Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint: Status

[Digital_Franz]

Hello everyone.

This thread will handle the layers of HAX in the verse. The key concepts are stories and status, which had been evaluated here.

Status is a kind of representation of the level of existence of a being and the power of its stories. During a confrontation between two opponents, the difference in Status will not be played on the physical stats that can be increased but on the HAX. Indeed, skills and abilities working with Status will be ineffective against an opponent with a comparable or higher Status and vice versa.

The quantity and quality of stories results in a difference in the quantity and quality of status, and thus a difference in level between beings, and the difference is absolute. The difference in status allows to exert a considerable influence on those with a lower status, to crush an opponent with a lower status and to resist the abilities of an opponent with a lower status.

The resistance of passives depends on the difference in status. For abilities to work on an opponent, the status must be at least comparable to that of the opponent. And for constellations, it's possible to extend infinitely within a rank and only be completely overwhelmed by those of the rank above.

Spoiler: Hierarchy

Incarnations (Main Scenarios 1-8; This will play as a baseline for abilities and resistances, due to characters like Yoo Joonghyuk with Sage's Eye, a status-based skill and mental barriers) < Incarnations (Main Scenario 9; From this scenario onwards, incarnations begin to gain stories, granting an absolute difference above the previous scenarios.) < Top Tiers/Rankers (Main Scenario 9; Those with the most stories) < Disasters (Full Power; Comparable to the shadow of a constellation like Yamata no Orochi) < Original 73rd Demon King (Main Scenario 9; Has fewer restrictions than the shadow of a constellation like Yamata no Orochi) < Low-grade Dokkaebis (By nature they are surpassed only by the constellations and the Outer Gods) < Kim Dokja (Main Scenario 9; Half constellation, is lower than a Historical-grade constellation) < Yoo Joonghyuk (Main Scenario 9; Is a low-tier transcendent) = Transcendent (Lower Stages; Are comparable to constellations, Historical-grade for Lower Stages) <= Historical-grade < Cheok Jungyeong (Is the strongest of the Historical-grade constellations, crushed another Historical-grade with his status)

While this one isn't clear, here's a rough overview.

Intermediate Dokkaebis (Possess statuses comparable to those of some Narrative-grade constellations and can resist their true voices) = < Transcendents (Higher Stages; Transcendents like Yoo Joonghyuk and Kyrgios are comparable to Narrative-grade) < Narrative-grade Constellations < Universe (So broken) < Outer Gods (Reason why they are below Myth-grade here) = < Myth-grade Constellations < Strongest Outer Gods (Those comparable to Nameless Mist) = Apocalypse Dragon (Can one-shot almost anything in the Star Stream) < Outer God Kings (Secretive Plotter, heavenly weakened, was still considered the most powerful constellation but he got haxed badly by the Living Flame) < Dokkaebi King = < Secretive Plotter

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

it's possible to extend infinitely within a rank and

I don't think this work for infinite layers tbh, it say "Infinitely closer to Mythical grade" rather than "extend infinitely within legendary grade".

I rather create a layer scaling chain by feats than using this, more coherent imo.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I don't think this work for infinite layers tbh, it say "Infinitely closer to Mythical grade" rather than "extend infinitely within legendary grade".

Yeah he's close but he'll never reach it until he acquires completely different stories (myths).

I rather create a layer scaling chain by feats than using this, more coherent imo.

The thing is, with this, it's just impossible to get out a chain scaling because between humans there are many layers (we can't know how many), same for transcendents and constellations which have differences even in the same ranks.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

The thing is, with this, it's just impossible to get out a chain scaling because between humans there are many layers (we can't know how many), same for transcendents and constellations which have differences even in the same ranks.

I mean, using whatever is shown within the novel is close enough.

 

[FinePoint]

I agree with Rakih_Elyan.

We should analyze the layers (for the sake of this wiki) based off feats, since otherwise we give into a NLF and run into problems with unfair verse equalization.

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

I agree with Rakih_Elyan.

We should analyze the layers (for the sake of this wiki) based off feats, since otherwise we give into a NLF and run into problems with unfair verse equalization.

what feats would suffice for that level?it is basically that verse has UES which is called status, status depends on one's stories, the more and better stories you have, the greater status which influences your physical stats/hax. we for sure have resistance-breaking feats based on status difference between ranks(this however will be 5 layers only), but the argument of post seems to say that status within same rank can also differ greatly and the top being of lower rank can be infinitely close to becoming higher rank but still get negated in the same vein as lowest being of the lower rank will.

 

[FinePoint]

what feats would suffice for that level?it is basically that verse has UES which is called status, status depends on one's stories, the more and better stories you have, the greater status which influences your physical stats/hax. we for sure have resistance-breaking feats based on status difference between ranks(this however will be 5 layers only), but the argument of post seems to say that status within same rank can also differ greatly and the top being of lower rank can be infinitely close to becoming higher rank but still get negated in the same vein as lowest being of the lower rank will.

Well, for the record, I don't think there is a feat which would reasonably qualify for "infinite" layers of hax, as that is a massive NLF without immense elaboration.

However, for each layer: any feat of a character affecting someone who resisted the same effect from some other source, or vice versa for resistance.

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

Well, for the record, I don't think there is a feat which would reasonably qualify for "infinite" layers of hax, as that is a massive NLF without immense elaboration.

However, for each layer: any feat of a character affecting someone who resisted the same effect from some other source, or vice versa for resistance.

what i present now won't be a full argument, but just to give a general idea how ranks work. we will start from showing layers just by rank only and then progress to infinite argument.

we differentiate between incarnations(which is basically just humans with superpowers) and constellations(that are divided into either of 3 ranks: historical(lowest),narrative(middle),myth(highest))

I will show the difference based on attacks using True Voice

The True Voice of normal(meaning historical) constellation can shatter incarnation's mind, the voice of even higher constellation will destroy their soul.

Constellations of the same rank can normally speak with each other in their true voices without negative effects

While true voice of myth-grade constellation casually affects narrative-grades in similar manner that historical constellation affects incarnation

Likewise, true voice of narrative-grade is dangerous to historical-grade

status comes from true voices

This would go: Incarnation(base since they have their own mind/madness attacks that they can resist within their own rank)>historical(1 layer, shatters any incarnation's defense as long as it isn't directly protected by another constellation)>narrative(2 layers, breaks their natural true voice resistance based on status)>myth(3 layers, breaks their natural true voice resistance based on status)

then

true voice of outer god king can influence myth-grade constellation

Dokkaebi's King status can negate outer god king(secretive plotter) ability and overcome might of combined other outer god kings, who can easily overwhelm myth grade

No myth grade can contend with Dokkaebi King

Based on this, Dokkaebi King can get 4th layer

Dokkaebi King is world(star stream) itself, if he dies, world vanishes too

As a owner of final wall, oldest dream can interfere and overwrite worldview

This dokkaebi king cant resist being overwritten, it is likely status diff so possibly 5th layer to final wall(and oldest dream who can use it)

So far you agree?

 

[FinePoint]

So far you agree?

So far it seems logical.

And I'd like to point out that having even five layers of hax means they would already affect a vast majority of all characters even with resistance.

 

[Theglassman12]

I don't really see being "infinitely close to the next rank" as unquantifiable layers, that just means he got really close to being in the next rank, which would mean that their status would increase if it did which results in their resistances being bypassed.

As for the layered hax itself I'm fine with it, the amount of layers idk much on until there's some elaboration.

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

I don't really see being "infinitely close to the next rank" as unquantifiable layers, that just means he got really close to being in the next rank, which would mean that their status would increase if it did which results in their resistances being bypassed.

As for the layered hax itself I'm fine with it, the amount of layers idk much on until there's some elaboration.

This comment specifies the number of layers we can get if we base it solely on rank

 

[Theglassman12]

So 5 layers at best then? Looks fine to me.

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

So far it seems logical.

And I'd like to point out that having even five layers of hax means they would already affect a vast majority of all characters even with resistance.

So 5 layers at best then? Looks fine to me.

However, before applying any changes and bringing in explanation to the wiki page, wait for OP response i think he is coming up with the reply to defend the unquantifiable layers position.

But yeah, if it doesn't cut in the end, I guess 5 is where we can settle it

 

[Danny33wise]

5 layers seems fine I guess.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I don't really see being "infinitely close to the next rank" as unquantifiable layers, that just means he got really close to being in the next rank, which would mean that their status would increase if it did which results in their resistances being bypassed.

Fair, that wasn't the core of my argument since I would have gone for infinite layers then.

As for the layered hax itself I'm fine with it, the amount of layers idk much on until there's some elaboration.

So that's my point, since the difference is quantitative and qualitative, in absolute terms, I see it much more like the unquantifiable layers in Tier 1-A and above, which are high but the number is unknown. Well, I mainly wanted to relaunch the discussion where we left off and it seems that it's still not enough.

I agree with Rakih_Elyan.

We should analyze the layers (for the sake of this wiki) based off feats, since otherwise we give into a NLF and run into problems with unfair verse equalization.

Well, for the record, I don't think there is a feat which would reasonably qualify for "infinite" layers of hax, as that is a massive NLF without immense elaboration.

However, for each layer: any feat of a character affecting someone who resisted the same effect from some other source, or vice versa for resistance.

Well, any character in the verse can resist all abilities as long as they have a status that allows them to do so.

For Infinite Layers, I guess it's somewhat true that it requires elaboration? I mean, I was inspired by this, although the context is clearer.

what i present now won't be a full argument, but just to give a general idea how ranks work. we will start from showing layers just by rank only and then progress to infinite argument.

we differentiate between incarnations(which is basically just humans with superpowers) and constellations(that are divided into either of 3 ranks: historical(lowest),narrative(middle),myth(highest))

I will show the difference based on attacks using True Voice

The True Voice of normal(meaning historical) constellation can shatter incarnation's mind, the voice of even higher constellation will destroy their soul.

Constellations of the same rank can normally speak with each other in their true voices without negative effects

While true voice of myth-grade constellation casually affects narrative-grades in similar manner that historical constellation affects incarnation

Likewise, true voice of narrative-grade is dangerous to historical-grade

status comes from true voices

This would go: Incarnation(base since they have their own mind/madness attacks that they can resist within their own rank)>historical(1 layer, shatters any incarnation's defense as long as it isn't directly protected by another constellation)>narrative(2 layers, breaks their natural true voice resistance based on status)>myth(3 layers, breaks their natural true voice resistance based on status)

then

true voice of outer god king can influence myth-grade constellation

Dokkaebi's King status can negate outer god king(secretive plotter) ability and overcome might of combined other outer god kings, who can easily overwhelm myth grade

No myth grade can contend with Dokkaebi King

Based on this, Dokkaebi King can get 4th layer

Dokkaebi King is world(star stream) itself, if he dies, world vanishes too

As a owner of final wall, oldest dream can interfere and overwrite worldview

This dokkaebi king cant resist being overwritten, it is likely status diff so possibly 5th layer to oldest dream

So far you agree?

Although it's rank-based, it lacks substance. Here's a small portion.

Incarnations (Main Scenarios 1-8; This will play as a baseline for abilities and resistances, due to characters like Yoo Joonghyuk with Sage's Eye, a status-based skill and mental barriers) < Incarnations (Main Scenario 9; From this scenario onwards, incarnations begin to gain stories, granting an absolute difference above the previous scenarios.) < Top Tiers/Rankers (Main Scenario 9; Those with the most stories) < Disasters (Full Power; Comparable to the shadow of a constellation like Yamata no Orochi) < Original 73rd Demon King (Main Scenario 9; Has fewer restrictions than the shadow of a constellation like Yamata no Orochi) < Low-grade Dokkaebis (By nature they are surpassed only by the constellations and the Outer Gods) < Kim Dokja (Main Scenario 9; Half constellation, is lower than a Historical-grade constellation) < Yoo Joonghyuk (Main Scenario 9; Is a low-tier transcendent) = Transcendent (Lower Stages; Are comparable to constellations, Historical-grade for Lower Stages) <= Historical-grade < Cheok Jungyeong (Is the strongest of the Historical-grade constellations, crushed another Historical-grade with his status)

In the hierarchy above, it seems the Outer God Kings weren't counted as a layer. While I don't have a clear hierarchy, here's a rough overview.

Intermediate Dokkaebis < Transcendents (Higher Stages; Transcendents like Yoo Joonghyuk and Kyrgios are comparable to Narrative-grade) < Narrative-grade Constellations < Universe (So broken) < Outer Gods (Reason why they are below Myth-grade here) = < Myth-grade Constellations < Strongest Outer Gods (Those comparable to Nameless Mist) = Apocalypse Dragon (Can one-shot almost anything in the Star Stream) < Outer God Kings (Secretive Plotter, heavenly weakened, was still considered the most powerful constellation but he got haxed badly by the Living Flame) < Dokkaebi King < Secretive Plotter

Even for Narrative-grade constellations, there are many levels, such as the sun being superior to some constellations, the hierarchy with the sun gods, etc. and Michael above. Objects even have places in this thing.

Regarding Oldest Dream, I don't think it's a layering issue because the concept of status doesn't apply to him; it's more of a form of Resistance Negation that he possesses.

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

actually what i used for oldest dream was moreso him using final wall, so instead of it being oldest dream it is more so final wall's 'status' that performs an action
, and we know it has one because fourth wall, a fragment of final wall, has a status. so the 'final' layer will belong to it(and by extension to anyone who can use final wall such as oldest dream)

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Not good with layers, but yeah, I agree it's best to use a chain.

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

Not good with layers, but yeah, I agree it's best to use a chain.

Using this and this combined chain scales is fine? So far both FinePoint and Glassman agreed to well showed proof for 5 layers, with latest message, the layers go up to 20, would the reasoning for the new chain be enough?

 

[Theglassman12]

How does it go up to 20? I’m counting up to 10 at best unless I’m missing something

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

How does it go up to 20? I’m counting up to 10 at best unless I’m missing something

From Franz message:

"Incarnations (Main Scenarios 1-8; This will play as a baseline for abilities and resistances, due to characters like Yoo Joonghyuk with Sage's Eye, a status-based skill and mental barriers) < Incarnations (Main Scenario 9; From this scenario onwards, incarnations begin to gain stories, granting an absolute difference above the previous scenarios.) < Top Tiers/Rankers (Main Scenario 9; Those with the most stories) < Disasters (Full Power; Comparable to the shadow of a constellation like Yamata no Orochi) < Original 73rd Demon King (Main Scenario 9; Has fewer restrictions than the shadow of a constellation like Yamata no Orochi) < Low-grade Dokkaebis (By nature they are surpassed only by the constellations and the Outer Gods) < Kim Dokja (Main Scenario 9; Half constellation, is lower than a Historical-grade constellation) < Yoo Joonghyuk (Main Scenario 9; Is a low-tier transcendent) = Transcendent (Lower Stages; Are comparable to constellations, Historical-grade for Lower Stages) <= Historical-grade < Cheok Jungyeong (Is the strongest of the Historical-grade constellations, crushed another Historical-grade with his status)"

here the last stage(cheok jungyeong) is 9th layer, then, from his message he continued:

"Intermediate Dokkaebis < Transcendents (Higher Stages; Transcendents like Yoo Joonghyuk and Kyrgios are comparable to Narrative-grade) < Narrative-grade Constellations < Universe (So broken) < Outer Gods (Reason why they are below Myth-grade here) = < Myth-grade Constellations < Strongest Outer Gods (Those comparable to Nameless Mist) = Apocalypse Dragon (Can one-shot almost anything in the Star Stream) < Outer God Kings (Secretive Plotter, heavenly weakened, was still considered the most powerful constellation but he got haxed badly by the Living Flame) < Dokkaebi King"

here it is Dokkaebi King 18th layer. I clipped him having Secretive Plotter above Dokkaebi King because Dokkaebi King can negate his skills via own status so there can't be a difference, instead the 19th layer will have Final Wall from explanation here for fifth layer with which you were fine.

I give it you agreed with initial 5 layers stuff, does the new spike to 19 hold up to you in terms of evidence?

 

[FinePoint]

The newer evidence is confusing me a little. It seems to still rely on assuming just having a higher status is enough for a new layer, but previously we seemingly agreed we should use direct feats instead.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The newer evidence is confusing me a little. It seems to still rely on assuming just having a higher status is enough for a new layer, but previously we seemingly agreed we should use direct feats instead.

Nothing really changes compared to the post you accepted, the post was just solely based on the constellation ranks. It is directly shown that with a higher status it is possible to bypass resistances, that this difference is in quantity and quality and that it is absolute. And again, it is directly said that even within the same rank there are differences, directly related to the layers.

 

[Theglassman12]

is there anything to show the Intermediate Dokkaebis are above historical grade constellations? If so then I can see the 17-18th layers of hax.

 

[Digital_Franz]

is there anything to show the Intermediate Dokkaebis are above historical grade constellations? If so then I can see the 17-18th layers of hax.

There is an Intermediate Dokkaebi who was unaffected by the true voice of a constellation. Also their status is higher than that of the constellation in question.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Although it's rank-based, it lacks substance. Here's a small portion.

Incarnations (Main Scenarios 1-8; This will play as a baseline for abilities and resistances, due to characters like Yoo Joonghyuk with Sage's Eye, a status-based skill and mental barriers) < Incarnations (Main Scenario 9; From this scenario onwards, incarnations begin to gain stories, granting an absolute difference above the previous scenarios.) < Top Tiers/Rankers (Main Scenario 9; Those with the most stories) < Disasters (Full Power; Comparable to the shadow of a constellation like Yamata no Orochi) < Original 73rd Demon King (Main Scenario 9; Has fewer restrictions than the shadow of a constellation like Yamata no Orochi) < Low-grade Dokkaebis (By nature they are surpassed only by the constellations and the Outer Gods) < Kim Dokja (Main Scenario 9; Half constellation, is lower than a Historical-grade constellation) < Yoo Joonghyuk (Main Scenario 9; Is a low-tier transcendent) = Transcendent (Lower Stages; Are comparable to constellations, Historical-grade for Lower Stages) <= Historical-grade < Cheok Jungyeong (Is the strongest of the Historical-grade constellations, crushed another Historical-grade with his status)

In the hierarchy above, it seems the Outer God Kings weren't counted as a layer. While I don't have a clear hierarchy, here's a rough overview.

Intermediate Dokkaebis < Transcendents (Higher Stages; Transcendents like Yoo Joonghyuk and Kyrgios are comparable to Narrative-grade) < Narrative-grade Constellations < Universe (So broken) < Outer Gods (Reason why they are below Myth-grade here) = < Myth-grade Constellations < Strongest Outer Gods (Those comparable to Nameless Mist) = Apocalypse Dragon (Can one-shot almost anything in the Star Stream) < Outer God Kings (Secretive Plotter, heavenly weakened, was still considered the most powerful constellation but he got haxed badly by the Living Flame) < Dokkaebi King < Secretive Plotter

Even for Narrative-grade constellations, there are many levels, such as the sun being superior to some constellations, the hierarchy with the sun gods, etc. and Michael above. Objects even have places in this thing.

Regarding Oldest Dream, I don't think it's a layering issue because the concept of status doesn't apply to him; it's more of a form of Resistance Negation that he possesses.

I think it's better to put this on the OP.

 

[Theglassman12]

Then the layers look fine to me

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

if that's fine, we would like to add the layers explanation to this existing page
and specify layers on Kim Dokja's profile (1st key - 8 layers, as nameless constellation should be just low historical grade;2nd key - 12 layers as narrative grade;3rd key - 15 layers as myth grade;4th key - 18 layers as even post-losing OD authority he is on level of Dokkaebi King, Fourth wall and final wall tabs - 19 layers as they negate dokkaebi king)

 

[Orioreeem]

I wanted to ask why is there a key for final wall stuff when final wall is a place? Characters don't have those abilities unless they are using a final wall.

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

I wanted to ask why is there a key for final wall stuff when final wall is a place? Characters don't have those abilities unless they are using a final wall.

because, as oldest dream, kim dokja has authority over final wall and uses it as equipment

 

[Orioreeem]

I mean it's a place and not equipment like they have to be there to use it

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

I mean it's a place and not equipment like they have to be there to use it

not really - Dokja exists beyond final wall, he doesnt touch or come into physical contact with it, but uses it anyway by virtue of being 'copyright holder' of it

 

[Orioreeem]

not really - Dokja exists beyond final wall, he doesnt touch or come into physical contact with it, but uses it anyway by virtue of being 'copyright holder' of it

That's the oldest dream key. I am talking about one before that

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

That's the oldest dream key. I am talking about one before that

that's the key we mean by 'oldest dream'(dokja from chapters 516 - 540). oldest dream is for the authority of oldest dream/'true form' of oldest dream

 

[Orioreeem]

that's the key we mean by 'oldest dream'(dokja from chapters 516 - 540). oldest dream is for the authority of oldest dream/'true form' of oldest dream

I am talking about 1-A via Final Wall key. Why do we have that key when Dokja has to be there in the final wall to use it?

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

I am talking about 1-A via Final Wall key. Why do we have that key when Dokja has to be there in the final wall to use it?

but he doesn't need to be inside it to use it?

 

[Orioreeem]

but he doesn't need to be inside it to use it?

It's a place, final wall has to be there for him to use it. Or is there a scan that says he can use final wall wherever it is or scan that shows that he used a final wall without final wall being there?

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

It's a place, final wall has to be there for him to use it. Or is there a scan that says he can use final wall wherever it is or scan that shows that he used a final wall without final wall being there?

well he lives outside final wall, roaming in his train beyond the dream and can use final wall from his subway for example in 0th turn which he watched mentally and used final wall's overwrite

 

[Orioreeem]

well he lives outside final wall, roaming in his train beyond the dream and can use final wall from his subway for example in 0th turn which he watched mentally and used final wall's overwrite

I guess that's fine then

 

[Orioreeem]

But now that key doesn't make much sense? Like why is 1-C there in "varies 1-C up to 1-A"? He already ascended in his key. Does alternate between his myth grade state and beyond the dream state refer to his 49% and 51% self?

 

[Digital_Franz]

I wanted to ask why is there a key for final wall stuff when final wall is a place? Characters don't have those abilities unless they are using a final wall.

Although your question has been answered, the next time you have a question unrelated to the topic you should ask it in the discussion thread.