Genshin Impact upgrade God Tier (STAFF VOTES NEEDED)

[TWILIGHT-OP]

@Reiner04 @Dalesean027 @DarkDragonMedeus
Would any of you be down to check this out?

 

[Giannysmag]

Ok I looked at the Raiden calc again and there is another problem.

so depth = 216px = 216*136.47 = 29477m (bruhhh she so strong)

An island reaching 30 kilometers above sea level is absolutely insane and definately not the case here. Just use the ingame depth of the canyon, I'm sure it's gonna be several orders of magnitude closer to what it actually is

 

[Puppet43]

An island reaching 30 kilometers above sea level is absolutely insane and definately not the case here. Just use the ingame depth of the canyon, I'm sure it's gonna be several orders of magnitude closer to what it actually is

6B, consistent with Venti calc

 

[Furina003]

Ok I looked at the Raiden calc again and there is another problem.



An island reaching 30 kilometers above sea level is absolutely insane and definately not the case here. Just use the ingame depth of the canyon, I'm sure it's gonna be several orders of magnitude closer to what it actually is

there is a size map reduction in genshin, so if you use the size map in the game it is also not accurate, the map reduction is not only line horizontal, but also line vertical. that's what he was looking for

 

[Giannysmag]

there is a size map reduction in genshin, so if you use the size map in the game it is also not accurate, the map reduction is not only line horizontal, but also line vertical. that's what he was looking for

I know why he did it but the result ends up being so absurd that going by the ingame size is gonna give as a more realistic value

 

[Voidnether]

there is a size map reduction in genshin, so if you use the size map in the game it is also not accurate, the map reduction is not only line horizontal, but also line vertical. that's what he was looking for

Vertical one is inflated, horizontal ones are still justifiable because there are statements about it and like when you try to plug in the values cause from like the edge of the world (Inazuma/Natlan) all to mondstadt is just like 7 kilometers long or 10 kilometers long. That's literally the only reason why horizontal ones are justifiable, vertical one is still not justifiable at all even if there's a size reduction on the map

 

[Furina003]

I know why he did it but the result ends up being so absurd that going by the ingame size is gonna give as a more realistic value

As I remember, he has the source coming from ingame, to get the actual vertical size of the map, so I don't think it's a problem.

do you have another way to do the calculation of vertical lines? because if using the size of the map directly, I also clearly disagree because of the reduction in the size of the map.

 

[Giannysmag]

As I remember, he has the source coming from ingame, to get the actual vertical size of the map, so I don't think it's a problem.

do you have another way to do the calculation of vertical lines? because if using the size of the map directly, I also clearly disagree because of the reduction in the size of the map.

The source is for horizontal size (and even then it doesn't directly apply 1:1 to everything on the map since that would make streets and building kilometers wide) there's no reason to assume it's directly proportional to the vertical size too. Unless there is some statement about the in lore height of a mountain or structure the most realistic way of measuring this would just be the in game size

 

[OmniScalator]

Ok I looked at the Raiden calc again and there is another problem.



An island reaching 30 kilometers above sea level is absolutely insane and definately not the case here. Just use the ingame depth of the canyon, I'm sure it's gonna be several orders of magnitude closer to what it actually is

I referenced procedure from venti calc

Mountain there was also about 30km

 

[Furina003]

The source is for horizontal size (and even then it doesn't directly apply 1:1 to everything on the map since that would make streets and building kilometers wide) there's no reason to assume it's directly proportional to the vertical size too. Unless there is some statement about the in lore height of a mountain or structure the most realistic way of measuring this would just be the in game size

It really does have an impact because the vertical is also reduced, if you compare the view from above. 15px get 18km

here a = 15px = (15*1.21)km = 18.15km = 18150m (from (1))

and when calculating the height of the cliff he used this point of view, it uses the same position when doing pixel scaling here, which the viewpoint from above gets 15px = 18km, which means when using the front view angle, it has the same size, which is 18km with the number of pixels being 133px, from here we can use the pixel scaling calculation between 133px and 216px. because the actual distance of 133px is 18150 meters, we can calculate it by:
133px/18150 = 216px / X px
133X = 3920400
X = 3920400/133
X = 29476,69m
so there is nothing wrong with this calculation, because it uses consistent pixel scaling where 15px from the top POV = 133px from the front POV with a real size length of 18.15km, this is the basis for finding the height with the same point so that the pixel scaling is consistent, namely if 133px is 18150m then 216px is 29476 meters. so i think this calculation is correct, because I have checked it myself.

and the problem of buildings and others, it is not the natural geography of the genshin world but it is additional furniture, just like the characters in the game that will get a 1:1 scale

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I referenced procedure from venti calc

Mountain there was also about 30km

thats most likely for pilos peak itself, also iand being 30km tall would also mean island would be covered in ice and snow the more you climb it (unless you pull a one piece ahh planet and make it possible)

 

[OmniScalator]

thats most likely for pilos peak itself, also iand being 30km tall would also mean island would be covered in ice and snow the more you climb it (unless you pull a one piece ahh planet and make it possible)

I said about procedure, the way height was Calculated in that calculation, I calculated depth in same way in this calculation.

 

[Giannysmag]

I referenced procedure from venti calc

Mountain there was also about 30km

Ok but that was calcing the biggest mountain in Teyvat which is a lot easier to stomach being that tall compared to a tiny ass island

It really does have an impact because the vertical is also reduced, if you compare the view from above. 15px get 18km

and when calculating the height of the cliff he used this point of view, it uses the same position when doing pixel scaling here, which the viewpoint from above gets 15px = 18km, which means when using the front view angle, it has the same size, which is 18km with the number of pixels being 133px, from here we can use the pixel scaling calculation between 133px and 216px. because the actual distance of 133px is 18150 meters, we can calculate it by:
133px/18150 = 216px / X px
133X = 3920400
X = 3920400/133
X = 29476,69m
so there is nothing wrong with this calculation, because it uses consistent pixel scaling where 15px from the top POV = 133px from the front POV with a real size length of 18.15km, this is the basis for finding the height with the same point so that the pixel scaling is consistent, namely if 133px is 18150m then 216px is 29476 meters. so i think this calculation is correct, because I have checked it myself.

I know what they did Furina but I'm saying that the end result putting the island nearly 30 kilometers above sea level is obviously wrong and probably means the horizontal and vertical axis of the map are adjusted in different ways

 

[OmniScalator]

Ok but that was calcing the biggest mountain in Teyvat which is a lot easier to stomach being that tall compared to a tiny ass island

Just wanted to ask, this item do mentions mountains being asundered alongside orobaxi, so this island can be mountainous?

Golden Branch of a Distant Sea

Golden Branch of a Distant Sea is a Weapon Ascension Material obtained from Court of Flowing Sand on Monday, Thursday, and Sunday. No recipes use Golden Branch of a Distant Sea as an ingredient. No Characters use Golden Branch of a Distant Sea for ascension. 7 Weapons use Golden Branch of a...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

 

[Giannysmag]

Just wanted to ask, this item do mentions mountains being asundered alongside orobaxi, so this island can be mountainous?

Golden Branch of a Distant Sea

Golden Branch of a Distant Sea is a Weapon Ascension Material obtained from Court of Flowing Sand on Monday, Thursday, and Sunday. No recipes use Golden Branch of a Distant Sea as an ingredient. No Characters use Golden Branch of a Distant Sea for ascension. 7 Weapons use Golden Branch of a...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

Being mountainous =/= 30 kilometers high, that's over three times taller than the tallest IRL mountain.

Like I want you to look at me dead in the eyes and tell me that this small as cliff at the edge 30 km tall

 

[OmniScalator]

Being mountainous =/= 30 kilometers high, that's over three times taller than the tallest IRL mountain.

Like I want you to look at me dead in the eyes and tell me that this small as cliff at the edge 30 km tall

Well it is still farcry from dragonspine being 31km in this venti calc just from land, imagine from sea level.

Venti yeets a Mountain

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Giannysmag]

Well it is still farcry from dragonspine being 31km in this venti calc just from land, imagine from sea level.

Venti yeets a Mountain

vsbattles.fandom.com

I know about the Venti calc and I think that's a problem there too but it's a lot less egregious than this

 

[OmniScalator]

I know about the Venti calc and I think that's a problem there too but it's a lot less egregious than this

Well what do you think about this btw?

Vertical scale of Genshin world according to lore

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Puppet43]

Isnt Fontaine waterfalls stated to be 300 m height?
Why should an island comparable or even smaller be 30 km?
Yeah i know i put some crazy number in Mountain, but the biggest mountain in teyvat is more justificable

 

[PedjaTarzan]

this is not calc discussion thread ro, get this thread over already

 

[Giannysmag]

Well what do you think about this btw?

Vertical scale of Genshin world according to lore

vsbattles.fandom.com

13 times taller makes a lot more intuitive sense but I'm not sure if the clouds there would qualify as high clouds, just based on their shape they look a lot more like cumulus clouds. So use that unless someone can go ingame and wait until a storm starts to see if it's above the storm clouds too

 

[Furina003]

Ok but that was calcing the biggest mountain in Teyvat which is a lot easier to stomach being that tall compared to a tiny ass island

I know what they did Furina but I'm saying that the end result putting the island nearly 30 kilometers above sea level is obviously wrong and probably means the horizontal and vertical axis of the map are adjusted in different ways

Yes, I understand that this sounds like it doesn't make sense, but if we think otherwise. would also be unreasonable. yeah i mean we have 133px is 18150m and when in 216px part for example we only give 100 meters. isn't this also totally unreasonable? How can something that has a larger px size have a smaller actual size than a smaller px size? really confusing, do you have a solution for this?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

13 times taller makes a lot more intuitive sense but I'm not sure if the clouds there would qualify as high clouds, just based on their shape they look a lot more like cumulus clouds. So use that unless someone can go ingame and wait until a storm starts to see if it's above the storm clouds too

i dont think it can rain in tona whatever name it is since its sun is just in one motion not moving (game logic) and when you fall down you go trough actual clouds so i dunno lol

 

[Giannysmag]

i dont think it can rain in tona whatever name it is since its sun is just in one motion not moving (game logic) and when you fall down you go trough actual clouds so i dunno lol

Ah then high cloud height should probably be fine, we just need to get the calc accepted

Yes, I understand that this sounds like it doesn't make sense, but if we think otherwise. would also be unreasonable. yeah i mean we have 133px is 18150m and when in 216px part for example we only give 100 meters. isn't this also totally unreasonable?

No actually, I think 100 meters is far far more reasonable here

How can something that has a larger px size have a smaller actual size than a smaller px size? really confusing, do you have a solution for this?

For now we just use the in game depth, if Omni's other calc gets accepted then we multiply that by 13.47

 

[OmniScalator]

13 times taller makes a lot more intuitive sense but I'm not sure if the clouds there would qualify as high clouds, just based on their shape they look a lot more like cumulus clouds. So use that unless someone can go ingame and wait until a storm starts to see if it's above the storm clouds too

Actually even when it rains below, sky remains clear above tonatiuh

 

[Giannysmag]

Actually even when it rains below, sky remains clear above tonatiuh

Ok then, tho since this is in Natlan you could also probably use the tropical region end from here which is 18 km

 

[Shey]

Ok I looked at the Raiden calc again and there is another problem.



An island reaching 30 kilometers above sea level is absolutely insane and definately not the case here. Just use the ingame depth of the canyon, I'm sure it's gonna be several orders of magnitude closer to what it actually is

Is using the Plasma destruction even valid?
Because though it states Orabashi's Blood was turned to Plasma, it doesn't say anything about the environment itself so why would the formula for calcing the rock change

 

[Giannysmag]

Is using the Plasma destruction even valid?
Because though it states Orabashi's Blood was turned to Plasma, it doesn't say anything about the environment itself so why would the formula for calcing the rock change

Xingqiu

List of human blood components - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Mostly carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, all of them are on higher end of energy needed for ionization.

 

[OmniScalator]

Is using the Plasma destruction even valid?
Because though it states Orabashi's Blood was turned to Plasma, it doesn't say anything about the environment itself so why would the formula for calcing the rock change

Because energy required to convert carbon, hydrogen, oxygen to plasma is on higher end than Si which is most abundant in rocks and also rock contains oxygen too in silicates.

So it is good.

 

[Furina003]

Ah then high cloud height should probably be fine, we just need to get the calc accepted

No actually, I think 100 meters is far far more reasonable here

For now we just use the in game depth, if Omni's other calc gets accepted then we multiply that by 13.47

I know of a statement that there is a cave 500 meters deep underground in the Mualani tribe's place,
and when we enter it is not too deep, I think this can be a reference for the vertical line

 

[Shey]

Because energy required to convert carbon, hydrogen, oxygen to plasma is on higher than Si which is most abundant in rocks and also rock contains oxygen too in silicates.

So it is good.

But this is the energy required for the individual elements, that completely ignores the energy required to change phases to
To ionize it needs to vaporize rock is much denser and has a much higher resistance to vaporizing and ionizing
Blood is mostly Water and requires far less energy to begin phase changing.

Sure the individual elements for blood ionized harder but you're ignoring the composition and state of what is being ionized, hence why I'm skeptical...if someone knowledgeable on the physics involved can clear things up better maybe I'd be more prone to agreeing with the method used

 

[Shey]

To add some more stuff on this so we can move on from this arguement already. Neuvi is stated repeatedly to be a fully fledged Sovereign, with the previous Sovereigns having fought a 40 year war against the Primordial One and the 4 Shades (albeit they lost in the end). The Shades individually have power that surpasses that of any Archon and Istaroth is even refered to as a higher power by Ei. The Sovereigns are also stated to be the the most powerful elemental forces putting them above other elemental Dragons like Dvalin, who has power that rivals the Gods of old and could fight against Durin alongside a prime Barbatos, and Azhdaha who is at the very least comparable to a prime Morax while severely eroded. Kukulkan also says that the Archons are nothing compared to the sky-war, refring to the war between the Dragons and the Heavenly Principles.

Cooked

 

[OmniScalator]

But this is the energy required for the individual elements, that completely ignores the energy required to change phases to
To ionize it needs to vaporize rock is much denser and has a much higher resistance to vaporizing and ionizing
Blood is mostly Water and requires far less energy to begin phase changing.

Sure the individual elements for blood ionized harder but you're ignoring the composition and state of what is being ionized, hence why I'm skeptical...if someone knowledgeable on the physics involved can clear things up better maybe I'd be more prone to agreeing with the method used

Well phase shift energy is somewhere like 3.7 petaton, I should have included it in calc I guess, anyways it still doesn't posit problem for rock being ionized as it is roughly just 12% energy.

 

[Shey]

Well phase shift energy is somewhere like 3.7 petaton, I should have included it in calc I guess, anyways it still doesn't posit problem for rock being ionized as it is roughly just 12% energy.

Essentially I'm saying if the energy required to phase change the blood to plasma ends up lower than that of rock, there won't be a reason to calc for that of rock because there will be no evidence left to support that rock was ionized

 

[Giannysmag]

I know of a statement that there is a cave 500 meters deep underground in the Mualani tribe's place,
and when we enter it is not too deep, I think this can be a reference for the vertical line

I can't eyeball this since they don't show them first entering the cave but I imagine it won't be too far off from Omni's calc

 

[Furina003]

eah anyway, the calculations have been received, I will wait for the staff to evaluate all of this.

 

[Catzlaflame]

Someone summarize arguments/link relevant comments please. Preferably in a manner that someone who doesn’t know the verse would he able to read.

 

[Voidnether]

Someone summarize arguments/link relevant comments please. Preferably in a manner that someone who doesn’t know the verse would he able to read.

4-C is flawed, the scaling that comes from this is also flawed since pretty sure it was discussed in the earlier threads that no one would scale anyways https://vsbattles.com/threads/gensh...ingers-skirk-wanderer-etc.179536/post-7090994

Genshin impact BlackHole feat upgrade?

This is going to be the most controversal upgrade in my life for now (god help me) Hoyoverse games have been eating too good (Hi3 is 1-B and hsr is 4-A and 1-B with aeons) But im going to feed the middle child and this middle child is known as Genshin Impact INTRODUCTION This entire upgrade is...

vsbattles.com

High 6-A is flawed in the calculations given the mountain shown shouldn't be 30 kilometers above sea level (We literally have 30 kilometers stuff only exclusive to Dragonspine which is stated to be the highest mountain) and the plasma stuff given what Musou no Hitotachi does is ionizing Orobashi's blood which shouldn't include the area like the mountain rocks, etc

 

[PedjaTarzan]

4-C is flawed, the scaling that comes from this is also flawed since pretty sure it was discussed in the earlier threads that no one would scale anyways https://vsbattles.com/threads/gensh...ingers-skirk-wanderer-etc.179536/post-7090994

Genshin impact BlackHole feat upgrade?

This is going to be the most controversal upgrade in my life for now (god help me) Hoyoverse games have been eating too good (Hi3 is 1-B and hsr is 4-A and 1-B with aeons) But im going to feed the middle child and this middle child is known as Genshin Impact INTRODUCTION This entire upgrade is...

vsbattles.com

High 6-A is flawed in the calculations given the mountain shown shouldn't be 30 kilometers above sea level (We literally have 30 kilometers stuff only exclusive to Dragonspine which is stated to be the highest mountain) and the plasma stuff given what Musou no Hitotachi does is ionizing Orobashi's blood which shouldn't include the area like the mountain rocks, etc

you linked wrong thread for blackhole (link downgrade one) and for calc method everything except 30km is usable as long as op of calc proves it usable

 

[PedjaTarzan]

OP trying to scale Raiden Shogun to Skirk's 4-C by claiming Skirk and Neuvi are equals while Raiden is above Neuvillette.
Main issue here is that he claims that Raiden is superior than Makoto with Authoirty and Gnosis while the issue here is that authority archon possesses are only part of the actual full elemental authority dragon sovereign possesed.
He actually even brings up the fact Neuvilette got far stronger upon obtaining his authority which completely counters his own argument for claiming Raiden>Neuvilette as the person shes superior is not only featless in combat but also just had part of elemental authority(Makoto) which makes no sense to argue it puts her above someone who is with his full elemental authority while verbatim stated that he can deal with archons and rivals entire human realm.
Lastly the greatest issue here that completely prevents this scaling from happening is the fact skirk's blackhole comes from abyssal energy which currently doesnt fit within UES standards nor that there is any proof of abysal energy being UES as op didnt even bring that up

To add some more stuff on this so we can move on from this arguement already. Neuvi is stated repeatedly to be a fully fledged Sovereign, with the previous Sovereigns having fought a 40 year war against the Primordial One and the 4 Shades (albeit they lost in the end). The Shades individually have power that surpasses that of any Archon and Istaroth is even refered to as a higher power by Ei. The Sovereigns are also stated to be the the most powerful elemental forces putting them above other elemental Dragons like Dvalin, who has power that rivals the Gods of old and could fight against Durin alongside a prime Barbatos, and Azhdaha who is at the very least comparable to a prime Morax while severely eroded. Kukulkan also says that the Archons are nothing compared to the sky-war, refring to the war between the Dragons and the Heavenly Principles.

these are summaries debunking OP arguments