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Ben 10: Cosmology additions and replacement

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Firestorm808 said:
  1. I still don't see how hyperspace (which is used in the series to travel across the same 3-D space) is related to dimensional travel (traveling from one timeline to another)
  2. Yes, they are seeing the "Universe" be erased, leaving the Black Space Beyond. This just means that the small hole of erasure would show a small part of the Space Beyond. The hole and erasure grow, revealing more and more of the space beyond. I don't see how the Space Beyond as a whole can be interpreted as "small" in this scene.
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Firestorm808 said:
What is left to discuss?
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These were the last 2 remaining arguments. The original argument was that from the CP debate realm the verse was seen as projection of some kind. Which I believe was meant to refer to this scene.
 
Firestorm808 said:
They can show Ben stuff going on outside, yes. But I don't see anything suggesting a qualitative difference via projection.
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Firestorm808 said:
  1. Each timeline features a hyperspace that allows certain characters, like Jetray, Verdona, Rook's rustbucket and the Highbreed spaceships, to travel intergalactic distances in a short amount of time. It can be accessed by creating rifts in space time or via FTL travel.
    1. This is fine.
  2. (just like how Caesar did when he sent Alpha to the Null Void)
    1. There is no mention of hyperspace here.
  3. A unique property of the timelines is that they exist as both cylindrical, tree-like branches and disc shaped, depending on the perspective. Which is even explained by Professor paradox in both the ways (tree like, disc).
    1. How you see them depends on what higher dimension you are on.
  4. The Timestream represents the spatio-temporal perspective of the timelines, as one can travel in both space and time. This is demonstrated when Ben and Rook travel from present day outer space, to past in the year 1773, somewhere on the earth.
    1. Fine.
  5. In contrast, the disc perspective represents the spatial perspective of timelines, enabling travel through space, such as hyperspace travel.
    1. I don't follow how hyperspace is related here.
  6. The true forms of Celestialsapiens like Alien X exist as abstract manifestations of love and rage.
    1. Fine
  7. Celestialsapiens transcend the very plane where existence lies
    1. Fine.
  8. and perceive the space beyond as a mere projection.
    1. Where do you get the "perceived as just a projection" interpretation from?
  9. Their true selves control their respective celestial avatars to interact with the verse
    1. Fine
  10. and alter its continuity, such as retconning the art style on at least three occasions,
    1. This is one of their capabilities, yes.
  11. one of which must have involved changing their homeworld from Zvezda to Forge of Creation.
    1. I wouldn't use this because the first name was never published in the show before getting retconned.
  12. The Forge is described as the source of the verse's greatest power and a birthplace of Celestialsapiens like Alien X.
    1. Fine.
  13. It predates the verse and serves as the origin
    1. The origin of the "ANLG Universe Structure" was established to be from the ANLG, no?
  14. as well as the center
    1. I would say metaphorical. It's currently agreed that the FOC is located outside the ANLG Universe Structure.
  15. responsible for creating the space beyond.
    1. Where did this interpretation come from?
  16. The Forge is noted to be beyond comprehension for the trio which includes Ben, who has an innate sense of transtemporal metaphysics.
    1. Eh, it's more figurative than I would like to use as justification.
  17. Additionally, the statement that the Forge of Creation is out of sync with all time underscores its existence beyond the linear and non-linear constraints of time and the hypertime.
    1. Fine
  18. The Forge was originally accessible from the space beyond but Professor paradox hid it by erecting a chronal randomization barrier from everyone except the inhabitants of Forge, himself and weilders of the Map of infinity to avoid the misuse of greatest power in the verse.
    1. Fine.
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Firestorm808 said:
  1. Alpha created rifts by what I assume to be tech similar to Null Void Guns. Alpha was sent to the Null void and presumably met Ben after using the Tech. The Null Void Tech was used again to rex Rex's world. However, he does not create them wherever he goes. He leaves behind nanites. I do not see how this has anything to do with Hyperspace. Hyperspace has not been shown to connect between different space-time dimensions.
  2. That supposed speck was the starting point of the erasure of "The universe." This is not the Space Beyond. As you see, the purple erasure grows bigger as it erases the ANLG Universe. "The Universe" as a whole isn't a spexk in this scene.
  3. I am fine with making additions to the Terminology sections in the cosmology page. Note the specific episodes where the term "Universe" means differently based on the plot context.
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If these are you're final thoughts on the matter then I believe everything has been discussed unless there are any final thoughts from the OP?
 
Firestorm808 said:
  1. I still don't see how hyperspace (which is used in the series to travel across the same 3-D space) is related to dimensional travel (traveling from one timeline to another)
Click to expand...
No, the hyperspace is limited to a timeline. It allows dimensional travel within the dimensions of a singular timeline.
Firestorm808 said:
  1. Yes, they are seeing the "Universe" be erased, leaving the Black Space Beyond. This just means that the small hole of erasure would show a small part of the Space Beyond. The hole and erasure grow, revealing more and more of the space beyond. I don't see how the Space Beyond as a whole can be interpreted as "small" in this scene.
Click to expand...
By the time they were discussing, the entire Universe was erased and we see the speck growing bigger and bigger but still not covering the size of the debate void. Which would also fit well with them having "transcended our very plane of existence" i.e. the Annihilarrgh Multiverse where the physical existence is supposed to reside.
 
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Hellformer said:
The use of hyperspace has been shown to be limited by dimensions within the timeline so I'd say it is defined as a collection of many
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Are you suggesting that the same "hyperspace" can be accessed by different dimensions in the same timeline? IE: Can someone from Rex's dimension access the same hyperspace that Ben used as Jetray?
 
Firestorm808 said:
My previous inputs remain the same.
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You haven't replied regarding the space beyond being a mere speck for debate void.
So should I count you as agreeing for that?

Then you'd technically agree with everything except hyperspace containing the infinite dimensions.
 
Hellformer said:
You haven't replied regarding the space beyond being a mere speck for debate void.
So should I count you as agreeing for that?

Then you'd technically agree with everything except hyperspace containing the infinite dimensions.
Click to expand...
Per my previous posts, I disagree that the ANLG Universe or the Space Beyond as a whole is depicted as a speck from the POV in Alien X.

Feel free to talk to other staff on the matter.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Per my previous posts, I disagree that the ANLG Universe or the Space Beyond as a whole is depicted as a speck from the POV in Alien X.

Feel free to talk to other staff on the matter.
Click to expand...
Can you please tag other staff member?
 
Hellformer said:
What about zvezda's canonicity? It existed as per guides and games before getting eventually retconned
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I recall a WOG regarding it existing inside forge of creation, though, I don't have time to like, go and look for it for anytime soon. Anyways, firestorm point holds true if we don't use that WOG.
 
Reiner04 said:
I recall a WOG regarding it existing inside forge of creation, though, I don't have time to like, go and look for it for anytime soon. Anyways, firestorm point holds true if we don't use that WOG.
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Why does that even matter when the canon material i.e. guides and games state that it existed? I cannot understand whats the problem with that.
 
Hellformer said:
Why does that even matter when the canon material i.e. guides and games state that it existed? I cannot understand whats the problem with that.
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Just to clarify, what is the point of including "zvezda" if we already have examples of CSPs "causing" existing retcons within the show?
 
Firestorm808 said:
If that's the case, then we can just make a note about it being "possibly done" due to the lack of supporting canonicity to the show.
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I'm fine with that. So can the changes be made since everything has been accepted except for few things?
Also how many votes do I need? Even though it doesn't upgrade the verse but the revision still revolves around tier 1 cosmology.
 
Firestorm808 said:
The stuff I accepted can be applied.
Click to expand...
Could you pls unlock the cosmology page?
vsbattles.fandom.com

Ben 10 Cosmology

This page will cover Ben 10 Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Ben 10 series, Novels, and Other verified information from secondary sources that are supported by the show. It will go over the Each Term and what each term mean and their supposed Inconsistencies...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
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