Murder Mystery 2: Standard Equipment Issue

[Comiphorous]

I was asked to make this, so i did.

The Murderer (Murder Mystery 2)

Eliminate EVERYONE. Don't get shot by the sheriff.The games description for the Murderer role The Murderer is the name/role given to the player in the Roblox game Murder Mystery 2. The main objective for the murderer is to kill everyone preferably without being seen and avoiding/killing the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Currently the profile lists all the perks as standard equipment, with threads seemingly treating them as something that are all active and can be used at the same time. this is simply wrong by all MM2 standards. players need to grind for these perks in game to purchase them, and the murderer can only have one of these perks equipped at a time.

It should be changed to optional equipment, and the profile should list it as a weakness that the murderer can only have one of these powers on at one time. Should be simple.

Agree: FinePoint (wishes to seperate some perks into standard and some into optional)

Disagree:

 

[Arkansalter2]

Mm-mm. Disagree. Game Mechanics restrict The Murderer to one perk. Use Game Mechanics as an argument is considered fallacious.
This is very much similar to John EBG who can only equip 5 spells, however, that too is treated as game mechanics.

 

[Comiphorous]

Mm-mm. Disagree. Game Mechanics restrict The Murderer to one perk. Use Game Mechanics as an argument is considered fallacious.
This is very much similar to John EBG who can only equip 5 spells, however, that too is treated as game mechanics.

Is there anything in Murder Mystery 2 which states or shows they can use several at the same time? Having to choose between a select amount of powers usually isn't a game mechanic unless it's shown otherwise.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Is there anything in Murder Mystery 2 which states or shows they can use several at the same time?

They placed said rule in game because the devs didn't want them to use all perks at once.

Theoretically, since Murder would have all perks in inventory by default, he would be able to freely switch in between said perks in game.
Murderer would still be able to switch in between said perks in versus matches regardless. He just won't be able to use said perks all at once such as Sprint + Haste or Xray + Sprint and etc.
At the end of the day, this is basically game mechanics.

 

[Comiphorous]

Theoretically, since Murder would have all perks in inventory by default, he would be able to freely switch in between said perks in game.
Murderer would still be able to switch in between said perks in versus matches regardless. He just won't be able to use said perks all at once such as Sprint + Haste or Xray + Sprint and etc.
At the end of the day, this is basically game mechanics.

Can the player in game change their perks mid-match and have it change on command like that? if not, that's a baseless claim of game mechanics.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Can the player in game change their perks mid-match and have it change on command like that? if not, that's a baseless claim.

They are able to switch their perks but it likely wouldn't be able to take effect until next match.

This entire CRT is just a Game Mechanics cryfold.

 

[Comiphorous]

They are able to switch their perks but it likely wouldn't be able to take effect until next match.

This entire CRT is just a Game Mechanics cryfold.

There is no game mechanics in play here then. You are making baseless assumptions that they would have this equipment on them despite the source material completely going against what you are saying. Nothing in game even indicates they outside of gameplay would have all those powers normally.

 

[Arkansalter2]

There is no game mechanics in play here then. You are making baseless assumptions that they would have this equipment on them despite the source material completely going against what you are saying. Nothing in game even indicates they outside of game would have all those powers normally.

"Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game [with this being the developers] (examples include hit points, levels, statistics, world map crossing in seconds outside of cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character's or entity's actual abilities."
Again, the developers placed that restriction there because the developer wouldn't want the player cycling and spamming all of their perks at one time.

Again, this is very similar to John EBG. In game, he can only equip 5 spells at one time, but that is game mechanics because he would have access to his elements anyways.
As for murderer, he would only be able to have 1 perk at one time. That's game mechanics because, again, he would have access to his perks anyways.
Matches would be pretty hard to find if this was accepted anyways if player could only have one perk because of this game mechanics CRT.
This is not baseless, it's game mechanics.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Yeah this entire CRT looks like it’s just game mechanics

 

[Arkenis]

I vaguely remember the wiki rejecting game mechanics for feats, was this just not applied for all game mechanics?

 

[Comiphorous]

"Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game [with this being the developers] (examples include hit points, levels, statistics, world map crossing in seconds outside of cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character's or entity's actual abilities."
Again, the developers placed that restriction there because the developer wouldn't want the player cycling and spamming all of their perks at one time.

Alright, but is there any proof that the in game showings is a game mechanic and not just a limitation on the character? Because so far you've given me a headcanon, which isn't great proof.

 

[FinePoint]

If they're only ever shown to have one at a time, I think it makes complete sense to list it as optional equipment instead of standard equipment.

Everyone claiming game mechanics is making assumptions about the author's intentions which they have no way of knowing.

Unless it's contradicted in some lore elsewhere, I think it's fine.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Alright, but is there any proof that the in game showings is a game mechanic and not just a limitation on the character? Because so far you've given me a headcanon, which isn't great proof.

The other part of the argument which you haven't addressed.

 

[Arkansalter2]

I vaguely remember the wiki rejecting game mechanics for feats, was this just not applied for all game mechanics?

I'm... not sure what you mean by this??

 

[Arkansalter2]

Oh and btw, perks were never standard equipment in the first place sooo..

 

[Comiphorous]

Oh and btw, perks were never standard equipment in the first place sooo..

You yourself claimed they had all the perks by default.

 

[Arkenis]

I'm... not sure what you mean by this??

I vaguely remember us not being able to calculate feats in gameplay due to game mechanics as in an actual player dodging some attack with their character can't be used as a speed feat because it's game mechanics. I thought this would be applied in general as in game mechanics would restrict the way we make profiles no matter the game mechanic.

 

[FinePoint]

Oh and btw, perks were never standard equipment in the first place sooo..

Well, I had assumed they were all items of some kind, but looking at it again, it looks like only some of them are?

The perks which are implied to be items (like xray and trap) should probably be optional equipment.

The passive stuff probably does have to be assumed to all be active.

 

[Arkenis]

Oh and btw, perks were never standard equipment in the first place sooo..

So then he's not using any perk in the Dexter Morgan match?

uhh serial killer vs roblox serial killer...

RULES

• Both are 9-C
• Dexter has all standard equipment
• Speed is equalized
• Takes place in New York streets
• 40 Meters away
• No line of sight
• Dexter is aware of The Murderer's perks beforehand and The Murderer is aware he's being tracked & aware of Dexter's Dark Passenger beforehand too
• The Murderer is duel wielding knives (just because it looks cool)

 

[Arkansalter2]

I vaguely remember us not being able to calculate feats in gameplay due to game mechanics as in an actual player dodging some attack with their character can't be used as a speed feat because it's game mechanics. I thought this would be applied in general as in game mechanics would restrict the way we make profiles no matter the game mechanic.

I'm highly sure most game characters wouldn't even exist or their speed feats would be mostly guess work if that was the case.

xray

This is a no. In game, no such device is present when the perk is activated. I can accept trap being optional equipment since it's a mid ahh perk anyway. Everything else, no.

So then he's not using any perk in the Dexter Morgan match?

They're abilities. We don't treat "abilities" as standard equipment, correct?

 

[FinePoint]

This is a no. In game, no such device is present when the perk is activated.

That's just game mechanics.

 

[Comiphorous]

This is a no. In game, no such device is present when the perk is activated. I can accept trap being optional equipment since it's a mid ahh perk anyway. Everything else, no.

But the icon seems to imply they're using equipment for it. If the icons showing off what the power does is so unreliable why should the in game showing be any more reliable.

 

[Comiphorous]

If it were up to me, i'd make the following perks standard abilities;

Sprint, Footsteps, Ninja (Iffy on ninja rlly but eh)

The rest should be optional equipment perks that the OP should one of.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Sprint, Footsteps, Ninja

Sprint, Footsteps, Ninja, Sleight, and Haste.
I guess everything else can be optional equipment.

 

[Comiphorous]

Sprint, Footsteps, Ninja, Sleight, and Haste.
I guess everything else can be optional equipment.

Yeah no on the Sleight and Haste that makes no sense. Those perks directly upgrade and change what is normally capable of the Murderer.

Sprint can be assumed as standard since we can assume the murderer can run, Footsteps is a default ability for all Murderers therefore should be standard, and Ninja because murdering silently is kinda just a skill feat(?)

The rest are perks which change what is physically possible for The Murderer otherwise.

 

[Arkenis]

I'm highly sure most game characters wouldn't even exist or their speed feats would be mostly guess work if that was the case.

There's statements and cutscenes.

They're abilities. We don't treat "abilities" as standard equipment, correct?

Most game characters can have an ability equipped to them. That definitionally disqualifies it as a standard ability. This is being extremely semantical, you understand what equipment is, you know an ability you have to put on your character isn't standard.

 

[Arkenis]

Actually a good game example is the Traveler from Genshin. Their abilities are separated in keys because they only unlock the stuff in that part of the story. We don't grant them everything right away.

 

[Arkansalter2]

There's statements and cutscenes.

Correction. Those Roblox games without cutscenes. The join and kill people type games. Pretty sure calcs like these wouldn't exist if that's the case either.

Most game characters can have an ability equipped to them. That definitionally disqualifies it as a standard ability. This is being extremely semantical, you understand what equipment is, you know an ability you have to put on your character isn't standard.

I can sorta give you that.
Then again, theres games like elemental battlegrounds and the peak of roblox fart attack who have equippable spells and abilities.

This has been left like this for as long as the page was created.
I swear this only happens to me when I'm debating.

 

[Comiphorous]

I can sorta give you that.
Then again, theres games like elemental battlegrounds and the peak of roblox fart attack who have equippable spells and abilities.

The fact fart attack has lasted on the wiki this long is actually impressive, i give you props for that. i'm surprised any staff didn't immediately nuke it when they read "roblox fart attack"

 

[Arkenis]

Correction. Those Roblox games without cutscenes. The join and kill people type games. Pretty sure calcs like these wouldn't exist if that's the case either.

Yeah Ik it exist now. I was asking when did we start allowing it, but I may have misremembered if we ever disallowed calcing game mechanic feats.

I swear this only happens to me when I'm debating.

Precisely why I try to steer away from game character matches.

 

[Arkansalter2]

I was asking when did we start allowing it

I guess I'll never know.

i'm surprised any staff didn't immediately nuke it when they read "roblox fart attack"

They tried to at one point yet I defended it out of it's death bed.

Precisely why I try to steer away from game character matches.

Had to deal with this about twice now. Once for John Combat and another one this time.

 

[AThe1412]

Agree. Kill effects should also be optional equipment as well.

The reason I believe the Murderer shouldn't have more than one perk is because there's meant to be not one but multiple killers in the game who each have their own different skillsets. If it's always the same exact person who's the Murderer then the game wouldn't be called "Murder Mystery 2" now, would it?

Calling EBG Player's case game mechanics makes sense because you can switch out which spells to use in your moveset of only 5 spells mid-fight which would allow you to use every spell and element. Deciding which spell to use isn't restricted to some kind of "lobby" where you respawn in.

Stalker (Roblox)

The Stalker is the eponymous playable antagonist of The Stalker series. As one of its many efforts to attain Galactic Unity, The Combine Empire has involved itself in many secret projects. Unfortunately, one of them failed. The result of an "experiment that went horrendously wrong" has created...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's another case of ability restriction. While the Stalker can only equip up to 3 powers in gameplay, this doesn't make sense lorewise as everything in the game indicates that there's only one Stalker canonically and he has access to all of the abilities you can obtain.

As you can see, the MM2 Murderer doesn't fall under either of these cases hence I agree with the OP's proposal.

If it were up to me, i'd make the following perks standard abilities;

Sprint, Footsteps, Ninja (Iffy on ninja rlly but eh)

The rest should be optional equipment perks that the OP should one of.

Only one that should be standard equipment is Footsteps because it's the default one that doesn't require coins to unlock. Same with them having no kill effect because it's default.

 

[Arkansalter2]

RIP gonna have to find some 10-A fodders now.

 

[Comiphorous]

Only one that should be standard equipment is Footsteps because it's the default one that doesn't require coins to unlock. Same with them having no kill effect because it's default.

I know nothing about kill effects what is that, what do they do, and are they unlockables or something? Haven't touched MM2 since like 2014 when it first came out im a old lad i don't remember any of this stuff lol.

The rest of what you said seems fine though. making them all optional seems to make sense.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Since this is a very minor revision, I think only finepoint's vote is fine.

 

[AThe1412]

I know nothing about kill effects what is that, what do they do, and are they unlockables or something? Haven't touched MM2 since like 2014 when it first came out im a old lad i don't remember any of this stuff lol.

The rest of what you said seems fine though. making them all optional seems to make sense.

Effects

Effects are additions to the knife the player can equip, and sometimes modify the skin based on the effect. Most of the effects were fixed when the March 2020 Update came out. They are not tradable. Below is a near complete list of each one.

murder-mystery-2.fandom.com

 

[AthelChan]

Since this is a very minor revision, I think only finepoint's vote is fine.

5th stage: acceptance.

 

[EmbalmerMaster9000]

The fact fart attack has lasted on the wiki this long is actually impressive, i give you props for that. i'm surprised any staff didn't immediately nuke it when they read "roblox fart attack"

John Fartattack can only "equip" five different fart abilities at a time, but you can freely switch between them mid-fight. There's no lore or anything to explain why/how, you can just switch between them at any time or why the GUI is there (in EBG the in-world GUI is a spellbook so you can kinda guess what it's supposed to be). In VS threads, It's treated like John Fartattack can use every move because theoretically if you're good enough at the game you can just open up the GUI and click what you want to swap to super quickly and use every move on the fly.


Unless the TITULAR Murderer from the hit gemmy spinechilling slow-burn kinoblox game Murder Mystery 2 has any statements to back up them having access to all abilities simultaneously, I don't think it should be assumed that they have access to all abilities at once.

 

[Comiphorous]

John Fartattack can only "equip" five different fart abilities at a time, but you can freely switch between them mid-fight. There's no lore or anything to explain why/how, you can just switch between them at any time or why the GUI is there (in EBG the in-world GUI is a spellbook so you can kinda guess what it's supposed to be). In VS threads, It's treated like John Fartattack can use every move because theoretically if you're good enough at the game you can just open up the GUI and click what you want to swap to super quickly and use every move on the fly.


Unless the TITULAR Murderer from the hit gemmy spinechilling slow-burn kinoblox game Murder Mystery 2 has any statements to back up them having access to all abilities simultaneously, I don't think it should be assumed that they have access to all abilities at once.

Can we stop making Roblox Fart Attack an actual relevent character in this discussion i won't take it seriously when you guys refer to him as John Fart Attack im begging you guys.

It's concerning you guys even managed to make him relevent and that i can understand how you got to that point where he's relevent.

 

[AThe1412]

Can we stop making Roblox Fart Attack an actual relevent character in this discussion i won't take it seriously when you guys refer to him as John Fart Attack im begging you guys.

It's concerning you guys even managed to make him relevent and that i can understand how you got to that point where he's relevent.

I can't believe we're not making profiles for peak games with complex lore like Entry Point