Bleach: Some minor Yhwach additions

[Johner2133451]

Abilities

1. He should have layered powernull as he can nulify any abilities he sees in the future which includes Aizen and Gerard
2. He also should have mid godly regen negation via almighty as he can nulify any abilities that includes Aizen and Gerard (which both have mid godly regen), it also includes Shaz Domino who's entire ability/shrift focused on mid godly regen
3. Yhwach's conceptual absorption should be type 2 as he absorb names which is the same type of concept as Ichibe's (which has type 2)
4. Yhwach's death manip via auswalen should be layered as it can kill Gerard who has resists to death manip
5. His precognition should be layered in his soul king absorbed key as he can rewrite his own future despite he himself resists precognition by absorbing mimihagi
6. Possibly layered sleep manipulation and reactive evolution negation in his soul king absorbed key as he was able to knockout Aizen from the fight (despite Aizen still having the hogyoku that has godly regen and adaptation)

Resistances

1. He should have resists to social influencing as Aizen can't simply manipulate Yhwach to stop his plans, even rejected Yhwach's offering to work together

 

[Johner2133451]

bump

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

You should put tags

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

1. He should have layered powernull as he can nulify any abilities he sees in the future which includes Aizen and Gerard

Disagree

2. He also should have mid godly regen negation via almighty as he can nulify any abilities that includes Aizen and Gerard (which both have mid godly regen), it also includes Shaz Domino who's entire ability/shrift focused on mid godly regen

Can he actually nullify someone else regeneration ?

3. Yhwach's conceptual absorption should be type 2 as he absorb names which is the same type of concept as Ichibe's (which has type 2)

No, names are type 3 while Ichibe control over darkness is type 2.

1. He should have resists to social influencing as Aizen can't simply manipulate Yhwach to stop his plans, even rejected Yhwach's offering to work together

Is resistance to SI a thing ?

 

[Johner2133451]

Disagree, that's like giving someone powernull for dodging hax

Can he actually nullify someone else regeneration ?

No, names are type 3 while Ichibe control over black is type 2.


Is resistance to SI a thing ?

Huh? A character powernulling another literally gives him layer since said another resists powernull before

Yes with Auschwalen

Ichibei manipulated Yhwach's name count as type 2

Yes

 

[Johner2133451]

bro
this is not minor

Not really controversial like tier 1 upscale

 

[Ignatheus]

Why do these characters even have Death Manipulation to begin with? That needs a CRT or something because poison isn't death manipulation. (Referring to Hollows). Is there a thread i missed?
Like that Death manip feat from Gerard wouldn't prove he could survive half of the actual death manip powers out there.

 

[Johner2133451]

Why do these characters even have Death Manipulation to begin with? That needs a CRT or something because poison isn't death manipulation. (Referring to Hollows). Is there a thread i missed?
Like that Death manip feat from Gerard wouldn't prove he could survive half of the actual death manip powers out there.

If you wanna remove hollow death manip, just do it in a separate thread

 

[Johner2133451]

Is resistance to SI a thing ?

Also here an example of a character resisting social influence

Kamen Rider Zero-One (End of Series)

Aruto Hiden (飛電或人 Hiden Aruto) resigned as CEO of Hiden Intelligence after losing the Workplace Competition to rival company ZAIA Enterprise Japan. Aruto would then develop a new company called HIDEN Manufacturing in the hopes restoring the prosperity of the Humagears. While developing Hiden...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Johner2133451]

I just found out someone even has layered resistance to social influencing lol

Lupin III (Character)

Lupin III (ルパン三世, Rupan Sansei) is the grandson of Arsène Lupin, and is the world's most wanted gentleman thief. He sometimes appears incompetent, but mostly as a charade to catch his opponents off guard. While he has been arrested and thrown in jail on a number of occasions, he has always...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Social Influencing (1 Layer - It's rare that Lupin is deceived by someone due to his ability to read people's expressions and detect lies, even as a child he was resistant to Tomoe's influence which was capable of completely rewriting a person's personality and life with a short conversation)

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

1. He should have layered powernull as he can nulify any abilities he sees in the future which includes Aizen and Gerard

That’s actually quite a leap in interpretation. He isn’t nullifying abilities through some direct power-negation mechanism, but rather by altering the course of events — he reshapes the future so that such an ability is never used against him in the first place.

2. He also should have mid godly regen negation via almighty as he can nulify any abilities that includes Aizen and Gerard (which both have mid godly regen), it also includes Shaz Domino who's entire ability/shrift focused on mid godly regen

As I mentioned earlier + You need to provide concrete proof that they are no longer regenerating — and that this, in some way, is due to something Yhwach did.
This hasn't been demonstrated with clear evidence — what I’ve seen are merely assumptions.

3. Yhwach's conceptual absorption should be type 2 as he absorb names which is the same type of concept as Ichibe's (which has type 2)

It seems you’re a bit confused. Names in Bleach are Type 3 concepts, however, Ichibē’s control over darkness involves aspects of Type 2.

4. Yhwach's death manip via auswalen should be layered as it can kill Gerard who has resists to death manip

And regarding this, it’s actually just a poisonous corruption that causes death only in those who lack the proper antibodies. In other words, it’s not the manipulation of death, but rather a toxic agent with lethal effects.

5. His precognition should be layered in his soul king absorbed key as he can rewrite his own future despite he himself resists precognition by absorbing mimihagi

Neutral in this case. I'll wait for more arguments before taking a position.

6. Possibly layered sleep manipulation and reactive evolution negation in his soul king absorbed key as he was able to knockout Aizen from the fight (despite Aizen still having the hogyoku that has godly regen and adaptation)

I’m fairly certain you know that knocking someone out doesn’t grant you sleep manipulation. On top of that, you still need to prove that Yhwach is actually negating Aizen’s reactive evolution — and you haven’t done that at all.

1. He should have resists to social influencing as Aizen can't simply manipulate Yhwach to stop his plans, even rejected Yhwach's offering to work together

You have yet to demonstrate that Aizen actually attempted to manipulate him and simply failed. What’s being used as a foundation so far is nothing more than baseless conjecture.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Huh? A character powernulling another literally gives him layer since said another resists powernull before

But he is not nullfying anything just changing the future, right ?

Ichibei manipulated Yhwach's name count as type 2

That's taking it out of context. Ichibe governance over Darkness(racist mofo) is type 2, but the stuff under his domain like names are not type 2 by default. In Bleach case names are personal that govern individuals.

That's equating the subject(name) with the concept(Darkness) that govern it.

 

[Johner2133451]

That’s actually quite a leap in interpretation. He isn’t nullifying abilities through some direct power-negation mechanism, but rather by altering the course of events — he reshapes the future so that such an ability is never used against him in the first place.

As I mentioned earlier + You need to provide concrete proof that they are no longer regenerating — and that this, in some way, is due to something Yhwach did.
This hasn't been demonstrated with clear evidence — what I’ve seen are merely assumptions.

It seems you’re a bit confused. Names in Bleach are Type 3 concepts, however, Ichibē’s control over darkness involves aspects of Type 2.

And regarding this, it’s actually just a poisonous corruption that causes death only in those who lack the proper antibodies. In other words, it’s not the manipulation of death, but rather a toxic agent with lethal effects.

Neutral in this case. I'll wait for more arguments before taking a position.

I’m fairly certain you know that knocking someone out doesn’t grant you sleep manipulation. On top of that, you still need to prove that Yhwach is actually negating Aizen’s reactive evolution — and you haven’t done that at all.

You have yet to demonstrate that Aizen actually attempted to manipulate him and simply failed. What’s being used as a foundation so far is nothing more than baseless conjecture.

No he doesn't, Yhwach directly says any abilitiy he sees. Otherwise, powernull wouldn't be listed

Wdym by no longer regenerating?

Yhwach has conceptual type 2 for restoring his name

So you are saying Aizen getting knockout is not something he can adapt to?

Aizen all has that manipulation/deception skills but not smart enough to use it on Yhwach?

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

No he doesn't, Yhwach directly says any abilitiy he sees. Otherwise, powernull wouldn't be listed

Okay, it looks like this will also need to be revised. I didn't even know this was listed in your abilities sections.

Wdym by no longer regenerating?

So, earlier you mentioned the following: He should also have Mid-Godly Regeneration Negation via The Almighty, since he can nullify any ability.

First of all, as I've already pointed out, Yhwach’s power nullification shouldn't be viewed as conventional — it works through altering future possibilities instead.

Second, you need to provide actual evidence that targets are being actively prevented from regenerating — that they’re no longer able to regenerate because of The Almighty. You can’t just assign Mid-Godly Regeneration Negation to him based solely on the claim that everything he sees in the future becomes a failure before him. That’s a clear extrapolation of a statement. For something like this, you need concrete proof, not just a correlational assumption.

And third — simply having power nullification doesn’t automatically grant you regeneration negation. As far as I know, the wiki treats those as two distinct categories, even if their effects might overlap in practice. So for anything like this, you need to specifically prove that his power null is also effectively applicable against characters with regenerative abilities.

That’s what I meant.

Yhwach has conceptual type 2 for restoring his name

Maybe it's because his profile hasn't been updated yet. Read the thread that contributed to it.

So you are saying Aizen getting knockout is not something he can adapt to?

No. I'm not assuming anything.

Aizen all has that manipulation/deception skills but not smart enough to use it on Yhwach?

Well, given the situation, the only thing we should assume from this is that it's something he chose not to do himself. We can't just presume that he wouldn't be able to do it when we don't have concrete evidence of his inability.

That would, indeed, be an extrapolated assumption.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I disagree with this CRT for reasons above.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Lionel Messi retired from football to cook on vsbw

 

[Johner2133451]

Okay, it looks like this will also need to be revised. I didn't even know this was listed in your abilities sections.

So, earlier you mentioned the following: He should also have Mid-Godly Regeneration Negation via The Almighty, since he can nullify any ability.

First of all, as I've already pointed out, Yhwach’s power nullification shouldn't be viewed as conventional — it works through altering future possibilities instead.

Second, you need to provide actual evidence that targets are being actively prevented from regenerating — that they’re no longer able to regenerate because of The Almighty. You can’t just assign Mid-Godly Regeneration Negation to him based solely on the claim that everything he sees in the future becomes a failure before him. That’s a clear extrapolation of a statement. For something like this, you need concrete proof, not just a correlational assumption.

And third — simply having power nullification doesn’t automatically grant you regeneration negation. As far as I know, the wiki treats those as two distinct categories, even if their effects might overlap in practice. So for anything like this, you need to specifically prove that his power null is also effectively applicable against characters with regenerative abilities.

That’s what I meant.

Maybe it's because his profile hasn't been updated yet. Read the thread that contributed to it.

No. I'm not assuming anything.

Well, given the situation, the only thing we should assume from this is that it's something he chose not to do himself. We can't just presume that he wouldn't be able to do it when we don't have concrete evidence of his inability.

That would, indeed, be an extrapolated assumption.

You would need a CRT to remove Yhwach's powernull as it done directly by looking into the future, not altering

It's not really an assumption since it what he himself directly states. Doesn't really make sense that he cannot nulify his own subordinates

It's up to date as a replacement feat was given

Then how would you tackle this

Aizen chose not to manipulate Yhwach because clearly it wont work. I doubt a supergenius would randomly decides not to use his manipulation tactic by working together with Yhwach

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

You would need a CRT to remove Yhwach's powernull as it done directly by looking into the future, not altering

I understand, and I'm aware of that — However, I'm just providing some context for your point here. It's important to remember that the act of "changing the future" doesn't actually happen in the present. And more than that, it's not even a physical action.

Yhwach changes the future based on the alternate possibilities that already exist within the verse. It doesn't make sense to expect the series to literally show him altering the future step by step, as if he's physically modifying it. That’s simply not how his power works. These changes occur within other potential branches of reality — not through something he manually enforces.

What he truly does is identify a future that benefits him, and then bring that possibility into the present — this is not a physical action. So, when you see him looking into the future, understand that he's already searching for a favorable outcome among many possible timelines — and making that version unfold in the now.

It's not really an assumption since it what he himself directly states. Doesn't really make sense that he cannot nulify his own subordinates

What’s not making sense is the way you're framing your claim about this. You haven’t even proven that he can do this to stop someone from regenerating in the first place.

Look, I understand that with The Almighty, Yhwach can do a vast number of things — after all, he uses possibilities in his favor. However, what you can’t do is use that as a blanket argument to claim he can do something he’s never actually done or even been stated to do. For example — and this is just a hypothetical, don’t take it literally — you can’t just say he would be able to erase someone from existence by finding a future possibility where that person ceases to exist, when there’s not even a single mention on this.

Keep in mind that when we attribute abilities to a character, we generally need a more concrete basis than just what is theoretically possible given their powers.

And as I’ve already mentioned — though it seems like you simply ignored it — just having power nullification doesn’t automatically grant you the ability to negate regeneration. That’s not how these abilities are treated in the wiki. You’d still need to specifically prove that his power nullification is actually effective against characters with regenerative abilities.

It's up to date as a replacement feat was given

Then I’m not sure what’s going on. What I do know is that names in Bleach aren’t Type 2 conceptual aspects — they don’t govern reality as a whole, but rather the personal reality of the individual. That’s where their classification as Type 3 comes from.

Then how would you tackle this

The way it happened, he was taken out of the fight. How exactly? I don’t know. I’m not even sure we can call it a "knockout," since we never actually saw Aizen unconscious or anything like that afterward.

What’s happening here is that you can’t just assume his adaptation is strong enough to make him immune to being knocked out — that’s yet another extrapolation.

Aizen chose not to manipulate Yhwach because clearly it wont work. I doubt a supergenius would randomly decides not to use his manipulation tactic by working together with Yhwach

Alright. Now you just need to prove your point.

 

[Adam1396]

Abilities

1. He should have layered powernull as he can nulify any abilities he sees in the future which includes Aizen and Gerard
2. He also should have mid godly regen negation via almighty as he can nulify any abilities that includes Aizen and Gerard (which both have mid godly regen), it also includes Shaz Domino who's entire ability/shrift focused on mid godly regen
3. Yhwach's conceptual absorption should be type 2 as he absorb names which is the same type of concept as Ichibe's (which has type 2)
4. Yhwach's death manip via auswalen should be layered as it can kill Gerard who has resists to death manip
5. His precognition should be layered in his soul king absorbed key as he can rewrite his own future despite he himself resists precognition by absorbing mimihagi
6. Possibly layered sleep manipulation and reactive evolution negation in his soul king absorbed key as he was able to knockout Aizen from the fight (despite Aizen still having the hogyoku that has godly regen and adaptation)

Resistances

1. He should have resists to social influencing as Aizen can't simply manipulate Yhwach to stop his plans, even rejected Yhwach's offering to work together

1. Yes. But how many layers you are arguing.

2. He has it through absorption. Sure he can bypass with almighty as well which he did against aizen.

3. Yes. It's a minor revision. You should probably create a separate thread for this.

4. Yes.

5. It's already in his profile. But I think it's better to mention that it can bypass Acausality type 4.

 

[Johner2133451]

1. Yes. But how many layers you are arguing.

2. He has it through absorption. Sure he can bypass with almighty as well which he did against aizen.

3. Yes. It's a minor revision. You should probably create a separate thread for this.

4. Yes.

5. It's already in his profile. But I think it's better to mention that it can bypass Acausality type 4.

Just one layer currently unless you have some suggestions. Also uh A4 is useless

 

[Adam1396]

I understand, and I'm aware of that — However, I'm just providing some context for your point here. It's important to remember that the act of "changing the future" doesn't actually happen in the present. And more than that, it's not even a physical action.

Yhwach changes the future based on the alternate possibilities that already exist within the verse. It doesn't make sense to expect the series to literally show him altering the future step by step, as if he's physically modifying it. That’s simply not how his power works. These changes occur within other potential branches of reality — not through something he manually enforces.

What he truly does is identify a future that benefits him, and then bring that possibility into the present — this is not a physical action. So, when you see him looking into the future, understand that he's already searching for a favorable outcome among many possible timelines — and making that version unfold in the now.

What’s not making sense is the way you're framing your claim about this. You haven’t even proven that he can do this to stop someone from regenerating in the first place.

Look, I understand that with The Almighty, Yhwach can do a vast number of things — after all, he uses possibilities in his favor. However, what you can’t do is use that as a blanket argument to claim he can do something he’s never actually done or even been stated to do. For example — and this is just a hypothetical, don’t take it literally — you can’t just say he would be able to erase someone from existence by finding a future possibility where that person ceases to exist, when there’s not even a single mention on this.

Keep in mind that when we attribute abilities to a character, we generally need a more concrete basis than just what is theoretically possible given their powers.

And as I’ve already mentioned — though it seems like you simply ignored it — just having power nullification doesn’t automatically grant you the ability to negate regeneration. That’s not how these abilities are treated in the wiki. You’d still need to specifically prove that his power nullification is actually effective against characters with regenerative abilities.

Then I’m not sure what’s going on. What I do know is that names in Bleach aren’t Type 2 conceptual aspects — they don’t govern reality as a whole, but rather the personal reality of the individual. That’s where their classification as Type 3 comes from.

The way it happened, he was taken out of the fight. How exactly? I don’t know. I’m not even sure we can call it a "knockout," since we never actually saw Aizen unconscious or anything like that afterward.

What’s happening here is that you can’t just assume his adaptation is strong enough to make him immune to being knocked out — that’s yet another extrapolation.

Alright. Now you just need to prove your point.

He can modify these existing possibilities itself. He doesn’t just pick.

Everything doesn’t need to mentioned. That's what it means to be hypothetical scenerio whether a character can possibly do that or not based on previous feats. Doesn't have to be exact same thing. You are contradicting yourself.

Try making a thread to make it type 2 first.

Aizen simply vanished. Even after yhwach was sealed, it took time for his body to reappear. And we have already seen in their fight him negating Aizen's regeneration.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

He can modify these existing possibilities itself. He doesn’t just pick.

I didn’t quite get what you meant here. Can you clarify?

Everything doesn’t need to mentioned. That's what it means to be hypothetical scenerio whether a character can possibly do that or not based on previous feats. Doesn't have to be exact same thing. You are contradicting yourself.

Did I contradict myself? I don’t see where. But let’s go over this — you said I contradicted myself, yet you didn’t actually point out where that contradiction is supposed to be. So let’s clarify:

When I said that "you can’t just say Yhwach can erase someone from existence by finding a future possibility where that person ceases to exist," that’s not a contradiction with the use of hypothetical scenarios — it’s a critique of the irresponsible and unfounded use of hypotheticals.

Possible scenarios are valid as long as they're at least based on statements (let’s even ignore actual feats for now). The problem arises when someone tries to justify anything by saying "he can do it because he has this power" without any evidence or concrete application of it.

In the case of The Almighty, yes, he manipulates possible futures — but at no point (as far as I know) was it ever shown or even suggested that he can nullify regenerative abilities this way. So using that as a basis to claim that he can, in fact, do it is pure speculation — not logical reasoning or even grounded power scaling.

In short:

• Theoretically possible ≠ justification to invent powers.
• Baseless extrapolation ≠ logical reasoning.
• Having the power to do A does not automatically imply the ability to do B — unless there’s solid evidence or clear parallels.

In that case, I really don’t understand where the contradiction is supposed to be.

Try making a thread to make it type 2 first.

But I don’t need to. It’s already been done here.

Aizen simply vanished. Even after yhwach was sealed, it took time for his body to reappear.

I'm sure you know that disappearing from a fight (for unexplained reasons) is not a valid justification for calling it a 'knockout.'

And we have already seen in their fight him negating Aizen's regeneration.

Where exactly?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Are you reading the 2023 thread you keeep posting properly? His type 2 was deemed fine with just a modification to justification needed.

His profile was also opened and and edited that exact day…

EDIT: Ichibei's conceptual manipulation is shown to have some other evidence with the concept of black being controlled, so the page should just have that be the reasoning and not the zanpakutos as the latter has no evidence for governing reality with their literal concepts.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Are you reading the 2023 thread you keeep posting properly? His type 2 was deemed fine with just a modification to justification needed.

His profile was also opened and and edited that exact day…

EDIT: Ichibei's conceptual manipulation is shown to have some other evidence with the concept of black being controlled, so the page should just have that be the reasoning and not the zanpakutos as the latter has no evidence for governing reality with their literal concepts.

That's exactly what I'm saying, right?

Ichibē Black — CM 2.
Ichibē Name — CM 3.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That's exactly what I'm saying, right?

Ichibē Black — CM 2.
Ichibē Name — CM 3.

No, only type 2 because of Ichimonji. Unless you're arguing for Yhwach specifically it would be Type 3 due to lack of Ichimonji?

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

No, only type 2 because of Ichimonji. Unless you're arguing for Yhwach specifically it would be Type 3 due to lack of Ichimonji?

But that's exactly what I'm referring to. Ichimonji's control over darkness involves aspects of Type 2, however, its name-granting ability involves aspects of Type 3.

What I don't understand is how Yhwach gained Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation resistance just by regaining his name, when names are aspects that pertain only to one's personal reality, not a universal one.

 

[Deceived3596]

1. He should have layered powernull as he can nulify any abilities he sees in the future which includes Aizen and Gerard

I disagree with this. Not for the reasoning laid out by @Anypersonburnimagines (I believe he is fundamentally incorrect in saying Yhwach is only manipulating alternative possibilities to achieve this. I believe the statement is very clear in its intention that it's the mere act of perceiving them, not manipulating them, that Yhwach is affecting their efficacy against himself)

My reasoning for disagreeing is that if we have a character with an Ontological superior Power Nullification, which Yhwach has through his ability to nullify powers like Ichibe's Ichimonji - I don't see why, if he nullifies abilities from characters without this same, Ontological strength that Ichibe has -- it must follow he is overpowering their resistance through a sheer difference in layering, and not the fact The Almighty nullifies things to a deeper, more Metaphysical degree compared to what both Aizen and Gerard possesses.

It also doesn't help that in both cases, their resistance to Power Nullification is that they can overcome having their abilities or Spiritual Energy being suppressed by processes that are distinctively different from what The Almighty does.

2. He also should have mid godly regen negation via almighty as he can nulify any abilities that includes Aizen and Gerard (which both have mid godly regen), it also includes Shaz Domino who's entire ability/shrift focused on mid godly regen

If we had additional evidence of this happening, I would be more apt to agree completely. However; I don't believe with the evidence we do have, without supposing that the statement we are given is all-encompassing to include anything that could be considered an "ability." It must be considered an ability, and something that The Almighty is without question able to nullify.

I guess I would be fine in accepting a possible rating if it was accepted by the wider majority. I believe it's definitely possible he is able to do this - It just isn't explicitly stated that he can, or explicitly shown that he does.

3. Yhwach's conceptual absorption should be type 2 as he absorb names which is the same type of concept as Ichibe's (which has type 2)

Names in Bleach aren't always Type 2 Concepts. If they're dealing with Universal Notions (like the Concept of Names itself) It would be considered a Type 2 Concept.

Yhwach specifically isn't doing this. He is instead absorbing the Soul King's title - an individual state of being - and becoming that. That would be considered a Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation feat since he is only affecting an individual, personalized Concept of the title "Reio."

4. Yhwach's death manip via auswalen should be layered as it can kill Gerard who has resists to death manip

Firstly, I believe the Hollow Corruption shouldn't even be considered as having Death Manipulation in the first place. I believe @Anypersonburnimagines perfectly explained why, so I'll just defer to his explanation.

Secondly, even if it is currently accepted as a resistance: I disagree that resistance is anyway applicable to what Auswahlen does to him. Auswahlen is forcefully taking away his life-energy and redistributing that back into Yhwach. That is not an analogous situation to what Gerard resisted with Shinji (with the "Death Manipulation" being a consequence caused by a lack of proper antibodies against Hollows. It eventually causes a spiritual entity to die as their body is eroded away, which is distinctively different from what Auswahlen does to him)

5. His precognition should be layered in his soul king absorbed key as he can rewrite his own future despite he himself resists precognition by absorbing mimihagi

Yhwach doesn't actually absorb the Mimihagi in the anime iteration, and we consider that iteration to hold more value compared to manga. So I disagree with this as well, as it's explicitly shown he didn't absorb it, and lacks the innate qualities it provides him; like the aforementioned resistance to Precognition.

6. Possibly layered sleep manipulation and reactive evolution negation in his soul king absorbed key as he was able to knockout Aizen from the fight (despite Aizen still having the hogyoku that has godly regen and adaptation)

We don't know what happens here, so drawing any conclusion is already dubious. And for the claim of Sleep Manipulation and Reactive Evolution Negation because he could've potentially knocked Aizen unconscious, I fully disagree with this. We have no reason to believe that he was knocked unconscious in the first place, as everything that occurred to him, occurred off screen. And secondly, anyone, regardless of regenerative abilities, can be knocked out. Knocking someone out only requires to deal enough damage to the brain to shut down the body, and Yhwach is absolutely capable of doing that.

Also, the assumption that he was knocked unconscious instead of absorbed by Yhwach (a process that is visually supported as happening) seems like a weird one, given the context and all.

1. He should have resists to social influencing as Aizen can't simply manipulate Yhwach to stop his plans, even rejected Yhwach's offering to work together

Yhwach not being convinced by a proposition that Aizen made is not evidence of him resisting Social Influence. Anyperson already adequately explained why, so I'll once again defer to his explanation here.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

But that's exactly what I'm referring to. Ichimonji's control over darkness involves aspects of Type 2, however, its name-granting ability involves aspects of Type 3.

What I don't understand is how Yhwach gained Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation resistance just by regaining his name, when names are aspects that pertain only to one's personal reality, not a universal one.

Because he was covered in the Ink of Ichimonj which is type 2? And proceeds to nullify it with The Almighty?

 

[Johner2133451]

I disagree with this. Not for the reasoning laid out by @Anypersonburnimagines (I believe he is fundamentally incorrect in saying Yhwach is only manipulating alternative possibilities to achieve this. I believe the statement is very clear in its intention that it's the mere act of perceiving them, not manipulating them, that Yhwach is affecting their efficacy against himself)

My reasoning for disagreeing is that if we have a character with an Ontological superior Power Nullification, which Yhwach has through his ability to nullify powers like Ichibe's Ichimonji - I don't see why, if he nullifies abilities from characters without this same, Ontological strength that Ichibe has -- it must follow he is overpowering their resistance through a sheer difference in layering, and not the fact The Almighty nullifies things to a deeper, more Metaphysical degree compared to what both Aizen and Gerard possesses.

It also doesn't help that in both cases, their resistance to Power Nullification is that they can overcome having their abilities or Spiritual Energy being suppressed by processes that are distinctively different from what The Almighty does.


If we had additional evidence of this happening, I would be more apt to agree completely. However; I don't believe with the evidence we do have, without supposing that the statement we are given is all-encompassing to include anything that could be considered an "ability." It must be considered an ability, and something that The Almighty is without question able to nullify.

I guess I would be fine in accepting a possible rating if it was accepted by the wider majority. I believe it's definitely possible he is able to do this - It just isn't explicitly stated that he can, or explicitly shown that he does.


Names in Bleach aren't always Type 2 Concepts. If they're dealing with Universal Notions (like the Concept of Names itself) It would be considered a Type 2 Concept.

Yhwach specifically isn't doing this. He is instead absorbing the Soul King's title - an individual state of being - and becoming that. That would be considered a Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation feat since he is only affecting an individual, personalized Concept of the title "Reio."


Firstly, I believe the Hollow Corruption shouldn't even be considered as having Death Manipulation in the first place. I believe @Anypersonburnimagines perfectly explained why, so I'll just defer to his explanation.

Secondly, even if it is currently accepted as a resistance: I disagree that resistance is anyway applicable to what Auswahlen does to him. Auswahlen is forcefully taking away his life-energy and redistributing that back into Yhwach. That is not an analogous situation to what Gerard resisted with Shinji (with the "Death Manipulation" being a consequence caused by a lack of proper antibodies against Hollows. It eventually causes a spiritual entity to die as their body is eroded away, which is distinctively different from what Auswahlen does to him)


Yhwach doesn't actually absorb the Mimihagi in the anime iteration, and we consider that iteration to hold more value compared to manga. So I disagree with this as well, as it's explicitly shown he didn't absorb it, and lacks the innate qualities it provides him; like the aforementioned resistance to Precognition.


We don't know what happens here, so drawing any conclusion is already dubious. And for the claim of Sleep Manipulation and Reactive Evolution Negation because he could've potentially knocked Aizen unconscious, I fully disagree with this. We have no reason to believe that he was knocked unconscious in the first place, as everything that occurred to him, occurred off screen. And secondly, anyone, regardless of regenerative abilities, can be knocked out. Knocking someone out only requires to deal enough damage to the brain to shut down the body, and Yhwach is absolutely capable of doing that.

Also, the assumption that he was knocked unconscious instead of absorbed by Yhwach (a process that is visually supported as happening) seems like a weird one, given the context and all.


Yhwach not being convinced by a proposition that Aizen made is not evidence of him resisting Social Influence. Anyperson already adequately explained why, so I'll once again defer to his explanation here.

1. So Yhwach's powernull cannot be layered because it's ontological superior? Can you explain what do you mean by that?

2. About Yhwach not absorbing Mimihagi, shouldn't there be a separate thread about removing Yhwach's abilities/resistances from Mimihagi? Currently the argument for Yhwach having layered precog technically not wrong if we dont disregard manga feats (I dont know where that rule came from)

3. What I meant is, Yhwach proposes to Aizen that Aizen should work together with him but Aizen himself rejected it. If Aizen is a supergenius with all that manipulation/deception skills, wouldn't it be a wiser decision to work together so Aizen can manipulate Yhwach? But since you mention we dont have explicit evidence that Yhwach is resistant to Aizen's social influencing, can we grant a possibly rating at least?

 

[Deceived3596]

1. So Yhwach's powernull cannot be layered because it's ontological superior? Can you explain what do you mean by that?

I believe Yhwach is affecting abilities on a more fundamental level compared to the where either Aizen or Gerard were affected by their situations. So, we have no reason to assume it's more likely that he is able to affect them because of superior layers, and not because he is utilizing an ability that is functioning on a different level.

2. About Yhwach not absorbing Mimihagi, shouldn't there be a separate thread about removing Yhwach's abilities/resistances from Mimihagi? Currently the argument for Yhwach having layered precog technically not wrong if we dont disregard manga feats (I dont know where that rule came from)

It'll eventually be removed. It just hasn't yet because people are being lazy or are preoccupied with other stuff.

3. What I meant is, Yhwach proposes to Aizen that Aizen should work together with him but Aizen himself rejected it. If Aizen is a supergenius with all that manipulation/deception skills, wouldn't it be a wiser decision to work together so Aizen can manipulate Yhwach? But since you mention we dont have explicit evidence that Yhwach is resistant to Aizen's social influencing, can we grant it a possibly rating at least?

No? If Aizen believes himself to have sole dominion over Soul Society, then allying himself with someone who is actively trying to destroy it would be completely antithetical to his beliefs, and Aizen's beliefs are incredibly important to him.

Even if you do argue it would've been a more logical choice to ally himself with Yhwach, it doesn't follow he must commit to doing that action just because he is intelligent. People have motives outside of what is or isn't more logical.

Also, no, I wouldn't give him a possibly rating for this. We don't know enough about the situation to assume he is resisting anything.

 

[Johner2133451]

I believe Yhwach is affecting abilities on a more fundamental level compared to the where either Aizen or Gerard were affected by their situations. So, we have no reason to assume it's more likely that he is able to affect them because of superior layers, and not because he is utilizing an ability that is functioning on a different level.

So do you believe Almighty's powernull is conceptual? Similar to black

 

[Deceived3596]

So do you believe Almighty's powernull is conceptual? Similar to black

Probably. I wouldn't say he is affecting it in a similar why to how Ichibe affects things, he isn't actually disabling or becoming resistance to the names, and by consequence, the abilities that the names empower. It's more so I believe he is able to nullify abilities to a similar degree that Ichibe does, but through different means.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Because he was covered in the Ink of Ichimonj which is type 2? And proceeds to nullify it with The Almighty?

Hmm I don't know... Ichibē's ink isn't Type 2; it's his darkness that is. Besides, the justification for this specifically involves Ichibē's inability to remove Yhwach's The A, even after he had lost his name — his Type 3 concept.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Hmm I don't know... Ichibē's ink isn't Type 2; it's his darkness that is. Besides, the justification for this specifically involves Ichibē's inability to remove Yhwach's The A, even after he had lost his name — his Type 3 concept.

His ink is the darkness? He literally gathers it for ink. All actions of Ichimonji are rated as type 2.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

His ink is the darkness? He literally gathers it for ink. All actions of Ichimonji are rated as type 2.

hmm... ok.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Regarding the regen negation via Aizen. Kubo did answer this question recently.

Q: Aizen suffered quite the injuries in his battle against Yhwach, but was he properly healed before being re-imprisoned? I’m really worried about his body.
Kubo: Aizen’s injuries heal automatically.

This likely supports it since Aizen was not automatically regenerating while engaged in combat with Yhwach. He regenerates sometime after the fight before his imprisonment.

 

[Johner2133451]

Regarding the regen negation via Aizen. Kubo did answer this question recently.

Q: Aizen suffered quite the injuries in his battle against Yhwach, but was he properly healed before being re-imprisoned? I’m really worried about his body.
Kubo: Aizen’s injuries heal automatically.

This likely supports it since Aizen was not automatically regenerating while engaged in combat with Yhwach. He regenerates sometime after the fight before his imprisonment.

What are your thoughts on the powernull? Layered or conceptual (according to Deceived)?

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

This likely supports it since Aizen was not automatically regenerating while engaged in combat with Yhwach. He regenerates sometime after the fight before his imprisonment.

This is by no means valid evidence. You're confusing correlation between two events and mistakenly applying causation — in other words, it's a false cause fallacy.

The fact that Aizen didn’t regenerate immediately doesn’t necessarily imply that Yhwach did anything to him. It’s important to remember that this kind of thing happens all the time in fiction, even with characters who have strong regenerative abilities.

Take Andy from Undead Unluck, for instance. Despite having insane, near-instant regeneration, he doesn’t always heal the moment he’s hit. You can see similar examples in other series too — In Naruto, with characters such as Madara, Obito, Orochimaru, and others. That delay isn’t always because their regeneration was actually suppressed; often, it’s just how things play out in fiction.

Q: Aizen suffered quite the injuries in his battle against Yhwach, but was he properly healed before being re-imprisoned? I’m really worried about his body.
Kubo: Aizen’s injuries heal automatically.

And on top of that, Kubo himself contradicts your reasoning in that very same statement. Unless, of course, you’re going to make another assumption — that Aizen somehow ignored Yhwach’s supposed “regeneration negation” and just decided to start regenerating again anyway

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This is by no means valid evidence. You're confusing correlation between two events and mistakenly applying causation — in other words, it's a false cause fallacy.

The fact that Aizen didn’t regenerate immediately doesn’t necessarily imply that Yhwach did anything to him. It’s important to remember that this kind of thing happens all the time in fiction, even with characters who have strong regenerative abilities.


And on top of that, Kubo himself contradicts your reasoning in that very same statement. Unless, of course, you’re going to make another assumption — that Aizen somehow ignored Yhwach’s supposed “regeneration negation” and just decided to start regenerating again anyway

Aizens regeneration has always been instant? He regenerates while being hit by Mugetsu, he regenerates after Gin uses his cellular destruction thing on him, he regenerates after Dangai Ichigo slashes him, he regenerates after being wounded by hollowfied Bankai Ichigo.

So yeah I'm going to assume the reason he didn't do the exact same thing he did 6 or so other times is because Yhwach did something to him.

A false cause fallacy means confusing correlation with causation without reasonable grounds. But in this case:

• Aizen has proven automatic regeneration.
• He didn’t regenerate during the fight.
• He did regenerate afterward.
• The only new variable was Yhwach.

That’s not a fallacy. That’s a reasonable inference,

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

What are your thoughts on the powernull? Layered or conceptual (according to Deceived)?

I don't know. Yhwach doesn't stop you from using your abilities. It’s just made useless against him.