Genshin Impact upgrade God Tier (STAFF VOTES NEEDED)

[Weaver261]

each archon holds 1 authority, neuvillette also 1

No. It's explicitly stated there that archons only got parts of dragon's power which later becomes archons authorities. You can't say dragon's power mentioned there isn't element authority cuz Focalors said she returned the authority. It's further proven here so your neuvillette's story 5 is not valid since it's not explicit enough to claim archons have full element authority like dragon sovereigns

The Pyro Archon triumphed over the Abyss by leveraging rules and legacy — a truly commendable feat. Yet, holding an Authority seized from the dragons remains an unpardonable sin

 

[Rikimarox2]

So... I don't know jack about Genshin, but decided to comment anyways just purely off of the scans.

As long as the calculation are correct, I don't really have a problem with them, as long as there's a UES or smth for the 4-C stuff, as I believe that's creation, no?

However, for the chain scaling, tell me if I understood this correctly but;

Shirk (4-C gal) speaks to Neuvillette as equals.
Neuvillettes gets much stronger via the whole authority stuff.
Ei beat Makoto, who has both Authority and Gnosis, and since Neu also has Authority, that means Ei is... somehow stronger than Neu?

Am I getting this right? If so, what. Do we have any concrete statement that Makoto is equal to Neu, or that Users of Authority are all equal in power, or anything like that? Because you are trying to upgrade characters to 4-C from High 6-A(?), from a chainscaling that doesn't even mention the character who was equal to Shirk. An upgrade of this magnitude, I feel, requires way more feats and statements instead of this vague chainscaling thing. Not to mention, I feel really iffy making Neu equal to Shirk just purely off of a statement that could be interpreted as "respect" rather coming from being in terms of power, but eh.

What I'm saying might seem excessive, but remember that we are upgrading characters like, 2 entire tiers above.

Of course, I could be getting this wrong and there are much more feats (that aren't in the OP, for some reason), but just purely off of the OP, I disagree with upgrading to 4-C.

 

[Furina003]

No. It's explicitly stated there that archons only got parts of dragon's power which later becomes archons authorities. You can't say dragon's power mentioned there isn't element authority cuz Focalors said she returned the authority. It's further proven here so your neuvillette's story 5 is not valid since it's not explicit enough to claim archons have full element authority like dragon sovereigns

Yes, the authority has indeed been returned, because Neuvilette previously had no authority at all, therefore he said he would not be able to do much before the Archon returned his authority.

Before it was restored, Neuvilette had no authority at all, so he said he wouldn't be able to do much until the authority was restored by the archon.

 

[Weaver261]

Yes, the authority has indeed been returned, because Neuvilette previously had no authority at all, therefore he said he would not be able to do much before the Archon returned his authority.

Whether he had the authority or not, he is still stronger than archons cuz part of his power becomes the authority. So, he is still stronger than archons cuz archon's authority is just some parts of his full power.

Why he can't save the situation? Cuz he needed full control over hydro element to give life which is something hydro archons can't do despite having hydro authority.

Neuvillette: However, even though water as an element is intricately linked with the power of life, the Hydro Archon, as one of The Seven, did not possess the authority to create a new form of human life.

But yk what? Neuvillette can becuz he is the elemental dragon.

Paimon: But Paimon still doesn't quite get what you did to save the Fontainians from dissolving.
Neuvillette: For me, the "authority of the ancient dragons" refers to absolute control over the Hydro element.
Neuvillette: Fontainians were "incomplete humans" born of Egeria's use of the power of the Primordial Sea, with constitutions similar to that of mimics...
Neuvillette: But so long as those primordial energies remain within them, I could use the ancient dragons' authority to grant them true "blood," after the fashion in which life was first brought into being on this planet.

Full Dragonhood is the complete authority of hydro element but HP stole some part of Neuvillette's power and give it to hydro archon as hydro authority but it's not the same level as Dragon's full authority since it's only a part of it. By getting the parts back, Neuvillette becomes the fully fledged dragon sovereign once again.

Paimon: Focalors destroyed the divine throne of the Hydro Archon and restored your power to you, transforming you into a fully-fledged elemental dragon sovereign...

Neuvillette: None of the currently living dragon sovereigns in the world, myself included, possess our full dragonhood.
Neuvillette: They say that when the First Usurper arrived on Teyvat, they seized a part of the dragons' power. Today, that stolen power is the basis of the Archons' Authorities.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

we are 3 pages in already, i suggest calling staff to evaluate now as further arguin will turn into circular debate with no conclusion

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Can someone give me a brief summary of what the hell happened here.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Can someone give me a brief summary of what the hell happened here.

OP trying to scale Raiden Shogun to Skirk's 4-C by claiming Skirk and Neuvi are equals while Raiden is above Neuvillette.
Main issue here is that he claims that Raiden is superior than Makoto with Authoirty and Gnosis while the issue here is that authority archon possesses are only part of the actual full elemental authority dragon sovereign possesed.
He actually even brings up the fact Neuvilette got far stronger upon obtaining his authority which completely counters his own argument for claiming Raiden>Neuvilette as the person shes superior is not only featless in combat but also just had part of elemental authority(Makoto) which makes no sense to argue it puts her above someone who is with his full elemental authority while verbatim stated that he can deal with archons and rivals entire human realm.
Lastly the greatest issue here that completely prevents this scaling from happening is the fact skirk's blackhole comes from abyssal energy which currently doesnt fit within UES standards nor that there is any proof of abysal energy being UES as op didnt even bring that up

 

[Voidnether]

Can someone give me a brief summary of what the hell happened here.

Basically what Tarzan said with the addition that anything related to blackholes on Genshin isn't and shouldn't be usable for calcs given we have this thread where DT, Spaceman and Bambu agreed with it. So, unless there's actual evidence being brought against the previous thread. 4-C shouldn't be usable, pair that with DMUA being unsure about the blackhole properties.

Genshin Impact Black Hole Problem

Hello. There is an issue with Skirk and Narwhal's black holes. 1) Narwhal's black hole can be physically destroyed which is impossible stating from this page. And yes its physically because The Traveler uses their sword all the time. 2) Inside the Narhwhal's body there is a black hole held by...

vsbattles.com

 

[Giannysmag]

He actually even brings up the fact Neuvilette got far stronger upon obtaining his authority which completely counters his own argument for claiming Raiden>Neuvilette as the person shes superior is not only featless in combat but also just had part of elemental authority(Makoto) which makes no sense to argue it puts her above someone who is with his full elemental authority while verbatim stated that he can deal with archons and rivals entire human realm.

To add some more stuff on this so we can move on from this arguement already. Neuvi is stated repeatedly to be a fully fledged Sovereign, with the previous Sovereigns having fought a 40 year war against the Primordial One and the 4 Shades (albeit they lost in the end). The Shades individually have power that surpasses that of any Archon and Istaroth is even refered to as a higher power by Ei. The Sovereigns are also stated to be the the most powerful elemental forces putting them above other elemental Dragons like Dvalin, who has power that rivals the Gods of old and could fight against Durin alongside a prime Barbatos, and Azhdaha who is at the very least comparable to a prime Morax while severely eroded. Kukulkan also says that the Archons are nothing compared to the sky-war, refring to the war between the Dragons and the Heavenly Principles.

 

[Puppet43]

What is this?

One of the biggest gaming magazines of japan lmao

Yes, So we have to understand who this word god refers to? Is it just Harvia class?

Who is gonna win "Havria lvl" Authority Neuvi or "Guoba lvl" Shouki no Kami? (great bait ngl)

doesn't prove he's stronger

Do have a lack of reading comprehension? i said EQUALS, COMPARABLE; =

Unknown god was never rly confirmed as a shade outright yet.

Even worst, Unknown God is a fanmade name

Sovereign is a Race

Sovereing is a title granted to the strongest dragons of each element

 

[Puppet43]

To add some more stuff on this so we can move on from this arguement already. Neuvi is stated repeatedly to be a fully fledged Sovereign, with the previous Sovereigns having fought a 40 year war against the Primordial One and the 4 Shades (albeit they lost in the end). The Shades individually have power that surpasses that of any Archon and Istaroth is even refered to as a higher power by Ei. The Sovereigns are also stated to be the the most powerful elemental forces putting them above other elemental Dragons like Dvalin, who has power that rivals the Gods of old and could fight against Durin alongside a prime Barbatos, and Azhdaha who is at the very least comparable to a prime Morax while severely eroded. Kukulkan also says that the Archons are nothing compared to the sky-war, refring to the war between the Dragons and the Heavenly Principles.

Dude, this is overkill

 

[Giannysmag]

Dude, this is overkill

Can't have people slandering my dragon daddy GOAT saying he's below Ei and shi

 

[MSahla]

To add some more stuff on this so we can move on from this arguement already. Neuvi is stated repeatedly to be a fully fledged Sovereign, with the previous Sovereigns having fought a 40 year war against the Primordial One and the 4 Shades (albeit they lost in the end). The Shades individually have power that surpasses that of any Archon and Istaroth is even refered to as a higher power by Ei. The Sovereigns are also stated to be the the most powerful elemental forces putting them above other elemental Dragons like Dvalin, who has power that rivals the Gods of old and could fight against Durin alongside a prime Barbatos, and Azhdaha who is at the very least comparable to a prime Morax while severely eroded. Kukulkan also says that the Archons are nothing compared to the sky-war, refring to the war between the Dragons and the Heavenly Principles.

Plus, Waxaklahun Ubah Kan, who personally fought in the sky-war against The Primordial One and the four shades of Celestia, has made it clear that even the current dragons of today, including himself, would be able to match against The Seven Archons .

So in their Prime, Archons would get cooked so badly.

 

[MSahla]

When you consider that the archon are using the dragon's authority in the first place, the bias is all but warranted and highkey speaks for itself. The dragons fought against the Heavenly Principles whereas the archons are subservient to them. Dragons have ALWAYS been built diff.

And please don't forget Xbalanque's quote on Neuvi's Drip Marketing
"Someday when they return, their true ordeal shall begin"

 

[Voidnether]

Plus, Waxaklahun Ubah Kan, who personally fought in the sky-war against The Primordial One and the four shades of Celestia, has made it clear that even the current dragons of today, including himself, would be able to match against The Seven Archons .

So in their Prime, Archons would get cooked so badly.

Hierarchical scaling goes so hard with this one
(I'm lowkey surprised tho, it should be obvious that the seven sovereigns scale way above archons given they're just a "knockoff" by the Heavenly Principles to replace the seven sovereigns and not to mention Natlan's archon system). Like, unless you have a good justification (outside powerscaling abilities) then who would actually believe that and this includes Nahida & Furina scaling massively above the sovereigns when Nahida struggles with Apep and that same dendro sovereign barely has any authority left lol

This is why I plan to wait for Nod-Krai to release, it's actually good on their part to do this cause there are just so many plotholes with the story that's not being answered yet (And probably the reason why Genshin is dormant, with the only exception of like Furina, Omni or Tarzan)

 

[MSahla]

And if y'all notice, everytime we or someone fought Dragon Sovereigns, the Dragon is always got nerfed or not in their prime.

1. Apep: we're not really fought the real Apep its just like her Guardian.

2. Pyro Dragon mimic by Gosoythoth: Title self-explanatory, its just a mimic of Pyro Dragon and the size of that Pyro Dragon is nothing compared to its real size.

3. Xbalanque vs Xiuhcoatl: Xbalanque should be grateful because Xiuhcoatl at that time had been corroded by the Abyss and Xiuhcoatl created a weakness for himself, if Xiuhcoatl had not created Huitzilopochtli and put the remaining power in his eyes, he couldn't be harmed in any possible way.

Xbalanque already got helped by Ronova and Kukulkan to fought Xiuhcoatl.

So do you understand what that mean? If we fight Prime Dragon Sovereigns, we are ABSOLUTELY COOKED

 

[PedjaTarzan]

you shouldnt spam much as we need staff to read actual argument and evaluate this

 

[Voidnether]

Then do you know what that mean buddy? If we fight against Prime Dragon Sovereigns, WE'RE ABSOLUTELY COOKED.

That would be the bad Ending of Genshin Impact lmao

I mean don't we have phanes and like the 4 shades, and the abyss existing.. Idk about hexenzirkel if they're able to do something remotely useful, or the 5 sinners.. As much as I wanna glaze Fatui being the strongest (Nod-Krai effect probably), genshin god tiers are so cooked man

 

[Voidnether]

you shouldnt spam much as we need staff to read actual argument and evaluate this

True ngl and I kinda regret I wasnt replying to this earlier, it could've been done on the general discussion

 

[InfinityTurtleHD]

May I ask, is Skirk's black hole something she created physically or via hax?

 

[MSahla]

May I ask, is Skirk's black hole something she created physically or via hax?

Hax, its Transmutation.

• Transmutation (Transformed the All-Devouring Narwhall into an energy ball of gravitational force)

 

[AyOgUyS]

Not knowledgeable on the verse but wanna point out that this statement for the raiden calc appears to js be flowery language: https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/w...ves_(Quest)#Dialogue:~:text=Xingqiu: Ahem... "Through%20Qiongji%20I%20walked%20a%20hundred%20miles%2C%20at%20Guili%20I%20ended%20my%20march.%20In%20Dihua%20the%20silvergrass%20grows%20in%20two%20styles%2C%20but%20horsetails%20don't%20trot%20out%20the%20marsh."

 

[Furina003]

Whether he had the authority or not, he is still stronger than archons cuz part of his power becomes the authority. So, he is still stronger than archons cuz archon's authority is just some parts of his full power.

no bro, an archon without authority is stronger than a sovereign without authority,
authority is not the main source of power for the gods, they also have power that comes from themselves and comes from human beliefs, so in terms of hierarchy the archon and sovereign are equal, I have said since the first time I commented that they are equal

Why he can't save the situation? Cuz he needed full control over hydro element to give life which is something hydro archons can't do despite having hydro authority.

But yk what? Neuvillette can becuz he is the elemental dragon.


Full Dragonhood is the complete authority of hydro element but HP stole some part of Neuvillette's power and give it to hydro archon as hydro authority but it's not the same level as Dragon's full authority since it's only a part of it. By getting the parts back, Neuvillette becomes the fully fledged dragon sovereign once again.

to be honest, i want to answer this, but i'll stop here, discussing authority will just be a useless discussion now, because feat skirk has nothing to do with authority, we better talk about something related to OP. someday i'll make a separate crt to make a new scaling between archon and sovereign

 

[MSahla]

to be honest, i want to answer this, but i'll stop here, discussing authority will just be a useless discussion now, because feat skirk has nothing to do with authority, we better talk about something related to OP. someday i'll make a separate crt to make a new scaling between archon and sovereign

Its still on the topic bcs the OP claims "Ei > Neuvillette bcs Ei is stronger than Makoto who had Authority"

 

[InfinityTurtleHD]

Yeah, this doesn't make sense. Makoto was stated to have never been a strong fighter to begin with. Ei was considered a strong archon because she handled affairs relating to combat and warfare. Nothing in the original post states Ei is stronger than Neuvillette.

 

[Furina003]

Its still on the topic bcs the OP claims "Ei > Neuvillette bcs Ei is stronger than Makoto who had Authority"

in my opinion, it is just a waste of time to discuss it.

first this is the creation feat that requires ues and does the skirk at that time use ues? even if it is proven that Ei > neuvillette, this feat cannot be scaled to neuvillette, which will get tier 4c only skirk with the creation feat

second, the discussion of sovereign and archon will require long pages if only discussed like this and make this crt difficult to evaluate by staff, it is better to make a separate crt.

 

[OmniScalator]

in my opinion, it is just a waste of time to discuss it.

first this is the creation feat that requires ues and does the skill at that time use ues? even if it is proven that Ei > neuvillette, this feat cannot be scaled to neuvillette, which will get tier 4c only skirk with the creation feat

second, the discussion of sovereign and archon will require long pages if only discussed like this and make this crt difficult to evaluate by staff, it is better to make a separate crt.

This is not creation feat, skirk compressed narwhal according to what we saw in quest, I think.

 

[Furina003]

This is not creation feat, skirk compressed narwhal according to what we saw in quest, I think.

I'm not sure, maybe this is density manipulation or transmutation. What is clear is that she created a black hole from the narwhal's body by compressing it.

 

[Weaver261]

no bro, an archon without authority is stronger than a sovereign without authority,

I will write down why I disagree with 4-C scaling
1. Archons' elemental authorities comes from parts of Elemental Dragon Sovereigns. Dragon Soveregins thus lost the absolute control over their own elements. But that doesn't mean Archons > Dragon soveregins cuz Archons only have parts of Dragons' power. For example, Hydro Archons couldn't create life despite having Neuvillete's authority when Neuvillete could. If Hydro Archons are as capable as Neuvillete, the whole fontaine prophecy wouldn't even exist.

2. Makoto was never a figher to being with. Also it was also never stated once that Ei is stronger than Makoto who is using gnosis and archon authority at full force. Just having both in possession without having the ability to ultize it to its full extent won't valid here. You have to prove in power wise, Ei is stronger explictly when Makoto with all of her power.

3. Whether Archon's base power + authority + gnosis > Dragon Sovereigns is also not confirmed. There was never a single matchup between them. This kind of vague assumption shouldn't be used in the first place for such a huge tier jump.

With these reasons and others' disagree reasons from other people combined, I hard disagree for 4-C

 

[OmniScalator]

• My second issue is the assumption that Raiden turned the rocks into plasma. The statement about Orobashi specifically says that it was his ichor which turned into plasma, which would be his blood. Now admitedly I am not an expert on thermodynamics, infact I kinda sucked at it while doing physics in both school and uni but I'd imagine it's easier to turn a liquid plasma than a solid, so I don't think this statement alone indicates the rocks got turned into plasma.

Ionization energy of carbon is actually higher than elements found in rocks, so it is safe for this calc.

 

[Giannysmag]

Ionization energy of carbon is actually higher than elements found in rocks, so it is safe for this calc.

Isn't blood plasma mainly water tho? What's the ionization energy of Hydrogen and Oxygen?

 

[OmniScalator]

Isn't blood plasma mainly water tho?

It is plasma as in "4th state of matter" and not blood plasma which is whole other things and don't even need energy as blood already consists plasma.

It is backed by CN

 

[Giannysmag]

It is plasma as in "4th state of matter" and not blood plasma which is whole other things and don't even need energy as blood already consists plasma.

It is backed by CN

I know what you meant. I was asking what compounds make up liquid blood (blood plasma) since you mentioned carbon

 

[OmniScalator]

I know what you meant. I was asking what compounds make up liquid blood (e.i. blood plasma) since you mentioned carbon

Components of plasma are ionized gases.

And energy required by carbon to get ionized is on one of the higher end, I brought this up because living beings are mostly made up of carbon and if it had enough energy to ionize carbon it can also ionize elements which require less energy to get ionized.

 

[Giannysmag]

Components of plasma are ionized gases.

I know, I mean the components of blood

And energy required by carbon to get ionized is on one of the higher end, I brought this up because living beings are mostly made up of carbon and if it had enough energy to ionize carbon it can also ionize elements which require less energy to get ionized.

It wasn't Orobashi's whole body that was turned to plasma, but his blood. Which is why I'm asking what elements make up blood and if they have a higher ionisation energy than Si and Oxygen

 

[OmniScalator]

I know, I mean the components of blood

It wasn't Orobashi's whole body that was turned to plasma, but his blood. Which is why I'm asking what elements make up blood and if they have a higher ionisation energy than Si and Oxygen

List of human blood components - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Mostly carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, all of them are on higher end of energy needed for ionization.

 

[Giannysmag]

List of human blood components - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Mostly carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, all of them are on higher end of energy needed for ionization.

Aight then I agree with High 6-A Musou no Hitotachi unless we can find a better measurement for the in lore map size

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

OP trying to scale Raiden Shogun to Skirk's 4-C by claiming Skirk and Neuvi are equals while Raiden is above Neuvillette.
Main issue here is that he claims that Raiden is superior than Makoto with Authoirty and Gnosis while the issue here is that authority archon possesses are only part of the actual full elemental authority dragon sovereign possesed.
He actually even brings up the fact Neuvilette got far stronger upon obtaining his authority which completely counters his own argument for claiming Raiden>Neuvilette as the person shes superior is not only featless in combat but also just had part of elemental authority(Makoto) which makes no sense to argue it puts her above someone who is with his full elemental authority while verbatim stated that he can deal with archons and rivals entire human realm.
Lastly the greatest issue here that completely prevents this scaling from happening is the fact skirk's blackhole comes from abyssal energy which currently doesnt fit within UES standards nor that there is any proof of abysal energy being UES as op didnt even bring that up

To add some more stuff on this so we can move on from this arguement already. Neuvi is stated repeatedly to be a fully fledged Sovereign, with the previous Sovereigns having fought a 40 year war against the Primordial One and the 4 Shades (albeit they lost in the end). The Shades individually have power that surpasses that of any Archon and Istaroth is even refered to as a higher power by Ei. The Sovereigns are also stated to be the the most powerful elemental forces putting them above other elemental Dragons like Dvalin, who has power that rivals the Gods of old and could fight against Durin alongside a prime Barbatos, and Azhdaha who is at the very least comparable to a prime Morax while severely eroded. Kukulkan also says that the Archons are nothing compared to the sky-war, refring to the war between the Dragons and the Heavenly Principles.

I don't have a strong opinion at the moment, but after reading this, I'm leaning toward disagreeing with the Op.

 

[OmniScalator]

I don't have a strong opinion at the moment, but after reading this, I'm leaning toward disagreeing with the Op.

On everything or just chainscaling to skirk?

 

[Puppet43]

including himself, would be able to match against The Seven Archons .

Nah, i dont he himself doing anything. I could think he was in the Celestial war participating but as a strategist or creating machines