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"Something Other Than a Ghoul" - Tokyo Ghoul vs Chainsaw Man
- Thread starter Arkenis
- Start date
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Pochita's image bugged btw (at least on my side). Anyways, Pochita stomps tbh, I don't see why not. Also Part what Pochita? You forgot the number.
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sureeeeee. Part 1 Pochita might be a debate, but Part 2 straightup stomps due to the stupidly high AP difference, Arima ain't blocking Pochita and ain't hurting him either.
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SUREEEEEEEE. Anyways, despite Arima regen negation, I don't think Pochita's immortality as well as his stupidly high regen cares (unless I'm wrong). This is part 1 Pochita who can casually throw his heart out to regen again, Poisoned? He just throw hearts out and regen from scratch before the poison even reach him.
I think I'll vote for Pochita, he has a possibly H7-C rating to balance things out.
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Well, biologically Devils and Ghouls are completely different from each other so that's that. Anyways I don't think Arima has any answer to Pochita's immortality and regen, Pochita ain't lacking in combat skills either and has better way to maneuver than Arima, so let me ask this real quick, iirc Investigators in Tokyo Ghouls are still humans right? Surely Arima himself wouldn't scale to his weapon, and obviously he does not have regen. So while Arima has to tire Pochita's insane stamina out, one hit from Pochita might be the end of the fight.
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Pochita and Arima go at each other, immediately, the scene cuts to another character fighting someone else somewhere else.
Then, when it returns to Arima vs Pochita, Pochita is already defeated as an unscratched Arima holds his impaled heart with IXA as he calls someone on the phone with a deadpan face to announce he completed the job.
Then, when it returns to Arima vs Pochita, Pochita is already defeated as an unscratched Arima holds his impaled heart with IXA as he calls someone on the phone with a deadpan face to announce he completed the job.
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Not the offscreen Haki, how is Pochita supposed to deal with that?!?!
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,347
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- #12
No Arima is also town+. And I have a question about Pochita's stamina; we're shown losing fear makes him weaker and it also drops his stamina. I'd think Arima being stronger and also more skilled, Pochita would be seen as weak by civilians and the fight would likely be broadcasted to the whole world so wouldn't Pochita start to become weaker as the fight goes on?
While its on page, its also in reference to his past self and we know part 1 Pochita is weaker going off Makima's word.
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DrGreyman
They/Them- 1,145
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easy, pochita is the GOAT of csm and is contractually obligated to no diff someone whenever he pops up to remind the audience that he is in fact a threat
Arima gets hit with the worf effect and suddenly becomes a coughing baby
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Why would it be broadcasted? And even more than that, who tf is the cameraman bro? Ain't no one broadcasting that and coming out alive. Also I know Arima scales to town+, but since I haven't read the manga, I'm not sure if he has ever tanked an attack on that level by his body alone and not blocking using his Quinque.
I don't see why he'd be weaker judging from that line alone, he's near Death in his dog form in the beginning of Part 1, you could argue he'd not fully at his prime, but not to the point that he wouldn't be able to fight 100% Gun Devil. His prime form fought a Prime Yoru that has nuclear weapon devil as well as tons of other weapon devils in their prime (I imagine WW2 and stuff must be around that time since Nuke exists), prime Famine (iykyk) and prime Makima (all because of war), maybe even Death-chan, but idk if she's seriously fighting or not, but anyways that would lore-wise scales him way past Large Town level (that scales him only off of 100% Gun Devil) given what Yoru could do now with Gun Goddess.
I think the best way to do this is to balance things out, but that doesn't matter since my question is whether Arima's dura physically scales to Town+ or not, since he's not throwing bare hands but fighting with his Quinque. Pochita has incredible piercing power so pure human flesh wouldn't say much, unless Arima has Ghoul flesh of some sort since those are resistant to slash damage.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,347
- 13,100
- Thread starter
- #15
Broadcasted because its two random supernatural beings fighting in Central park and likely all over nyc, it'd hit the news across the world within minutes. It's a very common trope in fiction that news channels send out cameraman in helicopters to broadcast fights all the time, shouldn't really be outside of the realm here. Shit even in real life we have people that broadcast active war zones or news channels will send helicopters to get live speed chases.
I just assumed part 1 was him still recovering. But yeah I guess he should be fine when he fights the weapon devils.
Fighting with the quinque would still require him applying force and withstanding the force of ghouls to wield the weapon properly. Also Arima's half ghoul just like Kaneki or the Quinx.
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Tbh, a weird handicap for Pochita given that he was outstats enough already, so tbh no as we're using SBA. And even more than that, why would Pochita be less feared when fighting Arima? People would shit themselves knowing a monster that can destroy city blocks are rampaging, and it's even matching the strongest Ghoul hunter, if anything Pochita would get stronger.
You can hold a piledriver and break walls, doesn't mean you're as strong as the piledriver though. And Arima also has Danmaku and piercing attacks (from what I've seen) so that's that, no reason to apply his physicals to his Quinque.
So he'd have a physique of a Ghoul like Kaneki then, got it. But would be nowhere near close to a Kagune/Quinque unless there is a panel proven so.
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Pochita's 25 kilotons to 128 kilotons while Arima scales to 88 kilotons.
That's barely a 1.4x times strength advantage which would be rendered useless when Arima straight up folds Pochita in CQC. Sadly Arima lacks a way to kill Pochita (unless we equalize the quinque poison to allow it to work on Pochita) so his only option is to overwhelm Pochita and cut him to pieces to the point he won't be able to regenerate, granted that would only happen if we use the 25 kilotons end since that gives Arima a 3.5x strength advantage.
Let's also keep in mind how Arima can play both long and close range thanks to owl and narukami while Pochita (afaik) can only properly fight in close quarters.
IDK how much we use part 2 but during the aging devil fight Pochita ran out of energy to regenerate multiple times and it was only because Denji kept eating stuff that Pochita could keep going, if we use that then the moment Arima cuts Pochita into pieces the fight is over.
That's barely a 1.4x times strength advantage which would be rendered useless when Arima straight up folds Pochita in CQC. Sadly Arima lacks a way to kill Pochita (unless we equalize the quinque poison to allow it to work on Pochita) so his only option is to overwhelm Pochita and cut him to pieces to the point he won't be able to regenerate, granted that would only happen if we use the 25 kilotons end since that gives Arima a 3.5x strength advantage.
Let's also keep in mind how Arima can play both long and close range thanks to owl and narukami while Pochita (afaik) can only properly fight in close quarters.
IDK how much we use part 2 but during the aging devil fight Pochita ran out of energy to regenerate multiple times and it was only because Denji kept eating stuff that Pochita could keep going, if we use that then the moment Arima cuts Pochita into pieces the fight is over.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,347
- 13,100
- Thread starter
- #18
Eh, I think after a couple minutes everyone's gonna see Arima dominating him across Manhattan and Queens. Like sure he'll be scary but they're gonna see their white haired uber human being even more scary.
A piledriver is different from a sword or lance, one is powered by electricity and just requires you holding it in place as it repeatedly hits the ground, a sword and lance require you to be strong to do damage to whatever you're hitting, otherwise you're gonna feel that force come back at you. And the page says town+ durability, doesn't say its with quinques don't know why you're arguing as if its vague.
Yeah idk why Pochita has "eons" of fighting in his stamina section, its pretty clear its only possible if he has blood to recover from.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,347
- 13,100
- Thread starter
- #19
Besides the stamina stuff and ap, Arima's definitely got the skill to overwhelm Pochita here and end up with his heart in hand, body chopped up across times square. Only issue is Pochita's maneuverability is gonna be an issue if he figures close combat isn't gonna work.
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Per SBA, wouldn't the possibility rating be used here? If so Pochita has a slight AP Advantage.
I'm leaning towards Pochita for now due to superior AP, Stamina, Maneuverability, Regen. The only advantage Arima seems to hold is skill, though I haven't read tokyo ghoul so idk, waiting for arguments for Arima's side
It doesn't really matter who's winning, they are two beings beyond what any human has seen, they will both be feared. Idk how the wiki treats it in matches but if we count in the fear factor Pochita will slowly get stronger over the match.
I'm leaning towards Pochita for now due to superior AP, Stamina, Maneuverability, Regen. The only advantage Arima seems to hold is skill, though I haven't read tokyo ghoul so idk, waiting for arguments for Arima's side
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Arima has skills to overwhelm Pochita, that's the only thing I think matters the most here. I'm not leaning towards Arima physically tanking Pochita's slashing attack that never failed to completely butcher anything in it's way (because I went through the Tokyo Ghoul page again and yeah, no mentioning of Arima tanking any attacks with his bare body, let alone slashing/piercing attacks). All the weapons I saw that Arima has all have either Danmaku (which his physicals has nothing to do with) or piercing/slashing attacks, and even more than that, the 7-C+ feat is from that one Kaneki causing earthquake scene, while no scans of Arima fighting something on that level again, just "matches Kaneki with his Quinque" or "defeated Eto". Again I'm not a manga reader, so I'm just feeling iffy about it, I'm just saying that scaling his pure physical dura to his Quinque's performance is weird, and we're talking about piercing attack and slashing attack even, it's gonna play out much differently (cause iirc Arima could casually slash his own throat using his own Quinque, so he's weak to slashing attack). And it seems like they only scales Arima dura due to his 7-C+ AP, which makes it clear that Arima has not really tanked anything on that level using his body alone, just pure powerscaling shenanigans. I'm gonna say that his Quinque would naturally scale there though, just not his body.
Anyways as I said, Arima has skills, so it'd be interesting to say that Arima has to defend against Pochita's chainsaws with his skills rather than just saying "he tanks anyways because he scales higher" when we're lacking the scans for him to say so.
Anyways, due to fear scaling factor, regen as well as immortality, I'm still leaning more to Pochita.
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I think Pochita will have more advantages than Arima, he has regen, has superior a.p, stamina, more importantly, he can also use Arima's blood to recover. I'm also concerned about whether Arima is capable enough to completely destroy Pochita because Pochita has Immo4
My vote goes to Pochita
My vote goes to Pochita
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Going with Pochita FRA
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Yeah, no. Pochita only advantage is literally the higher AP (if we use that end).
He won't be even able to touch Arima, let alone making him bleed. His maneuverability is pretty much useless when IXA can control the battlefield to not only prevent Pochita from running away but to keep things very close and intimate. Narukami also has lightning bolts that IIRC home on the target and can also be spammed for AoE control further leaving Pochita without much options.
His regeneration isn't much of a factor given Arima fights Ghouls on a daily basis (although their regen is lower than Pochita's they still have it and yet Arima folds them the same). Arima just needs to keep slashing and cutting and mutilating until Pochita can't regenerate anymore or until his heart is exposed and destroyed.
Stamina definitively doesn't go to Pochita, after a few times getting mutilated and losing limbs Pochita won't be able to regenerate without blood or without someone pulling the cord and Arima, being the combat and tactical genius that he is, won't be doing it even as a mistake. Arima meanwhile literally fought hordes of Ghouls at the end of part 1 without breaking a sweat, bodied Kaneki then fought Eto without breaking a sweat. This fight will end much, much earlier than his own stamina.
He won't be even able to touch Arima, let alone making him bleed. His maneuverability is pretty much useless when IXA can control the battlefield to not only prevent Pochita from running away but to keep things very close and intimate. Narukami also has lightning bolts that IIRC home on the target and can also be spammed for AoE control further leaving Pochita without much options.
His regeneration isn't much of a factor given Arima fights Ghouls on a daily basis (although their regen is lower than Pochita's they still have it and yet Arima folds them the same). Arima just needs to keep slashing and cutting and mutilating until Pochita can't regenerate anymore or until his heart is exposed and destroyed.
Stamina definitively doesn't go to Pochita, after a few times getting mutilated and losing limbs Pochita won't be able to regenerate without blood or without someone pulling the cord and Arima, being the combat and tactical genius that he is, won't be doing it even as a mistake. Arima meanwhile literally fought hordes of Ghouls at the end of part 1 without breaking a sweat, bodied Kaneki then fought Eto without breaking a sweat. This fight will end much, much earlier than his own stamina.
MintyBoi1
He/Him- 5,660
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How likely is it Pochita is able to make Arima bleed? He was able to completely outclass Kaneki who was highly skilled in martial arts and with his Kagune in the first part and heavily challenge a more skilled version of him. Pochita may have experience, but I’m not sure if that’ll be enough. As long as Arima cuts him enough and avoids hits, he’ll run out of blood eventually.
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With speed being equalized Pochita has zero chance. Arima is used to dealing with Ghouls, beings that can spawn anywhere from 1 to 6 extra appendages quite easily. Even Kaneki in cochlea, who made a net of kakuja kagune in order to trap and defeat Arima, couldn't touch him. Others like the owls can just spam dozens upon dozens of projectiles and yet Arima was untouched.
Arkansalter2
He/Him- 8,243
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Doesn't Pochita have more AP than Arima?
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,347
- 13,100
- Thread starter
- #29
I don't think Pochita has superior stamina, certainly hasn't been shown within a fight as of now and from what we know he needs blood to keep recovering. It does matter who's winning, we know that people's perception of csm changes his power and with him protecting and saving everyone they became less scared of him and that ate away at the devils' fear of him. Arima being more skilled will make his fear diminish as everyone starts to see he's losing. Regen's dependent on getting more blood which will be hard given Arima's gonna be near untouchable.
And besides that Arima's capable of analyzing hundreds of ways to injure Pochita, can launch surprise attacks with Ixa's tentacles or Owl's spikes. This fight would end up with Pochita losing due to being endlessly stabbed and cut apart unable to effectively making his regeneration pointless till he ends up suffering from fatigue and being weakened by the loss of fear.
If you take the possibly rating yes and its only a slight higher than Arima's. I will grant given the higher ap, Pochita's attacks after several should weaken most his quinques as we see even Kaneki's attacks were enough to crack Ixa and break Owl.
Ultimately Arima wins through skill and actually being able to land more attacks and do so flawlessly while Pochita's best bet is having to break the quinques and somehow landing hits on Arima to kill him.
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The same scan of Arima casually slashing himself with his Quinque is already enough proof, I don't need a whole crt for something so obvious. Arima clearly isn't durable enough even for his own normal and most casual act of self harm using Quinque, and this is a fact.
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You got the point! Omg it took quite some yapping. Anyways that is the point, Arima CAN'T tank Pochita like how omniman tanks a peasants fist, he ain't built like that. If his body's dura actually scales to his Quinque, it'd be the same as that time Kakine tried to use a knife to hurt himself and the knife broke, and Arima ain't even putting force into that, a clean cut from what I see.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,347
- 13,100
- Thread starter
- #33
So when force fits your argument you bring it up and acknowledge it but when I explain to you that cutting through objects that are durable requires you yourself to be strong, you act like you don't understand physics. Please explain how Arima isn't harmed by his swings when he cuts through the Ghouls Kagunes and their bodies. Please explain how Arima can push back against Ghouls kagunes if they are physically stronger than him.
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... Have you ever heard of this really fascinating thing called... Hear this: "PIERCING ATTACK". "Man why can I easily cut this piece of wood with a sharp knife but not with my fingernails?" Because of Piercing power, plus the hardness iirc, cause normal knife can't do anything against a ghoul but a Quinque can.
Basically, what I'm talking about here is even if Arima has physical strength, he could still easily be hurt by a piercing attack, fun fact, with a sharp kitchen knife, I could easily hurt Denji who scales to building level if I stab him in the flesh (mind blowing). A sword might be less efficient but you get my point, a 3x difference in scaling doesn't help Arima against a good piercing and slashing attack.
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Arkenis
They/Them- 25,347
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- Thread starter
- #36
Cutting and piercing are different things. And piercing still requires you yourself put force behind the weapon. I shouldn't have to explain how piercing a town level person is gonna require far more energy to do, right?
You would need enough force behind the knife to do that, considering Denji's building level, you wouldn't be able to do it.
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Wait... What did I wrote there again? Man, I need to go wash my face real quick wth.Buddy does NOT want to go to Tokyo. He ain't ready to run Shadow's fade yet.
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And "far more" isn't gonna be enough of a reason, a 3x difference is already sufficient given that Arima need to put not much force into his hand to slash himself. Reminder that the Town+ calc is from some huge burst of energy, simply saying that "Oh damn Arima's simple hand motion now scales to Town+!" is stupid, if it's his attacks then that's Town+, but as I was saying, he ain't even trying here, because his Quinque is hard and sharp enough to easily slash open his throat.
Wrong. Do you know where that "building level" scales from? From the fact that he can tank such attack with his WHOLE BODY. Have ever heard of pressure? Pressure is why Yorozu is H3A, that's the thing. With a sharp kitchen knife, hurting Denji's flesh is possible (but not his Chainsaws which are made out of metals).
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