Brief Question About Abstract Existence...

[Arency]

Does a character with Abstract Existence are resistant to all abilities as long as they can't be interacted with?

If no, what abilities can directly affect Abstract beings?

 

[Frey_Starlight]

verse dependent, if in the story its said that you can delete (EE) abstract concepts and abstract entities, then as stated they gets bonked off. then there is NPI

 

[Arency]

verse dependent, if in the story its said that you can delete (EE) abstract concepts and abstract entities, then as stated they gets bonked off. then there is NPI

Thanks for the answer, but I was actually referring to a normal case where, as I said, you can't interact with.

Also what if those Abstract Entities are resistant to EE? (Technically kinda referring to the main question)

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

It depends on what kind of abstraction the character represents. If the character is abstract because he is a Type 1 concept for example, people who have conceptual manipulation/destruction (Type 1) would be able to interact with it, even if they have never fought AE beings before. Otherwise, yeah, nothing would work.

 

[Arency]

It depends on what kind of abstraction the character represents. If the character is abstract because he is a Type 1 concept for example, people who have conceptual manipulation/destruction (Type 1) would be able to interact with it, even if they have never fought AE beings before. Otherwise, yeah, nothing would work.

Alright. Also since we are, if a character with AE type 1 represents like 5 things, does it require those 5 NPI to interact with him or one is enough?

 

[Arency]

Bump

 

[AlexSamDen]

Alright. Also since we are, if a character with AE type 1 represents like 5 things, does it require those 5 NPI to interact with him or one is enough?

If it's 5 completely different AE, like CM1, IM2, LM and smth else, then yes, NPI is needed for all of these

 

[Arency]

If it's 5 completely different AE, like CM1, IM2, LM and smth else, then yes, NPI is needed for all of these

Alright. Also adding something to my first question, but since a character can't be affected by any abilities as long as they cannot be interacted with, does it also ignore smurf haxs and cosmology nuke?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Alright. Also adding something to my first question, but since a character can't be affected by any abilities as long as they cannot be interacted with, does it also ignore smurf haxs and cosmology nuke?

Not sure about smurf hax, however cosmology nuke usually does work, as this would mean the destruction of the very concepts, laws, etc that the AE works on, but it should be noted that a verse can make it so the nuke does not affect the character, so it should be reviewed case by case

 

[Arency]

Not sure about smurf hax, however cosmology nuke usually does work, as this would mean the destruction of the very concepts, laws, etc that the AE works on, but it should be noted that a verse can make it so the nuke does not affect the character, so it should be reviewed case by case

What about type 1 concept? According to CM page, they are uneffected by the destruction of the object they govern.

 

[AlexSamDen]

What about type 1 concept? According to CM page, they are uneffected by the destruction of the object they govern.

Yeah, but I thought you meant a global nuke with concept destruction. If without it, then no

 

[Arency]

Yeah, but I thought you meant a global nuke with concept destruction. If without it, then no

But wouldn't a global nuke require NPI to everything, like laws or any concept existing within the verse without being automatically an conceptual ability? For example laws existing in likely all verses but some doesn't it as an overall conceptual thing (it's the basic case, just like it normally exists, nothing more), shouldn't it require for the cosmology nuker NPI to it?

 

[AlexSamDen]

But wouldn't a global nuke require NPI to everything, like laws or any concept existing within the verse without being automatically an conceptual ability? For example laws existing in likely all verses but some doesn't it as an overall conceptual thing (it's the basic case, just like it normally exists, nothing more), shouldn't it require for the cosmology nuker NPI to it?

I think only CM1 survives higher-dimensional nuke, as like you mentioned, all other things reside within that verse and would disappear without the foundation. However, in some very specific verses other things can also survive, an example of this would be Tensura verse with these existing separate from the main reality. And for a nuke that includes CM1 without having NPI would require 1A if I'm not mistaken

 

[Arency]

I think only CM1 survives higher-dimensional nuke, as like you mentioned, all other things reside within that verse and would disappear without the foundation.

That's seem doubtful fr

So now what about someone representing like soul or plot? As long as it doesn't rely on conceptual overall (referring to type 1 obv), it doesn't needs NPI and basically would nuke it, erasing everything?

 

[AlexSamDen]

That's seem doubtful fr

Because there are so many things to consider that I would just prefer to say "review on case by case basis", but here I am, trying to make a general assumption

So now what about someone representing like soul or plot? As long as it doesn't rely on conceptual overall (referring to type 1 obv), it doesn't needs NPI and basically would nuke it, erasing everything?

Souls are like the most verse-dependent thing, there are too much differences between the verses, some tie souls to the world, some don't, and some tie it in a very comlex way or even make it nonexistent. Plot, on the other side, would usually survive the nuke as this is again, a thing that works perfectly fine against everyone unless you try to go against 1A. But again, some rare cases do place plot inside.

I'm actually interested, why do you bring this up, as far as I'm conserned, cosmology nuke isn't usually an option in VS

 

[Arency]

Because there are so many things to consider that I would just prefer to say "review on case by case basis", but here I am, trying to make a general assumption

(Warning of the incoming holy yap, and sorry in advance if there's some repetition but I'm typing on a small phone and don't usually see the mistake I'm doing...)

Yeah, In my opinion it's always better to use the basic case as it's likely implied in some verses.

Souls are like the most verse-dependent thing, there are too much differences between the verses, some tie souls to the world, some don't, and some tie it in a very comlex way or even make it nonexistent. Plot, on the other side, would usually survive the nuke as this is again, a thing that works perfectly fine against everyone unless you try to go against 1A. But again, some rare cases do place plot inside.

Yeah I see it, but does it mean (from a normal case) that nonexistant beings resists the nuke asw? (The nuker don't have NPI at all btw) Since those exemples doesn't really differentiates what would be affected by it or not as :

• Tie to the world (even in a complex way) would still be affected as long as there’s is, well, no world left.
• If not the case, mean reliant to nothing at all, so resists to the nuke possibly?
• Regarding nonexistant, I don't really know if non NPI nukers can affecte it if they are reliant to something or nothing (You don't really have to answer this question as I'm kinda seeing it would go infinitly more complex, iffy, depending on some factors ect...)

Can you explain at why AE cannot be affected by all haxs (+ smurf), and some to cosmology nuke (as long as they can't be interacted) ? As it seems to be a special case no linked to usually normal incorporeal/intangible users, unless it's the case...

I'm actually interested, why do you bring this up, as far as I'm conserned, cosmology nuke isn't usually an option in VS

I don't really remember which ones, but pretty sure some VS matchups used cosmology nuke and it's by this way that I was wondering the limit of this ability. But technically if the nuker have NPI to incorporeality, does the nuke would work on incorporeal users? Same question without NPI. (I wouldn't go further into this question then, unless....)

 

[AlexSamDen]

• Tie to the world (even in a complex way) would still be affected as long as there’s is, well, no world left.

By "complex way" I meant situations when a part their existence is tied to the world and therefore the character is affected by its destruction, however, while it can debuff the character, it doesn't mean an auto-win

• If not the case, mean reliant to nothing at all, so resists to the nuke possibly?

Pretty much yes, just like BDE characters are not affected by a regular dimensional manipulation

• Regarding nonexistant, I don't really know if non NPI nukers can affecte it if they are reliant to something or nothing (You don't really have to answer this question as I'm kinda seeing it would go infinitly more complex, iffy, depending on some factors ect...)

NEP1 and 2 shouldn't be affected, however NEP3 can possibly be affected due to its paradoxial nature in regards to existence, but yeah very context-dependent. Though, it should be noted that a character can have only some parts of his nature nonexistent and, for example, a character with a NEP soul, but not body and without low-godly regen (or a similar thing, like being able to act as a pure soul) would still die, because they can't 'exist' without their body

Can you explain at why AE cannot be affected by all haxs (+ smurf), and some to cosmology nuke (as long as they can't be interacted) ? As it seems to be a special case no linked to usually normal incorporeal/intangible users, unless it's the case...

IIRC, things like Plot Manip, Madness manip type 3, some kinds of Fear manip, Fate manip and Law manip still work as they don't directly interact with target's existence, but yeah I will explain. It actually is similar to Intangibility, like no matter how physically strong you are, it doesn't suddenly make you able to hold fire, for example. However in case of AE, instead of just being non-holdable, AE is being a metaphysical concept. And as a similar thing, why would we assume that CM1 can affect IM2? Sure these are two fundamental parts of reality, but it's exactly it, they are two and not one exactly because they don't interfere with eachother's function and as such cannot interact with eachother

I don't really remember which ones, but pretty sure some VS matchups used cosmology nuke and it's by this way that I was wondering the limit of this ability. But technically if the nuker have NPI to incorporeality, does the nuke would work on incorporeal users? Same question without NPI. (I wouldn't go further into this question then, unless....)

Quite simple to answer it now: just look at what we discussed with AE, as in this case its even simpler: 1) the character depends on the world, 2) he doesn't. That's all and you can now answer the question yourself. And with NPI, why would you even want to nuke the cosmo, if you can nuke the character?


(Don't worry, I'm also on phone)

 

[Arency]

IIRC, things like Plot Manip, Madness manip type 3, some kinds of Fear manip, Fate manip and Law manip still work as they don't directly interact with target's existence...

I mean, so why @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless specifically stated that nothing would works as long as you can't interact with, unless you have required NPIs (he probably misunderstanding my question but who knows...)

It depends on what kind of abstraction the character represents. If the character is abstract because he is a Type 1 concept for example, people who have conceptual manipulation/destruction (Type 1) would be able to interact with it, even if they have never fought AE beings before. Otherwise, yeah, nothing would work.

Also wouldn't Transduality works as well? (At least this ability)

And with NPI, why would you even want to nuke the cosmo, if you can nuke the character?

Why not, targetting multiple peoples at once if needed isn't bad as well as erasing the soul concept for good.

 

[AlexSamDen]

I mean, so why @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless specifically stated that nothing would works as long as you can't interact with, unless you have required NPIs (he probably misunderstanding my question but who knows...)

Well, because if you try to directly interact with the character, then yes, nothing would work, but the hax I mentioned don't directly affect the character in front of them, but rather something else that leads to the character being affected. Usually things like fate and plot are abstractions themselves and the character's own AE has no effect on them, unless stated in-verse

Also wouldn't Transduality works as well? (At least this ability)

Transduality is a defensive hax, not offensive

Why not, targetting multiple peoples at once if needed isn't bad as well as erasing the soul concept for good.

I was talking about a different thing. If you already can affect the character as a whole, why bother with overextending yourself on the cosmology? (Unless something like immo type 8 is in game)

 

[Arency]

I was talking about a different thing. If you already can affect the character as a whole, why bother with overextending yourself on the cosmology? (Unless something like immo type 8 is in game)

I think I usually involved cosmology nuke as first question of if it require NPI to affect them through it, but anyways thank for the answer