to go on detours and roundabouts because of stuff like boulders in his way.

Or Doom Slayer being rated G class despite requiring key cards for doors and again needing detours due to obstacles. "For killing a titan with bare hands" Where *****, wasn't Dark ages "LORE EXPLORED CINEMATICALLY" I don't see anything past building level without the mech.
You're confusing elements of the argument.

I'm not saying that authors think about the feats in their stories in relation to the accuracy of a calc or comparable to that level of accuracy—quite the opposite.

I'm saying that authors don't think about that, but calcs based on visual representation are the best you can get AS LONG AS the author doesn't directly express their vision.

Even without citations, like the horikoshi one, or calcs, authors won't be able to achieve pinpoint consistency, true, but an author can still maintain a certain level of ballpark in the story

For example, a character who, with serious blows, destroys walls, rooms, buildings... All of those feats aren't on the same level, but they have a ballpark where their power is estimable. They're not jumping from wall to planet level durability and then being damaged by something Explicitly building level. And even if that were the case, if the character then continues to endure things related to a wall-large building, you can simply see the planet feat as an outlier to how the author normally represents it. And well, there's nothing wrong with calculating those feats and estimating that they would end up being able to withstand attacks of 2.3 tons.

The whole argument about "how is it possible that Flash could achieve that without being hypersonic just for the lore?", is kinda Fallacious, its straight up because it's a fictional story. Even the wiki itself doesn't assume that because a character in lore is capable of exerting a measurable characteristic in X element, that makes them capable of replicating all the elements that would actually be required, such as assuming MHS characters are Town because they hit at that speed, or assuming they have good heat resistance if the story doesn't show friction as an element.

Even the wiki's analysis of fiction accepts that in the context of the story, implications that mathematically should exist can be ignored because fiction is a general imitation of reality, until it shows us elements where it contradicts itself, like the ones I just mentioned.

For example, in Dragon Ball, you don't assume that Krillin is secretly not a human because only by training can he do things that no real human could EVER achieve. You only accept that within the logic of DB, a human can achieve those things even if they are just human.
 
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IIRC the reasoning is that you can't scale LS when the characters can't exert their LS by being too restrained to even move in the first place.
 
You are disregarding consistency. It's not a jump of building level mostly to planet level due to the author statement. It's the other way around. A character who consistently displays power in the planetary range being downgraded to building level because of one author statement.

Same goes for Flash. He has multiple of massively hypersonic to massively ftl speeds. Thus you can't disreagrd dozens of those for just one statement.

"It's fiction so it makes sense" **** no it doesn't. You just replaced Lore with fiction but are spouting the same BS. Again Explain HOW. We aren't talking about some 2 bit ability that showed up due to action sequence. We are talking about the main power of the protagonist that is consistently on said level through multiple feats be it the train feat, dodging lightning or intercepting bullets.

"By the wiki's rule" my ass. By Wiki's rule flash is rated at High Hypersonic with said feat. And Goku is rated Class K with his feat. By the wiki's rule consistent Feats precede author statement. If you are completely going to throw out all fun elements of battle boarding and rely on author statements then sure, live with the delusion of Invincible beating superman because Author said so.

Funny you put author statements on such a pedestal but hate videogame scaling specially because it is bloated and highballed by said author statements. Hypocrite,
 
Well, Prime AFO is stated and shown to be faster than his weakened self so that honestly works
(If the anime feat is accepted as canon, we can upscale Prime All might, Complete Shigaraki, 100% Deku, and Cluster Bakugo back to SOL)
Wouldn't Deku be FTL for being to blitz Shigaraki ?
 
Wouldn't Deku be FTL for being to blitz Shigaraki ?
FTL with fajin for sure, far higher with Gearshift.
Though, I guess due to Deku's OFA being slightly stronger and better than PRime All might's, by definition, he'd be ftl (baseline though and it'd barely makes a difference)
 
If it's an anime-original scene and not an expansion of a manga-original scene it's not gonna be treated as canon.

Also, the honest answer is that author statements are only taken seriously if it corroborates your own scaling. If it inflates or deflates the scale of a verse it gets rejected.
Although of course most people would look favorably at author statements that makes the verse more powerful. There are verses here which are infamous due to powerscalers pestering the authors with curated powerscaling questions.
I've been wondering about that. Dragon ball has separate scaling for the anime, manga, and even promotional material like heroes. Is dragon ball just an exception because it's dragon ball or are you guys just trying to keep it manga only?
 
I've been wondering about that. Dragon ball has separate scaling for the anime, manga, and even promotional material like heroes. Is dragon ball just an exception because it's dragon ball or are you guys just trying to keep it manga only?
Dragon ball anime and manga are like completely different. That’s why they’re split.
 
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